FYI: Cerb Hulk Beris - Hunting log

atomicstorm · Jul 13, 2017

Sub-Zero said:
Great, now make stackables worth MU again 105-110% or more, and we can have some fun. Already muscle oil doing great.

The game should never allow anyone to reach TT profit over longterm. MU should always push it to the 100%+ or more. Rewarding in-game knowledge and skills/gear in the end.

Truthfully shouldnt be that different than mining and how it works. But it will take time for markup to get to a point where it is worth something again. Oversupply will always be a problem with hunting.

Also... migration, othet than elms and esis, was never a spot for markup.

All the amount of peds people spent on gear like hulk has was a major risk they chose to accept. It has always been absurd to me to spend this kind of money on an asset that is solely beneficial until everyone has the same stuff.

atomicstorm · Jul 13, 2017

The Jetman said:
i'm sure players can still profit through smart play, instead of throwing $10k at the game and just blindly shoot.

plus as the game seems more cost friendly, it should bring more player retention

Sure... that is how the other professions work.

They did say they were rewarding knowledge....

Rocket192 · Jul 13, 2017

Sub-Zero said:
Great, now make stackables worth MU again 105-110% or more, and we can have some fun. Already muscle oil doing great.

The game should never allow anyone to reach TT profit over longterm. MU should always push it to the 100%+ or more. Rewarding in-game knowledge and skills/gear in the end.

Me thinks this is the idea behind the recent changes and the changes to come... UL gun owners should be happy at least.

loot 2.0 = starvation of L guns in loot... which is a damn good thing. No longer is hunting completely devoid of miners and crafters.. this is what things were so good in 2006-2008.. 180% animal hides and 145% muscle oil anyone? yes please.

Now it'll never quite be like that again... but markups must improve for loot 2.0 to work without players quitting.

Like atomic said.. this is how mining has always worked, and I do well in EU... MA still takes their fat rake of decay from me, crafters craft me amps, I buy them, they profit, I profit, we all win if our returns are covered by markup. What we get in turn is hyperinflation, hence 145% oils and 180% hides.

EP4 still throws a wrench in this, but so long as hunters and miners have no alternatives other than to use crafted stuff (save for UL owners) we all will win and MA wlll win too...

This "reduce the cost to play campaign" run by the previous CEO was a fucking economic disaster and that's why hunters are fighting for 101%.

Mathilda · Jul 13, 2017

Sub-Zero said:
Great, now make stackables worth MU again 105-110% or more, and we can have some fun. Already muscle oil doing great.

The game should never allow anyone to reach TT profit over longterm. MU should always push it to the 100%+ or more. Rewarding in-game knowledge and skills/gear in the end.

that would be cool if i now wasnt boxed in to only 5 mobs i can get "optimal loot" from

krogfan · Jul 13, 2017

Rocket192 said:
Me thinks this is the idea behind the recent changes and the changes to come... UL gun owners should be happy at least.

loot 2.0 = starvation of L guns in loot... which is a damn good thing. No longer is hunting completely devoid of miners and crafters.. this is what things were so good in 2006-2008.. 180% animal hides and 145% muscle oil anyone? yes please.

Now it'll never quite be like that again... but markups must improve for loot 2.0 to work without players quitting.

Like atomic said.. this is how mining has always worked, and I do well in EU... MA still takes their fat rake of decay from me, crafters craft me amps, I buy them, they profit, I profit, we all win if our returns are covered by markup. What we get in turn is hyperinflation, hence 145% oils and 180% hides.

EP4 still throws a wrench in this, but so long as hunters and miners have no alternatives other than to use crafted stuff (save for UL owners) we all will win and MA wlll win too...

This "reduce the cost to play campaign" run by the previous CEO was a fucking economic disaster and that's why hunters are fighting for 101%.

Oh, for player it doesnt matter if they have to pay MU or lose TT I suppose. Tbh Id rather make another player happy and pay MU but this glorified MU isnt produced from thin air. The markup origins from other players, for the person paying it dont matter if its MU or TT really since pedcard still gets smaller dont you think??

Sub-Zero · Jul 13, 2017

Mathilda said:
that would be cool if i now wasnt boxed in to only 5 mobs i can get "optimal loot" from

Adapt or die, the rule of universe, both in EU and the multiverse. Hard truth.

Evey · Jul 13, 2017

DakinGaros said:
I am doing great! Since Loot 2.0, How YOU DOIN'

<removed>

The levels of frustration you had to endure for 10 years... since you're not rich nor bright, you had to loose on all fronts. Now, you get one loot, without you having any merit in this (you just happened to be there) and suddenly you're the king of the world :lolup:

You're the saddest thing on this forum, ever.

atomicstorm · Jul 13, 2017

Welp, that escalated quickly...

Eli · Jul 13, 2017

This aligns with what Zho and I suspect everyone with high eco will see. You can hit hard, take down faster and be optimal for much more than those without the gear. But the TT return will only compensate you for cost spent minus their cut. Which means eco no longer has a chance to make up the cut.

Let's not beat around the bush on this one. The public demanded a nerf to EST. Mind Ark delivered. In the form of a global economy buff nerf. It solves the problem of the "exploiters". I believe MA is doing their best to satisfy it's customers in a fair way. I don't think the customers know what they want though. If this isn't it, now is the time to speak up

Could you share your data in our thread in loot theories? Especially if you have any more raw numbers or more drill down.

girtsn · Jul 13, 2017

again, most jump to conclusion the issue started with loot 2.0 - but it cannot really be as June is only 1/3 of loot 2.0

Eli · Jul 13, 2017

About the MU dreams. You guys understand that the mark up you charge for loot will charge right back to you in gear right. When MA chokes out UL and paves the way for crafted weaponry, you will still have to pay mark up because Crafters have to charge MU.

You will never make up the cut.

Sorry for the horrible grammar trying to post on phone under blanket to not wake the BF.

Rocket192 · Jul 13, 2017

girtsn said:
again, most jump to conclusion the issue started with loot 2.0 - but it cannot really be as June is only 1/3 of loot 2.0

for the record.. my returns and those of many players were dogshit the entire month of june and just happened to get a little worse after 2.0.

atomicstorm · Jul 13, 2017

girtsn said:
again, most jump to conclusion the issue started with loot 2.0 - but it cannot really be as June is only 1/3 of loot 2.0

We make the conclusion because that was the implied intent of his post. This is why i said more data is required.

Eli · Jul 13, 2017

girtsn said:
again, most jump to conclusion the issue started with loot 2.0 - but it cannot really be as June is only 1/3 of loot 2.0

We conclude based on limited data. Until more data is shared we can't reassess. Specific data takes time. But it's a given that conclusions are always made with data available. But getting data shard is pretty taboo, especially hard earned data that requires people to plant their butts in a chair for days doing nothing much else. No one wants to share that. That's the culture here. But lots of theories though.

Xen · Jul 13, 2017

Eli said:
This aligns with what Zho and I suspect everyone with high eco will see. You can hit hard, take down faster and be optimal for much more than those without the gear. But the TT return will only compensate you for cost spent minus their cut. Which means eco no longer has a chance to make up the cut.

Let's not beat around the bush on this one. The public demanded a nerf to EST. Mind Ark delivered. In the form of a global economy buff nerf. It solves the problem of the "exploiters". I believe MA is doing their best to satisfy it's customers in a fair way. I don't think the customers know what they want though. If this isn't it, now is the time to speak up

Could you share your data in our thread in loot theories? Especially if you have any more raw numbers or more drill down.

All because of EST? You think MA would make this big of a change just because of EST, really? I hope not, considering they could have just nerfed the armor.

SKULL777 · Jul 13, 2017

Eli said:
About the MU dreams. You guys understand that the mark up you charge for loot will charge right back to you in gear right. When MA chokes out UL and paves the way for crafted weaponry, you will still have to pay mark up because Crafters have to charge MU.

You will never make up the cut.

Sorry for the horrible grammar trying to post on phone under blanket to not wake the BF.

FoR EU to continue high MU is the way to go
playing the game should be rewarded use high mu tools in hunting and mining to get high mu stuff
if all items are 100-101%(more shrapnel anybody) then why play MA takes their share and you will lose always

Good old days for me
Mining one area with Narc 170% Iron 120% Zand 900% Redu 700% Ado 600%
with VRX3000 and UL5 amp each 45 min I made 75-100 peds those days are over
Also back then skills had high MU also

BuStLe · Jul 13, 2017

Cerberis said:
Hello everyone.

Avatar: 538k total skills, 341HP.

Gear used:
*Improved A-3 Justifier Mk.II T8 + Omegaton A204 Hypercharged - mostly no enhancers
*ModFap T1
*Ares perfected ring(crit chance 1.2%, crit dmg 14%. Easter ring 2016(crit dmg 8% crit Chance 3%)
*Adjusted Nemesis set, but mostly naked.
*Omegaton Ranger Scope Mk I (crit chance 1%)

Total 5.2% crit chance and 22% crit damage from items.
Total with easter egg: crit chance 7.2%, crit damage 36% (using eggs all the time at the moment)

June: Hunted Oculus (not taxed) with EST set +60% crit dmg.(75% approx)
Also feffox, robots, levis (25%)
Small run on yuka and kameldon

TT spent: 157619 ped
TT income: 150474 ped
TT return: 95,46%
Total TT -7145 ped

This new loot is insane. I never lost so much in such short period of time. I think they are testing economy by rip players ped card's off and I wonder where the hell is the money going.

I understand your frustration but you need to share all months return before June cuz if this is the 1st time you had such a bad return I'll tell you are doing awesome.

Let me show you guys my hunting returns since loot 2.0:

TT spent: 69849,93 ped
TT income: 59733,75 ped
TT return: 85,52%
Total TT -10116,18 ped

Need to add this log started at 26-06-2017. Yes, two and a half weeks and I already more then 1000USD's and NO I never been in the positive side ever!

This is a completely ripoff and has to change or I wont stay for too long!!

Equipment:
Calytrek Ten+dante
Adj rest chip
Ares imp
Athenic Aug
Ghost-Naked(mostly)

Cheers from a MindArk financial supporter since 2005

carle · Jul 13, 2017

Eli said:
This aligns with what Zho and I suspect everyone with high eco will see. You can hit hard, take down faster and be optimal for much more than those without the gear. But the TT return will only compensate you for cost spent minus their cut. Which means eco no longer has a chance to make up the cut.

Based on 500 mobs...
If there is something i cant stand its when people show statistics with too low sample volume.

Atm your only at early stages of a theory, you found a starting angle now your only option is to test your theory from every angle till you break it.
Once youve tested it too the level you deem its unbreakable, then its time to show the world.

Reguarding to hulks TT returns.

I more intressed in seeing the july return cos the first week after 2.0 loot was robbing me as well, gradually its grown better so im thinking based on noting MA did a fast one and robbed the lootpool while they was redesigning.

atomicstorm · Jul 13, 2017

BuStLe said:
This new loot is insane. I never lost so much in such short period of time. I think they are testing economy by rip players ped card's off and I wonder where the hell is the money going.

I understand your frustration but you need to share all months return before June cuz if this is the 1st time you had such a bad return I'll tell you are doing awesome.

Let me show you guys my hunting returns since loot 2.0:

TT spent: 69849,93 ped
TT income: 59733,75 ped
TT return: 85,52%
Total TT -10116,18 ped

Need to add this log started at 26-06-2017. Yes, two and a half weeks and I already more then 1000USD's and NO I never been in the positive side ever!

This is a completely ripoff and has to change or I wont stay for too long!!

Equipment:
Calytrek Ten+dante
Adj rest chip
Ares imp
Athenic Aug
Ghost-Naked(mostly)

Cheers from a MindArk financial supporter since 2005

While i agree with your sentiment, you also popped a very large magurg breeder. My loot was poor for 15 months following my 64k.

It isnt fun to be at 85%.. so i wont justify that your returns are justified. But volatility is a bit silly.

Vagrant · Jul 13, 2017

What is your result after MU?

minim · Jul 13, 2017

vagrant said:
what is your result after mu?

mu? ------------

Vagrant · Jul 13, 2017

minim said:
mu? ------------

Yes markup, did you (op) get good quality loot with your high efficiency tool and if so what was the result after selling it?

DoA · Jul 13, 2017

krogfan said:
the sole reason for progress must be the possibility to do better if youre stronger.

Wouldn't that turn the game into a Ponzi scheme, where the newcomers pay for the old timers?

Being rewarded for playing smarter is one thing, but just being rewarded for simply being here earlier and invested more is plain wrong.

In my vision, the only reward for getting stronger would be that you would have access to a larger range of mobs to choose from, so you would have more options to pick the mob with the best MU at any given time. But it would still be up to you to make an educated guess... or not.

Cerberis said:
[Uberloot]

TT spent: 157619 ped
TT income: 150474 ped
TT return: 95,46%
Total TT -7145 ped

I can see that, indeed, you were right and there's a need for some people to profit because otherwise there wouldn't be much incentive for others to join the game, stick with it and try to grow up.

However, I still strongly feel that the game should never allow some players to reach TT profits over the long term just by buying uber gear and shoot blindly, 24/7, while eventually watching a movie on the second monitor.

So the *CHANCE TO* profit should come from markup, and getting markup means playing smart (know what mobs to hunt at any give time, based on existing supply and demand / know what mobs and with what gear to hunt for higher chance of getting optimal loot and not just tons of shrapnel / etc).

And, as far as I can see loot 2.0 is at least attempting to do just this so, once again, well done MA!

About OPs return rates, I think they're within the acceptable margin (ever since loot 2.0 kicked in I keep advocating for the 92.5% - 99.5% return rates interval), but indeed probably a bit too low for such a setup; I would have probably expected and wished to saw something more like 98%-99% or so.

bigdaddy trim · Jul 14, 2017

DoA said:
Wouldn't that turn the game into a Ponzi scheme, where the newcomers pay for the old timers?

Being rewarded for playing smarter is one thing, but just being rewarded for simply being here earlier and invested more is plain wrong.

In my vision, the only reward for getting stronger would be that you would have access to a larger range of mobs to choose from, so you would have more options to pick the mob with the best MU at any given time. But it would still be up to you to make an educated guess... or not.

I can see that, indeed, you were right and there's a need for some people to profit because otherwise there wouldn't be much incentive for others to join the game, stick with it and try to grow up.

However, I still strongly feel that the game should never allow some players to reach TT profits over the long term just by buying uber gear and shoot blindly, 24/7, while eventually watching a movie on the second monitor.

So the *CHANCE TO* profit should come from markup, and getting markup means playing smart (know what mobs to hunt at any give time, based on existing supply and demand / know what mobs and with what gear to hunt for higher chance of getting optimal loot and not just tons of shrapnel / etc).

And, as far as I can see loot 2.0 is at least attempting to do just this so, once again, well done MA!

About OPs return rates, I think they're within the acceptable margin (ever since loot 2.0 kicked in I keep advocating for the 92.5% - 99.5% return rates interval), but indeed probably a bit too low for such a setup; I would have probably expected and wished to saw something more like 98%-99% or so.

Your vision sounds good on paper, but so did Communism. Unfortunately it don't work in real life. The super ubers like hulk and linzy etc are spending lets say 4k a day and they get 90% returns. This is just a example to explain things. They need make 400 ped a day in mu to break even. Now that 400 is not coming out of MA's pocket, but from others players. Then you have same old problem is what items should high end mobs should drop that are needed to give this MU. We all know how Elm weapens effected the game, so we would not want a repeat of that. So what can people craft to justify to pay large MU to super ubers for them to break even?

Also people forget that its the elite players who pump money into economy that helps the small players. As its theses players who do land grabs, runs events, pay full price to warp to one planet for event then warp back in a hour after a event, buy stars at MM and do not mind paying above mu. Its small players who will argue for every little pec. So yes it should be less volatility and percentage of loss should be lot less higher for them. If they cant make money from shooting Hendrix dragons, should they say fuck it and sell all gear and shoot vixens for gear (500% mu)?

Carn · Jul 14, 2017

One of the main purposes in a MMO for me and i think for most other players out there is, to get stronger and advance. To be better than other players and beat them. That is a major entertainment point.
Most MMOs have that concept. I played alot of MMOs and it's always the same.

Now Entropia is a special MMO because its a RCE and its not easy to compare it to other free to play or subscription bases MMOs.
Still, in most MMOs, the more you play, the better gear you get, the more money you get and the more advantage you get over other players. Thats just a basic concept.
Well it has been, the MMO World is always changing and becoming more and more casual. But normally as i remember it, i could always beat other players in PvP or get more loot or get the only loot if i got better gear and do more damage than the others.
I want to level up and get better gear, do to better than other players and beat them. Else, there is just no reason to level up at all.

It is complicated in EU because being a RCE but in my opinion, if you got "better" gear than others, then you should also get better results. But those better results shouldnt come only out of other low lvl players pocket i think ,)
Low lvl players should also be able to get better results than others, by optimazing low lvl gear and by playing smart.

I will never be able to afford uber gear but if this uber gear is intended by the game to be "better", you should also get better results than people not having that gear. If you don't play too stupid ,)
Now i don't know if all uber gear is intended to be "better" in EU, because players make the price, don'T they?
An "uber" item where players pay xxxxx PED for could be absolute crap. Only because its expensive doesnt mean its good, right?

Now all about this "nobody should get more TT return than xx% and nobody should make profit"...
I started playing EU because the game is just advertized like that. I got lured here, because the official advertising is like "come to EU, here you can earn real cash and make money" - with exampled of players getting high loot, also relative new players you earn thousands of dollars and make profit.
Thats why i got here. If thats not possible at all, then the advertise is just a lie and there is no point playing this game.
There are so many other non-RCE games that offer much more entertainment than EU if you look at Hunting, PvP, Crafting, Raids, huge scale battles, and so on.

I find it also very annoying that the same people in this forum always talking in all discussiions the same stuff in huge walls of text ,)
Most threads get offtopic like that -.-

edit: now after reading the post before mine (got posted while i wrote this), i am thinking about something.
I always read something like this: "uber players are financing the game, without their huge investments, the game would die"
Is that really the case? I mean, are there official statements or records about that?
Do 20 uber players really pay more than all other low lvl players? I don't know how many low lvl players EU got and how much everyone deposits, but if the casual players pays 10€ every month like in other MMOs, is that much less than uber players?

I just can't believe that a Game developer can be so stupid to put their game at stake of just a few uber players.
If all uber players quit and withdraw, how much money would that be and would the game die then? If so, then something is really wrong lol.

girtsn · Jul 14, 2017

Every game with skill based evolution is a pyramid like structure, the more skilled / better equipped have advantages and the less skilled strive to skill / equip up as they see there is an advantage.
Remove it, and you are left with a communism with no interest to skill up whatsoever.
Invert it and you have exploiters creating noob avatars to get a chance of noob bonuses. By now we have had it all (all those 10k hofs from atroxes), it goes in a cycle.

The "access to different mobs" is bulshit these days, as all maturities drop the same loot, and after loot2.0 80% of the loot is crapnel, only small advantage the conversion rate to ammo. The chance to loot good items from bigger mobs is as close to 0 as it ever was.
Sell-able part of loot going up on MU is just shortage based, and higher MU on 20% of the loot is most of the time similar to having 50% of loot with less MU. The "more MU" comes out of players pockets more directly than before, guess communists should be unhappy about this as well?
Well done MA? Hmm, maybe blabbering stuff like this on forum is indeed the secret formula of getting better returns in game.

DoA said:
Being rewarded for playing smarter is one thing, but just being rewarded for simply being here earlier and invested more is plain wrong.
In my vision, the only reward for getting stronger would be that you would have access to a larger range of mobs to choose from, so you would have more options to pick the mob with the best MU at any given time. But it would still be up to you to make an educated guess... or not.
I can see that, indeed, you were right and there's a need for some people to profit because otherwise there wouldn't be much incentive for others to join the game, stick with it and try to grow up.
However, I still strongly feel that the game should never allow some players to reach TT profits over the long term just by buying uber gear and shoot blindly, 24/7, while eventually watching a movie on the second monitor.
So the *CHANCE TO* profit should come from markup, and getting markup means playing smart (know what mobs to hunt at any give time, based on existing supply and demand / know what mobs and with what gear to hunt for higher chance of getting optimal loot and not just tons of shrapnel / etc).
And, as far as I can see loot 2.0 is at least attempting to do just this so, once again, well done MA!
About OPs return rates, I think they're within the acceptable margin (ever since loot 2.0 kicked in I keep advocating for the 92.5% - 99.5% return rates interval), but indeed probably a bit too low for such a setup; I would have probably expected and wished to saw something more like 98%-99% or so.

livius · Jul 14, 2017

Xen said:
All because of EST? You think MA would make this big of a change just because of EST, really? I hope not, considering they could have just nerfed the armor.

i think it was even for the EST and for the guys with 4-5 FB that were getting to much profit monthly, think about it , a couple of guys that are draining every month the loot pool and the others get only loses , people start to complain , people stop depositing and then they just quit .
Now its just a little equilibrated , FB doesnt count so much as before and not even the big crit from EST because they reduce the cost of killing the mob , and so reduce the return in the loot.
I see it like this

livius · Jul 14, 2017

bigdaddy trim said:
Your vision sounds good on paper, but so did Communism. Unfortunately it don't work in real life. The super ubers like hulk and linzy etc are spending lets say 4k a day and they get 90% returns. This is just a example to explain things. They need make 400 ped a day in mu to break even. Now that 400 is not coming out of MA's pocket, but from others players. Then you have same old problem is what items should high end mobs should drop that are needed to give this MU. We all know how Elm weapens effected the game, so we would not want a repeat of that. So what can people craft to justify to pay large MU to super ubers for them to break even?

Also people forget that its the elite players who pump money into economy that helps the small players. As its theses players who do land grabs, runs events, pay full price to warp to one planet for event then warp back in a hour after a event, buy stars at MM and do not mind paying above mu. Its small players who will argue for every little pec. So yes it should be less volatility and percentage of loss should be lot less higher for them. If they cant make money from shooting Hendrix dragons, should they say fuck it and sell all gear and shoot vixens for gear (500% mu)?

well now dont worry , the ELM guns will dissapear soon , now we have the armatrix and we will have more , the low tt as 1 ped or 2 ped tt guns will all disapear slowly , or maybe faster than we can imagine.

and when you say that the elite players play for the small players , its not really like this , you should know that at the LG they shoot , and the soc that gets the LA get tax, and so they have an income from what they had shooted. the LA owners who make events and pay for prizes , that will return into their pockets because they get tax after people shooted more that then get ussualy , full price for warp? , well that goes into the pocket of the owner of the MS , not into the noobs pocket, you might say the decay bla bla bla , yea even the noobs that are repairing MS 24 hours per day give more decay to loot that the warp jumpers, stars at MM , well they pay to the players who shooted even , maybe lost , maybe even with that above MU the seller after MM is on loss , and so the buyer take the stars to win a good prize so , they are not loosing nothing .
I think being uber and having 500k ped gear on you is not an excuse to have all the lootpool in game , but im not saying that they should lose a lot even.
Think about a guy with 5 FB or more with pills , and 80% crit chance with EST and i repeat pills, IMK2 shooting a mob without getting hitted, and with the cost of kill equal with the lowest posible return of that mob = getting profit like a boss , and here is not that they get 1000 ped profit per month , they getting 30- 50 - 70 k ped profit per month , all from the lootpool. (maybe you should ask the easter ring 2016 owners how much how was before loot 2.0 )

Kazanori · Jul 14, 2017

I'm still looking for this elusive MU people keep talking about that's going to cover peoples 5-10% losses to bring them back even or close to even. MU currently is pretty much close to dead or you get so few of the items that have at least some worthwhile MU that you still cannot recover from any sort of losses.

DianaLOVEBrand · Jul 14, 2017

It is funny, how god can define new rules in his universe and fuck 2% of his population AFTER this 2% bring in 50% of their Money. Dear MA, ask yourself how you can reopen my wallet. ATM it is closed for you! No more new Euros from my Card my friends

FYI: Cerb Hulk Beris - Hunting log

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