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Return penalty for using crit buffs

Me Really Never said:
i havent seen a single log that shows that return with buffs is worse, long term, on a mob that is not longtooth or eomon...
and even then the logs show only the return with buffs. there is not a comparable one with same gun, armor and mob which shows better returns without buffs on a comparable sample size.
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About log without mob event :

Are you serious ? You try to tell me : system do not work same as other mob on LT or Eomon ? Where you hear the system is different for these mobs ? If i trust MA, % return should be the same on all mob !!

By the way, i think this is legit to ask to MA to check the system, especially when MA ask for who want invest 5 000$ on tool or vehicule or estate, a guarantee for a correct system. This game is based on trust, actually this suspicion about it.
 
Justine said:
About log without mob event :

Are you serious ? You try to tell me : system do not work same as other mob on LT or Eomon ? Where you hear the system is different for these mobs ? If i trust MA, % return should be the same on all mob !!

By the way, i think this is legit to ask to MA to check the system, especially when MA ask for who want invest 5 000$ on tool or vehicule or estate, a guarantee for a correct system. This game is based on trust, actually this suspicion about it.
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i thought it was common knowledge, that heavily hunted mobs have a lot higher swings than not heavily hunted mobs... especially you should know that as you are mainly on cyrene, or at least were.
and there is no other mob more hunted than those event mobs so they should have the highest possible swings... and that means that 10% or even 15% tt return difference over 10k kills is nothing uncommon.
 
Justine hits all the right points. For me, it was never about profiting, it's about what entertainment value I'm getting for my money. I'm quite happy to spend money on a game I enjoy, within reason. When $300 only lasts a week or two, that game better be providing something phenomenal; and this game doesn't.

Personally, I have never been in the black. Prior to 2.0 I did have a few months of profits (MU profits, not TT profits) where I had finally figured some things out, but the game has never given me back anywhere even close to what I've put in to it. I feel this is an important point.

To get *anything* in this game, even the smallest global, you have to lose it first. When I look at my logs it's just a continuous cycle of "lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, here's a little bit back, lose, lose lose, little back, etc". When I step back and look at it like that, I wonder what the hell I'm doing here. Probably a lot of the short-lived players just figure this out sooner.

I fully understand that MA can't just go around giving everyone more than they put in, but they could certainly work it out to where every now and then based on the player's input they get back something that keeps them interested in playing. Even if it's something that could only be used in the game, maybe the potential to loot nice player-bound items or something. I dunno, I'm sure lots of people would hate the idea, but since there's no reason to strive to be an uber any longer, I really think MA needs to rethink the whole system.
 
Me Really Never said:
i thought it was common knowledge, that heavily hunted mobs have a lot higher swings than not heavily hunted mobs... especially you should know that as you are mainly on cyrene, or at least were.
and there is no other mob more hunted than those event mobs so they should have the highest possible swings... and that means that 10% or even 15% tt return difference over 10k kills is nothing uncommon.
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Humm your common knowledge is maybe on your mind. I lost too on Cyrene, probably more than on LT. Ma said 97% return with 100kped or more cycle. I'll say ok, but i saw it's not for me and i spent these 100k ped.
I said to myself, ok probably i have to use a better gear, buff for reach this return. It seems it's not enought. So what ?

If i got the best gear and i can't reach this 97%, why to play ?
If MA put rare items like rings, scope, laser with buff, isn't for get an advantage ?
If the answer is yes : why this is not the case ? That's why MA have to check if there is no bug on loot 2.0 and that's why this thread exist. Things are not clear !
If the answer is no : why this is rare, why MA don't replace skills for these items on reward ? Why it cost more to use these items ?

Or you admit, this is a hidden casino not a game.
 
Justine said:
Humm your common knowledge is maybe on your mind. I lost too on Cyrene, probably more than on LT. Ma said 97% return with 100kped or more cycle. I'll say ok, but i saw it's not for me and i spent these 100k ped.
I said to myself, ok probably i have to use a better gear, buff for reach this return. It seems it's not enought. So what ?

If i got the best gear and i can't reach this 97%, why to play ?
If MA put rare items like rings, scope, laser with buff, isn't for get an advantage ?
If the answer is yes : why this is not the case ? That's why MA have to check if there is no bug on loot 2.0 and that's why this thread exist. Things are not clear !
If the answer is no : why this is rare, why MA don't replace skills for these items on reward ? Why it cost more to use these items ?

Or you admit, this is a hidden casino not a game.
Click to expand...

They showed statistics that people that cycled 100k or more has a mean return of 97%. This doesn't mean that every person grinding 100k ped or more should expect 97%. If it was median 97% then it would be more appropriate to expect this but still no guarantees.

But if you look on it on the bright side - since mean for 100k cycler is 97% and you receive less than this then some other person received more than it :)
 
Baldurn said:
They showed statistics that people that cycled 100k or more has a mean return of 97%. This doesn't mean that every person grinding 100k ped or more should expect 97%. If it was median 97% then it would be more appropriate to expect this but still no guarantees.

But if you look on it on the bright side - since mean for 100k cycler is 97% and you receive less than this then some other person received more than it :)
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Developer Notes #13 - Loot 2.0 Statistics
The MindArk design team has been closely monitoring the impact of Loot 2.0, recently implemented in Version Update 15.15. We have also been following the many interesting and valuable discussions on community forums and thought it would be helpful to those discussions to share some hunting return statistics.

Net return for all hunting activity since VU 15.15: 94.71%
Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%
Net return for hunters cycling at least 10,000 PED since VU 15.15: 94.79%
Net return for accounts created in 2017, cycling at least 100 PED since VU 15.15: 94.87%
Net return for accounts created in 2017: 93.47%
These return rates are very close to MindArk’s targets for Loot 2.0, and indicate that the changes implemented are working as intended. Of course, we will continue to monitor, tweak and improve moving forward.

Happy hunting!
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You are right or wrong.
When i read :

"Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%"

For me, i understand all hunters who cycled at least 100,000ped is 97.29% net return. I don't read AVERAGE return for hunter who cycled at least 100,000 PED is 97.29%

MA must give us more precision... At this state you can understand what you want this these poor information. We can only trust players who shared logs.
 
Justine said:
You are right or wrong.
When i read :

"Net return for hunters cycling at least 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%"

For me, i understand all hunters who cycled at least 100,000ped is 97.29% net return. I don't read AVERAGE return for hunter who cycled at least 100,000 PED is 97.29%

MA must give us more precision... At this state you can understand what you want this these poor information. We can only trust players who shared logs.
Click to expand...

They are describing the population of hunters cycling at least 100,000 ped. When you describe a population then the average is mean by default. If you are interested to learn more about statistics I can recommend a course at university :)
 
Whatever the loot return was and is now, it's not the problem.

Main concern in my opinion are these:

1) What is the point to skill or get better items if the loot return is calculated from your costs ?

2) MA changed behaviour of items with loot 2.0:
Crit items gave a benefit in loot return and now they don't (they could have lowered it, but just delete it is pure wrong imo).

3) (Resulting from 1 & 2)) These changes make me lost my trust in MA
I don't think i will invest anymore in future.
 
Ime said:
Whatever the loot return was and is now, it's not the problem.

Main concern in my opinion are these:

1) What is the point to skill or get better items if the loot return is calculated from your costs ?

2) MA changed behaviour of items with loot 2.0:
Crit items gave a benefit in loot return and now they don't (they could have lowered it, but just delete it is pure wrong imo).

3) (Resulting from 1 & 2)) These changes make me lost my trust in MA
I don't think i will invest anymore in future.
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the advantage of better equipment isb eing able to hunt bigger stuff which "should" be an opportunity to receive more / better MU items.
you wont be looting an uber gun from daikibas for example. the tt return should be the same throughout the board though and that is the case. this is not a normal mmorpg where you strive for greatness and best equipment and everyone else can suck ass.
this is a game with lots of different levels where people can play the amount of money they are willing to spend on their entertainment value. someone who is only capable of 100 ped per months should have the same tt % return than someone who can spend 100k peds a months. i mean whats the point in gambling on ep4 all the fucking time? they dont expect to make any tt profit with it hopefully. they are gambling. and big mobs like eomons are the equivalent to ep4. its gambling. simple as that.
more money just buys you more opportunities. but it doesnt and shouldnt give you instant easy brainless profits. cos that cant work. simple economics.
 
Justine said:
Humm your common knowledge is maybe on your mind. I lost too on Cyrene, probably more than on LT. Ma said 97% return with 100kped or more cycle. I'll say ok, but i saw it's not for me and i spent these 100k ped.
I said to myself, ok probably i have to use a better gear, buff for reach this return. It seems it's not enought. So what ?

If i got the best gear and i can't reach this 97%, why to play ?
If MA put rare items like rings, scope, laser with buff, isn't for get an advantage ?
If the answer is yes : why this is not the case ? That's why MA have to check if there is no bug on loot 2.0 and that's why this thread exist. Things are not clear !
If the answer is no : why this is rare, why MA don't replace skills for these items on reward ? Why it cost more to use these items ?

Or you admit, this is a hidden casino not a game.
Click to expand...

why do you think that money entitles you for free peds? if you want that just invest ur gear money and bankroll into clds and auds. then u got what you want.
 
Me Really Never said:
the advantage of better equipment isb eing able to hunt bigger stuff which "should" be an opportunity to receive more / better MU items.
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Not in my opinion. Remember the new viridian guns ? There were some for all range of level.

Me Really Never said:
you wont be looting an uber gun from daikibas for example.
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Yes, but it's not the subject as we are talking about tt return.

Me Really Never said:
the tt return should be the same throughout the board though and that is the case. this is not a normal mmorpg where you strive for greatness and best equipment and everyone else can suck ass.
this is a game with lots of different levels where people can play the amount of money they are willing to spend on their entertainment value. someone who is only capable of 100 ped per months should have the same tt % return than someone who can spend 100k peds a months. i mean whats the point in gambling on ep4 all the fucking time? they dont expect to make any tt profit with it hopefully. they are gambling. and big mobs like eomons are the equivalent to ep4. its gambling. simple as that.
more money just buys you more opportunities. but it doesnt and shouldnt give you instant easy brainless profits. cos that cant work. simple economics.
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These statements only reflects your opinion. In my opinion there should be gambling possibilities and possibilities to get a better return % (as we had before).
And once again it's not about brainless high tt return or not, it's about changing rules and items behaviour which leads to breaking trust.
 
Ime said:
Not in my opinion. Remember the new viridian guns ? There were some for all range of level.


Yes, but it's not the subject as we are talking about tt return.



These statements only reflects your opinion. In my opinion there should be gambling possibilities and possibilities to get a better return % (as we had before).
And once again it's not about brainless high tt return or not, it's about changing rules and items behaviour which leads to breaking trust.
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well the other possibility was to let the system as it was and let the guys with 110% tt returns bleed the system out until the game is dead...
and there are more than enough opprtunities to buy better chances for profitting. but the margin in huntign is small. but you could invest in rare UL item bps like beast or similar to profit off of this while still playing inside one of the main professions.
or you could hunt markup.. as it always was and always will be cos thats the way to profit in hunting. off of other players.
in the end: this is a game and games always get updates and changes. there a reason why investments here are risky, although many people dont want to see it.
 
Baldurn said:
They are describing the population of hunters cycling at least 100,000 ped. When you describe a population then the average is mean by default. If you are interested to learn more about statistics I can recommend a course at university :)
Click to expand...

No need i should be a stupid blond girl. Only MA can clarify this.
 
Me Really Never said:
the advantage of better equipment isb eing able to hunt bigger stuff which "should" be an opportunity to receive more / better MU items.
Click to expand...

And actually this is the big advantage with the new system: dps isnt bound to ped shot anymore:
So there might be a lvl 60gun with 70dps but only cycling like an old day 20dps gun.

I know many hunters that have the skills for big gear but dont use it because they cant handly the cost of it. So for them there is no point in skilling anymore. With this new system and maybe the guns to come there might be a new reason for them. e.g. like MRN said in getting rare loots on big mobs only huntable with skills but at same cost/time.

I like a system that would work like this. Of course there are problems with a few things like uber guns from old days but well: they wont be bad then. They will just let you cycle more/time and skill faster. Some people might still want to do that.
Another "problem": If you see a 50 PED Global on a certain mob you dont know if this was a rly bad or a rly good loot because it depends on the gun used. Only way to solve this (and we wont like it): make old guns not worth to use anymore...
And yes smth like this is allways a problem and is followed by loose of trust from old players. But as some said before I do think that such a system would be more atractive to a wider range of playerbase in the future.
But actually it happened before: Check prices for Korss H400 UL or stuff like that. Just wondering why they still bring out new stuff like adj DOA, if my theory is true...

So there might be a way to use those crit items again in the future. Let's make an example:
TT return % is "fix" on a certain mob with sometimes a good MU item. You have 2 setups with same dps, but 1 is cheaper to use because of crits (like allways have been). So you have MU-waves, lets say every 1h or better 100 mobs there comes an item worth the hunt. You cycle less with the cheaper equipment to get there so you lost the same % but less TT PED until you got the MU item and you need to cover less with its MU. Might be the difference between loosing and winning.
Actually this works only with smth like shrooms or ELM guns and not ESI or Oils where the TT might be affected by the amount cycled. But might be a working system. Actually, this should work allready with ELM waves on migration....
edit: actually this could work without MU but with TT Return-event as well - at least a tiny little bit, up to 99,99% return :p

So problem solved: Crit items still have their value, Old items will become the gambling items for high TT hunting but alot PED to cycle until MU payback. Be happy again. Just because those items wont let you TT-profit anymore they might still be worth if used wisely.
 
Me Really Never said:
well the other possibility was to let the system as it was and let the guys with 110% tt returns bleed the system out until the game is dead...
and there are more than enough opprtunities to buy better chances for profitting. but the margin in huntign is small. but you could invest in rare UL item bps like beast or similar to profit off of this while still playing inside one of the main professions.
or you could hunt markup.. as it always was and always will be cos thats the way to profit in hunting. off of other players.
in the end: this is a game and games always get updates and changes. there a reason why investments here are risky, although many people dont want to see it.
Click to expand...

No it could be changed, but not in the way it was handled.
Maybe reducing the advantage the buff gave (but not annihilate it) and/or introducing decay on rings.

Giving back in loot fap decay and armor decay is a poor change too as in my opinion it just makes many skills useless (or almost). Once again it could have been done to reduce net return between uber/noob but aiming same return % for all regardless skills is the opposite of what MA has been marketing for years.
 
girtsn said:
the formula including the correlation was a choice. if going for radical, why not make every weapon around same efficiency (which is quite true for most of them) even more so "allowing space for future improvements"? anyway the main point was - as opposed to making all crit buffs exactly same crap and not including them in efficiency at all.
Click to expand...
Now you want them to be more radical? If there's a shitstorm now, imagine the shitstorm if they made all weapons equal. Most weapons being around the same efficiency (~60-65) is because we had most weapons around the same dpp as well (~2.9 effective dpp unamped). Again, all weapons are just as eco as before in relation to each other, no change there whatsoever. They just narrowed the actual impact it has on tt return down to 7% difference between the weapons with 0% efficiency and the ones with 100% efficiency. With the old dpp model the gap had become too wide between the top and bottom for it to be sustainable in the longer perspective.

Since the crit buffs were the biggest reason for this huge gap in dpp, that's why they did not include them in the efficiency calculation. Instead they now affect loot composition, which still is a big advantage (yet a more strategic approach is needed as opposed to semi-afk mindless grinding being enough) and can be an even bigger advantage with more markups. This they already started taking steps towards by starting to re-establish the long lost connection between the three professions (pushing weapon market back towards crafting is one example). I'm sure there's more to come to stimulate the market even further. Hint MA; re-emphasizing end products (fashion, apartments etc).

However, I agree that this has put a dent in a lot of people's faith in investing those hundreds of k's in here again and it has left us with a rather sour taste in general across the playerbase. Especially when just a few months ago crit buff weapons (the Viridians) were handed out as event prizes, clearly feeding off the current crit buff hype and the type of impact it had in 1.0. An overhaul like this wouldn't have been needed if they wouldn't have got carried away with the huge shortterm cash cow strongboxes and crit buff rings turned out to be. Hopefully they learned from this and start leaning back towards the longterm mindset they used to have. Definitely looks like they are back on track with 2.0.
 
Ime said:
No it could be changed, but not in the way it was handled.
Maybe reducing the advantage the buff gave (but not annihilate it) and/or introducing decay on rings.

Giving back in loot fap decay and armor decay is a poor change too as in my opinion it just makes many skills useless (or almost). Once again it could have been done to reduce net return between uber/noob but aiming same return % for all regardless skills is the opposite of what MA has been marketing for years.
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the problem is that all you people seem to think that just having money entitles you to earn more off of other players. cos when you get 5% more tt return with uber equip this 5% do get paid by other players. if its 10% the 10% are paid by other players. so why should people with smaller bankrolls even play the game when they dont have ANY chance at all vs people who are able to jsut buy their way up? this shouldnt be pay to win and its MA who stated that game knowledge is important now. money doesnt buy you game knowledge..
 
Me Really Never said:
the advantage of better equipment isb eing able to hunt bigger stuff which "should" be an opportunity to receive more / better MU items.
you wont be looting an uber gun from daikibas for example. the tt return should be the same throughout the board though and that is the case. this is not a normal mmorpg where you strive for greatness and best equipment and everyone else can suck ass.
this is a game with lots of different levels where people can play the amount of money they are willing to spend on their entertainment value. someone who is only capable of 100 ped per months should have the same tt % return than someone who can spend 100k peds a months. i mean whats the point in gambling on ep4 all the fucking time? they dont expect to make any tt profit with it hopefully. they are gambling. and big mobs like eomons are the equivalent to ep4. its gambling. simple as that.
more money just buys you more opportunities. but it doesnt and shouldnt give you instant easy brainless profits. cos that cant work. simple economics.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about that. You focus only on profit TT. This is not the case of this thread !
Why the high end gear and the best buffs do not give a better return than a player without that !!
All players, if they play at there level should have the same TT return, like MA said around 94%. But players with the best gear should have the 97% return !
It make sense for me to invest ped and time on my Avatar for see a beeter return.

why do you think that money entitles you for free peds? if you want that just invest ur gear money and bankroll into clds and auds. then u got what you want.
Click to expand...

Maybe because more you deposit and more you play, more MA can win money ? Again you focus on profit, this is a game for me, i still have money in CAC 40 and Wall street.

But you should be confused on what this game is for you. Sometimes you say this is an entertainement, sometimes you say this is a lottery... This is not the same thing.

You say, better equipment give you better MU or loot composition here. Strange 1 week ago on Cyrene chat you said loot composition do not change, this is the same thing, the only one condition is to use a maxed weapon ? I'm wrong ?

But again this thread is for buff's effect and how they change your loot.
MA said on this thread there is no change, same % return. In fact this is not the case and it will be great if MA can check and tell us or repair if something is wrong.

This is simple, we don't need to see other flamware about TT return, this is not the case, but it seems you won't understand.
 
Me Really Never said:
the problem is that all you people seem to think that just having money entitles you to earn more off of other players. cos when you get 5% more tt return with uber equip this 5% do get paid by other players. if its 10% the 10% are paid by other players. so why should people with smaller bankrolls even play the game when they dont have ANY chance at all vs people who are able to jsut buy their way up? this shouldnt be pay to win and its MA who stated that game knowledge is important now. money doesnt buy you game knowledge..
Click to expand...

Well this is how the game was and shared by MA to all (talking about game knowledge).
I'd have no problem if the game was in loot 2.0 since beginning but changing all radicaly is destroying all trust. What will they change in a month ?
And i have no problem with some change to reduce the spread return rate. It's just that this change is too drastic.
 
Justine said:
I agree with you about that. You focus only on profit TT. This is not the case of this thread !
Why the high end gear and the best buffs do not give a better return than a player without that !!
All players, if they play at there level should have the same TT return, like MA said around 94%. But players with the best gear should have the 97% return !
It make sense for me to invest ped and time on my Avatar for see a beeter return.



Maybe because more you deposit and more you play, more MA can win money ? Again you focus on profit, this is a game for me, i still have money in CAC 40 and Wall street.

But you should be confused on what this game is for you. Sometimes you say this is an entertainement, sometimes you say this is a lottery... This is not the same thing.

You say, better equipment give you better MU or loot composition here. Strange 1 week ago on Cyrene chat you said loot composition do not change, this is the same thing, the only one condition is to use a maxed weapon ? I'm wrong ?

But again this thread is for buff's effect and how they change your loot.
MA said on this thread there is no change, same % return. In fact this is not the case and it will be great if MA can check and tell us or repair if something is wrong.

This is simple, we don't need to see other flamware about TT return, this is not the case, but it seems you won't understand.
Click to expand...

first of all: when its about the effect of buffs on returns then sure as hell returns are part of the topic...
and what i said on chat is that the loot composition is always the same, no matter what weapon you use. the only thing is that there is some kind of "optimal" amount needed for a kill. possibly 3dpp to make it easy.
now lets say you hunt 60 hp mobs. that means optimal amount for a kill would be 20 pec. now my tests have shown that when your cost to kill exceeds the optimal cost to kill by roughly > 200% you will only receive shrapnel in loot. i havent seen any steps inbetween this. that means that when your cost to kill is 40-50 pec or higher for this mob you will receive shrapnel only in 99% of cases. this tests also has shown that evades are part of the return as the shot done goes into the cost to kill.
that means when you use a 25 pec per shot weapon on a 20 pec per kill mob and it evades once then you will get up to 50 pec return but it will be shrapnel only. if you are below roughly twice the cost per kill then your loot composition will always be the same longterm, no matter if maxed or unamped or whatever. its only about the cost to kill.

sorry for this drift-off in loot composition, but you mentioned it.

now the important part is higher dpp lets you collect more loot with MU than you would get with lower dpp. and that should be the key.
 
Ime said:
Well this is how the game was and shared by MA to all (talking about game knowledge).
I'd have no problem if the game was in loot 2.0 since beginning but changing all radicaly is destroying all trust. What will they change in a month ?
And i have no problem with some change to reduce the spread return rate. It's just that this change is too drastic.
Click to expand...

there has been another big change to the loot system in jan 2013 where the crying was big as well. and still most of the playerbase stays
 
Me Really Never said:
there has been another big change to the loot system in jan 2013 where the crying was big as well. and still most of the playerbase stays
Click to expand...

That's it : the player base stays when there have been much more people online. I don't see it as a success.
But we are changing the thread subject.
 
After reading 21 pages of how it became impossible to profit now, I wonder how silly those grinders are.
They find themselves the ubers of the game, and now all feel wronged.

Well, I just wonder, have those high "investers" never heard of CLD's???

It's so freakingly easy to profit.
Buying 1mil ped worth of gear to make a few measly ped tt profit by grinding?
1 mil ped could have bought you 1000 CLDs. Giving you a garuanteed profit without making one click.
I guess all those item investers just have bet on the wrong horse.

But the discussion about guaranteed profit should then actually also be extended to those cld holders. As they (myself) included also suck the game dry.

But ah well, you won't hear me complain as they provide the "tt profit" for me to go on...in my own pace.

Sure, CLDs can crash or be nerfed as well, so far from risk free just as any other item in the game. But so is entropia, don't invest if you're not prepared to lose.

And to add, loot 2.0 didn't make the loot worse or better. I might even think it improved for me. So it surely isn't as bad for everybody as some claim.
 
Me Really Never said:
now the important part is higher dpp lets you collect more loot with MU than you would get with lower dpp. and that should be the key.
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I'm not sure I understand. You said you haven't seen any steps in loot quality except for above about twice the 'expected' kill cost - and for that you need to be shooting lowish hp mobs on one shot kill, but with an evade or two which takes you to two or max three shots. I've seen what you see there too.

For this thread, aren't we looking at the other end of the spectrum - hoping to get more crits that lower the cost to kill and the loot alg tries to throw the best possible mu at us, even though the tt amount should be lower in accordance with the lower kill cost?
Has anybody been getting significantly better mu stuff on the few mobs they kill where there is a crit? It needs to be one with few evades as well and the crit mostly used on real damage that reduces the kill cost.

In other words - if you get to kill a "1 ped" mob for 80 pecs, what is the super-duper better mu loot you can expect, or does it need to match up with a multi-loot that might get you an esi or so? Are we in DNA territory, or short boards, or whatever lowerish tt loot has good mu?
If it's a 5 ped mob or more, is there going to be a noticeable difference in the extra crits from having buffs?
 
jetsina said:
I'm not sure I understand. You said you haven't seen any steps in loot quality except for above about twice the 'expected' kill cost - and for that you need to be shooting lowish hp mobs on one shot kill, but with an evade or two which takes you to two or max three shots. I've seen what you see there too.

For this thread, aren't we looking at the other end of the spectrum - hoping to get more crits that lower the cost to kill and the loot alg tries to throw the best possible mu at us, even though the tt amount should be lower in accordance with the lower kill cost?
Has anybody been getting significantly better mu stuff on the few mobs they kill where there is a crit? It needs to be one with few evades as well and the crit mostly used on real damage that reduces the kill cost.

In other words - if you get to kill a "1 ped" mob for 80 pecs, what is the super-duper better mu loot you can expect, or does it need to match up with a multi-loot that might get you an esi or so? Are we in DNA territory, or short boards, or whatever lowerish tt loot has good mu?
If it's a 5 ped mob or more, is there going to be a noticeable difference in the extra crits from having buffs?
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yeah you missed what i wanted to say. higher dpp buys you more tickets to get better MU stuff for the same price a low dpp weapon does.
an example: qaffaz on toulan drop exactly one qaffaz hide on basically every kill. so when you get enough peds to kill 1000 of those with a high dpp weapon then u get about 970 of those hides. the same amount of money would just let you kill maybe 900 or less with a low dpp weapon meaning you would only get maybe 875 hides for the same amount of money. that means with the high dpp weapon you get more MU value per money used. of course this doesnt apply to every mob. but thats the point. u got to figure out where to play your odds right and dont just hunt anything and then wonder why it sucks. play smart.
 
Me Really Never said:
u got to figure out where to play your odds right and dont just hunt anything and then wonder why it sucks. play smart.
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Ah, your example helps, thank you. I didn't know there were any mobs which fairly reliably drop 1 per kill of something, but there I certainly see an advantage to higher dpp (and still a reason to use a finisher). I guess it also works if some nice mu loot usually comes as a small part of the total loot too, so you get more tickets for the same price, as you say.
 
wizz said:
After reading 21 pages of how it became impossible to profit now, I wonder how silly those grinders are.
They find themselves the ubers of the game, and now all feel wronged.

Well, I just wonder, have those high "investers" never heard of CLD's???

It's so freakingly easy to profit.
Buying 1mil ped worth of gear to make a few measly ped tt profit by grinding?
1 mil ped could have bought you 1000 CLDs. Giving you a garuanteed profit without making one click.
I guess all those item investers just have bet on the wrong horse.

But the discussion about guaranteed profit should then actually also be extended to those cld holders. As they (myself) included also suck the game dry.

But ah well, you won't hear me complain as they provide the "tt profit" for me to go on...in my own pace.

Sure, CLDs can crash or be nerfed as well, so far from risk free just as any other item in the game. But so is entropia, don't invest if you're not prepared to lose.

And to add, loot 2.0 didn't make the loot worse or better. I might even think it improved for me. So it surely isn't as bad for everybody as some claim.
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CLD is a high risk investment. You are basically buying stock in MA and hoping MA doesn't go under. If you think somehow this is "smart" and guaranteed profit, well..I've got a bridge to sell too...
 
Jhereg said:
CLD is a high risk investment. You are basically buying stock in MA and hoping MA doesn't go under. If you think somehow this is "smart" and guaranteed profit, well..I've got a bridge to sell too...
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Yes, it was a high risk investment. As are items like rings or guns.
Hence I said, don't invest if you can't afford or don't want to lose it.

But at least for me it has been a nice way to profit. As were the items for some grinders.

But if items got nerfed to prevent guaranteed profit, should CLDs not get nerfed?
I guess not as that would hurt the entire playerbase, while loot 2.0 only hurted the lucky few.
 
Fairly sure crits dont improve loot quality, as it doesnt actually effect the efficientcy of the weapon overall..

2 crits 1 normal shot, expected kill cost 1 ped, cost 54 pec... returned 40 pec shrap.
same mob, 4 misses, 6 normal shots, 1.8 ped kill cost, 61 pec shrap return

just as examples but not made up.
 
wizz said:
Yes, it was a high risk investment. As are items like rings or guns.
Hence I said, don't invest if you can't afford or don't want to lose it.

But at least for me it has been a nice way to profit. As were the items for some grinders.

But if items got nerfed to prevent guaranteed profit, should CLDs not get nerfed?
I guess not as that would hurt the entire playerbase, while loot 2.0 only hurted the lucky few.
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Wouldn't nerfing CLD do the opposite of hurting the entire playerbase, seeing as it would mean higher return rates for the players? (assuming MA don't pocket the difference)

although I highly doubt MA would ever make such a move...
 
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