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  1. #1
    Old Alpha DoA's Avatar
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    A honest feedback, my perspective on Entropia Universe RCE part

    Hyellow,

    I will start with the good news (at least for many of you) and I will mention that, except potential trade messages, this will be my last message on forums (at least for a good while). The reason is not that I consider in any way that what I said was wrong or that I was somehow intimidated by the insults or threats that I received as a result of my posts (down to wishes to die of cancer or get r4ped and get AIDS in the process if I don't stop attacking them on forums), but simply because I understood that I'm fighting a useless battle against people that are too nearsighted to see farther away than their own interest and profit. Still, before quitting all these useless forum discussions that quite obviously are not leading anyway, I wanted to explain one more time my point of view; not for the people that are so deeply invested that will ignore it and fight it anyway, just like they ignored and fought every common sense point of view expressed here that was against their interests, but as a living testimony for everyone else.

    First of all, I have to say that I really love Entropia Universe, the game and that for me it always felt like a great place to be, a place where I could always relax and have fun in the company of some great people, my only home in those times when I didn't had any other place to call home - so many places you can explore, so many people you can meet and befriend, so many things you can do, so many paths you can follow - truly the ultimate sandbox experience. That's why I really pity those people that are stuck on the profit part and are too blind to see how many amazing things our universe can offer us.

    Sure, I would be a hypocrite to not admit that I was also attracted by the RCE part of the game and that I also dreamed about making money out of EU, especially that when I joined Entropia Universe I came here from another game which was also, at least to some degree, an RCE (you had the option to buy in-game currency with real money, and while you couldn't withdraw from the company items, selling currency, items and even avatars to other people was not only allowed, but even encouraged and supervised), which actually allowed me to make a somehow nice profit providing various services to other players.

    In all the other games that I played, time equated money and high-level people were always more than happy to pay a new player to do the mundane tasks for them since they were able to make even more money doing things at their level, somehow similar to real life where rich people pay other people to do the mundane tasks for them. And, knowing that, as an autistic person, I'm feeling very comfortable doing repetitive, boring, menial tasks, I was sure that I will succeed, because I imagined that there will be a lot of demand for that kind of services. But, right after joining, I realized that Entropia is a completely different kind of game and that there's almost no such thing as being paid for your time; the demand for service providers were very few and in most cases there was no payment involved, but you just had to be thankful for the free skills (if you don't believe me, look how many people are advertising that they're healing just for decay).

    That was also the time when I learned another valuable lesson, that (since there were no direct fee or payment to the game, but all the money that were deposited in the economy also had the potential to be withdrawn at a later time) the whole universe was governed by an entropy effect, in which all three main professions (hunting, mining, and crafting) were delivering constantly diminishing return and that playing only against the house was a sure way to end up losing all your money (aka you can't win in terms of TT returns).

    That doesn't mean I didn't still try to optimize my game and still have a profit. I figured that the highest DPP setup I can have at low level was the TT pistol plus the ZX Sinkadus amp from the premium start-up package, which was offering me a 2.981 DPP, so I stick with this, limiting myself to mobs which I could hunt without giving them much chance for regen (so, mobs with maximum 50 HP, which I was able to kill in less than 10 seconds), plus multiple finishers (TT pistol - 5 damage, HK-110 - 4 damage, Pistol (SA) (L) - 2 damage) to minimize overkill as much as possible. I had also cut down my defense costs not close to zero, but exactly to zero - no armor, no fap, just an Aeglic Ring Adjusted (when my HP was running too low, I was simply resting, letting my natural regen do its job). Further more, I always hunted mobs which had the chance to deliver the highest possible markup, even if that required me to travel from planet to planet (Arkadia, Cyrene, Rocktropia) and I never TTed anything but sold everything for a price as high as possible. I also never jumped from one mob to another, but stick with a few thousand mobs (ofc not in one session, I didn't had the budget for that) before switching.

    So I've done everything in my power to optimize my gameplay, by minimizing expenses and maximizing income; still, I was losing money. And you know what? I ended up being OK with that. I was content that I was doing my best to maximize my chances, I wasn't spending more than I could have afforded to spend and, most important, I had fun playing the game. Also, that was in line with what everyone around me was saying (that they also deposit, have fun, but eventually run out of money 'till the next deposit). So I figured that it was like it was supposed to be - we all had to pay our share, and by playing smart we could only make our money last longer and get more entertainment out of them.

    So I diligently made my small deposits (as you can see from the print screen at the end of this post), I kept playing the game as smart and economical as possible, I kept losing money and I was somehow happy in my ignorance thinking that everyone else was doing the same. I was even looking highly respectful at the ubers (tacotuesday was probably my hero from the ubers; now looking back, guess he was not even really a uber, but he sure looked like one to me) appreciating them for the level they got to, for the time and money they put to get there and they still put in the game and I was sure dreaming that one day (years down the road) I could be like them.

    Then I found out that some people actually manage to beat the house, consistently profiting on TT alone, grinding for hours just because more hours meant more money (or hire other people to grind for them 24/7) and withdrawing thousands of dollars per month. I don't say that this was their fault; they just saw an opportunity and took advantage of it, but in my vision that was clearly a problem - instead of everyone contributing to the best of our abilities to game expenses, some of us not only didn't contributed, but they were even taking home some of our money each and every month. That's when I understood that it's not because MA that I was not able to break even or at least get more entertainment out of my money, despite playing in the most eco possible mode, but because of these people that were taking away a part of money, leaving me with lower returns and with less entertainment time.

    Then MA tried to fix that with the loot 2.0 update and a lot of people went up with forks and torches not only against them but also against people like me that simply stated their point of view that they don't want to pay for some other people's profits any longer. I was called all kind of names, I was insulted, I was cursed and I was threatened simply for the fact that I said that I don't find it fair that most of us to pay more than needed so a few "elite" ones to make a constant profit out of our backs. I have enough of this crap IRL where a few rich ones get richer on the backs of the poor ones; I don't need it in a game too.

    I never had problems with people making a profit out of the RCE [Real Cash ECONOMY] (economy meaning interactions with other players, being paid for providing a service or something), but I do have a problem with people making a profit out of the RCG [Real Cash GRINDING].

    So, starting today, I will stop fighting this useless fight against people that only care about their profits and not at all about the other players or the universe as a whole. I will just vote with my wallet and stop deposit, I will also limit my gameplay to sweating alone (no, not for selling the sweat and making a profit, but just because I find it relaxing) since this is the only activity I can think at which is not feeding other people's pockets. Also, since for zone out sweating and chatting I don't need any knowledge about game mechanics or anything, as promised from my first line in here, I will also stop using the forums (at least for the time being). Hope you all will be happy and you'll have a better forum/game experience without my posts and also hope you'll all profit (just that it won't be my money that you'll profit from any longer; that idiot finally woke up).

    PS (later edit): Just to make it clear to some people that have some comprehending problems; I'm not quitting the game, just stop depositing 'till MA would stop once and for all this 100%+ TT returns craziness, because I don't want to feed the net withdrawers with my money any longer; also I'm not intending to stop using the forums (I may very well still need the trade section), just stop posting in these useless debates, where some people just have a personal agenda. Also, if you have something constructive to say please do so, otherwise please refrain from off-topic messages, thread derailing, trolling or ad-hominem attack because all these will be -rep. Thank you for your cooperation!

    Last edited by DoA; 07-18-2017 at 09:26.
    If you can't fly then run, if you can't run then walk, if you can't walk then crawl, but whatever you do, keep moving forward.

  2. #2
    Marauder
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    Ah there it is.... was only a matter of time..

    Until next time...


  3. #3
    Elite Aio's Avatar
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    Didn't you do this just 4 or 5 months ago? I'm not even gonna bother reading your rubbish this time.

  4. #4
    Guardian Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Hmmm you haven't been back for long and already you are disappearing again?
    I do have to say that since you have been back, you have posted nearly more messages than most people do in a year, maybe just read the forums instead of having to reply/post or create threads. I know it can be hard sometimes not to post a reply to what you read, but you are mainly just feeding the trolls around here.

    Regarding your money going to others, well that has always been the case in this game. If you lose ped, it will go to someone else somewhere, not always going to the ubers at the top, you could be giving some mid level player a boost one day. When you profit, know that it is coming from someone else losing.

    If you don't like how it works, then yes go back to sweating.


    Stocking Laser Weapons from Level 1 to Level 30

  5. #5
    Dominant
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    *Shrug* DoA made a lot of good points regardless, a lot of them made perfect sense for a variety of reasons on a variety of levels. Most, not all, just don't see the bigger picture and choose to ridicule her because of her lack of cycling compared to others or any other reason?

    While I understand there's some fairly large "investments" that players have made in this game. One should NEVER expect to be profiting simply off of TT returns on a more than 51% basis. No matter how much gear or skills you have. Or at least it shouldn't be allowed. That's just a constant drain on the system, and sure, MA gets their decay from it and sure, you can say its only fair, I "invested" and spent the time. But...

    Wheres the TT profit going to come from if every other player under them keeps losing themselves and decide to quit? What, tell them to hang in there and keep skilling and gearing up? What about everyone that ends up under this new person? Its an endless cycle that isn't sustainable and only really benefits the ubers so long as everyone is dumb enough to keep doing it. It's only sustainable because people keep doing it.

    That's more or less where we had gotten too, too many people with too good of dpp draining on the system and not nearly enough people coming in at enough of a rate also dumb enough to do the same thing.

    I'm one of those players that just wants to play because its fun, with no hopes of withdrawing. All I ask is that my 10-20 dollars a month (sometimes more) when I am actively playing, lasts. Which, throughout the years, it mostly hasn't (at times it has depending on the state of the game and various game updates...) which has resulted in a lot of frequent and sometimes long breaks. I take my money where I feel I get a value for my entertainment after all. I have only ONCE in all my years I've played since pre gold days withdrawn peds. Only because I was lucky and got a summer ring, which I sold and built myself a new computer that I wanted for a some time.

    Instead, profits should come from exactly what DoA said, providing services, or at least, actually participating in the RCE by selling your goods to other players for a profit. Its not MA's fault if you overproduce and cant sell them to players so you have to TT it, it doesn't justify having positive TT returns on a consistent basis either.

    Of course, its also MA's fault for not nearly having enough to do with a lot of what's produced from hunting and crafting, but at least it seems they are working on it now with loot 2.0.

    But hey, I'm not a heavy depositer or a high cycler. What do I know in the end? Ill just play until I feel my 20 dollars or so a month isn't giving me my monies worth of entertainment for a variety of reasons, when compared to other games out there, some of them being completely free if I choose to.
    Last edited by Zanathos; 07-17-2017 at 00:54.

  6. #6
    Elite Aio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanathos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    *Shrug* DoA made a lot of good points regardless, a lot of them made perfect sense for a variety of reasons on a variety of levels. Most, not all, just don't see the bigger picture and choose to ridicule her because of her lack of cycling compared to others or any other reason?

    While I understand there's some fairly large "investments" that players have made in this game. One should NEVER expect to be profiting simply off of TT returns on a more than 51% basis. No matter how much gear or skills you have. Or at least it shouldn't be allowed. That's just a constant drain on the system, and sure, MA gets their decay from it and sure, you can say its only fair, I "invested" and spent the time. But...

    Wheres the TT profit going to come from if every other player under them keeps losing themselves and decide to quit? What, tell them to hang in there and keep skilling and gearing up? What about everyone that ends up under this new person? Its an endless cycle that isn't sustainable and only really benefits the ubers so long as everyone is dumb enough to keep doing it. It's only sustainable because people keep doing it.

    That's more or less where we had gotten too, too many people with too good of dpp draining on the system and not nearly enough people coming in at enough of a rate also dumb enough to do the same thing.

    I'm one of those players that just wants to play because its fun, with no hopes of withdrawing. All I ask is that my 10-20 dollars a month when I am actively playing, lasts. Which, throughout the years, it mostly hasn't (at times it has depending on the state of the game and various game updates...) which has resulted in a lot of frequent and sometimes long breaks. I take my money where I feel I get a value for my entertainment after all. I have only ONCE in all my years I've played since pre gold days withdrawn peds. Only because I was lucky and got a summer ring, which I sold and built myself a new computer that I wanted for a some time.

    Instead, profits should come from exactly what DoA said, providing services, or at least, actually participating in the RCE by selling your goods to other players for a profit. Its not MA's fault if you overproduce and cant sell them to players so you have to TT it, it doesn't justify having positive TT returns on a consistent basis either.

    Of course, its also MA's fault for not nearly having enough to do with a lot of what's produced from hunting and crafting, but at least it seems they are working on it now with loot 2.0.

    But hey, I'm not a heavy depositer or a high cycler. What do I know in the end? Ill just play until I feel my 20 dollars or so a month, isn't giving me my monies worth of entertainment for a variety of reasons, when compared to other games out there, some of them being completely free if I choose to.
    I don't want to be mean here mate, but all this "value for money" etc etc; you are in net profit (deposits:withdrawals) - and an extremely high net profit at that - so it's incredibly hypocritical to say it shouldn't be allowed to profit off TT returns.

  7. #7
    Dominant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aio View Post
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    I don't want to be mean here mate, but all this "value for money" etc etc; you are in net profit (deposits:withdrawals) - and an extremely high net profit at that - so it's incredibly hypocritical to say it shouldn't be allowed to profit off TT returns.
    I get that, seems like it when you look at just this avatar and the summer ring that I got.

    I've had a few others in the past that I've used and deposited on, but later abandoned and deactivated after transferring items and such, for a few reasons, mostly due to name, avatar gender, looks, etc, cant just delete the character and make a new one kinda thing.

  8. #8
    Elite Aio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanathos View Post
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    I get that, seems like it when you look at just this avatar and the summer ring that I got.

    I've had a few others in the past that I've used and deposited on, but later abandoned and deactivated after transferring items and such.
    Yes, I know. I know because you've told me, and there's no way you've ever deposited $2000 which is around the amount you sold the summer ring for.

    It's just really hypocritical to say "I don't expect to profit" when in fact, you have heavily profited.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoA View Post
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    this will be my last message on forums (at least for a good while).
    Yeah, right.

  10. #10
    Old Alpha Sionkiewicz's Avatar
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    I think the largest item EVERYONE keeps forgetting about this game is just that.. IT'S A GAME!! It is meant to be entertainment. Like it or lump it, no one has promised you anything with EU.

    Now not everyone likes the same entertainment. I personally hate GOLF but I also do not sit a preach about the evils of golf (white guys dressing up as pimps and chasing little white balls down neatly manicured lawns has got to have something evil involved). I just choose to not watch/play the game. I may play putt-putt because I find that fun but, again, I don't go on a rail about the rest of the game.

    Please, go find what things that give you enjoyment in life and stop complaining about what others do for their enjoyment.
    "Entropia Universe time: 2017-04-24 01:45:28
    [Space Travel][Yoshii Yoshii Lem] If you like struckture and order Normandie and Kronan are good choices."

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