observations regarding overkill

I did a few more tests on overkilling small mobs (punys). i have used several different guns which all one shot the punys. i am looking at full cost per shot (so decay + ammo cost).
i killed different 10 hp punys on different planets. and i killed thousands of em.

it seems that the maximum, non multiplied loot on a puny with no evades (this is important) is 12 pec. i used guns with total costs of 12 pec, 15 pec 22 pec and a little over 40 pec per shot and on all these guns it was always 12 pec as maximum. even on the 22 and 40 pec guns. when being a lot over these 12 pec per kill the return seems to be on the higher end of the return scale though. what i mean with this is if we assume the loot would end between 1 and 12 pec the average should be around 6 - 7 pec but when using 22 and 40 pec guns on them the average seems to be higher. i got very rarely loots of 5 pec and even rarer below but very usual loots of 8-10 pec with the 22 pec gun.

also it seems that due to this "restriction" of max non multiplied loot i get more small multiplier to make up for this. the overall return varies between 90 and 110% on a large enough sample size so there must be a coping mechanism when getting max 12 pec on a 22 pec gun. this seems to be the amount of small multis.
also the minimum multiplier, afaik, is 3x. but with the 22 pec gun i got loots of 36 pec and 42 pec despite that they shouldnt be possible regarding cost to kill. so this means the cost to kill has a cap but the overall return still gets upped due to multipliers.

also interesting is that the only time im getting non multiplied loots of more than 12 pec are the ones with evades. for every evade the puny 10 hp mob does the loot cap got raised by 12 pec. so mobs with 1 evade can drop up to 24 pec and 2 evades 36 pec and so on. and thats the new angle point for the multiplier calculation, if getting one.

these are my observations so far. any ideas about it?

sounds about right compared to what I was seeing when I was doing the puny mission too. As far as getting back more than the cost of the kill, main reason that seems to happen is when 'bonus shrapnel' and/or 'lets pay out a little L rifle or rocket launcher bonus' wave comes to town... in those waves if you are killing faster than your brother next to you you'll get a better reward since you may get more than one of those wave loots due to hitting the 'right time' part of the algorithm faster than he does.... so overkill helps you find more mini waves, yes, but overall won't help in long terms.... also I think the armor and fap decay do heavily contribute to getting the shrapnel bonus.... and actually think buffs play a role in that too.... so don't be so quick to tt all those pills just yet if you haven't done it yet.

as far as timing it for the waves, it's very similar to the way it worked pre loot 2.0, but is more 'hidden' more like skimming a rock on top of the water rather than surfing a wave... the waves are there, but you won't 'know it' until those extra little things show up in loot that don't normally like the extra shrapnel and L guns, etc. Also, I have a theory that the 'bonus buff' that comes around hourly is somehow associated with the wave, as it typically seems to hit within x amount of minutes prior to or after you see a gloabal wave type thing in chat, etc.... If it's before or after or in the middle of the 'wave' time is hard to say really, but it does seem that there's a bit of a pattern to it.... and that the pattern is observable enough that Mindark may be using that as a partial excuse to say 'this ain't gambling'

I've posted my results from this sort of test in the past and most just thought I was .

Xen said:

I've posted my results from this sort of test in the past and most just thought I was .

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Some people are too stuck on the importance of their own opinion that they do not let it develop further with other people's inputs... Just don't stop posting though, there are supporters and people who take notes!

I had 50 ped left on my xeno knife/trauma VII combo. So I hit level 2 drones at the orthos rig. Hitting 30 ish HP mobs with a 110 dmg per swing knife is not a great Idea.
But I got a 15 ped global and plenty of 3-7 pedders.
Return was around 75 ped.

Spawn said:

I had 50 ped left on my xeno knife/trauma VII combo. So I hit level 2 drones at the orthos rig. Hitting 30 ish HP mobs with a 110 dmg per swing knife is not a great Idea.
But I got a 15 ped global and plenty of 3-7 pedders.
Return was around 75 ped.

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Interresting

Me Really Never said:

i killed different 10 hp punys on different planets. and i killed thousands of em.

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Did you get any hides (where applicable)?

(Background: there is a 4 pec puny somewhere in the universe that potentially drops 6 pec hides. I tried overkilling it, and while I got higher baseloot, all I got was shrap. )

(Disclaimer: if the above test yielded positive results, I'd likely talk to support but for negative result there's nothing to do)

Me Really Never said:

...
also the minimum multiplier, afaik, is 3x. but with the 22 pec gun i got loots of 36 pec and 42 pec despite that they shouldnt be possible regarding cost to kill. so this means the cost to kill has a cap but the overall return still gets upped due to multipliers.
...
these are my observations so far. any ideas about it?

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Nice observations. On the above part I understand you to mean there is a cap on the non-multi returns, regardless of cost to kill being over, but that this return cap (12 pecs) can still be multied.
The cost to kill does not have a cap as such, but is based on your weap.

I'm still trying to fathom out how loot quality plays into things now, but punys are maybe not a great playground for checking this out, except at the bad end of things, i.e. full shrap or slight mix.

Haruto Rat said:

Did you get any hides (where applicable)?

(Background: there is a 4 pec puny somewhere in the universe that potentially drops 6 pec hides. I tried overkilling it, and while I got higher baseloot, all I got was shrap. )

(Disclaimer: if the above test yielded positive results, I'd likely talk to support but for negative result there's nothing to do)

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on my tests it seemed to be that when my cost to kill reaches approx 200% of the optimal cost to kill (regarding 3 dpp) the loot goes into shrapnel only. below that thresshold i get every possible loot of said mob. when the mob evades, and thus the cost to kill go up naturally (without using too high damage gun or too uneco gun) then the "optimal" cost to kill still stays the same. which means that when you use a normal 3 dpp gun on a 12 hp mob, that does 6 damage on average that means you would need 2 shots and would be on optimal side and receive full loot, but when the mob evades twice, then you are above 200% of those optimal costs and the return will be shrapnel only.
im quite certain that they will change this 200% thresshold some day and lower it but as it is right now this means that finishers are basically worthless, especially regarding the amount of time needed to switch + the lower damage and possible mob heal.
on very low mobs the 200% thresshold may be reached due to evades only, but on mobs with like 300-600hp there shouldnt be a problem, if you are not using a fully stacked terminator

Me Really Never said:

that finishers are basically worthless, especially regarding the amount of time needed to switch + the lower damage and possible mob heal.

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The one exception to this that I can think of is taming... where finisher is sometimes necessary if you do want the tame instead of the kill... alternatively, you could just sit and wait for mob to heal back up for the higher damage whip, but that can be a lengthy process, and may not work if the taming bars go down too low while the mob does that.