Help: Whinning thread.

SSN

Old Alpha
Joined
May 8, 2012
Posts
712
Location
France
Society
ATL
Avatar Name
Pitivier Baguette Aden
At least it is clear.

Some people i talk with in game find it weird, some simply do not believe me.
How the fuck can i have under 70% TT return ?
Please no bullsh*t like, do bigger run, its wave, blabla.

Multiplier happen rarely, but i guess it is normal, what is not normal is my hit rate.
I heard people that i should have 25-30%, god, if i had a hit rate like that i would profit, a lot.
I wonder if someone else had this kind of mining problem in the past or have it right now.

Another wierd thing, getting VIII claim with a D-class ( similar to level 8 ) , i'm suposed to have those claim with a level 5, and i checked, i have the D-class on me.

I send a support ticket 5 min ago and now i wait. I asked for investigations because this is so f*cking weird.
How return ( in TT ) can be so damn low, yes i QQ, a lot.

However, hunting work perfectly,no weird shit or weird return.
" then go to hunt ya bastard"
I'm suposed to do what i like in decent condition ( the same as other, according to other people experience and return that i have been told )

Main question : does someone had this problem and have been solved ?
 
"Thank you for contacting us. We remind you that the Entropia Universe is designed to be dynamic and this affects all areas, including the loot system. With that in mind we thank you for your deposits and participation in the universe.

A lot of factors can have an influence in TT returns these includes the economy in general, the market forces that drive it and how you match your skills and equipment efficiently. Please keep depositing as your misfortunes may turn around at any time!

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support"
 
At least it is clear.


Another wierd thing, getting VIII claim with a D-class ( similar to level 8 ) , i'm suposed to have those claim with a level 5, and i checked, i have the D-class on me.

That's a normal minimum for a D-class. What's the TT value though of the claims? A lot of times, you'll get some variation where you get a streak that's just below the threshold to go up to the next claim size.
 
At least it is clear.

Some people i talk with in game find it weird, some simply do not believe me.
How the fuck can i have under 70% TT return ?
Please no bullsh*t like, do bigger run, its wave, blabla.

Multiplier happen rarely, but i guess it is normal, what is not normal is my hit rate.
I heard people that i should have 25-30%, god, if i had a hit rate like that i would profit, a lot.
I wonder if someone else had this kind of mining problem in the past or have it right now.

Another wierd thing, getting VIII claim with a D-class ( similar to level 8 ) , i'm suposed to have those claim with a level 5, and i checked, i have the D-class on me.

I send a support ticket 5 min ago and now i wait. I asked for investigations because this is so f*cking weird.
How return ( in TT ) can be so damn low, yes i QQ, a lot.

However, hunting work perfectly,no weird shit or weird return.
" then go to hunt ya bastard"
I'm suposed to do what i like in decent condition ( the same as other, according to other people experience and return that i have been told )

Main question : does someone had this problem and have been solved ?

Allow me to assist. Put your amp in storage, put your finder in storage, buy a little rookie finder an md-1 and try Mining with Fermat.

The way it works is simple.... in the YELLOW cells marked "Start Here", place the coordinates of where you activated your nice new and shiny md1, set the tool to find both ores and entmatter, and enter the number of probes into the "Number of Probes remaining" cell.

Next enter your current coordinate, so at the beginning of the run it will be the same as start here, into the YELLOW "Search From" cells. Next part is very important, from d and e5 downwards you should have a set of coordinates, move to one of those coordinates and drop a probe, update the probes remaining.

If you hit, right click on the cells that show the coordinates select copy, select the YELLOW "Search from" X and Y coordinate cells and right click, paste special, values. The distance column will change showing you how far you are from each of the points that are remaining. Pick another set of coordinates and mine there.

When you miss.... Enter the coordinates of your miss into both the "Start Here" and "Search Here" Cells.

I have found that the best way to use this is to mine the last coordinate or the coordinate with the largest distance first as it will disappear when you update the sheet.

If this works as well for you as it does for me, you could then move onto a different tool, just update your tool radius on the sheet.

This sheet should serve as an introduction illustrating what is possible with this kind of mining grid.

If there are any questions please pm me and I will try and answer them
 
Some people i talk with in game find it weird, some simply do not believe me.

It happens. Nothing weird about it at all. I've been at around 60-70% TT return in my last ~2k drops. Mining swings can be brutal.

Only advice I can give is to ditch the amps until your returns stabilize. I know unamped mining is boring. But there are no guarantees in Entropia, best to take the safe route if you're not comfortable with heavy losses.

Usually my returns have stabilized (worst case scenario) at around 5k-6k drops.

Eventually you'll hit a nice multiplier. Probably :cool:
 
"Whinny" is the sound a horse makes. Good advice has been given a million times - when you're losing too much money, try something else or cut back your activities or stop altogether and test the waters occasionally until it becomes affordable again. The most powerful countermeasure to losses is taking control over your own addictions, and the only way to send a message to the powers that be. Otherwise they must think you're happy the way it is as long as you keep pouring money into the sinkhole. I'd also like to hunt bigger again, but right now it's not feasible while at the same time I'm on a winning streak with a rather unnerving, low-level mob. I understand that in mining, the threshold has always been a bit higher, but if a sample of, say, 50 probes doesn't give any joy I'd call it a day. Prime times for deposits like at the start of a weekend (consider time zones) often trickle down nicely, is my observation. That's the moment to try again after a bad streak.
 
Thanks for the advice, i have to admit that i should stop when i get this " bad streak".
But i don't believe it will come back and give back loot. There is no personal pool for mining, what i have lost if looted by someone else. The same guy got 2 x4k in 2 days, gz to him, but still, that where the money goes.

I tried unamped, this is seriously the same result. That was 2 small 300 peds run, but it gave me an idea. Right now, i'll keep the number for myself, but for those who want, i can share the number. TT in vs TT out, the MU is a separated log, even with MU i'm in the red. I wonder where this 95%+ some people told me come from.

I think my avatar is not for mining, never wanted to admit it.

Best thing to do is to mine less, or stopping. simple question : do you stop dropping when like 10 NRF or so ? or changing the area ?
 
Thanks for the advice, i have to admit that i should stop when i get this " bad streak".
But i don't believe it will come back and give back loot. There is no personal pool for mining, what i have lost if looted by someone else. The same guy got 2 x4k in 2 days, gz to him, but still, that where the money goes.

I tried unamped, this is seriously the same result. That was 2 small 300 peds run, but it gave me an idea. Right now, i'll keep the number for myself, but for those who want, i can share the number. TT in vs TT out, the MU is a separated log, even with MU i'm in the red. I wonder where this 95%+ some people told me come from.

I think my avatar is not for mining, never wanted to admit it.

Best thing to do is to mine less, or stopping. simple question : do you stop dropping when like 10 NRF or so ? or changing the area ?

WTF... 2 small 300 ped runs .... Geez dude thats overkill..

If u are not even willing to TRY the excel sheet that I have suggested, will you allow me to demonstrate it to you sometime ?

Yes 95% is very possible... I will be starting a thread showing some very interesting math regarding mining efficiency.

As I learn more and more about the system and how it works, I have come to realize that NRFs are a part of it. It's all about timing. If an area is bad, change areas or logoff.... Simple. With regards to when to change areas, I think it depends on your mining style, personally I would use 3 probes as a limit, if I did not know what I was doing / have a plan, like following or testing an excel predictive mining sheet for example...
 
WTF... 2 small 300 ped runs .... Geez dude thats overkill..

If u are not even willing to TRY the excel sheet that I have suggested, will you allow me to demonstrate it to you sometime ?

Yes 95% is very possible... I will be starting a thread showing some very interesting math regarding mining efficiency.

As I learn more and more about the system and how it works, I have come to realize that NRFs are a part of it. It's all about timing. If an area is bad, change areas or logoff.... Simple. With regards to when to change areas, I think it depends on your mining style, personally I would use 3 probes as a limit, if I did not know what I was doing / have a plan, like following or testing an excel predictive mining sheet for example...

i just had a mining run, that started with a hit and then 14 NRF in a row. then i did hit a sizeable (+-30 ped) and in the enxt 20 drops i hit one again. at the end of the mining run (300 drops) i did hit a small global as well. with your tactics you wouldve stopped and lost money at the NRF streak. but i did just continue to carpet bomb and the loot came. a nice tt profit run despite a horrible beginning. im dead serious but your attempt on doing mining with 5-10 drops per run are bullshit. and you cant make any theory out of that few drops.
just a hint: if you always run in a spiral, your resources will only come in a spiral. if you drop while walking a circle, your resources will have the shape of a circle. and if you run zigzag you will see that the claims form a zigzag shape. but if you just carpet bomb, you will see that there is no pattern.

i mean if your bullshit theory would work and you would have a nice high hitrate then why do you cry that you dont have enough auction slots to sell your shit? just fuckign tt it and go out and tt profit easily with your "theory"...
 
i have to admit that i should stop when i get this " bad streak".

Hi there,

In general, "stop when getting a bad streak" sounds like a good advice, but there are a few important buts. The point is that "bad streak" in itself is a sort of gambling fallacy, because it implies the opposite being also true, "good streak". The important threshold is basically if you should push through. The answer would come from another basic idea, wether personal loot pool exists. As it was already stated by MA, I believe they don't.

Then as a matter of principle, you need a model after which to mine. That is to construct for yourself a definition of "good", "bad, "push through" etc.

In my view, over an unlimited number of events with an unlimited budget, you can mine anyway you like, as much as you like per day, at maximum turnover possible and you will be fine.

But these things don't exist, in real life we are limited by time, skills, budget, MU, presence/absence of mobs, speed of sales pvp or via auction etc.

As you put it, the problem is the budget. Pushing through in bad times might put the return in a situation of irreversible damage. I wholeheartly suggest reading atomicstorm's thread about "risk of ruin". It doesn't matter the actual discipline, is about getting a grasp of where to can you actually insist in a given situation. Even when is good.

In a bit more practical terms about what you wrote, with apologies for the lengthy introduction.

Average hitrate: 30,x%. Average size of find: small (on the lower end, 3,x or so tt). This would be the static result if you would average over hundreds of thousands of drops.

"Bad": 25% hitrate or less, BUT also with average size lower than 3x. Because, at 25% hitrate but with regular average find, you are in a situation where a reasonable situation (unamped "large" or "abundant") would balance the situation.

"Good": 40% hitrate with average finds. You're cashing in, pray for good droprate of 120% MU, a global or hof is bling-bling all the way to auction.

"Fantastic": 40%+ hitrate with globals left and right. It might happen a couple times per year, if you're counting on this, you're a hopless gambler.

D-Class has a magnification factor of 4. VIII claim on the higher end is what you're supposed to get as average find (so, 11-12 tt). However, there is a small trick there. Every tier of amps has its own hitrate variation. That is, it is more likely to get 33% hitrate unamped than to get this amped. The more you amp, the lower the hitrate gets. That happens in order to get enough big multipliers to advertise respective amp.

Therefore, there is no such thing as what size of claim you "should" get with an amp. This should be judged based on, mainly, experience. Only after tens of thousands of drops with same cost you'll be able to judge what is regular and what is exceptional for each tier and what can you expect.

Just for your info, the smallest possible mining find is actually "minimal" (up to 0,5 tt). While this is obfuscated and redistributed when mining unamped, it will appear when mining amped. So, if you get a "very poor" or "poor" with D-Class you didn't broke the game, you're just seeing the minimum possible. Also keep in mind that D-Class a magnification factor of 4 for ores, but for enmatter that is actually 8. This should happen though exceptionally rare, but from this perspective your VIII claims don't look so alien anymore, I think.

What you're confusing is "sizes I should get on a regular base" with "sizes I should get when things get good". While is normal for human mind to aim for the good situation, this doesn't mean that your mind has the power to bend reality, so don't be disappointed.

Then, TT in vs TT out is important only on an adequate number of drops. Speaking on lvl5's, so lower than your D-Class, in my experience, 50 amps are not enough to regulate it to the average. That is almost 5k drops and my return rate was roughly 85% tt-wise.+- 1-2%, depend how you judge the finder and excavator.

Just fyi, for a hairline under 50k tt, which I logged for the past two months, I am at 101% or so. Including finder, excavator and refiner decay I am almost suspiciously close to 100%, with a difference of few peds most likely for something logged wrong. For the purpose of this log, I left the tower out, because my suspicion was and is that such high multiplier (6k or so) is akin to a jackpot and out of the regular turnover.

Problem is, the jackpots can also be negative. That is where I am against "pushing through". I prefer the more easily reproductible roleplaying mining, where "if there are no finds here, thef*ck am I doing here??".

Lastly, your quoted runs are abysmail in size and you are exclusively gambling. 300 ped tt turnover is nothing even unamped. In order to qualify as a "run", even unamped I am looking at roughly 5-600.

For a practical advice: switch planets. Pick a mining habit which you can sustain. You should have cash for at least 2k drops to mitigate a bit the tt variation. This is unamped. For each level of amping, I would adjust the budget 1,5x. That is, 3k drops with lvl2, 4,5k drops with lvl3 etc. Lvl5 amps I would say 10k drops. If in 5k drops I didn't saw the expected tt return (98-99%tt), I would believe with 10k I am not exagerate. Be the judge where D-Class should stay, in my view. And that is drops, not tt.

This would be for perpetual amping. Of course you can develop for yourself a style where you "pick-up" or "drop" amps as zpf wrote, but then if you'd see that working (or rather if you'd know when and what) this thread wouldn't be here.

Of course, mandatory LBML to be sure you're not overlapping. Also for hitrate, don't count on your personal perception. Hope there is at least one line helpful in what I wrote. gl!
 
Last edited:
Buying all your D-Class for 105%
 
To reply above, when i said i tried 300 peds unamped, thats nothing compared to my previous resulst, i run mostly amped. 5 7 8 whatever...
Just to clarify i'm not QQing for a 300 peds turnover, way more since i'm back. ( less than a week ) , i don't count hunting.

Edit : 25% hit rate bad... lmao if i had that !
30% seem normal,trust me i wish i had this hit rate...
And 101% return, thats sound so crazy, i think if i want to play this game, i must forget mining forever, been years that i have such low result, i don't aim for tower or whatever, just decent f*cking result. and not depo 500 usd every week because i loose it all

Expecting 98 99% TT return as you said is pure insanity to me, i will never have those result. Even on 10k drop of whatever it is. I just stick with the idea that my avatar is not for mining.
 
Last edited:
56,67% return this run. My stupid avatar always will be bugged as fuck anyway.

Thanks for trying to help me but i decided to stop playing, i burn what i have left and stop. I was playing to relax but instead i'm stressed a lot and its not good for my health, this come back was an experience to see how the mining loot was, i got my answer.

It can be close if mod want, as you wish. Good luck everyone and enjoy the 95%+ return, and the normal hit rate, you don't know your chance.
 
56,67% return this run. My stupid avatar always will be bugged as fuck anyway.

Thanks for trying to help me but i decided to stop playing, i burn what i have left and stop. I was playing to relax but instead i'm stressed a lot and its not good for my health, this come back was an experience to see how the mining loot was, i got my answer.

It can be close if mod want, as you wish. Good luck everyone and enjoy the 95%+ return, and the normal hit rate, you don't know your chance.
i need to clarify a thing , mining its not just random drops , and as I saw today random drops just behing of other two players , so its not the game broken its just you not knowing how to mine , if you hunt its good , go hunt.
 
inb4 OP hits 8k of crude oil


Really though, I've lost 27k in two weeks at 64% TT returns in mining... it fucking happens. If you're using d-class amps you better fucking have 10k on your pedcard for outdoors and at least 60k for indoors or you're already setting yourself up for failure.


This is what separates successful miners from those who quit and do something else. Successful miners will go broke and depo and keep dropping until the 20k hits, resulting in 95-105% TT.... bad miners will lose their 4-5k pedcard mining with amps too big and then complain, quit, or switch to shooting kerbs.

Depo, manage your bankroll, and keep dropping. And if you aren't getting 110%+ markup then you're going to have a bad time.

I had 48% TT returns last night on 500 drops outdoors. that's just life.. I'll probably hit 2k of belk or something today.

I'm also reserving my spot for when I get to bitch about my loot pre-tower.
 
I was playing to relax but instead i'm stressed a lot and its not good for my health

That is a very good call man, a bit of chill helps always :)

I'll probably hit 2k of belk or something today.

This made me giggle. Hope you'll extract it with tt extractor :laugh:
 
I will complain when a dry spell lasts too long, too, you may call it whining at times. One needs to let off steam eventually, it makes you feel better and funnily, often the turnaround came right after that. But at such a time I've always slammed the breaks already. When hunting returns don't agree with my budget I scale back until they do, all the way to punies if I must and I don't give a hoot about the hecklers. If I were in OP's shoes I would start all over with a rookie finder and troubleshoot what the hell it is I'm doing wrong, where I have to go or how many drops it takes before I see convergence on the supposed average. Do this with your last 200 peds before you throw in the towel for good. Only then scale up again, after having figured out what kind of amp (or none) you can afford to use with a given bankroll.

But some don't want to be helped and rather insist to stick with their idea that their avatar is cursed or something... Please mate do yourself a favour, if this is not for you then the rest of Entropia probably also isn't. You're bound to lose more money than you're comfortable to spend. Wouldn't be the first nor the last we've witnessed crash and burn.

Is Greenleaf Mining still going? I lack own experience but I keep hearing he is the best tutor out there.
 
Is Greenleaf Mining still going? I lack own experience but I keep hearing he is the best tutor out there.

Greenleaf is on vacation atm. He should be back at the end of this month or early Nov.
 
Try crafting. Cycle 60k with 80% return, quantity, qr100...all the right stuff and get days and weeks of 28% rate from 95% blueprint.

Fucking dynamic my dick
 
Try crafting. Cycle 60k with 80% return, quantity, qr100...all the right stuff and get days and weeks of 28% rate from 95% blueprint.

Fucking dynamic my dick

we all know crafting takes a stupid amount of ped... like 120k for amp crafting... in order to beat the swings and get the high-mu loots
 
It's definitely been more volatile lately. I'm only noob miner who hunts one area so...Buying oa-109s/Terra10s for 120%? :yup:

I'm expecting a big hit soon ^_^

D-class
3000 drops
31% hit
99% TT return
+2342 MU (-900 for amp MU)

Hit % TT Return TT Return %
0.371 786.15 0.98
0.256 521.11 0.65
0.394 888.76 1.11
0.297 608.48 0.76
0.338 725.29 0.91
0.306 897.69 1.12
0.333 700.89 0.88
0.313 658.79 0.82
??? 578.43 0.72
0.356 756.4 0.95
0.288 655.37 0.82
0.289 623.27 0.78
0.338 885.65 1.11
0.288 617.71 0.77
0.327 1223.73 1.53
0.278 648.05 0.81
0.300 675.84 0.84
0.269 543.5 0.68
0.346 835.55 1.04
0.415 852.72 1.07
0.333 690.68 0.86
0.275 2296.99 2.87
0.313 633.38 0.79
0.245 574.32 0.72
0.245 551.53 0.69
0.333 1653.69 2.07
0.220 448.26 0.56
0.285 580.7 0.73
 
+2,3k mu after or before substracting amp MU? And you're doing single or double drop? Curious how would pick up after that ,56

Other than that, rather similar to my experience (which lol is 40k not 50k as I said earlier :laugh: )
 
Last edited:
+2,3k mu after or before substracting amp MU? And you're doing single or double drop? Curious how would pick up after that ,56

Before. Single (double on the last when i remember to)

The .56 came right after a 2.x so I expect this run or next to get some ++
 
It's definitely been more volatile lately. I'm only noob miner who hunts one area so...Buying oa-109s/Terra10s for 120%? :yup:

I'm expecting a big hit soon ^_^

D-class
3000 drops
31% hit
99% TT return
+2342 MU (-900 for amp MU)

Hit % TT Return TT Return %
0.371 786.15 0.98
0.256 521.11 0.65
0.394 888.76 1.11
0.297 608.48 0.76
0.338 725.29 0.91
0.306 897.69 1.12
0.333 700.89 0.88
0.313 658.79 0.82
??? 578.43 0.72
0.356 756.4 0.95
0.288 655.37 0.82
0.289 623.27 0.78
0.338 885.65 1.11
0.288 617.71 0.77
0.327 1223.73 1.53
0.278 648.05 0.81
0.300 675.84 0.84
0.269 543.5 0.68
0.346 835.55 1.04
0.415 852.72 1.07
0.333 690.68 0.86
0.275 2296.99 2.87
0.313 633.38 0.79
0.245 574.32 0.72
0.245 551.53 0.69
0.333 1653.69 2.07
0.220 448.26 0.56
0.285 580.7 0.73


these returns mimic what I see. ~81% TT without the big hits. take away the 200%+ runs and there you have it.
 
these returns mimic what I see. ~81% TT without the big hits. take away the 200%+ runs and there you have it.

Yep, the +TT's are always the bonus I make sure I can survive the hunt w/mu as long as I get a high enough hit rate. I don't have a huge ped stack nor someone i can direct sell my ores too so I'm usually only doing 0, 1 or 2x 800 ped runs a night.

I've had runs where I lose with 2 globals, and profit with none. I know If I could get get 37.5% hit rate It'd be pure profit. I can't grind areas like others can as my extractor is TT :swoon:
 
nice , if you complain you get 6k tower , is should start a complain thread also :wise:
 
nice , if you complain you get 6k tower , is should start a complain thread also :wise:

Did he tower?

If so, grats! Told you it would probably happen :yup:
 
Unfortunately it happens, I also experienced it, here is on of my whining threads:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?298304-Mining-returns

As others have said, the volatility is very high.

What I`ve done was:
I stopped mining, for a few weeks.
I did only hunting, nothing big, only small/ medium mobs, within my budget, until I eventually hit a 700 pedder.
I returned to mining and surprise: I also hit a 500 pedder in my first mining run, with the same tools which I used before.
Afterwards, everything went back to normal.

My advices:
1. whatever you do, stop doing it when you can`t handle the low returns, at least for a while.
2. whatever you do, do it at that level where you`re having fun, and enjoying the experience, even with a 70% tt return.
3. when things go well, keep doing whatever you`re doing.
4. when things go wrong, change activities (hunting, mining or crafting) often; if mining, also change spots often, if hunting, also change mobs often.
 
  • Like
Reactions: San
Back
Top