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Major concern regarding teaming and shared loot in Loot 2.0

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Mathilda

Old Alpha
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Mathilda nukegirl Chei
Loot is generated based on ped spent and not the hp of the mob but loot is still split on damage % dealt, this means that high eco players are gonna leech a lot of peds off the lower eco ones.

For example Player A has 3.0 dpp and Player B has 1,5dpp. they both have the same dps

Player A kills a 300 hp mob, he pays 1 ped and gets 0,9ped back (90% return) . Player B kills the same mob 300 hp, he pays 2 ped and gets 1,8 ped back (90% return)

Now player A and B team up, they deal 150 damage each, player A pays 0,5 ped and player B pays 1ped. they get 1,35 (90%). And the loot is split like this: Player A: 0,675 (135% of what he spent) Player B:0,675 (67.5% of what he spent) Player A is now making a massive TT profit at the cost of player B

Edit: After the release of accustim, devastim and mayhem amps it is extremely easy to reach 4.0+ DPP, i'd advice anyone with less DPP to stay away from shared loot until the sytem is rebalanced
 
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Mathilda said:
Loot is generated based on ped spent and not the hp of the mob but loot is still split on damage % dealt, this means that high eco players are gonna leech a lot of peds off the lower eco ones.

For example Player A has 3.0 dpp and Player B has 1,5dpp. they both have the same dps

Player A kills a 300 hp mob, he pays 1 ped and gets 0,9ped back (90% return) . Player B kills the same mob 300 hp, he pays 2 ped and gets 1,8 ped back (90% return)

Now player A and B team up, they deal 150 damage each, player A pays 0,5 ped and player B pays 1ped. they get 1,35 (90%). And the loot is split like this: Player A: 0,675 (135% of what he spent) Player B:0,675 (67.5% of what he spent) Player A is now making a massive TT profit at the cost of player B
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You could teamhunt with friends and share costs or gains equal, no matter who does most or least damage.
 
MA has been pushing a lof of shared loot events recently and once some high eco people show up everyone elses returns are gonna suffer

Edit: if the average dpp is 3.0 and you have 3,6 you are gonna get up to 20% increased loot compared to if you were hunting solo at the cost of other people
 
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This has always been the case, but now it will have a more profound effect... in other words, uber dpp users should be shooting shared robots once migration is over.
 
Mathilda said:
For example Player A has 3.0 dpp and Player B has 1,5dpp. they both have the same dps
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First, in most cases, the extreme low eco weapons (such as Gríndhouse Sleaze) will probably be outdamaged in a bigger team (of mid-level players, not in an "opalo hunt").

Secondly, I Think it was said that the weapon economy (not counting markup% here) was only 5%-10% of the total loot, that it wouldn't be that much of a differenec. Mayeb then player A, 55% loot and player B, 45% loot.

Third, now knowing how system works (I guess), if you want to hunt with "silly" weapons (extreme in some way) you better do it on your own, rather than shooting same mob with other players with better eco. If you want most efficient loot return that is.
 
as already said, this has always been the case.
 
As I explained last night, it (should) still work exactly as it did in the past.

Your concern seems to be based on this idea that the total loot of shared loot mobs is going to be massively pumped up by low eco players. While that may be the case in theory, in practical reality it isn't going to happen.

It's true that the difference between solo hunting and team/shared hunting has been altered in the new system, but that's because solo hunting has changed, not because team/shared hunting has changed.
 
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This is a good point and should be tested. A buffed avatar compared with unbuffed avatar at ~same dps should do the trick. Compare shrapnel returned.
 
what even needs to be tested here? :scratch2::laugh:

that you found a case where nothing changed with loot 2.0? even if loot is different now, its split the same way like before?
 
Nothing needs to be tested here... just ask around and make logical conclusions for yourself. If you want numbers look to vodka's 2016 migration shared loot results. If I can recall he wasn't shooting during the ATH so results can't be skewed.

Also changing this is nearly impossible without fundamentally moving loot away from cost to kill and replacing it with global dpp health-based loot from mobs..

However this change would result in 3.5 dpp players getting obscene 110%+ returns. It's an impossible battle to win unless a separate algorithm is created for team and shared loot
 
What Op says is like this : Team from NOOB with UBER ..... just don't !
On shared mobs..... well if you're a noob with 100$ invested, you want win the same with a guy with 50.000$ invested? Good joke. All is perfect as it is.
 
Ah.... how we cling so desperately to Loot 1.0 when just a month ago we were welcoming the coming of Loot 2.0 with open arms.

Whether this is intended or not, it is dramatically different from solo hunting.

There IS a problem. Shared loot is impossible for players to gauge how MA calculates their participation.

With Loot 2.0, MA is clearly sending the message that there are very well thought out methods to loot calculations and that players should work harder to find their "optimal". Except in shared loot. All that is out the window and you have no idea what your contribution is compared to the 30 other people there. You could be highly efficient with your set up but have no clue what the loot spread was like. It becomes a gamble.

If MA has gone through all this to level the playing field, normalize everything and make solo mobs loot based on cost, then it needs to be similarly applied to team and shared hunts. That's their statement and if they can't apply it to hunting as a whole then it needs to be clearly explained because not all players surf dev notes constantly and not all players are aware of the intricacies of loot calculations and without any summary of loot in shared hunting it is impossible to run any data tests.
 
for shared mobs etc ...the loot spread should be like in the past...but i realized more items in their loot....this is NOT good in any manner....i know an item sounds like a good idea for shared ones...

but if you wanna go for lets say a lvl 2xx wave boss etc with 10 ppl you dont know..then 9 ppl get some pec shrap and 1 gets a very good item....and keeps it ofc...

this is not acceptable....maybe ppl will do that once..but when they find out..they wont do it anymore (me inclusive)

a shared loot mob should only contain material components,oils..etc stackable things which can be fairly distributed through the shooting members...

Eddie
 
Edward-James said:
for shared mobs etc ...the loot spread should be like in the past...but i realized more items in their loot....this is NOT good in any manner....i know an item sounds like a good idea for shared ones...

but if you wanna go for lets say a lvl 2xx wave boss etc with 10 ppl you dont know..then 9 ppl get some pec shrap and 1 gets a very good item....and keeps it ofc...

this is not acceptable....maybe ppl will do that once..but when they find out..they wont do it anymore (me inclusive)

a shared loot mob should only contain material components,oils..etc stackable things which can be fairly distributed through the shooting members...

Eddie
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theProphet said:
i disagree
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i agree to disagree

Why would i even start shooting a shared mob when the chance to loot a awesome markup item is zero ?
The chance to loot the item is still the ammount of damage you inflicted total compared to the others, so even when you do very low damage your chance is not zero but if you the top dmg dealer most items will go into your pocket.
Seems fair to me
 
This is how it has always been. Why do you think certain high eco players were always pushing shared events like The Oasis and hanging out at shared mobs like Old Fred, etc.? To take your ped. :umn:
 
And where is the problem? Invest 10,000 US$ and buy itself higher ECO gear. But to whine "I have a gun for 100 PED and get less loot then the guy which invested in a gun for 100,000 PED!!! It is not fair!!!"
It is, politely said, stupid.
 
These replies that do not even understand the issue at stake.

Should MA release two guns with the same DPS and same efficiency, but with one gun that costs 1/2 to use as the other, on single mobs, the loot return will be appropriate, i.e. one person will get half the peds the other would. However, the current shared loot on mobs that is distributed by damage done to the mob will severely skew loot towards the guy that uses only half the cost.

(Perhaps some do not know this yet, but cost/decay is now the major factor in loots, instead of DPP)
 
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never mind.
 
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wizz said:
Please show me the link were MA stated this.
I thought this was just a theory.

And I dont believe this.
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I am absolutely sure there is some compensation included for the mob evades. But ofc it probably is not more then the half of the PED wasted.
 
nice to see how theories are being brought as facts.
 
This:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?298019-Developer-Notes-11-Loot-2-0

"A new Economy rating parameter will be introduced, on a scale of 1-100, that indicates the efficiency of a tool and which influences loot calculations. This change from the once dominant damage/pec model will provide the design team with more freedom to release exciting and interesting items with a wider range of damage output and special effects. For example, our team will have the ability to create powerful new items that provide access to challenging and exciting content without dramatically increasing cost to play. Existing items will be assigned Economy values that reflect their relative efficiency to one another and to the entire array of items in the universe."

and This:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...?298429-Developer-Notes-12-Loot-2-0-Follow-Up

"The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc.
The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value)."


+other posts on the forums.
 
This is still a very big problem, and a huge concern for anybody interested in doing any shared loot or team hunting, the way loot is given out needs to be adjusted to take into consideration cost spent for each individual player, not only damage dealt, when it comes to the loot split.

Especially with the new Feffoid Camp daily, this is a big problem in some cases.

I don't hold anything against the players using this broken system to their advantage, but it absolutely needs to be addressed, probably one of the most important issues in the game right now.
 
Maybe, just maybe MA changed how shared loot mobs loot is calculated with Loot 2.0. In a way that loot is calculated for each individual player shooting based on his/her contributed cost. If MA did in fact change loot on shared mobs, then all fears of discrepancies can be in vain, but it would have to be tested.

It would be nice to have an answer from MA how shared loot is being calculated with new system and all.

As for team hunting, I agree, one should think twice how to share loot in the new system.
 
Please forgive me because I don't do a lot of team hunting and I don't partake in shared loot events often at all.

Darkaruki said:
....shared loot or team hunting, the way loot is given out needs to be adjusted to take into consideration cost spent for each individual player, not only damage dealt, when it comes to the loot split. QUOTE]

If a player is dealing higher damage then is he/she not in turn spending more ped than the player who is dealing less damage?

Trying to wrap my head around this one because again, if I team hunt it's with my brother and we take care of each other and it's very very rare for me to shoot shared loot mobs.

Thanks for the info ahead of time
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Boo Who You said:
Please forgive me because I don't do a lot of team hunting and I don't partake in shared loot events often at all.

Darkaruki said:
....shared loot or team hunting, the way loot is given out needs to be adjusted to take into consideration cost spent for each individual player, not only damage dealt, when it comes to the loot split. QUOTE]

If a player is dealing higher damage then is he/she not in turn spending more ped than the player who is dealing less damage?

Trying to wrap my head around this one because again, if I team hunt it's with my brother and we take care of each other and it's very very rare for me to shoot shared loot mobs.

Thanks for the info ahead of time
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Not always. Someone with 5% Focused Blow and another with 0% focused blow, using the same Weapon/amp/enhancer will be a huge difference. FB User could also have on EST armor and crits would be 60% higher with no additional spending.
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Doesn't need to be adjusted, improve your skills and gear, that's the name of the game. This everything must be equal stuff is nonsense.
 
Yeah must be fun to gather daily tokens with no focused blows and u have some guy enjoying 120% tt return with his 7% FB imk2 ;)
 
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