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Developer Notes 13 - Loot-2.0 Statistics

morfoc said:
You deposit 200 $ you can hold 2 weeks and then from one day to the next you leave in loss until your next deposit ;)
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You look into numbers but fail to see meaning, eh? What is markup value? How it is formed?
 
Auktuma said:
You look into numbers but fail to see meaning, eh? What is markup value? How it is formed?
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I do not understand what you say :scratch2:

I made 2 week of turn on 5 different monsters , I harvest all the items % and the rest turn over until arrived at 0 (1week nice 1week dead ) :dunce: after having sold the rest , I left hunt and I finished at 0, weapon 100% Used 1mod evil 100% used 1 beast 100% used :)
turn over ~6500ped per day :trout:
Between the 2 week a craft of 15clics ubb 1400ped saved me :rolleyes:
 
I just love when others cry and complain about other Ubers losses. So why should you look into your plate when you can cry for another one. There so many sssss lickers... My 2 pecs its to stop arguing about things you didnt tested enough, stop being scared so fast about loot 2.0 , try to learn better the game , gather some knowledge because EU borned again , keep shooting because staying here instead of shooting you might lose some good hofs. Trust Mindark they won't duck us up , try to forget the fact that MA won't duck us up , they do it with the one that deserves it, maybe some of you Uber's should deposit for real not just recycle the winnings you got in last 3 years just to get more winnings. And the most important is to remember that you wanted changes and changes and more changes... MA gaved you THE CHANGE . Just remember the fake demands to change the waves system, why ? Was to boring exploiting the same thing and profit ? Or you was just jealous that 50% of players were riding waves? Not nice to have concurrence...and now don't complain about the change that MA gaved to you.
Kind regards ,
 
Efficiency of communication. The meaning of distance and whisper.

morfoc said:
I do not understand what you say :scratch2:
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“Markup”. Joke-riddle.

I would recommend to start with Basic Sensors. Then go to Basic Filters, but would be good before to get stack of Basic Sheet Metal. (Basic Filters, Basic Sensors - subtle pick of symbol chains to bring onto surface lately (see, new technologies are using these) :). Very subtle messages for us to dig to meanings as well. Fun making have so many forms :). Thanks, Providers. )
Come to Fort Argus, to my cave. You are welcome to stand near me at crafting terminal. For advise. And, please, pick to stand on the right side - my right hand brushes, but left hand punches this weird morning - I wish to save your armors from decaying. Look, see, hear. People while standing close to each other on right side could hear even in a whisper. Did I directed you to the world with friendly pricing already :scratch2:?
 
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Statistics are good, but I would prefer if they also say exactly what then mean with "net return". Do they include all decay cost of faps and armor? And how do they keep track of it? Do they count all loot and decay in one week and get the net return that way or is it calcultaded every time I loot?
 
Bertha Bot said:
  • Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
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Is that average (aka mean) or median? And what is the standard deviation?

When a few claim they are "waaay above" and many more claim the opposite, I'm quite curious about the variance (and kind of wish I still had my high school math textbooks to give myself a proper refresher).
From MA's point of view, these numbers are great... but don't reveal much unless the standard deviation is extremely small.
 
So pretty much for every 1000 ped cycled you need 50 ped MU to play for free.
With good eco weapon you can kill bigger amount of mobs so you have better chance for item drop or with bad eco you can hunt mobs with normal drop with some MU.
Whit great eco you can still be on good profit i guess but not much as before and you dont take from TT return but from MU.
Good move from MA WP :)
 
Bertha Bot said:
[h=3]Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics[/h] The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

  • Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

Happy hunting!




Originally Posted Here
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The biggest problem with this post is the fact that it's just a percent. I would love to see some additional numbers.

95% of 1,000 ped vs 95% of 100,000 ped

Sure, they are both 95% but what incentives are there for people cycling 150k+ ped a month to continue to do so?
 
Boo Who You said:
The biggest problem with this post is the fact that it's just a percent. I would love to see some additional numbers.

95% of 1,000 ped vs 95% of 100,000 ped

Sure, they are both 95% but what incentives are there for people cycling 150k+ ped a month to continue to do so?
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You are partly right. The incentive to cycle 100,000 ped is that it increases the chance to get decent items with MU. Guaranteed profit for creating no value for anyone else as it was before, was the wrong incentive and it attracted people with a wrong mentality and a very basic sense of business.
 
Would you mind to monitor, tweak and improve somewhat better? My return is 92% in July, with migration being a total disaster, eomons @ 89.6%. Which translates to -16k in 18 days... It is not like I was profiting before this loot 2.0 initiative (minus 75k from April 2016).
Bertha Bot said:
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.
Click to expand...
 
amazing feedback, thanks MA!

Great to see more transparency and communication!
 
Bertha Bot said:
[h=3]Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics[/h]
  • Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
Click to expand...

Can we get the same data for 6 months prior to the release of 2.0?

Without a denominator the info is almost useless.
 
girtsn said:
Would you mind to monitor, tweak and improve somewhat better? My return is 92% in July, with migration being a total disaster, eomons @ 89.6%. Which translates to -16k in 18 days... It is not like I was profiting before this loot 2.0 initiative (minus 75k from April 2016).
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I cycle only a small fraction of what you do (and with only a fraction of the skills/gear) but my returns are similar: 91.7% on 41k cycled since 2.0.

I guess we are the 2%. Wow, I feel so exclusive!
 
Bad Loot? What bad loot?

GeorgeSkywalker said:
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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And then there's People who complain about lies, Damned Lies and statiistics about Bad loot.


My respone to the afforementioned comment is.....: What bad loot???

I think a lot of people who complain about bad loot have always talked aboout the "Did not Carry Any loot" message that came in about 1 in every 10 mobs. I think the worst point of this story came about 5 years ago, when people complained about this and in fact go look over the records of the last 5 years of State of the Universe Addresses.. and right around 2012-2014, the promis of reducing the amount of no looters now have decreaed to in fact a simple numerrical number and that number is.. zero..


That's right, zero, zip nada, did not carry ANY loot... all gone..

so folks, if youa re going to complain about loot, don't complain to MA, complain to yourself..

Nuff said..

Sgt. Benjamin Ben Coyote (IFN Marines),
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper" (And) "His_Dog_Spot"
 
Bertha Bot said:
[h=3]Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics[/h] The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

  • Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

Happy hunting!




Originally Posted Here
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Bullshit.......:mad:
 
BenCoyote said:
And then there's People who complain about lies, Damned Lies and statiistics about Bad loot.


My respone to the afforementioned comment is.....: What bad loot???

I think a lot of people who complain about bad loot have always talked aboout the "Did not Carry Any loot" message that came in about 1 in every 10 mobs. I think the worst point of this story came about 5 years ago, when people complained about this and in fact go look over the records of the last 5 years of State of the Universe Addresses.. and right around 2012-2014, the promis of reducing the amount of no looters now have decreaed to in fact a simple numerrical number and that number is.. zero..


That's right, zero, zip nada, did not carry ANY loot... all gone..

so folks, if youa re going to complain about loot, don't complain to MA, complain to yourself..

Nuff said..

Sgt. Benjamin Ben Coyote (IFN Marines),
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper" (And) "His_Dog_Spot"
Click to expand...

I've seen in forum some people complain about creatures not carrying any loot message. However, In all my years (11-12 years) I never came across a single person who made such a complaint in game. I don't think the forum is always representative of general player sentiment.

From my experience people are more concerned about overall loot rather than any single creature not carrying any loot. I think people on the whole understand one single creature not carrying any loot doesn't matter.

In my experience people are generally more intelligent than you give them credit.
 
Stealth No Looters

BenCoyote said:
And then there's People who complain about lies, Damned Lies and statiistics about Bad loot.


My respone to the afforementioned comment is.....: What bad loot???

I think a lot of people who complain about bad loot have always talked aboout the "Did not Carry Any loot" message that came in about 1 in every 10 mobs. I think the worst point of this story came about 5 years ago, when people complained about this and in fact go look over the records of the last 5 years of State of the Universe Addresses.. and right around 2012-2014, the promis of reducing the amount of no looters now have decreaed to in fact a simple numerrical number and that number is.. zero..


That's right, zero, zip nada, did not carry ANY loot... all gone..

so folks, if youa re going to complain about loot, don't complain to MA, complain to yourself..

Nuff said..

Sgt. Benjamin Ben Coyote (IFN Marines),
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper" (And) "His_Dog_Spot"
Click to expand...

I think you kind of meant the same thing as my point below in your post via the capitalize "ANY" meaning that if i get even 1 pec of loot it is not a no looter. Anyway i'll post my post regardless as maybe others see things the same way i do - probably not tho :wtg:.

With mobs dropping low % of kill costs now, if you get 3, 4, 8+ target evaded attacks the loot does not cover the cost of those "target evaded attacks". For example a 2 ped kill costs drops 50 pec loot but you get 5 "target evaded..." that costs you 60 pec in ammo/decay.

Yes technically it is not a no looter but it is what i like to call a "stealth no looter". while in the end it may not mean anything, as the end result of your ped cycling is what matters, it is annoying to me and it is just MAs way around the old "Did not carry loot" messages - just like when they added frags to the game and said they reduced the amount of no looters - by giving us loot worth nothing (well not exactly nothing but from a TT value point of view .001of a pec = no loot to me).

It really makes a bad run that much less fun when it seems "target evaded" can suck up such a large % of avg loot drops and more than 100% when you get a small drop compared to kill cost. I actually just log out most times as it is just annoying as hell.

I never really tried to determine how many kills end up as a stealth no looter but i think it will be a fair number of the total kills. Again does not mean anything so long as you get some minis or a global to make it up - the problem is getting them seems to require more time now which is not good for low activity players like me.

This was happening b4 2.0 as well but not as bad - i think - I really have not cycled enough peds since 2.0

and before some one replies that i needs to stfu about "target evaded attack" - that's not the only point of my post - but yes i really hate the target evade thing regardless if it means nothing in the end and imo should be removed from the game entirely - my opinion is that it makes hunting far less fun and my opinion on this will never change even if i am the only one with that opinion.

Cant wait to see the replies and PMs i get on this post :) - bash away if you must - i need a good ass kicking once in a while!
 
Bertha Bot said:
[h=3]Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics[/h]
  • Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
Click to expand...

Is good to hear that they were cycling.
That mean that economy work, that a lot of crafters are buying resources for crafting because they have a lot of buyers.
Btw do i understand right definition of used world "cycling"?
Does it mean that there were things with MU in loot?
How fast did hunters sold that loot?
Who bought it ?
Crafters or resellers?
Or it was trade terminal?
 
about nolooters etc
that was before 2.0 and after too
if you kill 100+ mobs, without any multiples your return would be 50+-2%
you can check it, estimate the total amount of all your multiples (loot higher than mob cost * 3)
 
Bertha Bot said:
[h=3]Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics[/h] The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

  • Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
  • Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
  • Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

Happy hunting!

Originally Posted Here
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Feel free to check my account then, i'm not even close to those %'s. So either you have serious bugs that you're not aware of, either you are lying. Both mean Entropia Universe is not safe as an RCE.

Gimme a safe game so i can deposit again :/
 
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Daniel Steps said:
Feel free to check my account then, i'm not even close to those %'s. So either you have serious bugs that you're not aware of, either you are lying. Both mean Entropia Universe is not safe as an RCE.
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Can you share your hunting logs? maybe the community can help you pinpoint the problem if any :)
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
Can you share your hunting logs? maybe the community can help you pinpoint the problem if any :)
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Thanks for the offer, for now i'll leave it up to support. I do keep an eye out for useful tips, and experiment with those when i can (time, peds), but no success so far.
 
Daniel Steps said:
Feel free to check my account then, i'm not even close to those %'s. So either you have serious bugs that you're not aware of, either you are lying. Both mean Entropia Universe is not safe as an RCE.

Gimme a safe game so i can deposit again :/
Click to expand...

You forgot an option... the % given is mean (ie straight average) rather than median (actual middle point).
Top earners (and losers) are not excluded to give accurate representation of true average.

Same as in RL where top earners such as company CEOs boost average salary numbers (which some even use to say "hey look at how much we pay our employees on average").
 
Are planet partner players, I.e. avatars that are paid in ped weekly just to hunt included in stats? Assuming so since it says all.


The question about what exactly is the definition of cycling is also important. Are u just counting tt ed shrapnel in that
 
The stats as given create more questions than they answer.

1) How is the data collected? (How can we trust the accuracy?)
2) How does MA define "Net Return"? (May mean something different to them than to you)
3) What is the size of the data set? (Big difference between 100 players and 10,000 players)
4) What is the high and low value? (Is there a huge gap between players?)
5) What is the average with the top 5% removed? (One massive HOF could throw the data)
6) Is this only hunting returns or does it include any other activities of that avatar?
7) Are consumption of pills factored in?

Just posting 5 lines of numbers that anybody could have just made up and typed out doesn't really tell us anything useful.
 
Detritus said:
The stats as given create more questions than they answer.

1) How is the data collected? (How can we trust the accuracy?)
2) How does MA define "Net Return"? (May mean something different to them than to you)
3) What is the size of the data set? (Big difference between 100 players and 10,000 players)
4) What is the high and low value? (Is there a huge gap between players?)
5) What is the average with the top 5% removed? (One massive HOF could throw the data)
6) Is this only hunting returns or does it include any other activities of that avatar?
7) Are consumption of pills factored in?

Just posting 5 lines of numbers that anybody could have just made up and typed out doesn't really tell us anything useful.
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1) Probably some form of system that tracks loot (similar to Entropialife tracking globals).

2) As you said, Can't be certain but since it would be hard to count every persons markup per item sold I would make a strong guess that it means TT value of said returns.

3) Since they stated that the returns for 'ALL' (Notice ALL) activity was 94.71% It would be safe to assume that it is in fact every person that has killed a mob that make up these statistics.

4) Would be interesting to see what peoples average cost per hunt (defensive, offensive cost) would be. But that is information that is extremely hard to come by and we will probably never know. (Unless we ourselves decide to run some statistics ourselves) This is most likely what would cause big gaps in overall returns, in my opinion.

5) Interesting question. Would love to see that information but we probably never will.

6) It clearly says 'Hunting activity' so why would it involve anything else?

7) They said in the patch notes that pills now have a factor in loot returns so unless something is broken (Wich they would have stated) one could assume that yes they do.
 
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