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Change the Daily Token Storm Coats

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Darkaruki

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Formerly "Darkaruki Dorkaruki Kakiro"
One of the additions of 15.15.3 which, in my opinion is a great idea, is a new series of items added to the Daily Trader called "Storm Coats", which give 20%/25% acceleration for 4000/6000 daily tokens on the coat item slot, meaning they can be worn under armor.

Don't get me wrong, I think the daily system which allows players to pick up some CDF guns every now and then in exchange for getting out there and killing some mobs every day is a great addition to the game, I think these new coats are mainly meant to appeal to the players not previously enticed by these rewards, and they can be fairly useful.

In my opinion, however, as opposed to having Amber, Amethyst, Aquamarine, Emerald, and Sapphire Storm Coats all give 20% and cost 4000, and the Charcoal and Gold Storm Coats give 25% and cost 6000, the coats should all cost either 1000, 1500, or maybe 2000 at most, and all give 25% Acceleration. Their "Item Remaining" quantities should all be much higher as well, to show there will be no shortage of them for players brave enough to work towards them.

Why? Because 1000-2000 will still take the majority of players at least a few months up to a year to achieve while doing some serious grinding through the Daily Challenges every day. That's still a massive goal and commitment for even the most hardcore players, but at least one that is realistic enough that they can feel it is achievable, that it is worth working towards.

So, the problem is with the prices you've given for these coats you've alienated almost anybody who might've been interested in taking on a massive and expensive grind (which is to your direct benefit especially considering these coats aren't even ttable or tradeable) by forcing them to compromise between lame colour options and not having the full buff, having the coats require way more work than they could possibly be worth, and on top of that because of their very limited quantities at the moment they're probably inclined to believe that there is a strong possibility that after grinding for the daily tokens for somewhere between one to three years (seriously :scratch2:) they might have just wasted all their time because the coat they want might be sold out to an even bigger nolifer than them.

All of this is just a recipe for disaster, remember, it's your business to get people interested in going out and hunting, mining, crafting, and you're failing at it by ruining this great idea with some terrible decisions.

It's not too late, nobody has bought a single coat and it likely will be months before a single coat is bought, maybe even longer considering the small number of players I know who run dailies very frequently consider the coats to be grossly overpriced and have zero interest in them as a result.

Any downsides? This might, ever so slightly, hurt the market price of Hermetic Rings, which are already barely worth anything since they're a relatively common drop and provide little economic benefit, mainly just a bit of added utility/fun for players.


TL;DR: Coats are way too expensive, have very limited supply, and the colour choices are limited in a very stupid fashion just to troll anyone bold enough to even try to take on the 1-3 year grind for a coat.
 
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if you need the buff that bad, perhaps try another alternative to get it. I think these things are probably priced in a similar way to the way hub coats, and coats in general have been priced historically? Coats are not exactly, nor have ever been a n00b item to pick up on day one.

I do agree with your points, just saying, I doubt Mindark will change pricing easily. Maybe the can load it up with some other new coats in a new vu that cost less and give a slightly lower buff rate?
 
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mastermesh said:
if you need the buff that bad, perhaps try another alternative to get it. I think these things are probably priced in a similar way to the way hub coats, and coats in general have been priced historically?

I do agree with you points, just saying, I doubt Mindark will change pricing easily. Maybe the can load it up with some other new coats in a new vu that cost less and give a slightly lower buff rate?
Click to expand...

I already own a Hermetic Ring, I'm just disappointed that they added new content does little apart from make people feel offended when they look at it. They had a good idea and then just messed up on the numbers. Little to no players will feel motivated to work 1-3 years for these coats, so their idea of getting people out there playing their game feeling motivated to work towards them will almost completely fail. If they had made the coats cheaper, given more freedom of choice in terms of colour, and maybe made them a bit less limited, you would hear lots of players excited about working on their coat and talking about it.
 
Darkaruki said:
I already own a Hermetic Ring, I'm just disappointed that they added new content does little apart from make people feel offended when they look at it. They had a good idea and then just messed up on the numbers. Little to no players will feel motivated to work 1-3 years for these coats, so their idea of getting people out there playing their game feeling motivated to work towards them will almost completely fail. If they had made the coats cheaper, given more freedom of choice in terms of colour, and maybe made them a bit less limited, you would hear lots of players excited about working on their coat and talking about it.
Click to expand...

You can get alot of tokens in one day, also dont forget about bonus missions.
 
yes, great idea!!

6000 tokens would take me around 2000 days to collect as I only have time for 1 or 2 daily missions.

In other words, I would not be able to collect the needed tokens :(

And if they're limited supply I won't even bother to collect because of the time needed.
 
Limited stock I understand your words. But not about price. Its just fine there are some grinding rewards you can only achieve when spending alot of time. Good to have some long time goals. Not everything must be availlable to everyone just playing few hours a week. I mean: it is not a game changing item. Just dont think about it if you dont have the time and motivation to grind hard. :D
 
This is a generational thing I guess, if it doesnt fit me it must be the thing thats wrong??

Its a novel thing and a reason for many enough players to habe a reason to do dailys and to actually be like a real trophy to the owner of one of those coats. If its easily attainable then theres no real value of getting it :)
 
Vagrant said:
You can get alot of tokens in one day, also dont forget about bonus missions.
Click to expand...

I currently have several hundred daily tokens in my storage and I have checked for them every 16 hours for a very long time, I have avoided buying almost any (L) guns for a long time using this tactic, I am very aware of how little/much daily tokens can be obtained and at what rate, but just to prove my point, here are the nitty gritty details:

1.625 Daily Hunter Category 1 Weighted Mean
2.815 Daily Hunter Category 2 Weighted Mean
3.767 Daily Hunter Category 3 Weighted Mean
2.727 Daily Manufacturer Weighted Mean
2.588 Daily Miner Weighted Mean
1 Argonaut Cave
1 Feffoid Cave
4 Feffoid Camp
6 Bloodclaw

25.52 Daily tokens per day on average is the maximum average, assuming you are strong enough to take down stuff like mulaak'f, primordial longu slayer/bloodclaw, daspletor, kreltin, aurli broods, etc, and willing to hunt stuff that can only be found in taxed like globster, miner bot, second entity, chomper, etc.

Feffoid Camp is not a bad source of daily tokens as well, but it will very soon be near abandoned and be practically impossible for anybody to solo outside, again, well prepared uber avatars with uber gear.

The minimum average time it will take to obtain 6000 daily tokens is a modest 235 days as an extremely uber skilled avatar with a LOT of ped to waste on travelling, tax, hunting garbage mobs, crafting random useless items for no reason, mining worthless resources, not to mention the insane time investment.

Let's say you're not strong enough to solo Feffoid Camp, and can't get a handful of friends together on a whim at any time of the day to come help you, and you're definitely not strong enough for Primordial Longu Bloodclaw. (Let alone willing to go suicide in Lootable PVP), but you are still willing to do all of the category 1/2/3, miner and crafting dailies for some reason.

Now you're looking at 387 days.

But wait, what if you don't feel like hunting random stuff that has horrible spawns, can only be found at FOMA/CP/Taxed LA/Lootable PVP, and you're also not interested in crafting useless items and mining useless resources?

You're now looking at between 600-1000 days, even though you're still doing the majority of your daily hunters, just excluding some of the stupid/annoying ones, and still doing crafting bonuses and mining bonuses, and still doing argonaut cave and feffoid cave. This is still several hours a day of work.

Yeah...... no thanks.

So who's even going to work towards this? A select handful of uber avatars?

Absolutely no way, it is completely and totally not worth all this time, cost, and effort for them, and they don't need this coat at all, maybe a few will half assedly work on it here and there and get their coat 2-4 years from now. It would be a terrible, wasteful move for them to put any effort towards it at all.

If the coats have the adjustments made to them that I mentioned previously they could be a fun, hard, but realistic goal for most players who are willing to check out the Daily Terminal on Calypso.

That's what I want to see, it's what everyone should want to see. It's in Mindark's best interest to get people playing their game, it's in the player's best interests to have goals to work towards and things to give them motivation and allow them to have fun with Mindark's product.
 
Darkaruki said:
I currently have several hundred daily tokens in my storage and I have checked for them every 16 hours for a very long time, I have avoided buying almost any (L) guns for a long time using this tactic, I am very aware of how little/much daily tokens can be obtained and at what rate, but just to prove my point, here are the nitty gritty details:

1.625 Daily Hunter Category 1 Weighted Mean
2.815 Daily Hunter Category 2 Weighted Mean
3.767 Daily Hunter Category 3 Weighted Mean
2.727 Daily Manufacturer Weighted Mean
2.588 Daily Miner Weighted Mean
1 Argonaut Cave
1 Feffoid Cave
4 Feffoid Camp
6 Bloodclaw

25.52 Daily tokens per day on average is the maximum average, assuming you are strong enough to take down stuff like mulaak'f, primordial longu slayer/bloodclaw, daspletor, kreltin broods, and willing to hunt stuff that can only be found in taxed like globster, miner bot, second entity, chomper, etc.

Feffoid Camp is not a bad source of daily tokens as well, but it will very soon be near abandoned and be practically impossible for anybody to solo outside, again, well prepared uber avatars with uber gear.

The minimum average time it will take to obtain 6000 daily tokens is a modest 235 days as an extremely uber skilled avatar with a LOT of ped to waste on travelling, tax, hunting garbage mobs, crafting random useless items for no reason, mining worthless resources, not to mention the insane time investment.

Let's say you're not strong enough to solo Feffoid Camp, and can't get a handful of friends together on a whim at any time of the day to come help you, and you're definitely not strong enough for Primordial Longu Bloodclaw. (Let alone willing to go suicide in Lootable PVP), but you are still willing to do all of the category 1/2/3, miner and crafting dailies for some reason.

Now you're looking at 387 days.

But wait, what if you don't feel like hunting random stuff that has horrible spawns, can only be found at FOMA/CP/Taxed LA/Lootable PVP, and you're also not interested in crafting useless items and mining useless resources?

You're now looking at between 600-1000 days, even though you're still doing the majority of your daily hunters, just excluding some of the stupid/annoying ones, and still doing crafting bonuses and mining bonuses, and still doing argonaut cave and feffoid cave. This is still several hours a day of work.

Yeah...... no thanks.

So who's even going to work towards this? A select handful of uber avatars?

Absolutely no way, it is completely and totally not worth all this time, cost, and effort for them, and they don't need this coat at all, maybe a few will half assedly work on it here and there and get their coat 2-4 years from now. It would be a terrible, wasteful move for them to put any effort towards it at all.

If the coats have the adjustments made to them that I mentioned previously they could be a fun, hard, but realistic goal for most players who are willing to check out the Daily Terminal on Calypso.

That's what I want to see, it's what everyone should want to see.
Click to expand...

I think its reasonable rate to get something that represent true effort and commitment.
Whats the fun if everyone have one? Besides, someone can get it and you can buy it from them (just assume they can be traded)
 
krogfan said:
This is a generational thing I guess, if it doesnt fit me it must be the thing thats wrong??

Its a novel thing and a reason for many enough players to habe a reason to do dailys and to actually be like a real trophy to the owner of one of those coats. If its easily attainable then theres no real value of getting it :)
Click to expand...

I don't see how you can call anywhere between a few months for the most hardcore up to a year or two for only semi hardcore grinders, if they changed the cost like I suggest, to be easily attainable.

Especially when they would still be giving up tons and tons of free CDF Edition guns by opting for working towards the coats, which benefits the economy, and you personally, by getting more people buying Armatrix and the like.

Vagrant said:
I think its reasonable rate to get something that represent true effort and commitment.
Whats the fun if everyone have one? Besides, someone can get it and you can buy it from them (just assume they can be traded)
Click to expand...

They cannot be traded, none of the daily token items can be traded, and by having the effort required be this insane they are driving away players who would otherwise feel motivated to work towards this, completely defeating the entire purpose you are mentioning here, which I do agree with.
 
Coats seem well priced. They are a new buff slot not taken up by anything (apart from capes?) - much more useful than hermetic rings. They also don't decay - much more useful than bunnies.

They shouldn't be easy to get, but even with you stressing that they are impossible to get, I'd say you'll see people running about in them by early 2018. Potentially sooner, as you don't know how many daily tokens people have in their inventories - there were a lot of people who offered gel services for the faps - MA surely know these numbers and the true generation rate of tokens.

For all the problems MA have introduced recently, the calypso development is interesting and seems well balanced.
 
I think these coats are intended to be very exclusive items for those who choose to dedicate a lot of time and effort to getting them. I wouldn't expect more than a handful of people to ever have them, and I wouldn't expect those people to be the "usual suspects", or uber players, because those people aren't likely to want to spend their time killing Snablesnots and such every day for a few extra tokens.

For once it's not just about spending PEDs or having uber gear, it's about making an effort to work towards a goal. There should be more of those types of goals in EU.
 
Nvm - nothing to do with this topic
 
Oleg said:
I think these coats are intended to be very exclusive items for those who choose to dedicate a lot of time and effort to getting them. I wouldn't expect more than a handful of people to ever have them, and I wouldn't expect those people to be the "usual suspects", or uber players, because those people aren't likely to want to spend their time killing Snablesnots and such every day for a few extra tokens.

For once it's not just about spending PEDs or having uber gear, it's about making an effort to work towards a goal. There should be more of those types of goals in EU.
Click to expand...

It actually is about having uber gear when Feffoid Camp, Bloodclaw, and a large portion of Hunting Category 3 is extremely hard/impossible for non-ubers, making up a large share of the tokens that can be obtained each day inaccessible to the majority of players.

You're right though, it's not only about having uber gear, it's about having uber gear and also committing 3-6 hours every day for 300-1000 days straight to repeatedly doing daily stuff, as opposed to just playing the game like a normal human being.

Why not cut that down to 100-300 days?
or maybe 200-600 days?

I've heard of long term daily goals in other MMOs before, but this takes the cake by a huge margin, and considering the reward, it's certainly not worth the level of effort needed.

Do you really think Messi, Smilgs, Linzey, Sokolade, Joda, etc are even going to waste 200-300 days going to bloodclaw, feffoid camp, argonaut cave, feffoid cave every single day, wasting their time mining useless resources, wasting their money crafting useless items, going to FOMA just to kill 10 daspletors or 50 cornoanterions, etc

there's literally no way, it's a complete and total waste of their time.

so the realistic time frame is somewhere between a MINIMUM of 2-3 years for the only players silly enough to try to complete this challenge, knowing the ubers won't bother with it.
 
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Wouldn't it be great if Mercedes Benz would lower their car prices to one third of what they charge now so more people could afford one or two or more? Yeah, that would be awesome.[/sarcasm]
 
Optimator said:
Wouldn't it be great if Mercedes Benz would lower their car prices to one third of what they charge now so more people could afford one or two or more? Yeah, that would be awesome.[/sarcasm]
Click to expand...

This isn't an expensive car you're buying, it's an item they added to an MMO to incentivize players to work towards it, to generate activity in their game, except they made it ridiculously time consuming enough to acquire that many players who would have otherwise been motivated will not be interested in attempting to work towards the item, defeating the purpose of this otherwise sound business move.

Players who would have been motivated by a hard goal. Players who are not very motivated by a nearly impossible goal. Players who only have one lifetime to live on this planet.

Your analogy makes no sense.
 
Oleg said:
...

For once it's not just about spending PEDs or having uber gear, it's about making an effort to work towards a goal. There should be more of those types of goals in EU.
Click to expand...

I don't mind working towards a goal. Hell, it even motivates me. So that part is not the problem.

But at my going rate of 2 tokens average per day it takes nearly 10 years.
Now that i don't mind either since I've already been here that long.
The problem might arise if they're limited.
Imagine, working on a 10 year goal only to find them out of stock when you have finally collected all needed tokens.
Now that would suck!!
 
Iam noob, but from what I observed here on pcf, was there during last 10+ years some new feature or stuff where some ppl didn't cry for or wasn't bitching around? :-D

If you don't have skills and/or equip and don't want to do it for three years, just don't do it. :lecture:
Getting that UL arkadian plane for daily missions also took fair ammount of time and its much worser item.
What do you want? Coat in two months for every noob? Come on, its not WOW and at least for me I'm glad it isn't.

I will always have respect for those who will get one of those coats.
Pardon my gramma.

GL&HF

Electra
 
I need $ said:
Iam noob, but from what I observed here on pcf, was there during last 10+ years some new feature or stuff where some ppl didn't cry for or wasn't bitching around? :-D

If you don't have skills and/or equip and don't want to do it for three years, just don't do it. :lecture:
Getting that UL arkadian plane for daily missions also took fair ammount of time and its much worser item.
What do you want? Coat in two months for every noob? Come on, its not WOW and at least for me I'm glad it isn't.

I will always have respect for those who will get one of those coats.
Pardon my gramma.

GL&HF

Electra
Click to expand...

What a BS reaction. Very lame, name calling.
Has nothing to do with lack of skills or gear...or being noob as you call it. Just a lack of time since I have a real life as well. Understand?
 
I need $ said:
Iam noob, but from what I observed here on pcf, was there during last 10+ years some new feature or stuff where some ppl didn't cry for or wasn't bitching around? :-D

If you don't have skills and/or equip and don't want to do it for three years, just don't do it. :lecture:
Getting that UL arkadian plane for daily missions also took fair ammount of time and its much worser item.
What do you want? Coat in two months for every noob? Come on, its not WOW and at least for me I'm glad it isn't.

I will always have respect for those who will get one of those coats.
Pardon my gramma.

GL&HF

Electra
Click to expand...

If the coats took a third as much time as they did currently they would still take a year or two for a noob doing every daily he can every single day.

It would also still take 3-4 months for an uber doing every single possible daily every single day for those 3-4 months

:dunce:

 
For sure and I understand , but maybe someone else besides you have enough free time to collect it...
I write unmature bs and I can live with it, but you are pretty selfish, thats what I see in yours reaction, no offence :D
 
I need $ said:
For sure and I understand , but maybe someone else besides you have enough free time to collect it...
I write unmature bs and I can live with it, but you are pretty selfish, thats what I see in yours reaction, no offence :D
Click to expand...

How is it selfish? I see this as a business strategy from Mindark and I think it's a good, but poorly executed one that they should rethink to capture the interest of more of their players.

I'm not a shareholder or CEO of Mindark, just a player who wants to see the game do well, giving my suggestion on the forum for the game.
 
I'll just patiently to see who gets one first and if they feel it was worth it, I don't think they will be we will see. Not going to be seeing one for some time and it's going to purely be a status symbol
 
Darkaruki said:
I currently have several hundred daily tokens in my storage and I have checked for them every 16 hours for a very long time, I have avoided buying almost any (L) guns for a long time using this tactic, I am very aware of how little/much daily tokens can be obtained and at what rate, but just to prove my point, here are the nitty gritty details:

1.625 Daily Hunter Category 1 Weighted Mean
2.815 Daily Hunter Category 2 Weighted Mean
3.767 Daily Hunter Category 3 Weighted Mean
2.727 Daily Manufacturer Weighted Mean
2.588 Daily Miner Weighted Mean
1 Argonaut Cave
1 Feffoid Cave
4 Feffoid Camp
6 Bloodclaw

25.52 Daily tokens per day on average is the maximum average, assuming you are strong enough to take down stuff like mulaak'f, primordial longu slayer/bloodclaw, daspletor, kreltin, aurli broods, etc, and willing to hunt stuff that can only be found in taxed like globster, miner bot, second entity, chomper, etc.

Feffoid Camp is not a bad source of daily tokens as well, but it will very soon be near abandoned and be practically impossible for anybody to solo outside, again, well prepared uber avatars with uber gear.

The minimum average time it will take to obtain 6000 daily tokens is a modest 235 days as an extremely uber skilled avatar with a LOT of ped to waste on travelling, tax, hunting garbage mobs, crafting random useless items for no reason, mining worthless resources, not to mention the insane time investment.

Let's say you're not strong enough to solo Feffoid Camp, and can't get a handful of friends together on a whim at any time of the day to come help you, and you're definitely not strong enough for Primordial Longu Bloodclaw. (Let alone willing to go suicide in Lootable PVP), but you are still willing to do all of the category 1/2/3, miner and crafting dailies for some reason.

Now you're looking at 387 days.

But wait, what if you don't feel like hunting random stuff that has horrible spawns, can only be found at FOMA/CP/Taxed LA/Lootable PVP, and you're also not interested in crafting useless items and mining useless resources?

You're now looking at between 600-1000 days, even though you're still doing the majority of your daily hunters, just excluding some of the stupid/annoying ones, and still doing crafting bonuses and mining bonuses, and still doing argonaut cave and feffoid cave. This is still several hours a day of work.

Yeah...... no thanks.

So who's even going to work towards this? A select handful of uber avatars?

Absolutely no way, it is completely and totally not worth all this time, cost, and effort for them, and they don't need this coat at all, maybe a few will half assedly work on it here and there and get their coat 2-4 years from now. It would be a terrible, wasteful move for them to put any effort towards it at all.

If the coats have the adjustments made to them that I mentioned previously they could be a fun, hard, but realistic goal for most players who are willing to check out the Daily Terminal on Calypso.

That's what I want to see, it's what everyone should want to see. It's in Mindark's best interest to get people playing their game, it's in the player's best interests to have goals to work towards and things to give them motivation and allow them to have fun with Mindark's product.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the analysis I was looking for, thx +rep
 
I will likely be collecting fewer daily tokens after this change.

Here's why: I was maintaining a stack of 300+ tokens just in case something good is added to the vendor. As this decreases the probability something else good will come out, I'm going to spend those tokens and not bother replacing them.

The price on coats is probably more or less adequate but limited availability is not. At least one variation needs to be available in unlimited numbers (e.g. first 20 people can get a green coat, everyone else can get a grey coat).

Also, them being coats instead of, say, 'boots of speed' tells me they're targeting people who want to show off.

tl;dr: rat is not excited.
 
It is a novelty item (sure + accel blah blah), MA doesn't expect everyone to be able to get one lol.

A reward for the most dedicated. If everyone could get one it'd be kinda lame.
 
Darkaruki said:
I already own a Hermetic Ring,
Click to expand...
In that case you should be interested in raising the cost of the coats, not lowering it :). Because I'm certainly not ok with their existence but at current cost it's tolerable.

It takes 1 year of non-stop dailies to get the Ark's dropship and they already destroyed the value on CDF choppers.
 
Or they could increase the number of daily missions available. :eureka:
 
Well, overall, i think the reward are way better than arkadia one.
I still think there are somewhat similar , comittment and such, yet people here complain about decent coats while on arkadia they were praising oratans for a dropship.
Suck that i have maybe 2 daily tokens.. One coat should cost one token.
 
Xen said:
Or they could increase the number of daily missions available. :eureka:
Click to expand...

Yes, that could be a solution.
But it could create an unbalance with the daily token weapons.
To many tokens and getting weapons would get to easy :scratch2:
 
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