ArMatrix - why?

I've always gone for UL weapons, to me it just makes sense mathematically. Lately though I've seen people are going nuts over these ArMatrix guns, and I've had people say they are getting good returns with them. OFC, I have no idea if those people have factored in the extra money they paid in MU or not.

So, am I just missing something here? I can't imagine MA is compensating you for MU spent. It's hard enough to get even close to 100% of your decay back as it is. So if I spend 130% MU on a gun, then don't I need to get at least 130% returns to break even on the gun decay, or have I just gone full math retard?

They use ammo too.. paying 130% on gun is 103% after ammo factored in and even better once you factor in amp too.

Detritus said:

have I just gone full math retard?

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Bluntly? Yes

The only case where a 130% weapon requires 130% returns is if it is a 100% decay weapon (most unamped melee)

Once you factor in the ratio of ammo and amplifier to a weapon 130% ends up being much much more reasonable.

Of course this depends on the weapon and that is why you need to factor in everything, Weapon decay(tt + MU), ammo, amp, etc... vs damage dealt.

Detritus said:

I've always gone for UL weapons, to me it just makes sense mathematically. Lately though I've seen people are going nuts over these ArMatrix guns, and I've had people say they are getting good returns with them. OFC, I have no idea if those people have factored in the extra money they paid in MU or not.

So, am I just missing something here? I can't imagine MA is compensating you for MU spent. It's hard enough to get even close to 100% of your decay back as it is. So if I spend 130% MU on a gun, then don't I need to get at least 130% returns to break even on the gun decay, or have I just gone full math retard?

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You use ammo that's coming out of the TT, and also probably an unlimited amplifier on the gun, so - no, you don't need 130% return from it.

The point of the ArMatrix guns is that they have much better eco so the markup on them is justified (someone on the forum was saying that at/under 140% they are more eco than the looted guns).

So I'm not going to answer your question regarding your math skills

narfi said:

Bluntly? Yes

The only case where a 130% weapon requires 130% returns is if it is a 100% decay weapon (most unamped melee)

Once you factor in the ratio of ammo and amplifier to a weapon 130% ends up being much much more reasonable.

Of course this depends on the weapon and that is why you need to factor in everything, Weapon decay(tt + MU), ammo, amp, etc... vs damage dealt.

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Ok I see what you mean.

So I guess another way to look at it is in the long run, will that extra 25 ped or whatever it is that I pay per gun be worth it if that gun is so amazeballs that I can be more than 25 ped in the positive after I've used it up?

Look at it this way: The longer the weapon's lifetime, i.e. the number of shots you get out of it before it breaks, and also the smaller the ratio of decay to ammo used per shot, the more the mu you paid gets diluted. As pointed out above, this is why it's mainly a problem for melee weapons. Play with the weapon compare tool and try out weapons with different durabilities, e.g. Piron vs. B.A.M.F ZK series and see how much mu affects dpp in each case.

Detritus said:

Ok I see what you mean.

So I guess another way to look at it is in the long run, will that extra 25 ped or whatever it is that I pay per gun be worth it if that gun is so amazeballs that I can be more than 25 ped in the positive after I've used it up?

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Start with comparing DPS and efficiency with other weapons at the same level, these are every time far superior. Id dare to say these are even at 140% more worth it then aloooot of UL guns and you dont have to pay whatever big sum of peds up front as you have to for an UL weapon.


I dont know how this new lootsystem works but its definitely fine tools.

Ok this all makes sense. I was derping out. I guess I've been using melee too much recently. I'm going to give one of these boys a shot and see what the fuss is about.

1 - Fix economy in long term
2 - Is high durability its mean get less decay and high ammo usage
3 - Efficiency is above others guns
4 - DPS and Range as well less decay on fap and armor
5 - forget some?

You will not see anything in a shot, EU doesn't work like that. I tried a run of 7 of these guns, I am not a fan. But it might have been aswell about the mob and about how often it drops MU. Using something which is precisely 0 secret, if you loot one BIO ID whatever it's the name, it has a tt of 16 ped and a MU of aprox 30%. LR-20 (barely the third up counting from the bottom) amped with a104 punches enough to put down atroxes. Given the hp, 16 tt is mundane. What is not mundane is the droprate, that is decided by MA. But for 1 full LR-20 (roughly 2,5 A104, iirc aprox 675 turnover/gun counting everything), you get +-500 ped guaranteed in shrapnel. That is 5 ped MU off the bat, no auction needed, no headaches, just right click. If you get that BIO ID you're breaking even on the MU of the gun. And then you need to worry about the tt swings, that's a completely different story.

Of course, math changes dramatically based on mob, chosen dps (both too much or too low are losing scenarios/1st if droprate is per mobs killed, second because you're losing MU to regen) actual cycle speed of the chosen hunted MU, whatever MA factors in when it drops etc.

But simply shrapnel tends to ease alot of the MU.

Ok I've burned up a few different ones now, and runs were pretty good; but nothing noticeably different from my other weapons (yes yes I know, sample size hurr durr). With attachments and such, I was able to get the ArMatrix stuff up close to 70% eff, and my normal weaps are around 64%. I didn't notice any real difference in loot composition.

My main gripe (with L weaps in general I guess) is that the damned things last maybe 90 mins, at least the lower ones I was using. Probably great for a casual hunter, but if I'm going to burn 2-3 per hunt, it's just not feasible. Especially since I'm not usually on Caly, where the good supply is. If you want to go to another planet, what are you supposed to do, carry around 50 of them with you? No thanks, I think I'm sticking with UL for now.

Detritus said:

Ok I've burned up a few different ones now, and runs were pretty good; but nothing noticeably different from my other weapons (yes yes I know, sample size hurr durr). With attachments and such, I was able to get the ArMatrix stuff up close to 70% eff, and my normal weaps are around 64%. I didn't notice any real difference in loot composition.

My main gripe (with L weaps in general I guess) is that the damned things last maybe 90 mins, at least the lower ones I was using. Probably great for a casual hunter, but if I'm going to burn 2-3 per hunt, it's just not feasible. Especially since I'm not usually on Caly, where the good supply is. If you want to go to another planet, what are you supposed to do, carry around 50 of them with you? No thanks, I think I'm sticking with UL for now.

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I agree with you. More you hunt, more you need a UL weapon. Loot quantity is same whatever you use, only composition can change (if we can trust MA). So, after only math count. You hunt sometimes per week, L item is better. You grind several hours per days, UL weapon is needed .

For a long period of time dmg/pec was king and still is to a lower extend then before. Considering that Armatrix weapons have a great dmg/pec compared to other looted ot crafted weapon, some of them even bought at 130-140% mu have the same dmg/pec as UL weapons. Too bad that weapon compare is not updated for higher lvl rifles and pistols to have exact numbers. CRAFTERS it is in your own interest to update those weapons decay so players know what they are buying.

I posted this example before:

MarCorp Kallous-7 UL + Omegaton A105 Improved 50.1674 dmg/sec 2.954 dmg/pec

ArMatrix LR-40 (L) at 125% + Omegaton A105 Improved 53.9320 dmg/sec 2.967 dmg/pec

and when somebody takes the time to update the decay of LR-55 (most sold atm, at around 134% mu) i bet it would stand at same level with M83 Predator.

I understand the frustration of the UL wepons holders atm, this is a big change that could lower their weapons value, it all depends of the abundance of these Armatrix bp's drops i guess at the same time for those that use L weapons to skill up this this is a great option. Granted with an UL weapon you got the posibility to attach enhancers increasing your dps and dmg/pec (or lower it).

Its all supply and demand. As demand goes down supply will follow. Watch markets a few years and u start seeing trends. This fad will wear out over time as many others did in past eventually. When it does and markup lowers then its time to buy.