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Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

  • Yes, it's only fair, and I could be one someday

    Votes: 59 26.1%

  • No, because of reasons

    Votes: 141 62.4%

  • Meh

    Votes: 26 11.5%
  • Total voters
    226
Dan59 said:
It was always ben like piramid sheme.
Best items in loot with best MU was always in biggest mobs witch ofc could be hunted with ppl with best skills and best equipment.
As son average player base skilled up to the point that they could hunt those big mobs MA add new a lot harder mobs witch again will be hunted only by elite uber geared and uber skilled players as always and ofc all those interesting items with good MU are moved to those new hard mobs.
In between form one hunt and another uber hunters participate on events where their uber gear rule as protection, healing and DPS.
Ubers got somehow fucked with L weapons witch are very close to uber gear with DPP and DPS but MA will reestablish piramid with loot 2.0 + sooner or latter.
So sky is not falling, those who are used to win will continue to win and rest of player base who are used to deposit will continue to deposit.
Click to expand...

Yeap, pyramid has turned, question is when will it turn again? :D
 
ProActive Mango said:
Yeap, pyramid has turned, question is when will it turn again? :D
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a "Always sunny in philladelphia" eps
On of the gang joins a pyramide scam but its called a reverse funnel system :)
 
If uber hunters get guaranteed profit because they put tons of money into the game, then what about crafters and miners?
People who mine with the most expensive drops or crafters who craft with highest ped per click and have highest skills in game...
They cycle so much money. If hunters get guaranteed profit, then crafters and miners also should get that.
What about someone who owns the most CLDs, AUDs or whatever? Should you get more return per deed if you got 100 deeds and not 1?
 
If they play smart, yes.
 
Meh... it's mostly gamble... and we all love EU becouse of it :yay:

Anyone said anything about adiction here? ;)

Cheers!
 
i got my answer 25k us dollars should be in the instant profit at all times and they were taking our 5 k an month you call that a invest ment not i call that bad system so when that was happening i was spending 500 to 1000 a mount dam i should have stop and depo 25 k to buy a mm now i would have 100k in the banks

that what i taught whit the game some knew how to exploit whit money from the start but got it all back in a years and made fortune every year after

and all the time saying keep going your sample is too low you need to cycle more

i voted no

they should profit a bit but not all the time if there hunting and taking more that 500 to 1000 a month out of the game that way too much they are robbing the mid and lower players

like i said before if you can profit make big withdraw a year hunting and have to depo a certain amount and have a garenty amount that you get back in a year there certainly something wrong
 
They shouldn't be guaranteed tt profit every single time but they should definitely loot things with more mu than the lower level hunters. That way they aren't taking the low-mid level hunters loot but they can still make a regular profit based on the mu of the stuff they loot.
 
With all due respect, hell no. It's unfair to other players and it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. In a real cash economy game I can't see that being a reality.

On the other hand, if the game introduced promotional creatures similar to 'The Thing' that were sponsored by a 3rd party then yeah, it would be understandable that they would pay out more since that 3rd party would be paying into the game to have their creature introduced.

There would be a fine line though, that could easily go overboard and break what little immersion we have.
 
SnowLeopard said:
Repeat: define an uber hunter

Is it someone who has grinded for years to skill up to level 100 or more and has Killstrike and Quickness unlocks?
Or someone with a fat wallet who can afford to buy expensive high-end gear like perfected or seasonal rings, mod-merc level gun, and the armor to go with it?
Or do you need both skills and a fat wallet to really be uber?


I used to think you could be a grinder and once in a while, get a nice fat loot that you could use to upgrade gear, but it has not been my experience in recent years... although it was in my first years of Entropia.
Click to expand...

Lets see...
I grinded for years, check.
I just made 100, check.
I studied hard, got a great job, worked hard, saved my money and bought the nicest gear I could afford, still don't have great rings though, but depo'd more than I would like to admit to skill hard for years and acquire good gear because I could never get an item drop that I could really use, check.
I got a few loots that enabled me to make some upgrades, check.

i r noober!

Yes, please give me all profits nao! :wtg:
 
I don't actually care about the issue itself.

What I care about is that all these losers who are moaning now kept having the same narrative over years: nobody should profit tt-wise, profit is in MU, play smart bla bla.

Well, eat your own speech now :laugh:
 
To all those " Yes" voters, if you really mean that and you understood the question and this game correctly you should all feel so freaking ashamed of yourselves for giving that answer! MFG!

What you litterally say is that, " I have money, so I'm ENTITLED to more money. It's MY GIVEN RIGHT because I have cash. And all others should pay for me." That is what a "yes" vote means.
Because lets be honest, we all know where that profit has to come from. Yes, indeed, the non ubers.

BLEH!!!! This makes me feel sick of this game and the arrogant yes voters that populate it. Really sick and really angry!

You guys are so far off, living in a dream world! Take a freakin reallity check fgs!

Name me 1 thing in real life were if you spend cash, you will ALWAYS have a GUARANTEED profit.

:mad::mad::mad:


Maybe the OP question needs some nuance to it.

Should ubers have a higher CHANCE to make a profit. Then "yes" could be a valid answer.
But a GUARANTEED profit, HELL NO!

Even when seen as an investment you could and should never have a 100% guarantee to profit. Again, show me an investment fund that gives you that 100% guarantee.
So why to hell would entropia do so? Please care to explain?


*takes a cold shower to cool off a bit*

Just to add, this does not mean at all that I dont want anyone to profit. The lucky one, the smart, the persistant one should all be able to (have a chance to) profit. But, it's just the guaranteed part that stings me the most were you all said yes to.


It has already been said in this thread that if money would come from third parties through commercials or whatever, then maybe I would have less problems with the yes answer, but as it as now, we all know who pays for it.
 
If you had said uber eco hunters maybe, but nothing is or should be a guarantee.
Uber hunters are just people with too much time on their hands.
 
I'd like to suggest another poll:

Should uber trolls be guaranteed positive reputation dynamic?

Recent events clearly indicate they do care (although some say they don't), and they're really putting a lot of effort into it, and they're best in their class, and shouldn't the best be rewarded?
 
wizz said:
To all those " Yes" voters, if you really mean that and you understood the question and this game correctly you should all feel so freaking ashamed of yourselves for giving that answer! MFG!

What you litterally say is that, " I have money, so I'm ENTITLED to more money. It's MY GIVEN RIGHT because I have cash. And all others should pay for me." That is what a "yes" vote means.
Because lets be honest, we all know where that profit has to come from. Yes, indeed, the non ubers.

BLEH!!!! This makes me feel sick of this game and the arrogant yes voters that populate it. Really sick and really angry!

You guys are so far off, living in a dream world! Take a freakin reallity check fgs!

Name me 1 thing in real life were if you spend cash, you will ALWAYS have a GUARANTEED profit.

:mad::mad::mad:


Maybe the OP question needs some nuance to it.

Should ubers have a higher CHANCE to make a profit. Then "yes" could be a valid answer.
But a GUARANTEED profit, HELL NO!

Even when seen as an investment you could and should never have a 100% guarantee to profit. Again, show me an investment fund that gives you that 100% guarantee.
So why to hell would entropia do so? Please care to explain?


*takes a cold shower to cool off a bit*

Just to add, this does not mean at all that I dont want anyone to profit. The lucky one, the smart, the persistant one should all be able to (have a chance to) profit. But, it's just the guaranteed part that stings me the most were you all said yes to.


It has already been said in this thread that if money would come from third parties through commercials or whatever, then maybe I would have less problems with the yes answer, but as it as now, we all know who pays for it.
Click to expand...

Guaranteed is a bad choice of word but all we have in this poll. (Which seems biased to make people vote no). Should ubers (understood in the eco sense) be likely to make tt profit? Hell yeah.
 
wizz said:
Name me 1 thing in real life were if you spend cash, you will ALWAYS have a GUARANTEED profit.
Click to expand...

Cryptomining.... *mic drop* (again) and bonds...

No point in going bonkers crazy and shaming people for answering a poll. If we are going to do that, then the thread should be closed. A yes vote can mean anything because it is a subjective and somewhat vague question.

You can, with a little big of energy, ask why people chose yes. Perhaps you might find a reason you didnt think of yet.
 
wizz said:
What you litterally say is that, " I have money, so I'm ENTITLED to more money. It's MY GIVEN RIGHT because I have cash. And all others should pay for me."
Click to expand...

wow that is literally word for word 100% what we said
 
Oleg said:
"Guaranteed" is a ridiculous word to use in such a question.
Click to expand...

sbi said:
Guaranteed is a bad choice of word but all we have in this poll. (Which seems biased to make people vote no). Should ubers (understood in the eco sense) be likely to make tt profit? Hell yeah.
Click to expand...

atomicstorm said:
[...]A yes vote can mean anything because it is a subjective and somewhat vague question.[...]
Click to expand...

The word "guaranteed" is precisely chosen and precisely appropriate for this poll, because it is the precise argument that has taken over more than one thread. It started in responses to Hulk's post about his Loot v2 returns so far, and then spread to threads such as the dev's posts, DoA's goodbye, and others. This isn't about markup, it is about TT. The argument is that the very top level hunters, who have the very top end equipment, and consistently cycle hundreds of thousands of dollars...not ped, dollars...should be guaranteed a TT profit, just as at any other job, either because they deserve it for all of the skilling and investment they have put into the game, or because their decay is supporting MindArk, or as the only incentive there is for people to play this game in hopes of joining them, or all three.

There is validity in this argument, but also in various counter-arguments. I will vote no, mainly because as a practical matter I don't think it is a sustainable business model. A game like WoW has enough players to support a class of professional gamers. I don't think EU can attract and retain enough players willing to lose money for years in TT to support elite players in the hopes of one day being one. The issue is worth discussion.

I admit that I thought the poll would be more lopsided.
 
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Harmony. said:
If you had said uber eco hunters maybe, but nothing is or should be a guarantee.
Uber hunters are just people with too much time on their hands.
Click to expand...

I need more "too much time on their hands" how do I get me some of that?

Avon(AJ)Jerrix said:
DoA's goodbye
Click to expand...
Hey, it might be worth unblocking her to read that!

...nah :laugh:

Avon(AJ)Jerrix said:
This isn't about markup, it is about TT. The argument is that the very top level hunters, who have the very top end equipment, and consistently cycle hundreds of thousands of dollars...not ped, dollars...should be guaranteed a TT profit, just as at any other job, either because they deserve it for all of the skilling and investment they have put into the game, or because their decay is supporting MindArk, or as the only incentive there is for people to play this game in hopes of joining them, or all three.

There is validity in this argument, but also in various counter-arguments. I will vote no, mainly because as a practical matter I don't think it is a sustainable business model.
Click to expand...

I don't think we know enough about how things really work behind the scenes to make the determination if its sustainable or not, but I would like to think the more skills and better gear I have and the more turnover I do, the closer I can get to realizing break even or better tt over time. Why else would I be investing my time and money?
Judging by others comments regarding 2.0 who we think should be there, it seems MA is moving them farther away from that reality, than closer to it for now, so that isn't encouraging. But, we will never know any of that for sure. It is all speculation.

Avon(AJ)Jerrix said:
A game like WoW has enough players to support a class of professional gamers. I don't think EU can attract and retain enough players willing to lose money for years in TT to support elite players in the hopes of one day being one. The issue is worth discussion.
Click to expand...

I didn't think wow players made money in that game except for gold farmers, I thought pro players make their money off external stuff like sponsors, tube, twitch, etc?
 
Mac said:
I don't think we know enough about how things really work behind the scenes to make the determination if its sustainable or not, but I would like to think the more skills and better gear I have and the more turnover I do, the closer I can get to realizing break even or better tt over time. Why else would I be investing my time and money?
Judging by others comments regarding 2.0 who we think should be there, it seems MA is moving them farther away from that reality, than closer to it for now, so that isn't encouraging. But, we will never know any of that for sure. It is all speculation.

I didn't think wow players made money in that game except for gold farmers, I thought pro players make their money off external stuff like sponsors, tube, twitch, etc?
Click to expand...

I meant gold farmers, and people who level and sell characters. They are, by definition, professionals.

You're right that we don't know enough about EU's inner workings to be sure of anything, and we're still only a short way into Loot v2. But I think it is indicative that MA thought they had to make these changes. When they talk about the 1.x% who will lose under the new system, who could they be talking about? I don't think even the highest level crafters are making TT plus, and I flat out refuse to believe EP4 gamblers are. I don't see how high level miners could be consistently TT plus. So I conclude that these changes are aimed at the highest level hunters, and that they are changes that MA thought they had to make for a reason.
 
Are you kidding!

You gotta be kidding starting a thread like this. Guarantee someone, anyone a profit is business suicide.

So, no, its a horrible idea that could affect the viability of the game long term.

Plus what criteria would you use, no matter what you picked, a group of people would be unhappy
 
DakinGaros said:
You gotta be kidding starting a thread like this. Guarantee someone, anyone a profit is business suicide.

So, no, its a horrible idea that could affect the viability of the game long term.

Plus what criteria would you use, no matter what you picked, a group of people would be unhappy
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The only guarantee is, there is no guarantee ;)
 
Hello logic my old friend.. or was it darkness?

Basically, there is the absolute nature of tt profit to be considered over time. Anyone who spends a long time in EU grinding whatever is best will either be pretty close to the average of whatever formula eco-rating blah they are at if loot events are random, or they will be likely to have found inconsistancies (waves) in non-ramdomness.
Any setup or knowledge that gives them >100% tt over a long period IS guaranteed profit if you can wait/grind long enough for it. The question is, what is the hourly profit once you've spent all that time trying to get a maximum-ish multi to rebalance you in plus territory, for example?

I once worked out that lottery players in the UK could pretty much 'guarantee' themselves a profit if they chose their numbers wisely. The downside was that they still needed to buy enough tickets over time to get them an expected jackpot win. So, even after 14 million tickets they may or may not have actually hit a million pound jackpot they would effectively have paid for, even though they would be 'due' one, so to speak.

What would a 101% return look like in EU? 1 mill peds turnover should get you around 10k profit (with swings). How long does it take to turn over 1 mill peds? At about 100dps you would have a max of effectively 800 peds (of 1200) an hour or so I assume, so it would take you 1250 hours to 'expect' 10k peds profit.

That's about 8 peds an hour, which is hardly breathtaking for an individual, but at what skill level might this even be allowable and what would it have cost to get there in the first place? There was another thread about the theoretical price to buy skills to lvl 100. I don't remember if approximations were 100k dollars or much higher, but regardless of whether bought or skilled up through percentage returns of 95-100%, I think MA could get away with returning some peds 'over the top of the hill!!!'.

However, money spent in the past is also real money spent by MA over time too for upkeep and development.

It's all a question of balance, but basically I would have no problem 'guaranteeing' ubers 101%, for example.

However, the mu part of the economy makes much more of a difference, surely? but that's a different question, I guess....
 
Would the hunters at the very top like it.. Hell Ya..

Should MA do it.. Hell No..

Was it like this before.. Hell Ya...

Is it like that right now.. Too early to tell.


I guess from above it should be obvious what i voted for.
 
/Creates new poll about being entitled to TT profit while crafting EP IV at QR 100 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
.
.
.

Joking... I don't craft EP :D
 
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u(n)be(a)r(able)
 
atomicstorm said:
Cryptomining.... *mic drop* (again) and bonds...

No point in going bonkers crazy and shaming people for answering a poll. If we are going to do that, then the thread should be closed. A yes vote can mean anything because it is a subjective and somewhat vague question.

You can, with a little big of energy, ask why people chose yes. Perhaps you might find a reason you didnt think of yet.
Click to expand...


Since you droping the mic here and there why don't you check before you talk bulshits .

https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/profitability/

Cryptomining my ass
 
Mac said:
... but I would like to think the more skills and better gear I have and the more turnover I do, the closer I can get to realizing break even or better tt over time. Why else would I be investing my time and money?
Click to expand...

Thats easy to answer:

To be able to hunt the high end mobs that have a chance to drop some high end items with a big enough MU to make you profit!
To be able to have more DPS to be able to win playercreated or PP/MA events, that reward with nice MU or simple PED that may bring you into profit

A profit TT in vs TT out, should be simple luck hitting a real nice biggy and this should be possible for all levels and for all gears, as we had it in the old days.

Remember the 1k+ Daiki youngs and Combibos at old Sweat Camp
Remember the 30k+ Ambu youngs at Nea´s
Remember the 50k Atroxes

This TOP HoFs no longer happen, MA has flattened the TOP loots, so you need MU on the long to break even.

I don´t say TT profit should be impossible, but it should not be guranteed for those who have 3.0+ DPP, those have already an advantage due to lower cost, so a big one holds them longer in the + vs TT as those with less DPP (lower risk, less loss).
High DPS combined with good DPP have an additional advantage due to the better chances to win events.

Thats the reasons why I haven´t given up with EU long time ago.

I am not a big depositor, to be honest. Thats why I am far away from beeing UBER skilled.

But I am a depositor and as a depositer who wants to enjoy the game, there has to be chances for me too.
Not only for those depositing several thousand dollars to buy the high end gear making it possible to guranteed drain other players losses out of the game.
 
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