Random Number Generation

We all should have seen this coming.

If no one will present evidence of random number generation, I thought I would make up a quick Excel sheet.

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Feel free to comment....

I must just say, Mindark..... What an amazing job .........

It looks and acts random, but is not random..... What the avatar actively or inactively does influences your loot ... The system is pretty simple mathematically and uses a unique "NOPE NOT GIVING IT AWAY". I think the easiest one for me to focus on would be skills as I have very little money ....

Yes ped value ties in... Every single number is a part of the same math and is manipulated in the same way. But there is a trade off . . . . One number in the system works out the way you want, but when you do not factor in some obscure other number into the mix, your plans get completely derailed.


The game does NOT USE A DATABASE .... It is balanced using a "BLAH distribution system which is based on BLAH BLAH BLAH NOT TELLING. If you think you are going to make peds even if you know how it works, you are dead wrong, there is always a cost, every action has to be logged and double checked..... I am going to give this piece away, even the equipping of an item changes the way the game looks.


Just be observant and look, everything is a clue.

It's just so brilliantly well done... My version may be a bit more complex than what is needed so I will have to test some more .... But hell guys.... WELL DONE !!!!!

Old R4t U speak such horsekwap

It's absolutely random...

Evidence ...,

1) Law of Large Numbers (here)

If the game uses random numbers as a base, those events will tend to an average. Your own sheet tends to those averages .......

2) Your own sheet.

Your own sheet demonstrates that random numbers match the values expected. 95% returns with a +- 27% hitrate.

3) Logs

If a system actually existed, how quickly will the community abuse it ? Every miner logs their hits nowadays but none, except for other me has suggested that there is a non random system, in fact other me, you yourself said that the system might not be predictable as you would have to know the location and activity of all players in your local area.... from my perspective that would be random !!!!

4) Community and developer support of a "chance" based system

Mindark has stated that the game is "dynamic" and based on "chance", that could indicate a random based system. The community is also heavily biased towards a random system. However this could be an argument from authority fallacy.

5) Depreciation of any system over time

You have tried to figure this thing out for how many years now and have simply not done it... It works for a while then dies... Could it be that Mindark's system actually punishes players for using a pattern..

Allow me to explain.. Miner's move using 2 simple variables namely distance and vector. It should not be difficult to track the motion of players and decrease the rewards of players that perform the same move over and over again by simply tracking these variables. If these vectors were randomized, it would be more difficult to track.

6) Randomness in the mining tools themselves

Tools have average depth, that would suggest to me that there is a system that governs it, which in my case is random. A simple RandBetween(min depth, max depth) would tend to the average, again law of large numbers.


I could go on but I think my point is made...

Did you forget to swallow your pills again?

wizz said:

Did you forget to swallow your pills again?

Click to expand...

I thought it high time that I counter my own posts...

Ingame I thought it high time to do something different, so I replaced my sheets variables for direction, mining probe radius, depth and level with a randbetween function between the min and max values of each variable and went mining...

Depending on the area, which seems to be a square km, the frequency and size of the claims differs.

The tank idea, that was suggested to me by another miner, is confirmed, each area has a definite loot pool that seems to contain avatar's spent peds.

After I had adjusted the sheet, I went to Camp Icarus, ye where all the noobs are... I thought hey, they might be noobs, but spent peds are spent peds. The hitrate was high but the mu was low. Then I hit a large deposit. Instantly my hitrate dropped, so I left the area.

Later on I met another miner, he informed me that he had just used a lvl 13 amp on this area and was going to do another lvl 13 run in the same area... Perfect... I have the location of where I know peds will be spent.

A few hours later I headed back to the area and scouted around. A significant and abundant deposit later, my bankroll had significantly improved after the amp failure that same afternoon.

I will continue to use randbetween on areas as long as the hits hold...

PS I cannot swallow pills, I eat them ......

You can't rule out the fact that there are human operators monitoring the game in real time to, and how much and in what sense can they change outcomes and game behaviour in real time? The system can have many pattern recognition functions built into the system, some of them maybe even alarm signals when certain patterns are recognized. Anything from botting or systematic behaviours in players game style. And they can probably track individual players and groups and monitoring and changing their returns manually. If I where CEO of Mindark I would never trust this monster system to be run 100% automatically without the possibility of human interaction. And if this is the case then this human operator random factor has to be accounted for to.

This is what I believe anyway.

I want you to test this hypothesis:

If you say positive things about Mindark in Rookie chat and help rookies 24/7 for a month and track your returns you will see a significant increase in loot

Click to expand...

Pretto Loco said:

You can't rule out the fact that there are human operators monitoring the game in real time to, and how much and in what sense can they change outcomes and game behaviour in real time? The system can have many pattern recognition functions built into the system, some of them maybe even alarm signals when certain patterns are recognized. Anything from botting or systematic behaviours in players game style. And they can probably track individual players and groups and monitoring and changing their returns manually. If I where CEO of Mindark I would never trust this monster system to be run 100% automatically without the possibility of human interaction. And if this is the case then this human operator random factor has to be accounted for to.

This is what I believe anyway.

I want you to test this hypothesis:

Click to expand...

Checking for bots is simple, just drop stuff on the ground and see if it gets picked up... Bots would also perform the same tasks over and over again ... like a bot...

At the risk of inspiring further insanity...

While it is now entirely possible to generate truly random sequences, the evidence to date suggests that MA have not bothered to do this. And by evidence I mean the distribution of rare loot in reasonably predictable waves, which has continued on into loot 2.0.

That is not to suggest that they are actively manipulating loot to minimise returns but instead that they haven't prioritised redevelopment of this aspect of the game mechanics.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

Computers can't generate truly random numbers, unless you attach it to processes that are actually random, like electrical noise, atomic motion..

But perfectly random is not necessary, the sequence just can't be predictable by users.

Jhereg said:

Computers can't generate truly random numbers, unless you attach it to processes that are actually random, like electrical noise, atomic motion..

But perfectly random is not necessary, the sequence just can't be predictable by users.

Click to expand...

I do have another hypothesis regarding randomness. Tracking a random avatar, with a random mining tool, moves a random distance from a random x,y to another x,y and spends a random number of ped.

Would it be better to use a random number generator or law of averages to simulate the avatar's current move ?

RNG = Random

Random = Gambling

RNG = Gambling


Gambling = No more EU

Rocket192 said:

RNG = Random

Random = Gambling

RNG = Gambling


Gambling = No more EU

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I'm not talking about the game, I am simulating player movement ...

R4tt3xx said:

I'm not talking about the game, I am simulating player movement ...

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after your recent outbreak on wild theories you maybe should look into: ockhams razor.

R4tt3xx said:

Checking for bots is simple, just drop stuff on the ground and see if it gets picked up... Bots would also perform the same tasks over and over again ... like a bot...

Click to expand...

I'm a bot

Its pre-determent.. the bank always wins

Me Really Never said:

after your recent outbreak on wild theories you maybe should look into: ockhams razor.

Click to expand...

If you are going that route then it has to be sorry to say it, the roll of a dice...

Count Joe said:

Its pre-determent.. the bank always wins

Click to expand...

The bank also has bills to pay in order to keep the "casino" running .

Clever..... If a pre-determined system was used, luck vanishes... OH but wait, it can be used..... Random seed.

And there we go, a pseudorandom sequence of numbers that is predetermined.... How quaint... Your hitrate% and every thing else was setup at either the creation of each avatar or piece of equipment...

Brilliant !! Go forth and prove it...

Sarcasm aside... Would this be enough to not classify EU as casino ? I mean essentially there are no individual dice rolls, everyone gets the same roll when a roll is called for.

Something else just popped into my slimy little head.... Perception theory, you know that little thing that suggested that you could sniff out a higher than average deposit by looking for these skill gains. Skill Gains are generated almost instantaneously, I have yet to see one of those gains lag out on me..

So are skillgains generated server or client side ?