Return penalty for using crit buffs

So Easter eggs were worth 20-40 ped in tt return before update. Many people bought into that. I still have a large number that are now next to worthless.

Changing how something like this fundamentally works after people bought into the system does tend to cause a good amount of disillusionment for those who thinks MA broke their trust or even betrayed them.

Faith in the system is also important, players need stability to be willing to invest.

This is really more than anything, it was always a toss up for me. I knew, that if I bought boxes versus ammo packs i'd have a chance at getting some X-Stims or buffs that would make my hunts better TT wise. This was the object of boxes for me, along with skill-pills to raise my levels and acquire guns that could do better dps and marginally better dpp. Rings......oh rings, 4k boxes to loot 2x Adj HP rings...well now lets just ignore rings as a possibility.

Currently, what's the point? Buy them to get the skill pills to level up where more DPS means you lose peds faster, marginally better dpp so I can 'save' (see: not lose) maybe $20/mo, while still losing $480/mo. Also, if I loot an amazing ring (See Perfected Ares) the benefits aren't what they used to be. The pills serve no purpose as I am not in a rush to increase my overall cycle, leading to more losses while saving a marginal percentage overall (Save $20/mo, but cycle at a higher rate, still losing more NET value).

The only purpose to these rings and buffs now is to be able to finish hunting challenges at a lesser cost. Which is not a really amazing End-Game benefit...
 
The question is rather which is within 2%? All people online? :rolleyes:
Interesting post to see that everyone is impacting at different levels at the same time
TT return or TT + markup comes back to the same thing right now, because MA is not stuffing rotten items that sells miserly, that they put things that they want to trade.
regulars depositors have seen their expenses reduce ? this is the real question after the 2.0
The good stats will only be on the MA account but for the last year I think. They want too much
:grouphug::grouphug:
 
I think the point is not being forced to buy strongboxes. It's about buying them because players want what is in them and then having those things change into something else months later. If I buy a cow I wouldn't want it to turn into a chicken in 3 months :laugh:

thats why when you invest you dont invest in something virtual and especially not in a game... cos after all thats what it is. a game.
 
Well one scam definition I read is "plan for making money that involves tricking people".

-Mindark stated a number of times that the loot system has always remained the same since the beginning and it would not be changed.
-Mindark has stated loot 1.0 was a dmg/pec system, and loot 2.0 was a move away from this.
-Storage boxes were marketed and hyped by Mindark on this forum and other locations.
-The item most players wanted from these boxes was a focus blow ring to improve dmg/pec.

Changing the loot system - which they said they have never done and would never do - to nerf these rings after a large amount of ped has been deposited to acquire them; I think alot of players will feel tricked by this cause of events.

can you give a specific link to where they say that they will never change the loot system?
 
This is really more than anything, it was always a toss up for me. I knew, that if I bought boxes versus ammo packs i'd have a chance at getting some X-Stims or buffs that would make my hunts better TT wise. This was the object of boxes for me, along with skill-pills to raise my levels and acquire guns that could do better dps and marginally better dpp. Rings......oh rings, 4k boxes to loot 2x Adj HP rings...well now lets just ignore rings as a possibility.

Currently, what's the point? Buy them to get the skill pills to level up where more DPS means you lose peds faster, marginally better dpp so I can 'save' (see: not lose) maybe $20/mo, while still losing $480/mo. Also, if I loot an amazing ring (See Perfected Ares) the benefits aren't what they used to be. The pills serve no purpose as I am not in a rush to increase my overall cycle, leading to more losses while saving a marginal percentage overall (Save $20/mo, but cycle at a higher rate, still losing more NET value).

The only purpose to these rings and buffs now is to be able to finish hunting challenges at a lesser cost. Which is not a really amazing End-Game benefit...

Agree up too last part, rings and buffs still come in play for events.
Im doing mission for evade atm but dont even know why i bother since it will only lower my killcost and reward for that is at time being absolutely zero.

The problem with this "fix" is that its a MA designed system so if you reach a certain point you can never better yourself since stated killcost determins your loot and you can be damn certain it as a CAP.
Formula going like this.
Killcost = loot - MAs cuts (smaller depending on effiency) - minus mob jackpott pool (any given mob seems to be collecting alot more then before)
The problem with this one its by design so even if your at 90% effiency (highest possible ingame) adding an item wont help becauce there is a manual CAP.
3.25 dpp will most likely yield same as 3.7 dpp over time.
Killing a mob 1k HP with 3.7dpp is a 2.7 ped cost while doing it with 3.25 is 3.07 ped but payout structure migth still be the same in % returned from mob(most likely capped at <99%).
 
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They introduced items (crit buffs) that improved dpp. They also said they would probably add decay to them balancing the dpp increase. This is what was sold and incredibly still being sold if people are unaware. Of course it created a hype, that was their expectation. When god's we kind of trust sell, they can do that perfectly.

What the crit buff owners got after the update is dpp wise useless pieces of pixels (and my stats as well as other players behavior avoiding to use them seems to indicate they harm returns even).
Did they bother to include the crit buffs in the efficiency calculation? Of course not, why would they.
One of the best examples of this is the viridian kind of guns as recent event prizes. With the dpp improvement of the 1% fb it was comparable to modmerc dpp wise. After the change, it became less dpp and likely lowering the return at least for me + it got a lower efficiency. Nice for an event prize that was introduced when they were probably already thinking about loot 2.0 - another shining point of scam like behavior.

If we think in the pre loot 2.0 terms, this is like taking all the existing guns and then one day making them all equal. Kind of what they did you would say? No. Imk2 for some reason got a special status (highest efficiency) - the rest indeed kindof are all the same. Why did imk2 owners got their "investment" covered while more recent spenders on crit buffs and most of the guns completely screwed?
Completely opposed to crit buff items which used to cost more than a number of imk2's (and suppose MA knew this). And they were a much later, relevant "investment".

Thanks a lot for all the fish they said.
 
ofc MA needs a cut of it
but they will have to invent a way to get more MU or this game is doomed
since nobody can play long time with 90% all the time with high dps
old days you lost peds to skill up that's fine you are working on getting better tt return
still doing ok with EST imk2 and a106 and mod ares but yes losing small amount
nearly maxed 107dam98 hit
 
They introduced items (crit buffs) that improved dpp. They also said they would probably add decay to them balancing the dpp increase. This is what was sold and incredibly still being sold if people are unaware. Of course it created a hype, that was their expectation. When god's we kind of trust sell, they can do that perfectly.

What the crit buff owners got after the update is dpp wise useless pieces of pixels (and my stats as well as other players behavior avoiding to use them seems to indicate they harm returns even).
Did they bother to include the crit buffs in the efficiency calculation? Of course not, why would they.
One of the best examples of this is the viridian kind of guns as recent event prizes. With the dpp improvement of the 1% fb it was comparable to modmerc dpp wise. After the change, it became less dpp and likely lowering the return at least for me + it got a lower efficiency. Nice for an event prize that was introduced when they were probably already thinking about loot 2.0 - another shining point of scam like behavior.

If we think in the pre loot 2.0 terms, this is like taking all the existing guns and then one day making them all equal. Kind of what they did you would say? No. Imk2 for some reason got a special status (highest efficiency) - the rest indeed kindof are all the same. Why did imk2 owners got their "investment" covered while more recent spenders on crit buffs and most of the guns completely screwed?
Completely opposed to crit buff items which used to cost more than a number of imk2's (and suppose MA knew this). And they were a much later, relevant "investment".

Thanks a lot for all the fish they said.

ill explain it once again to you. third time now.

crit items now work the way they were intended to work in the first place. when you got lots of crit damage and crit chance opposed to someone who doesnt have it then for example on a 1k hp mob you can get 115 loot events while the guy without it can only get 100 or maybe 95 loot events. the average loot on each event is different. the guy with the crit has lower cost to kill per mob so he gets lower average return per mob.
the other guy has higher cost to kill per mob so he gets higher average loot per mob. the return % is the same (ideally, we dont include swings here now as it is to make a point).

BUT now as the biggest factor, basically like always, to profit on a run you are going to need multipliers. now who do you think has the better chance for more multiplier, the guy with 115 loot events or the one with 95 loot events, while both spending the exact same amount of peds?
As you dont seem to be clear on this ill give you the answer: its the guy with more loot events. sure the other guy can get lucky and hit a big one. but his chance of doing so is smaller. so crit items still give an advantage. and the advantage is exactly like it should be. i mean it shouldve been obvious that the easy peasy money printing mashinery shouldnt work like that. at least for everyone who has a brain it shouldve been obvious.

now you complain about your returns being 2% worse than before. well, look at what you hunted. mostly eomons. first of all its incredibly stupid to hunt eomons, or any event mob at all for that matter.
but a lot of people hunt eomons. and as it has always been, the more people hunt a mob, the bigger the loot swings are. take atrox, or kerbs. the loot swings are ridiculously high due to the high amount of hunters. the multiplier mobs likely go to the guy besides you. now i do like to hunt qaffaz on toulan. not a mob with high amount of hunters. my returns on 400 kill runs (+-50) vary by roughly 20% from 90 - 110% tt return and average out at pretty much 100% tt return. and that with a pretty bad weapon with 2,875 dpp (+ imp ares). this over a sample of a few days and overall around 6k kills. ofc its not much but the variance is very low. when i do a 400 kill sample on atrox or kerbs i might as well end up with 50% tt return easily, but i might as well end up with 200%. and if you are not on the lucky end of the scale on a highly hunted mob then well... it should be obvious but your returns are going to suck.

moral of the story: go out and explore the universe. test out other planets, kill mobs with low traffic and wonder how your returns improve. other possibility is go out and hunt mobs that have actual MU in them. for example UG mobs with nanites, as long as the MU is high, or other mobs that have valuable stuff. there are enough out there, but you are going to need to do some research.
 
ill explain it once again to you. third time now.

crit items now work the way they were intended to work in the first place. when you got lots of crit damage and crit chance opposed to someone who doesnt have it then for example on a 1k hp mob you can get 115 loot events while the guy without it can only get 100 or maybe 95 loot events. the average loot on each event is different. the guy with the crit has lower cost to kill per mob so he gets lower average return per mob.
the other guy has higher cost to kill per mob so he gets higher average loot per mob. the return % is the same (ideally, we dont include swings here now as it is to make a point).

BUT now as the biggest factor, basically like always, to profit on a run you are going to need multipliers. now who do you think has the better chance for more multiplier, the guy with 115 loot events or the one with 95 loot events, while both spending the exact same amount of peds?
As you dont seem to be clear on this ill give you the answer: its the guy with more loot events. sure the other guy can get lucky and hit a big one. but his chance of doing so is smaller. so crit items still give an advantage. and the advantage is exactly like it should be. i mean it shouldve been obvious that the easy peasy money printing mashinery shouldnt work like that. at least for everyone who has a brain it shouldve been obvious.

now you complain about your returns being 2% worse than before. well, look at what you hunted. mostly eomons. first of all its incredibly stupid to hunt eomons, or any event mob at all for that matter.
but a lot of people hunt eomons. and as it has always been, the more people hunt a mob, the bigger the loot swings are. take atrox, or kerbs. the loot swings are ridiculously high due to the high amount of hunters. the multiplier mobs likely go to the guy besides you. now i do like to hunt qaffaz on toulan. not a mob with high amount of hunters. my returns on 400 kill runs (+-50) vary by roughly 20% from 90 - 110% tt return and average out at pretty much 100% tt return. and that with a pretty bad weapon with 2,875 dpp (+ imp ares). this over a sample of a few days and overall around 6k kills. ofc its not much but the variance is very low. when i do a 400 kill sample on atrox or kerbs i might as well end up with 50% tt return easily, but i might as well end up with 200%. and if you are not on the lucky end of the scale on a highly hunted mob then well... it should be obvious but your returns are going to suck.

moral of the story: go out and explore the universe. test out other planets, kill mobs with low traffic and wonder how your returns improve. other possibility is go out and hunt mobs that have actual MU in them. for example UG mobs with nanites, as long as the MU is high, or other mobs that have valuable stuff. there are enough out there, but you are going to need to do some research.

Nope. I fully disagree with just about everything here, but especially that critical items are somehow now finally working "correctly". They were working correctly for the previous system by allowing for an improvement in dpp. They still improve dpp, but now that the loot system isn't based on dpp, it doesn't improve loot. So it was just fine before, even if it was unbalanced.

If MA really thought they weren't working incorrectly, they would have acted much sooner to correct the items lol.

I think in the long run this change is good for the game probably. But there's a shit ton of collateral damage.
 
ill explain it once again to you. third time now.

<trimmed>

moral of the story: go out and explore the universe. test out other planets, kill mobs with low traffic and wonder how your returns improve. other possibility is go out and hunt mobs that have actual MU in them. for example UG mobs with nanites, as long as the MU is high, or other mobs that have valuable stuff. there are enough out there, but you are going to need to do some research.

The [value] of argument that crit buffs allows players to stay out longer is subjective and as a result insubstantial. Regardless if you loot 100 in a run or 50 in two runs, your return is going to be the same and there is no way to alter that. Because you're not restricted to only spending X number of peds under any conditions, it's irrelevant if you do it in one run or not. Multipliers will land no matter if you land them now or you land them two hunts from now.

PS. Why is everyone so rude to each other. I understand this is a high stress scenario for some but talk about jumping down each other's throats and putting each other down....
 
...
on a 1k hp mob you can get 115 loot events while the guy without it can only get 100 or maybe 95 loot events
...
the return % is the same
...
who do you think has the better chance for more multiplier, the guy with 115 loot events or the one with 95 loot events
...
its the guy with more loot events
...
so crit items still give an advantage
Wow instead of the return system being a black box you seem to know not only how it works, but also how it used to work and how it was always expected to work. God mode (shall we say god complex) right there. Charles did not mention any advantages to buffs, but you know. As said multiple times, that's not how it looks like in my statistics - and they are all I trust.

you complain about your returns being 2% worse than before. well, look at what you hunted. mostly eomons. first of all its incredibly stupid to hunt eomons, or any event mob at all for that matter.
Take a peak at eomon statistics and who has shot them the most. I know quite well what eomons were and what they are now. I could profit or break even on them all the years except this one. Same goes for many others. It has nothing to do with mob size and swings I used to do fine in alphas and now cannot break even in youngs.
 
BUT now as the biggest factor, basically like always, to profit on a run you are going to need multipliers. now who do you think has the better chance for more multiplier, the guy with 115 loot events or the one with 95 loot events, while both spending the exact same amount of peds?
As you dont seem to be clear on this ill give you the answer: its the guy with more loot events. sure the other guy can get lucky and hit a big one. but his chance of doing so is smaller. so crit items still give an advantage. and the advantage is exactly like it should be. i mean it shouldve been obvious that the easy peasy money printing mashinery shouldnt work like that. at least for everyone who has a brain it shouldve been obvious.

I think you're making assumptions about the loot system which have no proof. I agree with you that it seems logical that more loot events = more multipliers, but honestly I think a lot of things would probably surprise us if we saw the actual algorithm. Not saying I disagree with you, just saying it's purely speculative.
 
Take a peak at eomon statistics and who has shot them the most. I know quite well what eomons were and what they are now. I could profit or break even on them all the years except this one. Same goes for many others. It has nothing to do with mob size and swings I used to do fine in alphas and now cannot break even in youngs.

Smilgs, I really respect all of the time and money you've put into the game and I know you are an extremely experienced player, but this is a point where I think you might be being a bit stubborn.

My friend Mark Rufen Power rage-quitted after 2.0, because his system no longer worked. He was hunting on a fraction of the mob/budget/gear that you are. He created the "how to survive" thread and soc. As much as I like the guy, I was a bit disappointed that instead of trying new things and learning how to survive the new climate he just gave up. He refused to try something else.

This kind of reminds me of you based on what I've read. Maybe it's time for you to try something else? I understand (believe me) the frustration of having a system that worked for so long suddenly not work any longer, but it is what is is.

That being said, as I mentioned in a previous post, I've tried damn near everything and nothing's working for me, so I can't say that you'll have better luck -- BUT what you do know is what you're doing now isn't working so continuing to do it seems silly.
 
I think you might be being a bit stubborn.
...
BUT what you do know is what you're doing now isn't working so continuing to do it seems silly.
Not a bit stubborn, I am like the definition of stubborn at least as far as gaming goes. Like refusing to use EST while it worked. Maybe now should start lol.
About continuing to do what does not work - have been doing it since April 2016 to ~ 87.5k losses, then decided to change and the change I did was to change my gun to a buffed gun recently released and try different buffs. Well this worked out just perfectly as we all know (the worst thing is that it seemed to work for a moment just to get completely crushed after l2.0, in fact it was almost like they noticed I am finally losing less and said "we cannot have that can we?"). About mob changes - I never saw a significant change of tt return % based on the mob in my experience. MU can of course be different, but as any reasonable person knows there will never be significant MU on high turnover. Survival mode (lowering turnover) just isn't my thing.
Anyway thanks for the advise to you and others I know you mean well.
 
The [value] of argument that crit buffs allows players to stay out longer is subjective and as a result insubstantial. Regardless if you loot 100 in a run or 50 in two runs, your return is going to be the same and there is no way to alter that. Because you're not restricted to only spending X number of peds under any conditions, it's irrelevant if you do it in one run or not. Multipliers will land no matter if you land them now or you land them two hunts from now.

PS. Why is everyone so rude to each other. I understand this is a high stress scenario for some but talk about jumping down each other's throats and putting each other down....

u dont seem to understand. its not about the sample size or the runs or whatever. its really simple: the one with crit items can buy more tickets / looting events / whatever you wanne call them for THE SAME amount of money. that gives him a mathematical advantage. it doesnt matter if he does it in one session or in 2. or if he does 100 sessions of 1 kill each. he just gets more tickets for the same money.
i mean if you go and buy lottery tickets once you buy 10 tickets for 100 bucks and once you buy 7 tickets for 100 bucks. dont you think the guy with 10 tickets has an advantage? of course the second guy could spend more to get the same amount of tickets. buzt thats exactly the point.

and to girtsn: yes in loot 2.0 the mechanism is very, very obvious. maybe you dont see it when killing 50 ped per kill mobs. but go and take a big damage gun and kill a few 10 hp mobs, a few 20hp. 50 hp, 80hp 100 hp and so on and you would be amazed on how obvious it is how the new loot is working.
and of course the old loot is kind of a blackbox but we pretty much know that there was a set dpp which calculated the average loot per mob, which can be altered by using very low dpp weapons to an extent, but which, once surpassed with higher dpp would yield 100%+ tt returns easily. ive seen many players do this and every single one of them did the same. and it is repeatable. im not talking bout loot composition or rare items here. pure and simple average loot and multiplier.

maybe if you would spend more time yourself and stop paying others to play you would start recognizing things as well.
 
u dont seem to understand. its not about the sample size or the runs or whatever. its really simple: the one with crit items can buy more tickets / looting events / whatever you wanne call them for THE SAME amount of money. that gives him a mathematical advantage. it doesnt matter if he does it in one session or in 2. or if he does 100 sessions of 1 kill each. he just gets more tickets for the same money.
i mean if you go and buy lottery tickets once you buy 10 tickets for 100 bucks and once you buy 7 tickets for 100 bucks. dont you think the guy with 10 tickets has an advantage? of course the second guy could spend more to get the same amount of tickets. buzt thats exactly the point.


I'm going to start ignoring all these, "It's really simple, you are just too stupid to understand" introductions. :rolleyes:

I didn't say anything about sample size. You are still thinking Loot 1.0 when you are saying mathematical advantage. No, he will not, because the prizes for those two tickets are not the same.

You are putting total emphasis on getting multipliers. But it has already been tracked extensively that return, WITH multipliers, is 98%. It levels out; that is your TT return percent. It doesn't matter if you pay 2 peds a mob or 1 ped a mob. Your return is 98%.

Welcome to Loot 2.0.
 
I'm going to start ignoring all these, "It's really simple, you are just too stupid to understand" introductions. :rolleyes:

I didn't say anything about sample size. You are still thinking Loot 1.0 when you are saying mathematical advantage. No, he will not, because the prizes for those two tickets are not the same.

You are putting total emphasis on getting multipliers. But it has already been tracked extensively that return, WITH multipliers, is 98%. It levels out; that is your TT return percent. It doesn't matter if you pay 2 peds a mob or 1 ped a mob. Your return is 98%.

Welcome to Loot 2.0.

okay well. you dont seem to understand the maths behind it or you just dont want to see it so ill just stop explaining it to you. i think everyone else got it already so its okay if one doesnt get it.
 
okay well. you dont seem to understand the maths behind it or you just dont want to see it so ill just stop explaining it to you. i think everyone else got it already so its okay if one doesnt get it.

I got to the maths of it a month ago. If you want to back out of the discussion now feel free, it doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I only commented about your backhanded insult as something I'm going to ignore, and rightfully so. We've been trying to explain our findings to people for over a month and I appreciate those who take the time and for those that don't, you don't have to, but no need to try and put people down to make yourself feel good.
 
I got to the maths of it a month ago. If you want to back out of the discussion now feel free, it doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I only commented about your backhanded insult as something I'm going to ignore, and rightfully so. We've been trying to explain our findings to people for over a month and I appreciate those who take the time and for those that don't, you don't have to, but no need to try and put people down to make yourself feel good.

okay well. one problem of your "explanation" was that you suspect the person to have an unlimited supply of peds to make an unlimited sample size. then yes. it may come down to 98%.but can you point me to a person that fits to these criteria, apart from the few ubers that like to complain here?
the normal player has a set budget with what he needs to work. this budget buys him a certain number of tickets depending on the mob size he choses. for this amount of peds that is finite he wants to have the highest chance of reaching the "optimal" 98 %, am i right so far? and how does he have the highest chance to reach that point? the highest chance he obviously got when he gets the most tickets out of his money. so either he needs to stop down in mob size or does somethign else to increase the amount of tickets he can get wit his money. and one of these thigns is getting crit items, or in general: higher dpp. i mean this is quite clear, isnt it?
 
okay well. one problem of your "explanation" was that you suspect the person to have an unlimited supply of peds to make an unlimited sample size. then yes. it may come down to 98%.but can you point me to a person that fits to these criteria, apart from the few ubers that like to complain here?
the normal player has a set budget with what he needs to work. this budget buys him a certain number of tickets depending on the mob size he choses. for this amount of peds that is finite he wants to have the highest chance of reaching the "optimal" 98 %, am i right so far? and how does he have the highest chance to reach that point? the highest chance he obviously got when he gets the most tickets out of his money. so either he needs to stop down in mob size or does somethign else to increase the amount of tickets he can get wit his money. and one of these thigns is getting crit items, or in general: higher dpp. i mean this is quite clear, isnt it?


No, regardless if you have 100 peds or 10,000, when you hunt within reason (not trying to kill osse with a bukins), your return will be 98%. Doesn't matter if you are hunting your optimal mob 100 times and the next person hunts it for 200. You both see 98%.

What you are talking about is bankroll for swings. That's a different discussion, but is a fundamental nature of gambling and its been discussed in depth before so didn't think that was the topic at hand.
 
No, regardless if you have 100 peds or 10,000, when you hunt within reason (not trying to kill osse with a bukins), your return will be 98%. Doesn't matter if you are hunting your optimal mob 100 times and the next person hunts it for 200. You both see 98%.

What you are talking about is bankroll for swings. That's a different discussion, but is a fundamental nature of gambling and its been discussed in depth before so didn't think that was the topic at hand.

you cant discuss returns without taking swings and bankroll into consideration... jesus christ wtf am i talking about all the time? this is not a fantasy world where you can set your owns rules...

or do you get 98% return on every single mob you hunt? if not than your point is completely irrelevant
 
No, regardless if you have 100 peds or 10,000, when you hunt within reason (not trying to kill osse with a bukins), your return will be 98%. Doesn't matter if you are hunting your optimal mob 100 times and the next person hunts it for 200. You both see 98%.

What you are talking about is bankroll for swings. That's a different discussion, but is a fundamental nature of gambling and its been discussed in depth before so didn't think that was the topic at hand.


I saw the thread you and Zho did about the effect of buffs, but I must have missed the one where you proved everyone will get 98% return if they hunt within reason. Could you point me to it? I would definitely like to learn how to achieve this.

I'm not being sarcastic btw.
 
u dont seem to understand. its not about the sample size or the runs or whatever. its really simple: the one with crit items can buy more tickets / looting events / whatever you wanne call them for THE SAME amount of money. that gives him a mathematical advantage.


I think this is the part you are making assumptions about. The flaw in your logic exists if the prize money is reflected in the cost of the ticket. Kind of like how you can win more from one type of lottery ticket than 10 of another type of lottery ticket (I don't play the lottery so I can't give concrete example). In other words, getting more multipliers or bonuses doesn't give you an advantage if the value of them is decreased in proportion to the quantity.

I believe this is the point Eli is trying to make also.
 
I think this is the part you are making assumptions about. The flaw in your logic exists if the prize money is reflected in the cost of the ticket. Kind of like how you can win more from one type of lottery ticket than 10 of another type of lottery ticket (I don't play the lottery so I can't give concrete example). In other words, getting more multipliers or bonuses doesn't give you an advantage if the value of them is decreased in proportion to the quantity.

I believe this is the point Eli is trying to make also.

yeah i know that the multiplier value is also dependant on the size of the kill cost. so lower kill cost + multi means less than higher kill cost + multi.
but the point being is that more tickets give you more chances to get ANY multi in the first place.

lets say his money buy him 295 tickets. and none of them is a winning multi. if he would now be able to afford 305 tickets with the same money then he may have gotten at least one in those 10 more tickets.
 
I usually only hunt for daily tokens these days.

However, to this day, from whence loot 2 appeared, the only mobs now I cancel are Chomper's and Osseo.
I believe on some mobs, the loot is simply broken, like Eomon, getting 2 or 3 ped per mob, when it costs 10-12 ped to kill (not exact ped there, but you get the idea), and you need multiple global's just to reach that 98% return mark.

Other less popular mobs, like Oculus, Snarg, Kingfishers, my returns are usually close to, or above 100%.

Most mobs now, if after 3 or 4 runs, I consistently keep getting 50% or less to 70%, I'll black list, never to be hunted again, until MA fix them.

There are mobs out there for everyone, just got to find them.
 
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I saw the thread you and Zho did about the effect of buffs, but I must have missed the one where you proved everyone will get 98% return if they hunt within reason. Could you point me to it? I would definitely like to learn how to achieve this.

I'm not being sarcastic btw.

I think the 98% is not a real number, just example number.

If your expected tt return is xx% (in this case 98%) due to efficiency, you would expect that whether you pay 1 ped into a mob or 2 peds, basically.

At the risk of comparing this game to a slot machine, I'm going to compare this game to a slot machine:

Pre Loot 2.0: This game was a like a slot machine where the payout was the same in absolute tt, but you could adjust the amount you paid to play the machine.

Post Loot 2.0: Now when you put money into the slot machine, the slot machine pays out proportionally to the money that goes in. The absolute tt output changes to a linear function of your input tt basically.
 
you cant discuss returns without taking swings and bankroll into consideration...
My last Million Burnt :)
bankroll.jpg
 
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