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Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

  • Yes, it's only fair, and I could be one someday

    Votes: 59 26.1%

  • No, because of reasons

    Votes: 141 62.4%

  • Meh

    Votes: 26 11.5%
  • Total voters
    226
A

Avon(AJ)Jerrix

Guardian
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Posts
240
This question has been bouncing around different threads for about a week now, so a poll, and it's own thread. We think we now have a pretty good idea what this means...

Bertha Bot said:
[h=2]Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0[/h]

Later this month, MindArk will be releasing a special Loot 2.0 Version Update that will overhaul the way in which hunting loot is calculated and distributed. Many of the features and systems added over the past few years have gradually led to this update, which will significantly improve overall loot returns for the vast majority (upwards of 98%) of participants.
Click to expand...

So, is this a good move, or should uber hunters be allowed constant TT profit, said profit coming from new and lower level hunters?

Edit...

Avon(AJ)Jerrix said:
Oleg said:
"Guaranteed" is a ridiculous word to use in such a question.
Click to expand...

sbi said:
Guaranteed is a bad choice of word but all we have in this poll. (Which seems biased to make people vote no). Should ubers (understood in the eco sense) be likely to make tt profit? Hell yeah.
Click to expand...

atomicstorm said:
[...]A yes vote can mean anything because it is a subjective and somewhat vague question.[...]
Click to expand...


The word "guaranteed" is precisely chosen and precisely appropriate for this poll, because it is the precise argument that has taken over more than one thread. It started in responses to Hulk's post about his Loot v2 returns so far, and then spread to threads such as the dev's posts, DoA's goodbye, and others. This isn't about markup, it is about TT. The argument is that the very top level hunters, who have the very top end equipment, and consistently cycle hundreds of thousands of dollars...not ped, dollars...should be guaranteed a TT profit, just as at any other job, either because they deserve it for all of the skilling and investment they have put into the game, or because their decay is supporting MindArk, or as the only incentive there is for people to play this game in hopes of joining them, or all three.

There is validity in this argument, but also in various counter-arguments. I will vote no, mainly because as a practical matter I don't think it is a sustainable business model. A game like WoW has enough players to support a class of professional gamers. I don't think EU can attract and retain enough players willing to lose money for years in TT to support elite players in the hopes of one day being one. The issue is worth discussion.

I admit that I thought the poll would be more lopsided.
Click to expand...

...to explain better, because the poll seems to be still unclear to commenters.
 
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I don't think it should be constant, but I am not against regular profit. If you grinded your way up there you should get some rewards, but I still think majority of the profit should come from markup which can only really be obtained by ubers.
 
nobody should get constant tt profit, best hunters may get 100,0 % on avarage but not more...profit must come from markup not from leeching other hunters :p
 
I voted meh.

When I was a kid and wanted some particular toy that someone else had, any attempt at "but mom, so-and-so has one" was met with "don't worry about so-and-so, worry about you".

I don't care about other players' winnings; I only care about my own personal experience with the game.
 
what are we even talking about, tt profit
my tt return on eomons so far, 88.75%
add the whopping MU, 90.1%
thats -12.5k in one week

but then again I am not an uber, just counted in the 2% for some reason
 
Simple answer NO

TT value has to come from others losing it.
A guranteed profit for higher skilled UBERs would be a pyramid sheme, what is illegal in most countrys.
Even easy break even for highest dpp setups is wrong imho. As others said, profit/break even should come from MU mainly not from TT value someone else has to lose.

Same chance to profit/loss for everyone.

Giving some rar things in bigger mobs, that give higher MU due to rarity and difficulty to hunt the mobs that drops it, is ok. Here I think about things like the shrooms, the upgrading parts from the robots or it could be some rar component needed for crafting f.e. generic components (really want to see that drop).
 
Lol no way, just because of putting huge amounts of money into the game shouldnt be a reason to get guaranteed profit.
Thats just nonsense.
Nobody says you need to put that much money into the game. You get more possibilities to make profit, thats all.

You still need to do the right things at the right time, else every dumbass who has no idea of the game and has lots of money could chip in, be uber and get instant TT profit for that?

I didnt read anywhere that its intended by the game developer that someone gets guaranteed profit just by putting much money into the game.
 
I don't think you should be guaranteed constant TT profit at high level. Granted you should get more TT return than a lower level avatar making skills matter somewhat otherwise no real point to leveling up.
I think better gear should have level requirements (whether this is based on skill or health level is up for debate), and this gear allow you better returns but still not get you to constant profit. Also how you play should affect your returns as well in terms or armor usage, healing, overkill, etc.... i don't entirely agree with being compensated for being lazy as per the current system but i guess its how they try to keep newer people from losing a ton of money since they don't know the game well.

No one should constantly TT profit though, occasionally is fine and seems to be what we come to expect (some runs to make up for your previous losses). Higher maturity mobs should give a higher chance at looting items with better MU to give a chance of breaking even. This would give a reason to skill your avatar up, to go chase those items with better mu.
 
girtsn said:
what are we even talking about, tt profit
my tt return on eomons so far, 88.75%
add the whopping MU, 90.1%
thats -12.5k in one week

but then again I am not an uber, just counted in the 2% for some reason
Click to expand...

I don't cycle as much as you, but I'm still a top 50 hunter (was higher when returns were better) - I've been getting killed since June 1.
Loot 2.0 hasn't made it any better either.
I've tried a few things but nothing seems to work.
 
Define uber.
Guaranteed TT profits houldn't be mandatory. People with right gear/gameplay should be able to have an edge, but everything should remain dynamic to some extent. Massive ped drain discourage players, look at the growing player base..
 
pointless thread , for those who vote no...any of u ever invested in any uber gear in the game ? Hell naw.

When mod merc reached 250k why players paid so much ? Well ask someone who owned it....because they were making 20-40k peds per month ...depending on time invested. In this period we had the items with buff that had insane price but imo its same shit as always...profit giving items
are more expensive. Its so easy to only see from your side but if there is no profit with higher gear whats the point in skiling/buying any decent gear.

I would say close to 100% or yeah even 101-102% max. Thing is MA added way to many Ul weapons and to have a good markup for L they need 2-3 time more players but that won't happen.
 
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girtsn said:
what are we even talking about, tt profit
my tt return on eomons so far, 88.75%
add the whopping MU, 90.1%
thats -12.5k in one week

but then again I am not an uber, just counted in the 2% for some reason
Click to expand...

:) dont forget one thing , u started this revolution :laugh: ( EST boys :laugh: )
 
"Guaranteed" is a ridiculous word to use in such a question.
 
Guaranteed Profit? No.
Profit at all? Of course.

Fix the market and cap TT return at 99.9%
Profit needs to come from MU.
 
it was MA that started the buff revolution (some items, then many items, then combining buffs, then items from boxes) and then apparently decided to nerf all of them by rebalancing returns instead of kind of hinted adding decay to them. removing est from the terminal is a drop in the ocean :)
this whole move is what is scary bad, they introduced something made people pay big money for it and then nerf'ed the introduction product to ground. totally killed the confidence of anyone who put big $ in the buffs.
Alina said:
:) dont forget one thing , u started this revolution :laugh: ( EST boys :laugh: )
Click to expand...
 
Answer is no. The system should be markup supported. But the markup in hunting currently cannot support the changes/direction they want to go.. they have theoretically shot themselves in the foot doing this change before migration.

The volatility that girts mentioned and many experience with 2.0 will cause a lot of pain with hunting. Hopefully that is temporary.
 
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Repeat: define an uber hunter

Is it someone who has grinded for years to skill up to level 100 or more and has Killstrike and Quickness unlocks?
Or someone with a fat wallet who can afford to buy expensive high-end gear like perfected or seasonal rings, mod-merc level gun, and the armor to go with it?
Or do you need both skills and a fat wallet to really be uber?


I used to think you could be a grinder and once in a while, get a nice fat loot that you could use to upgrade gear, but it has not been my experience in recent years... although it was in my first years of Entropia.
 
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girtsn said:
it was MA that started the buff revolution (some items, then many items, then combining buffs, then items from boxes) and then apparently decided to nerf all of them by rebalancing returns instead of kind of hinted adding decay to them. removing est from the terminal is a drop in the ocean :)
this whole move is what is scary bad, they introduced something made people pay big money for it and then nerf'ed the introduction product to ground. totally killed the confidence of anyone who put big $ in the buffs.
Click to expand...

This is a game, should be considered as such. Not an investment, not a job... a game.
 
MA doesnt advertise this as a game.
And anyway even if you still think about it like a game, item/system change alters confidence.
 
buckaroobanzai said:
This is a game, should be considered as such. Not an investment, not a job... a game.
Click to expand...

Then it shouldnt be an rce. The game is advertised as both a game and a means to make/earn money.

On a side note, nothing should be guaranteed. You gotta work for it. Show some brains.
 
Do not think it would be a good solution, but to include an avatars skills factor in the loot calculation could be good.
Example: normal loot from mob * a skill factor of the avatar, for example 0.255 (avatar skills total is 255) could be a way to go. Maybe that already works today, but this was just my first thought of the title in the thread :)
// Rapido

google translator...
 
Mmmmm more cancer threads.


If Ubers don't tt profit I quit EU. That is all. No point in skilling or buying gear.
 
The blame should not be at MA for nerfing items BUT rather those who set the price for it, and guess who that is? The players...

Adapt or Die
 
Pretty sure leveling (investing months/years) and improving gear (investing money) should not mean to lose more PED per day.

MU its very low / unexistent

Now you cap TT returns but prices still almost same in most cases. What is left.

Hope does not take months till prices adapt to the cost of hunting in case they do any day.

Anyway I wonder who's going to buy common materials at 105-140% such oils...etc and with what goal.
 
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It was always ben like piramid sheme.
Best items in loot with best MU was always in biggest mobs witch ofc could be hunted with ppl with best skills and best equipment.
As son average player base skilled up to the point that they could hunt those big mobs MA add new a lot harder mobs witch again will be hunted only by elite uber geared and uber skilled players as always and ofc all those interesting items with good MU are moved to those new hard mobs.
In between form one hunt and another uber hunters participate on events where their uber gear rule as protection, healing and DPS.
Ubers got somehow fucked with L weapons witch are very close to uber gear with DPP and DPS but MA will reestablish piramid with loot 2.0 + sooner or latter.
So sky is not falling, those who are used to win will continue to win and rest of player base who are used to deposit will continue to deposit.
 
xian said:
Define uber.
Guaranteed TT profits houldn't be mandatory. People with right gear/gameplay should be able to have an edge, but everything should remain dynamic to some extent. Massive ped drain discourage players, look at the growing player base..
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Mac said:
What he wrote :scratch2:
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SnowLeopard said:
Repeat: define an uber hunter

Is it someone who has grinded for years to skill up to level 100 or more and has Killstrike and Quickness unlocks?
Or someone with a fat wallet who can afford to buy expensive high-end gear like perfected or seasonal rings, mod-merc level gun, and the armor to go with it?
Or do you need both skills and a fat wallet to really be uber?


I used to think you could be a grinder and once in a while, get a nice fat loot that you could use to upgrade gear, but it has not been my experience in recent years... although it was in my first years of Entropia.
Click to expand...

For this question I self define uber as someone who, with their skills and equipment, were guaranteed TT profit before the Loot v2 changes.
 
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