Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

  • Yes, it's only fair, and I could be one someday

    Votes: 59 26.1%

  • No, because of reasons

    Votes: 141 62.4%

  • Meh

    Votes: 26 11.5%
  • Total voters
    226
The Jetman said:
even in that link it shows if you buy a good enough rig, you should be able to profit $2k/year per rig, so his reply does stand.
Click to expand...

Probably if you live in place where you don't pay for the electricity . Last time i was checking some videos on youtube for it i conclude its not profiting even in my contry .
That was enought to read for me . You can spend your time read the whole think i dont mind


Conclusion
The average home miner will struggle to be profitable or recoup the cost of mining hardware and electricity.

Profitability is highly unlikely given the current circumstances.

The situation may improve in future once ASIC mining hardware innovation reaches the point of diminishing returns.

That, coupled with cheap, hopefully sustainable power solutions may once again make Bitcoin mining profitable to small individual miners around the world.

This would also greatly improve the decentralization of the Bitcoin network, hardening it against legislative risk.


P.S the whole point here was other . I dont think messi or aurora or vodka struggle to pay for they rent or electricity since they was making what ? 5-10k usd per mount ?
 
Mac Farmer said:
Probably if you live in place where you don't pay for the electricity . Last time i was checking some videos on youtube for it i conclude its not profiting even in my contry .
That was enought to read for me . You can spend your time read the whole think i dont mind


Conclusion
The average home miner will struggle to be profitable or recoup the cost of mining hardware and electricity.

Profitability is highly unlikely given the current circumstances.

The situation may improve in future once ASIC mining hardware innovation reaches the point of diminishing returns.

That, coupled with cheap, hopefully sustainable power solutions may once again make Bitcoin mining profitable to small individual miners around the world.

This would also greatly improve the decentralization of the Bitcoin network, hardening it against legislative risk.


P.S the whole point here was other . I dont think messi or aurora or vodka struggle to pay for they rent or electricity since they was making what ? 5-10k usd per mount ?
Click to expand...

yeah i agree to most the electric costs make mining completely unviable, just using that site estimates 2k for china and about 200 for UK, it would make it near inpractical. i was just pointing out the question was, name something where spending money makes money, and mining can.

but, back to EU. yeah we're talking more than $200-$2k/year and mining doesn't really take $ out of someone elses pocket. i did vote No, there should be no guarentee, higher skills/gear should increase the chance of TT profit but it should never be guarenteed, its an insane idea. the eco chasing inflated the MU for the normal players so much it became either deposit to continue the chase, settle and accept or quit and problem is, many quit
 
You know nothing about cryptomining. I am currently making 1000% to my electricity every single day. Best you learn more about it before spouting that it isnt profitable. So yes.. please heed your own advice.
 
There are no guarantees in crypto. So anyone who thinks or says that it will be profitable forever is building castles in the air. That said currently they are profitable no matter which part of the world you are located in. People should not quote sources which are old ( old in crypto is even 3-4 months apart) as the value of the cryptocurrencies currently makes it very viable for mining.

However, this thread is about EU and has no relevance to crypto in general.

I strongly believe tt profit should not be possible, for me or for anyone else in a guaranteed form. If someone gets lucky, sure but thats just him/her being at the right time or place. Everyone else needs to do well in the form of markup. The challenge for MA currently is how to increase the markup for items. I personally think that the goal should be to increase the avg markup for mobs as the level increases and in doing so will be helping those who are skilling up towards getting better in terms of gear and skills.

Divinity
 
Divinity said:
I strongly believe tt profit should not be possible, for me or for anyone else in a guaranteed form. If someone gets lucky, sure but thats just him/her being at the right time or place. Everyone else needs to do well in the form of markup. The challenge for MA currently is how to increase the markup for items. I personally think that the goal should be to increase the avg markup for mobs as the level increases and in doing so will be helping those who are skilling up towards getting better in terms of gear and skills.

Divinity
Click to expand...

Crafting needs to change so ppl can craft there own guns using your hunting loot, mining should evolve into a new chapter. Like ore you can craft vehicles spaceships housing stuff and so fort.
But main thing is hunting loot should enable you to craft armor,weapons,faps and ore to other stuff, and what that other stuff is should be in MA´s intrest.
 
ProActive Mango said:
Crafting needs to change so ppl can craft there own guns using your hunting loot, mining should evolve into a new chapter. Like ore you can craft vehicles spaceships housing stuff and so fort.
But main thing is hunting loot should enable you to craft armor,weapons,faps and ore to other stuff, and what that other stuff is should be in MA´s intrest.
Click to expand...

No.


All 3 professions should be intertwined and depend on each other... this is the way to success that made 2006-2009 so good.
 
ProActive Mango said:
Crafting needs to change so ppl can craft there own guns using your hunting loot, mining should evolve into a new chapter. Like ore you can craft vehicles spaceships housing stuff and so fort.
But main thing is hunting loot should enable you to craft armor,weapons,faps and ore to other stuff, and what that other stuff is should be in MA´s intrest.
Click to expand...

Agreed partly. Any good game, even non rce ones revolve around crafting being the central plot with all other professions using items from crafting and supplying to crafting.

What i believe was wrong to begin with is UL items but that ship has sailed a long time back. Nothing we can do about that now. The other problem is now if they made L relevant again they would basically be stabbing in the back of every ul item owner. Some things you simply cannot go back from and this is one of those things.

What i can't understand is the incompetence in not understanding this fundamental game design from a game development company. Even now with buffs they could have easily had made them craftable thereby giving everyone a more sustainable economy. Yet they chose the gambling model of cash grab via strongboxes. Good short term thinking but for a company which has lasted 10 yrs+ and hopes to last another 20-30, I would hope for a more strategic long term play.

This seems to have changed with 2.0. New L guns which are better and are using current resources ( for a change the game designer was in his right mind to not come up with new components), loot distribution bandwidth has been reduced ( so the worst is not very far away from the best) and some other good directional changes. It sure seems there has been a change in management of the game, not sure who got fired and who has replaced whom. :)

Bottomline is they need to make small incremental changes towards making crafting relevant again and start following the game development model more then the casino model.
 
Last edited:
Mac Farmer said:
blah blah ... why don't you check before you talk bulshits .... blah

Cryptomining my ass
Click to expand...

there are thousands of different cryptocurrencies, and you found out that mining the first one, namely bitcoin isn't profitable anymore? even that is wrong, noob, current ASIC hardware has an ROI of less than 10 months.

sure, average joes don't have any ASICs, so they mine altcoins. still it's profitable, and you have no fukkin clue. :girl:
 
Divinity said:
Agreed partly. Any good game, even non rce ones revolve around crafting being the central plot with all other professions using items from crafting and supplying to crafting.

What i believe was wrong to begin with is UL items but that ship has sailed a long time back. Nothing we can do about that now. The other problem is now if they made L relevant again they would basically be stabbing in the back of every ul item owner. Some things you simply cannot go back from and this is one of those things.

What i can't understand is the incompetence in not understanding this fundamental game design from a game development company. Even now with buffs they could have easily had made them craftable thereby giving everyone a more sustainable economy. Yet they chose the gambling model of cash grab via strongboxes. Good short term thinking but for a company which has lasted 10 yrs+ and hopes to last another 20-30, I would hope for a more strategic long term play.

This seems to have changed with 2.0. New L guns which are better and are using current resources ( for a change the game designer was in his right mind to not come up with new components), loot distribution bandwidth has been reduced ( so the worst is not very far away from the best) and some other good directional changes. It sure seems there has been a change in management of the game, not sure who got fired and who has replaced whom. :)

Bottomline is they need to make small incremental changes towards making crafting relevant again and start following the game development model more then the casino model.
Click to expand...


:wise:
Thank you

+rep for saving me a lot of time writing this down myself
 
Ofc nobody should be guaranteed profit.....the possibility for longterm profits must be around for this game to exist but the question is bizarre.
 
krogfan said:
Ofc nobody should be guaranteed profit.....the possibility for longterm profits must be around for this game to exist but the question is bizarre.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying that ubers shouldn't profit. They just shouldn't TT profit. That's just stealing money from other users. Sure, with some investment and some effort to grind, but still stealing.

You're basically worse than re-sellers. They at least provide "availability" (for either items or purchasing power) as a service.

You should be able to profit, all professions should be able to profit from Markup. Just farm items that are needed by other users / professions and profit away.

Are there no such items? Then you've made a bad investment, you should sell and look into other more profitable professions / other games.

Items have low markup? Then you've over-farmed them by hunting too much :).

By the same logic, neither mining nor crafting had buffs and high dpp items. Shouldn't people that have invested a lot or cycle a lot through those professions be guaranteed the same TT profits? Why should hunting be special?
 
krogfan said:
Ofc nobody should be guaranteed profit.....the possibility for longterm profits must be around for this game to exist but the question is bizarre.
Click to expand...

Maybe my other post was too long, or most people disagree with me on this.

Statistically the word guarantee is a bit tricky, as there is no certainty as such to chance. Things just become very probable over time and with enough repetition, which is a close approximation to whatever guarantee you are aiming for / allowing.
I think we agree, however, that most of the action is in the mu economy, so skills should really do one or two things: increase tt returns to closer to 100% so that any mu is more likely to take you over 100%; increase the quality of the loot you have access to (ESIs etc.), so that the loot itself has a higher average mu.

For me the problem remains the range of "eco-ness" between beginners and ubers combined with the turnover speed potential of ubers. I actually think the loot quality aspect is quite interesting, as there could be a shift away from high dps along the lines of "unfortunately your weapon damaged the loot too. What would have been a gun is now weapon part residue." - or something like that... careful noobs could more slowly loot less-damaged items to counterbalance lower speeds.

But hey, 100% is also a useful barrier for your system design, so ok. It's just that it is not absolutely essential in my thinking about what levels some people can reach. After all, if >100% tt return (L) weaps had whatever mu, hunters may be plus in tt terms, but be paying that plus to a crafter in a cross-profession manner via purchase price mu. We are close to that now aren't we with the new weaps.... or is there some actual cap blocking >100% when/if you amp them?
 
Ofc you should be able to TT profit. Not saying all ubers should but without any chance of profit and as it now with hardly any MU the game will die and all stuff will be close to TT...
 
Selosse said:
Ofc you should be able to TT profit. Not saying all ubers should but without any chance of profit and as it now with hardly any MU the game will die and all stuff will be close to TT...
Click to expand...

yes all nice, but that was not the question.
yes, i think we all agree you should be able to profit. I dont think we can find someone who disagrees with that.

The point is the " guaranteed" part.
So, should you be able to get a guaranteed profit?
meaning, once you have invested enough, you're entitled to always get TT profit runs.

And that would be just plain sick.
 
First of all that never been the case that ubers or top dpp players TT profit all the time. So the question was if loot 3,0 should come where all top players tt profit? Silly, but I believe system was way better before 2.0! People say profit should come from MU, but how can MA start produce MU since the plan been for a long time to remove all MU and constantly devalue items. Stop dreaming guys
 
Selosse said:
First of all that never been the case that ubers or top dpp players TT profit all the time. So the question was if loot 3,0 should come where all top players tt profit? Silly, but I believe system was way better before 2.0! People say profit should come from MU, but how can MA start produce MU since the plan been for a long time to remove all MU and constantly devalue items. Stop dreaming guys
Click to expand...

Lol, it was just a question, if you agree if they should get guarantee profit, or not.
Not how they would get that profit. :D

Btw, MA could get more cash into the system from the outside. There are ways.

We have PC screens everywhere.
Just sell advertisment space to any big brand.
Or selling ingame branded merchandise?


But even if there was money coming from outside, I would still be very against the idea of " guarantee" profit.
 
wizz said:
Lol, it was just a question, if you agree if they should get guarantee profit, or not.
Not how they would get that profit. :D

Btw, MA could get more cash into the system from the outside. There are ways.

We have PC screens everywhere.
Just sell advertisment space to any big brand.
Or selling ingame branded merchandise?


But even if there was money coming from outside, I would still be very against the idea of " guarantee" profit.
Click to expand...

that outside ads being displayed in EU thingy has been done like .. i dont know.. 10 years ago? it was promised a higher return for everyone due to the new ad money... these ads were playing for like a month until it died out...

and for MU to come you need to wait. the market doesnt regenerate instantly. but lots of stuff is already gaining MU.

and before loot 2.0 you basically only needed an EST, a high tiered gun with full accu enhancer and a bit crit ring stuff to easily profit. i know several people doing that who get 110% TT on average over thousands of kills on untaxed land.
 
Put simply, the best players at ANY level should be able to profit (accordingly). No guarantees though, and I think that's why we saw changes. It's almost like too many top level hunters "accidentally" became the best because the sheer amount of buffs stacked pushed even the sloppiest/careless of high turnover players into profit because they were so far ahead of the general player base. Some "ubers" are nothing more than heavy depositers and or lucky, speaking nothing of how well they actually play the game. I hope that makes sense...
 
Stefan 008 Bond said:
Put simply, the best players at ANY level should be able to profit (accordingly). No guarantees though, and I think that's why we saw changes. It's almost like too many top level hunters "accidentally" became the best because the sheer amount of buffs stacked pushed even the sloppiest/careless of high turnover players into profit because they were so far ahead of the general player base. Some "ubers" are nothing more than heavy depositers and or lucky, speaking nothing of how well they actually play the game. I hope that makes sense...
Click to expand...

What skills would you expect anyone to be better at in EU?? Reactions?? Headshots?? Strategic thinking??

Now apply that to killing 10000 kerberos :D

The best in this game invested smartest and had highest skillcount from brainless grinding (me as one of them)

It seems they want to make smartest player (finding most MU in optimal loots and perhaps at the right mobs) to be the topdogs. Perhaps its possible and perhaps its not but it seems the losses for average players should be smaller now and the gains for people like me less or nonexistant.

I can still achieve positive TT returns but it seems alot harder now then before and the "guaranteed" part of the system is gone.

Its dynamic..........
 
krogfan said:
I can still achieve positive TT returns but it seems alot harder now then before and the "guaranteed" part of the system is gone.

Its dynamic..........
Click to expand...

That sounds quite alright to me....as it should be imho
 
krogfan said:
What skills would you expect anyone to be better at in EU?? Reactions?? Headshots?? Strategic thinking??

Now apply that to killing 10000 kerberos :D

The best in this game invested smartest and had highest skillcount from brainless grinding (me as one of them)

It seems they want to make smartest player (finding most MU in optimal loots and perhaps at the right mobs) to be the topdogs. Perhaps its possible and perhaps its not but it seems the losses for average players should be smaller now and the gains for people like me less or nonexistant.

I can still achieve positive TT returns but it seems alot harder now then before and the "guaranteed" part of the system is gone.

Its dynamic..........
Click to expand...

Certainly not trying to offend anyone here, and you are one of the best, most active in game, I sincerely hope you do find a way to acceptable profit (and fun!) maybe even more than before.

That said, yes that list of skills and then some, and many many people have on kerbs etc. don't discount them!

I have to disagree with your statement about best in game investing most money and grinding most mobs. Those players have put themselves in position to succeed at the highest level yes, but you still have to learn to drive that ferrari ;)
 
I haven't seen a P&L, Balance Sheet and 10 years tax returns that show all the TT Profit that all those ubers are making and taking out of the game ruining the game for everyone else. I'd sure like to see that list. :rolleyes:
 
-18.4k and counting on "untaxed" eomons
90.71% tt return
92.01% MU

97.29% average sponsor ftw!
maybe some of the 100k+ turnovers are indeed still tt profiting :( gz I suppose

girtsn said:
what are we even talking about, tt profit
my tt return on eomons so far, 88.75%
add the whopping MU, 90.1%
thats -12.5k in one week

but then again I am not an uber, just counted in the 2% for some reason
Click to expand...
 
girtsn said:
-18.4k and counting on "untaxed" eomons
90.71% tt return
92.01% MU

97.29% average sponsor ftw!
maybe some of the 100k+ turnovers are indeed still tt profiting :( gz I suppose
Click to expand...

Or maybe... not do 20 to 50 ped mobs, particularly with ones with 101.3% mu. (And eomons are untaxed, so no point in putting them in quotes)
 
girtsn said:
-18.4k and counting on "untaxed" eomons
90.71% tt return
92.01% MU

97.29% average sponsor ftw!
maybe some of the 100k+ turnovers are indeed still tt profiting :( gz I suppose
Click to expand...

shoot 8-12 ped mobs and watch profits come back???

you do realize you'd need like 3-4 mod mercs fully enhanced to get the dps needed to beat the variance on an eomon stalker right?? even with your setup you can kill enough of them per hour to overcome the ridiculous amount of variance MA added with loot 2.0... the only point in shooting them is to loot UL stuff worth 10k+.... which doesn't seem to be dropping this year.
 
In the sense that investments pay back a return, the investment in gear should matter. If MA wants to keep up with the whole invest in your avatar idea, there needs to be a return to warrant an investment.
 
atomicstorm said:
Or maybe... not do 20 to 50 ped mobs, particularly with ones with 101.3% mu. (And eomons are untaxed, so no point in putting them in quotes)
Click to expand...
i put "untaxed" in quotes because this year they give back less tt than the osseocollums @ 3.99% tax before counting the tax
and i stopped to do stalkers after first week as it was completely crazy, guess what was the difference in tt return?
also, what is the point of doing this event if it's not worth to shoot them?

Rocket192 said:
shoot 8-12 ped mobs and watch profits come back???
you do realize you'd need like 3-4 mod mercs fully enhanced to get the dps needed to beat the variance on an eomon stalker right?? even with your setup you can kill enough of them per hour to overcome the ridiculous amount of variance MA added with loot 2.0... the only point in shooting them is to loot UL stuff worth 10k+.... which doesn't seem to be dropping this year.
Click to expand...
I realize that I used to shoot eomon alphas nonstop for the last 2 migrations and I was able to break even (though barely last year). it included shooting eomon stalkers for some periods just like this year. i understand it is dynamic and loot 2.0 is complete disaster for me, but what is the point of making a common event with same mob for all to shoot and not being able to go after a bigger maturity if the skills allow it?
 
girtsn said:
i put "untaxed" in quotes because this year they give back less tt than the osseocollums @ 3.99% tax before counting the tax
and i stopped to do stalkers after first week as it was completely crazy, guess what was the difference in tt return?
also, what is the point of doing this event if it's not worth to shoot them?


I realize that I used to shoot eomon alphas nonstop for the last 2 migrations and I was able to break even (though barely last year). it included shooting eomon stalkers for some periods just like this year. i understand it is dynamic and loot 2.0 is complete disaster for me, but what is the point of making a common event with same mob for all to shoot and not being able to go after a bigger maturity if the skills allow it?
Click to expand...

Anecdotal at best. Migration and heavily populated areas are always volatile.. sometimes you get the swirls, many times you are bent over. Yea you could do bigger mobs because you can, but you need the bankroll and the markup needs to be there for it to be worth. But you knew all this already, so it begs the question as why this needs to be a constant reminder?

TT was never the focus of hunting. It was always markup. But you could win TT with gear and grind on mobs with just shrapnel and ammo. Now with 2.0, it seems you cant or it is more important to find the markup.. as it should be... just like the other 2 professions. While volatility doesnt make much sense, it is what it is.
 
TT profit should never be "guaranteed". If I'm guaranteed TT profit for shooting a tub of shit 24/7 I'm going to hire some people from a foreign country for a few bucks an hour and exploit the shit out of that guarantee. Now where do we think this guaranteed profit is coming from? I guarantee you it's not from the house (mindark). But from other players. Now when all of the lesser eco players, some high level highly invested, stop playing the game and there's no one else to profit off of. What happens to the value of gear then?

I think having access to gear and skills to hunt certain mobs should reward with more markup. Right now it seems like that's not the case though. I get more ELM from young eomon than gambling on higher ones because of being able to kill more in a shorter time period. So the only reason to hunt larger eomon is for a stab in the dark at an UL item.

Ever since I started the game it's always been about profiting off of markup. I was able to do well for quite some time. Then explosives were introduced and the markup on virtually everything went to almost 0. Or maybe you can get 102-103% if you sell some stackable in a 20 ped tt stack once per day.. whoopty fucking doo!

Hopefully loot 2.0 restores some of the long lost markup in loot... I vote for nanocubes in loot :wise::laugh:
 
SirAzzah said:
TT profit should never be "guaranteed". If I'm guaranteed TT profit for shooting a tub of shit 24/7 I'm going to hire some people from a foreign country for a few bucks an hour and exploit the shit out of that guarantee. Now where do we think this guaranteed profit is coming from? I guarantee you it's not from the house (mindark). But from other players. Now when all of the lesser eco players, some high level highly invested, stop playing the game and there's no one else to profit off of. What happens to the value of gear then?

I think having access to gear and skills to hunt certain mobs should reward with more markup. Right now it seems like that's not the case though. I get more ELM from young eomon than gambling on higher ones because of being able to kill more in a shorter time period. So the only reason to hunt larger eomon is for a stab in the dark at an UL item.

Ever since I started the game it's always been about profiting off of markup. I was able to do well for quite some time. Then explosives were introduced and the markup on virtually everything went to almost 0. Or maybe you can get 102-103% if you sell some stackable in a 20 ped tt stack once per day.. whoopty fucking doo!

Hopefully loot 2.0 restores some of the long lost markup in loot... I vote for nanocubes in loot :wise::laugh:
Click to expand...

problem is that MA puts out these UL items by hand via raising the cap. and if they dont want you to loot it you wont loot it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top