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Loot 2.0

LuisArkadov said:
May be so.

Yet what's the point of an RCE game if a lot of the most high-end players cannot profit?

What signal does this spread?

I can accept a need of balancing things a bit but what just happened was a completely cynical U-turn in many regards.

Nerf the effect of EST armour was needed not the total destruction of crit buffs.
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ill explain it to you:

imagine you are an average person with average income. can you afford to throw 50k bucks into a video game? no. surely you can not. and you most likely never will. so whats the point in playing said game if you know that you wont be able to profit unless you throw 50k bucks onto the screen? you are right. there is zero point in doing it. so imagine how the game would run with just a few people who do said 50k bucks thing and expect to profit while there is nobody to support those profits. you think the MA is going to pay the highrollers to play the game? surely they will not. so how is that ponzi scheme of a game supposed to work? ill tell you that:
its working when its not a ponzi scheme game. and thats exactly what MA has done now. there are still numerous things you can hunt for a profit. on nearly every range of the player spectrum. it may not be as easy for a low skilled hunter but it gets significantly easier the higher skilled you are. and is that not what this is about?
now im not going to tell you what to hunt to profit. because that would kinda sabotage the whole idea, wouldnt it? do some research. use ur brain. and you may figure it out.
the direction the game is going now is the one it should have been from the start.
 
I know this isn't the answer you are looking for but...

I've imposed a loss limit per month. Since I can no longer break even on tt or even with MU most of the time, I get maybe 20-30 hours of game time in then I peace out of the game for the rest of the month.

Silver lining is my game time vs RL is much more better/balanced now now lol.

In the end, now you have to decide how much you are willing to spend in game for entertainment now.

Unfortunately, loss you incur is based on peds/cycled, and i don't see MA doing a scaling for more peds cycled in a month. For me it is about 1-2 dollars an hour, it seems you pay more if you cycle more though.

I was easily cycling 50-60k a month before sometimes more, and that would cost me abuot 100-200 dollars now per month in losses lol.
 
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Jhereg said:
I know this isn't the answer you are looking for but...

I've imposed a loss limit per month. Since I can no longer break even on tt or even with MU most of the time, I get maybe 20-30 hours of game time in then I peace out of the game for the rest of the month.
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Lol, there is such a loss limit already in place.
Just get that bloody trigger finger of the mouse buttom and stop shooting!
Or, hunt smaller to let your ped last longer.

It's own responsibility you know.


Jhereg said:
Silver lining is my game time vs RL is much more better/balanced now now lol.
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Lol, yeah, spend some time on your partner and kinds (if you have those).


Jhereg said:
In the end, now you have to decide how much you are willing to spend in game for entertainment now.
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...or just learn to play smart and find out there's more than just shooting in entropia ;)
 
There are a lot of schadenfreude on the forums lately.

Some people made investments in gear, based on trust in MA.

Some people made this game their life, on trust given to MA.

There's no need to belittle the fact that they suffered in this update. I know I have.
 
Jhereg said:
There are a lot of schadenfreude on the forums lately.

Some people made investments in gear, based on trust in MA.

Some people made this game their life, on trust given to MA.

There's no need to belittle the fact that they suffered in this update. I know I have.
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well, based on your avatar info dating from 2005, you know this not a recent thing.
This has been going on since forever.

Nothing new here.
 
I personally am loving 2.0.
My PED has not lasted like this since 2007. Its a shame that a few people(as always) will have bad cycles during an update, the worse shame is when they decide to just give up without trying new things to counter/figure out the changes, and then everyone else figures they must know something and follow suit.

Ive been all around a few planets now from low end to high end mobs, and its better than ever. I frankly am very surprised more people aren't out hunting when PED can last like it does now.

And just for your information, I am by no means a rich person, I live on a limited income near poverty level, so I am very familiar with your kinds of deposit concerns. The only way to counter that, is to play smart.
 
forgo said:
I personally am loving 2.0.
My PED has not lasted like this since 2007. Its a shame that a few people(as always) will have bad cycles during an update, the worse shame is when they decide to just give up without trying new things to counter/figure out the changes, and then everyone else figures they must know something and follow suit.
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This ship sailed when MA confirmed the changes to the loot system lol. I don't mind that they want to be more fair about the cost to play. But negating the value in people's items overnight, that just sucks however you look at it.

As for somehow "learning" the new system and new ways to play, I can assure you, I study this game fairly carefully (less so now that I am not playing as much), and have a pretty good sense on the intricacies of the game. I have yet to find a mob that I can TT+MU profit on (potentially one but I have not gone above break even yet even with MU), if you assume a 96-97% TT return rate.
 
Jhereg said:
This ship sailed when MA confirmed the changes to the loot system lol. I don't mind that they want to be more fair about the cost to play. But negating the value in people's items overnight, that just sucks however you look at it.
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MA never asked you to pay 2200% for an EST set, or 150k for easter ring.

Nor did MA ever claimed to give you any guarantee about MU on items. So dont expect that guarantee. :wise:

Any item you buy with MU is a potential risk. And you're smart enough to know that.

Sure, you're right, it sucks for the owner of those items. Tough luck! You should have thought about that before you spent those ridiculous amounts on a bunch of ones and zeros.

EU is dynamic, right?
 
wizz said:
MA never asked you to pay 2200% for an EST set, or 150k for easter ring.

Nor did MA ever claimed to give you any guarantee about MU on items. So dont expect that guarantee. :wise:

Any item you buy with MU is a potential risk. And you're smart enough to know that.

Sure, you're right, it sucks for the owner of those items. Tough luck! You should have thought about that before you spent those ridiculous amounts on a bunch of ones and zeros.

EU is dynamic, right?
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This is a terrible argument. You are essentially arguing that there will always be so much volatility in this game, that's marketed as a RCE, that you should never trust the value in any item, and that this volatility is due to MA being able to change anything at anytime. I'm not arguing this isn't true since we all know it is, based on the most recent update.

But I highly doubt this is what we are going for here. I am not arguing that there isn't inherent volatility in the market. But that a switch can be pressed to simply change it, with no player input, who are technically also stakeholders in this game, is problematic in terms of trust.

By that logic, why bother buying any items in this game? By that logic, why even deposit or play this game at all?

In fact, that is exactly what you are seeing now. When faith is lost that the system is not fixed, people downsize their inventory or quit altogether. Why buy anything when you can't trust the value of the items.

But MA doesn't care, it isn't really any hair off their backs in this case. So the old blood in the game who are disillusioned will leave or downsize their game time, and MA hopes new blood will come into the game, possibly starting the cycle all over again.

So when will players hold MA accountable for what they do? I guess when they stop playing altogether?

When I purchased a summer ring, it was with the knowledge that with my hunting habits, I could recoup ~10 000 peds a year on the item. So I calculated depreciation in, in case the value drops. But while people discussed the overpowered nature of crit buffs, I'm not sure anyone would have guessed Loot 2.0 would nerf the items.
 
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Well, I'll buy all the crit buff'ing items out there, and use them in Mayhem :)

For the right price of course.
 
Jhereg said:
This is a terrible argument. You are essentially arguing that there will always be so much volatility in this game, that's marketed as a RCE, that you should never trust the value in any item, and that this volatility is due to MA being able to change anything at anytime. I'm not arguing this is true since we all know it is based on the most recent update.

But I highly doubt this is what we are going for here. I am not arguing that there is inherent volatility in the market. But that a switch can be pressed to simply change it, with no player input, who are technically also stakeholders in this game, is problematic in terms of trust.

By that logic, why bother buying any items in this game? By that logic, why even deposit or play this game at all?

In fact, that is exactly what you are seeing now. When faith is lost that the system is not fixed, people downsize their inventory or quit altogether. Why buy anything when you can't trust the value of the items.

But MA doesn't care, it isn't really any hair off their backs in this case. So the old blood in the game who are disillusioned will leave or downsize their game time, and MA hopes new blood will come into the game, possibly starting the cycle all over again.
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Well, I'm afraid it's not an argument from my side, but just a simple and plain fact.
And you know all to well it's the truth since you are experiencing it yourself. You're complaining about it all the time.
Let me get this straight, I'm not saying it's a good thing that it's so volatile, but I do know it's a fact.
It happened before in the past, recently and will happen in the future as well.

I learned to live with that. I know that every penny I stick in this game is lost and all that I get out is a bonus.

Again, I'm not judging it, I'm just stating it.
I can understand your point of view that it's bad to draw in investors, but on the other hand it draws in gamblers or risk investors.
Items can go down, but items can also go up.

Funny thing is people only complain when the item value drops.
But you never hear them complain when their items raised from 10k to 50k.


Judging from all your posts you are one of the few who either lost MU on buff items and saw your tt profit dwindle.
So you have a biased opinion.
 
wizz said:
Well, I'm afraid it's not an argument from my side, but just a simple and plain fact.
And you know all to well it's the truth since you are experiencing it yourself. You're complaining about it all the time.
Let me get this straight, I'm not saying it's a good thing that it's so volatile, but I do know it's a fact.
It happened before in the past, recently and will happen in the future as well.

I learned to live with that. I know that every penny I stick in this game is lost and all that I get out is a bonus.

Again, I'm not judging it, I'm just stating it.
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This is the definition of complacency in real life and in a virtual universe. Just living with it is why things never change and never improve. Some people seem to hold their ability to "tolerate" MA's habitual hack and slash of investments to great esteem. It's like a badge of honor to them. To me, it is simply a sign of defeat. You do nothing, and you keep playing. That's addiction.

wizz said:
I can understand your point of view that it's bad to draw in investors, but on the other hand it draws in gamblers or risk investors.
Items can go down, but items can also go up.
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Sure, items go up and down but this is not an "investment" as advertised when items go up and down overnight. Here, players like yourself feed into the problem. You shut down people who voice their complaints about values lost, and tell them that's just part and parcel. This removes the voice from players and puts power into MA. Other players start to doubt their own voice and value and you perpetuate that cycle.

wizz said:
Funny thing is people only complain when the item value drops.
But you never hear them complain when their items raised from 10k to 50k.
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Complaints come in many flavors. People have been complaining about the rise of buffs for a long long time. Not just the value of them, but the impacts. Not sure if you missed all that.

wizz said:
Judging from all your posts you are one of the few who either lost MU on buff items and saw your tt profit dwindle.
So you have a biased opinion.
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Of course opinions here are biased. Everyone has items of varying values. I'm sitting on a stack of neuro-xs from boxes and my opportunities to use those have been severely decreased if I don't want it to impact my loot composition. You seem to have something against those who have invested and saw damages. You've taken the role of "I'm better than you, I knew better and you got screwed," but without new blood to replace the disillusioned players that are leaving now, the game will die. And your attempts to just keep shutting people down who want to speak up about these issues really set to tone for anyone who comes in with money to "invest".

MA's actions have made it clear, don't do it.
 
Eli said:
... And your attempts to just keep shutting people down who want to speak up about these issues really set to tone for anyone who comes in with money to "invest".
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Nah, i dont want people to shut down.
I just want to argument with them.

I just don't automatically agree with people who complain.

I'd rather find a new way to survive instead of whining about how i think it should be or hoped it was.




sbi said:
Corrected it for you :wise:
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Thanks.
 
First off it's summer, I can't think of a single summer in 8 years that MA made any significant updates. Also we have migration which is a major event, can't think of a single event that MA has ever implemented a major update in the middle of. You should also know that MA is incredibly slow, I don't know the reasoning as to why they are so slow, I suspect it's has to do in large part with oversight on the Planet Partners. Just babysitting never die and his team has got to be a few peoples full time jobs at MA.

I for one have never understood why in the world MA would let players profit in tt. Especially in the several years MA wasn't doing so good in gross revenue. That's a major drain on the MA cash flow. In a true rce you don't profit directly from the oversight body, unless you are embezzling money from within i guess.

All investments are not secure and there for carry risk. Just because people own 10s of millions of dollars in google shares doesn't mean they are guaranteed that value. Shit happens maybe tomorrow google will shut it's doors and it's stocks become worthless,, I don't have a crystal ball, do you?

People have been telling MA to fire the balancing manager since at least before I started in eu. Maybe MA did just that and the new guy took a glance at the books and saw a bunch of revenue drains and said wtf let's put a cork in those holes first. If you happens to be a hole that got corked, that sucks try a different way to become a new hole. Coming to the forum and bitching about how ur hole got corked and the sky is falling won't gain any sympathies.

If you can't figure out how to make a new hole. And you can't afford to continue as a pay to play normie like the rest of us, maybe withdraw your winnings and go to the thousands of games that are free to play and get a job/better job.

Trying to insight hate against MA cuz ur leaky hole got corked is like trying to turn the crew of a ship against the only mechanic that knows how to fix the ship. If you pitch him off the side rail your boat is going to slowly and inevitably sink.
 
Eli said:
This is the definition of complacency in real life and in a virtual universe. Just living with it is why things never change and never improve. Some people seem to hold their ability to "tolerate" MA's habitual hack and slash of investments to great esteem. It's like a badge of honor to them. To me, it is simply a sign of defeat. You do nothing, and you keep playing. That's addiction.



Sure, items go up and down but this is not an "investment" as advertised when items go up and down overnight. Here, players like yourself feed into the problem. You shut down people who voice their complaints about values lost, and tell them that's just part and parcel. This removes the voice from players and puts power into MA. Other players start to doubt their own voice and value and you perpetuate that cycle.



Complaints come in many flavors. People have been complaining about the rise of buffs for a long long time. Not just the value of them, but the impacts. Not sure if you missed all that.



Of course opinions here are biased. Everyone has items of varying values. I'm sitting on a stack of neuro-xs from boxes and my opportunities to use those have been severely decreased if I don't want it to impact my loot composition. You seem to have something against those who have invested and saw damages. You've taken the role of "I'm better than you, I knew better and you got screwed," but without new blood to replace the disillusioned players that are leaving now, the game will die. And your attempts to just keep shutting people down who want to speak up about these issues really set to tone for anyone who comes in with money to "invest".

MA's actions have made it clear, don't do it.
Click to expand...

secret: everything can lose all its value overnight. be it stocks, money in general, your bitcoin purse or even your property. some things are just more risky than others. and stuff in a video game id put right on top of the risky list.
 
sidxx said:
First off it's summer, I can't think of a single summer in 8 years that MA made any significant updates. Also we have migration which is a major event, can't think of a single event that MA has ever implemented a major update in the middle of. You should also know that MA is incredibly slow, I don't know the reasoning as to why they are so slow, I suspect it's has to do in large part with oversight on the Planet Partners. Just babysitting never die and his team has got to be a few peoples full time jobs at MA.

I for one have never understood why in the world MA would let players profit in tt. Especially in the several years MA wasn't doing so good in gross revenue. That's a major drain on the MA cash flow. In a true rce you don't profit directly from the oversight body, unless you are embezzling money from within i guess.

All investments are not secure and there for carry risk. Just because people own 10s of millions of dollars in google shares doesn't mean they are guaranteed that value. Shit happens maybe tomorrow google will shut it's doors and it's stocks become worthless,, I don't have a crystal ball, do you?

People have been telling MA to fire the balancing manager since at least before I started in eu. Maybe MA did just that and the new guy took a glance at the books and saw a bunch of revenue drains and said wtf let's put a cork in those holes first. If you happens to be a hole that got corked, that sucks try a different way to become a new hole. Coming to the forum and bitching about how ur hole got corked and the sky is falling won't gain any sympathies.

If you can't figure out how to make a new hole. And you can't afford to continue as a pay to play normie like the rest of us, maybe withdraw your winnings and go to the thousands of games that are free to play and get a job/better job.

Trying to insight hate against MA cuz ur leaky hole got corked is like trying to turn the crew of a ship against the only mechanic that knows how to fix the ship. If you pitch him off the side rail your boat is going to slowly and inevitably sink.
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Amen!
:woohoo:
 
When something changes in the game, you need to observe, test and decide on what is the safest route. The top players that have been mentioned here have tested, determined that the old way is not a safe way to profit anymore and are now searching for other ways to do so. And like some have already posted, people are profiting again :) I doubt anyone will share their exact method of profiting, but I'm pretty sure there's a way :)

Entropia has always been fluid, ever changing. I would have thought that anyone who has lived through SGA would know by now that things change :)
 
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