Neverdie Coins, Etherium and Cryptocurrency discussion

Hi everyone!

I thought I would create a discussion thread for the incoming Neverdie (and teleport) cryptocoins coming into game soon on Rocktropia. I know next to nothing on the subject myself, only what I have been able to gather on Neverdie.com as well as some google searches about the state of cryptocurrency in general as well as Ethereum which the NDC are based on.

I haven't seen any real discussion on the topic and what futures it could hold. Regardless of what you think of Neverdie himself or his marketing techniques or #'s, it is fair to say that Cryptocurrency is not a fad anymore. Additionally there are a lot of bright minds out there that see a match made in heaven scenario between the gaming and cryptocurrency industries.

So I thought I would try and kick-start a discussion here about the concept and let's see if we can all learn a little bit about this fast emerging market.

As far as i can tell these NDC and teleport tokens are legit and tied to the Ethereum system so it cannot be laughed off entirely.

I would like to see what people more familiar with these markets think. Growth potential?

Please keep the discussion on topic and refrain from as much Neverdie character shots as possible

`008

It's a highly speculative and highly volatile market, I would equate it to investing in startups. Might go big, might crash big, might do both. NDC is hardly a pioneer though, literally everyone has made up their own currency at this point, and most of them just bubble for a little bit then fizzle out. Hard to say what NDC will do, but will be interesting to watch nonetheless.

speculative indeed, I am aware that there are hundreds of different cryptos now but these are tied to Ethereum are they not?

In my quick research Ethereum is #2 in market cap and usage to only Bitcoin itself so the fact that they are tied to this would seem less speculative than just picking any other "noname" crypto?

I am a little confused as to whether or not there will be a direct conversion rate between NDC and ethereum?

Stefan 008 Bond said:

As far as i can tell these NDC and teleport tokens are legit and tied to the Etherium system so it cannot be laughed off entirely.

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Why not entirely?

Is 'completely' a preferable adverb?

Can it be mined like any other cryptocoin? If so 'I'd like to see pool address and stats

This NEVERDIE Initial Coin Offering (ICO) is one among many...

At the moment there is only annuncement about lunch. But how many coins will be there ? what is the algorythm behind it? We have zero information yet.

At the moment, crypto is still a small community, i'd rather trust a developper behind it than a guy who just called his coin after him. Anyhow what is use of this coin ? we already have peds here. Why not make a ped likewise coin? should be smarter.

Just saying this coin is pure speculation.

Mega said:

Why not entirely?

Is 'completely' a preferable adverb?

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Maybe I don't understand cryptos fully enough, but from what i can gather these NDC are following a standard the Ethereum "sub coins" align to ..(something called ERC20 standard). Doesn't this mean NDC will be tradeable to and from the other Ethereum subcoins as well as Ethereum itself? So as it is a legit and valid currency on a larger market it needs to be taken somewhat seriously?

There is talk of being able to hunt,mine and craft token fragments and such gameplay elements inside of EU connecting to an outside crypto market. This at the very least is an interesting endeavor I would think.

I get the distinct impression that because Neverdie's name is attached, the community as a whole is completely overlooking this. It is not good to let emotions run investment decisions...

dabioka said:

At the moment there is only annuncement about lunch. But how many coins will be there ? what is the algorythm behind it? We have zero information yet.

At the moment, crypto is still a small community, i'd rather trust a developper behind it than a guy who just called his coin after him. Anyhow what is use of this coin ? we already have peds here. Why not make a ped likewise coin? should be smarter.

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There is info.... there will be 400 million NDC in total, only 40 million of which can be bought at the ICO leaving 90% of all NDC to be found inside of Entropia (or other connected games i guess?)

Additionally, I wouldn't really call crypto a small community at this point... the market caps have become quite large!
also, since NDC are tied to a more professionally run and established Etherium chain, I'm not really sure how much Neverdie can screw it up? (at least in the bigger picture)

Stefan 008 Bond said:

There is info.... there will be 400 million NDC in total, only 40 million of which can be bought at the ICO leaving 90% of all NDC to be found inside of Entropia (or other connected games i guess?)

Additionally, I wouldn't really call crypto a small community at this point... the market caps have become quite large!
also, since NDC are tied to a more professionally run and established Etherium chain, I'm not really sure how much Neverdie can screw it up? (at least in the bigger picture)

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Yes but how will transactions be secured if there is no miners? And i dont think etherium will trust a starting coin. Imo, mindark made no annuncement about this so it seems to me unlikely yet to get neverdie coin found into entropia, or it should become a very more risky investment. I know i mind sound harsh, but i trust the thing who start small then grow big, not just marketing annuncement.

Stefan 008 Bond said:

speculative indeed, I am aware that there are hundreds of different cryptos now but these are tied to Etherium are they not?

In my quick research Etherium is #2 in market cap and usage to only Bitcoin itself so the fact that they are tied to this would seem less speculative than just picking any other "noname" crypto?

I am a little confused as to whether or not there will be a direct conversion rate between NDC and etherium?

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There's no value conversion between Ether and NDC. Ethereum is a blockchain which provides an open platform for developing any type of application using smart contracts. Bitcoin, by contrast, is also an application that runs on a blockchain, but is specifically designed to be a currency. On Ethereum the Ether is used to "buy" processing power to run the applications. So NDC is just an application (specifically, a currency) made up by Neverdie, which has no intrinsic value whatsoever. Each time these contracts are run (e.g. NDC is created or traded) it costs a little Ether, so the [perceived] value of NDC has to at least cover the costs of running it on the Ethereum network.

So when you are looking at the trading stats for Ether, that is not a direct reflection of the value of NDC or any other currency or application running on it - it's the value of the Ether blockchain itself, which you can basically think of as a decentralized application platform.

stc44 said:

Can it be mined like any other cryptocoin? If so 'I'd like to see pool address and stats

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You can mine Ether, but you don't mine NDC.

thanks for the insight Detritus. About the intrinsic value, I believe it was said NDC can be used for in game items or something as well. Additionally, there is the conscript (work) program which according to VU notes is already live? (I havent been to RT myself lately). This conscript program offers payment for "work" done in game... wouldn't both of these scenarios in some way establish some sort of baseline value (at least to players inside of EU)?

Stefan 008 Bond said:

thanks for the insight Detritus. About the intrinsic value, I believe it was said NDC can be used for in game items or something as well. Additionally, there is the conscript (work) program which according to VU notes is already live? (I havent been to RT myself lately). This conscript program offers payment for "work" done in game... wouldn't both of these scenarios in some way establish some sort of baseline value (at least to players inside of EU)?

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Yes, you are correct. What I meant by intrinsic value is that NDC only has value as perceived by the people who buy NDC tokens. It doesn't automatically have a value just from being on the Ethereum chain. I was just dispelling your correlation between Ether and NDC.

But yes, since it can be used for in-game items, which in themselves have a value, then there is some basic value.

I believe he was also using it as rewards in the most recent MMO Championship competition thingy.

Detritus said:

You can mine Ether, but you don't mine NDC.

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So NDC is like a virtual voucher with fixed price rather than a cryptocoin itself?

All i want to know..
Can a turn the 500 ndc i won for peds or real dollar and what are they worth?

I can leave my computer minning peds? while in playing? dont care about crypto currecy
or even better i can minning COIN while i make my drops?

stc44 said:

So NDC is like a virtual voucher with fixed price rather than a cryptocoin itself?

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No, it's a crypto-currency like any another; but it's not its own blockchain, it's a set of contracts running on top of the Ethereum blockchain. You won't (yet) be able to trade it on any major exchange for other currencies, you will only be able to trade it with other Neverdie coins (teleport coins, for example) or items.

carle said:

All i want to know..
Can a turn the 500 ndc i won for peds or real dollar and what are they worth?

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Not yet. His virtual shop is under development still, so you can't buy items yet. His exchange is also under development, so currently you cannot exchange NDC back to Ether, which would be the only way to convert it back to real money. I am admittedly not following his development too closely, so someone else might have more up-to-date info.

FWIW though, at his current exchange rate from Ether -> NDC, 1 NDC is worth roughly 0.25 USD, so your 500 NDC has a tentative initial value of about 125 USD.

Vadio said:

I can leave my computer minning peds? while in playing? dont care about crypto currecy
or even better i can minning COIN while i make my drops?

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Technically yes, but you would mine Ether and then convert that to NDC and then assuming he gets his store up you would then use that to buy in-game items, which you would then convert to PED.

In other words, a long and tedious process. Not to mention that a serious mining rig is no trifle. Most miners I know use 8 top-end AMD GPUs per machine. So roughly each mining rig costs about 10,000 USD. Since this doesn't even guarantee you'll discover any blocks, you are probably better off just spending that much on strongboxes and loot a nice ring.

With regard to link below. When someone hacks these wallets which I think NDC is who looses their NDC? Do they hack individual accounts or some kind of generic hack which is applied to all accounts?

Basically if someone has NDC how safe is it? Will NDC be safer than your normal wallets since it's in game and hence added protection of Entropia Universe?


http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/07/24-6-million-in-ether-stolen-as-people-refuse-to-learn-their-lesson-about-cryptocurrencies/

GeorgeSkywalker said:

With regard to link below. When someone hacks these wallets which I think NDC is who looses their NDC? Do they hack individual accounts or some kind of generic hack which is applied to all accounts?

Basically if someone has NDC how safe is it? Will NDC be safer than your normal wallets since it's in game and hence added protection of Entropia Universe?


http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/07/24-6-million-in-ether-stolen-as-people-refuse-to-learn-their-lesson-about cryptocurrencies/

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No, EU's protection (the "gold card") won't have any direct effect on NDC. Your coins are [usually] stored in a wallet using some paid service--which is entirely outside EU.

There's risks involved, thaen again there's risks everywhere. I know personally a guy who's parent's bank account in one of the largest European banks was hacked. All their investments disappeared overnight. When they complained to the bank they were told they withdrew the money through online service themselves, at 3 AM at night. So that was it.
Luckily their son happened to be a doctor in applied mathematics who's everyday work is related to crypto in IT, so... it just so happened a few weeks later that this bank had increased the balance on his parents bank account by the same amount they had lost recently. The transaction was valid but there was no trace of it ever happening in the banks internal transaction logs.

If you think that bank had somehow weaker or substandard security than any other major banks in US, or European Union, think again.
If you think any info about those or other, similar cases was ever published by anyone, think again.

Or don't, you'll sleep more soundly.

GeorgeSkywalker said:

With regard to link below. When someone hacks these wallets which I think NDC is who looses their NDC? Do they hack individual accounts or some kind of generic hack which is applied to all accounts?

Basically if someone has NDC how safe is it? Will NDC be safer than your normal wallets since it's in game and hence added protection of Entropia Universe?


http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/07/24-6-million-in-ether-stolen-as-people-refuse-to-learn-their-lesson-about-cryptocurrencies/

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Ethereum has hard-forked I believe 4 times now due to various hacks and security issues, one of the most famous in history being the DAO hack mentioned in your link, in which 50mil USD was stolen. The DAO hack itself is an interesting example because the flaw was not in the Ethereum blockchain or its API, but in the code the DAO team wrote. Many people protested the fork because of this (and the old blockchain still exists as Ethereum Classic) -- because basically the fork was to compensate some rich idiots who hired a shit programmer.

So, basically the "security" of NDC is really dependent on how good of a programmer Neverdie hired to write the smart contracts that it runs on. In other words, before you put large amounts of money in it, realize that you are relying on the fact that this random programmer (or team) that you've never met knew what they were doing.

Detritus said:

No, it's a crypto-currency like any another; but it's not its own blockchain, it's a set of contracts running on top of the Ethereum blockchain. You won't (yet) be able to trade it on any major exchange for other currencies, you will only be able to trade it with other Neverdie coins (teleport coins, for example) or items.




Not yet. His virtual shop is under development still, so you can't buy items yet. His exchange is also under development, so currently you cannot exchange NDC back to Ether, which would be the only way to convert it back to real money. I am admittedly not following his development too closely, so someone else might have more up-to-date info.

FWIW though, at his current exchange rate from Ether -> NDC, 1 NDC is worth roughly 0.25 USD, so your 500 NDC has a tentative initial value of about 125 USD.




Technically yes, but you would mine Ether and then convert that to NDC and then assuming he gets his store up you would then use that to buy in-game items, which you would then convert to PED.

In other words, a long and tedious process. Not to mention that a serious mining rig is no trifle. Most miners I know use 8 top-end AMD GPUs per machine. So roughly each mining rig costs about 10,000 USD. Since this doesn't even guarantee you'll discover any blocks, you are probably better off just spending that much on strongboxes and loot a nice ring.

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Um.... most mining rigs are under 2k each (as mine are)... not 10.

atomicstorm said:

Um.... most mining rigs are under 2k each (as mine are)... not 10.

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I mean, yea.. you can spend as much or as little as you want. If you build one with 8 of whatever the top GPU is today it will be 8x $600-1000 plus all the power/cooling accessors, so can be anywhere from $6000-10000.

If you are buying a pre-made one off the shelf or just use a couple of gpus, yes, they are usually much less expensive.

Detritus said:

Most miners I know use 8 top-end AMD GPUs per machine. So roughly each mining rig costs about 10,000 USD. Since this doesn't even guarantee you'll discover any blocks, you are probably better off just spending that much on strongboxes and loot a nice ring.

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top-end AMD GPUs: between 250 and 350$ (each)
everything else for RIG: between 400 and 600$

and to solve the problem of solo mining, which isn't really a problem if you got decent hashpower, because your "work" stays the same, you can mine on various pools that share the block rewards to all miners involved and pay out regulary.

edit: only problem is the current availability of AMD GPUs, and also reason for their current price increase. in no way it costs 10k$ anyways.

Detritus said:

I mean, yea.. you can spend as much or as little as you want. If you build one with 8 of whatever the top GPU is today it will be 8x $600-1000 plus all the power/cooling accessors, so can be anywhere from $6000-10000.

If you are buying a pre-made one off the shelf or just use a couple of gpus, yes, they are usually much less expensive.

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Nope not even close. I built all mine.

Gfx cards arent that much unless you just like buying things overpriced and for no reason. So basically if you are super careless and try really hard to fail, you MAY spend 6k.

theProphet said:

top-end AMD GPUs: between 250 and 350$ (each)
everything else for RIG: between 400 and 600$

and to solve the problem of solo mining, which isn't really a problem if you got decent hashpower, because your "work" stays the same, you can mine on various pools that share the block rewards to all miners involved and pay out regulary.

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Ok I guess I'm out of touch with prices.

I'm just gonna say MA is making a big mistake in not embracing cryptocurrency directly any further. Imagine being able to deposit and withdraw in Bitcoin/Ether directly, or give out tokens as part of events... anything that's not just leaving Neverdie to his own devices. Not that I don't like the guy, really- I've had the chance to meet him in game before and he's genuinely likable. However he's not nearly as much business-savvy as he think he is, and just because he struck gold a couple of times and has been able to keep himself afloat with sheer force of personality, that doesn't mean he'll be able to do it repeatedly.

I've had conflicted opinions when it comes to ICOs before- in one hand, they're a way out of venture capitalists' tyranny, and crowdfunding is a very legitimate way to accrue capital for outlandish ideas that otherwise wouldn't get funded... if you've got enough savvy people at the helm, that is. The problem is, given the extreme prevalence of ICOs as of lately done by so-called companies without much of a business plan and without even a minimum viable product to show off, it's a disaster waiting to happen and when the bubble pops, it'll pop hard.

For a crypto purist, Ethereum is not the best base either: as others have mentioned before, it has already gone through several hard forks before, points in history where "rules have changed" to such extent, the blockchain has split and "another version" of Ethereum has remained: look no further than Ethereum Classic which still chugs along, its price a shadow of the main Ether's worth, but still worth quite a bit indeed. To the common user this doesn't really mean much, but it's telling when the devs are willing to change the rules as they deem fit for something with "the code is law" as one of its basic tenets.

Back to the topic at hand, I'd treat these NDC as I'd treat anything else in EU: as fun money, less of an investment and more of something I'm willing to lose completely if things go sour. If it somehow takes off and ND manages to kickstart an entire economy out of these: great! He should look at how cryptoassets are handled in general with games such as Spells of Genesis in which tokens represent collectible cards, perhaps there's a big untapped market on these. Either way, MA should be paying close attention to how things unfold, taking advantage of the fact they're based in Europe which has remained far more open-minded compared to the US in regards to cryptocurrencies.

I heard the SEC is watching the cryptocurrency market VERY closely and is going to declare cryptocurrencys a security paper which involves lots and lots of different stuff, basically destroying the market potential completely. so id say cryptocurrencies are one of the highest risk investments you can do right now.

This is encouraging...

http://www.zdnet.com/article/hackers-strike-ethereum-again-slink-away-with-over-30-million/

Mac said:

This is encouraging...

http://www.zdnet.com/article/hackers-strike-ethereum-again-slink-away-with-over-30-million/

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Yep, and it's what I mentioned previously - not a flaw in the Ethereum blockchain, but incredibly stupid investors hiring dipshits to write their code.


The greatest thing about Ethereum is that anybody can write apps for it.

The worst thing about Ethereum is that anybody can write apps for it.

Thanks for the insights everyone,

NeutrinoX said:

I'm just gonna say MA is making a big mistake in not embracing cryptocurrency directly any further......... look at how cryptoassets are handled in general with games such as Spells of Genesis in which tokens represent collectible cards, perhaps there's a big untapped market on these. Either way, MA should be paying close attention to how things unfold, taking advantage of the fact they're based in Europe which has remained far more open-minded compared to the US in regards to cryptocurrencies.

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The more I read, the more I have to agree with you there. I see Ethereum has had its share of problems, yet remains strong.

Researching further, there are even more interesting altcoins as far as concept goes and how it can be applied to gaming. There are a few cryptos now that use what they call "proof of play" instead of "proof of work". these represent cognitive workload performed and are actually made into games of sorts. The 2 coins i have found like this are Motocoin and Huntercoin... while I am not interested in these per se, I find it a fasciniating proof of concept... If you can actually "gamify" the block chains, things could get really interesting as far as getting paid to game, solve puzzles etc.

Taken a step further, In that long running space game I will call "Adam" Online, there are 2 really profound projects under way. They are both a form of real life scientific data sorting one involves identifying and classifying protein strains (or something similar on the micro biological level). The other, newer venture involves helping to sort real life scientific data of spectographic (light bands) space data to search for exoplanets around stars.

In both cases, I believe, this is actually work better performed by human eyes/brains than AI at this time. You are actually paid in game credits for the work performed.

The concept is there, very real possibilities to get paid to game, gaming hours and workload can be used to help solve real world problems and workload.... is this a possible part of our future?