Crafting A B C, where is Crafting 2.0?

Hi

TLDR; Crafting needs changes.

I'm not big crafter and I know it's all dynamic and long term etc, but some days just suck more than others. I don't think I had a good day or week in crafting in 2017. It's all just expected losses vs unexpected losses, there's no OH YES in crafting anymore.

I craft end products that sell for ~200% MU. For example, I craft a lot of Sleipnirs, which takes 5.04 PED/click and I can sell them for 30 PED. Filler 19 PED TT is residue, has 0 MU. So if I sell that 5.04 PED Sleipnir for 30 PED, click TT 5.04 +~5 PED, it's ~200% in my book.

I expect to lose ~5% in TT value, in long run. My stats around 600k TT in atm.

In spring 2017, april-may, I did some bigger crafting runs and I should of lost ~6k TT (120k cycled), but instead lost ~14k TT. That 8K PED is gone, It's gone for good, I'm used to it. It ate a bunch of my MU profit made from 2016 and a bunch from my totals, but "it's all gone pete tong", whatever, let's move on.

I was back to my usual ~5% TT losses, no spikes up or down, weekly stats look same.

Now it's going down again, multiple weeks in a row where I see 70-80% TT return. 95% blueprint Quantity crafting yielding 27% success rate @ 1000, 5000 whatever clicks. That is just fucking wrong!

Ah, some today crafting. Did ~500 PED TT clicking of some components and went to spend residue it left.

https://imgur.com/a/TUYNp
https://imgur.com/a/a3Fh0
https://imgur.com/a/XjSDa

I managed to craft 57 Sleipnirs in last 200 clicks, you can do the math.

I managed to craft 14 Quads in last 72 clicks. 72 clicks of Quads is about 2880 PED, if I sold the blueprints. Instead I can sell quads and earn a whopping 1400 PED!

I know it's all dynamic, I know it's all long term, but you know what? You can go eat a dick, Mindark. You can go on a virtual meeting and take that VR set from your VP and shove it up his ass. You can take the cables of that VR set and hang yourself.

{DELETED}

I noticed exactly the same... Somtimes 10-15 near succes/fails in a row, it's not normal. This sucks even more if you click L bps that only have 10-20 clicks on them... :/

Killahbee said:

I noticed exactly the same... Somtimes 10-15 near succes/fails in a row, it's not normal. This sucks even more if you click L bps that only have 10-20 clicks on them... :/

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Yea, it's awesome to click expensive blueprints. You get 80% TT return on fucking component crafting and then Quad blueprint drops just to take another spit in your face.

If you don't deposit and do well, by hunting, crafting, whatever...they just go and tinker on your loot, so you get screwed over so bad that you have to deposit.

I mean I'm fucking loosing that ~5% TT to you already, {DELETED}

Such a hyppocrate u are. OMG. U were trying to bash Smilgs for his choices and his "ranting/whining" and u do the same in both hunt and now craft.

Piotr said:

Such a hyppocrate u are. OMG. U were trying to bash Smilgs for his choices and his "ranting/whining" and u do the same in both hunt and now craft.

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Yes, Smilgs is hunting same mob over and over and over on his LA.

I craft end product for what I craft components. I craft everything from ground up.

I get 80% TT on components and huge swings on L prints.

I don't like the fucking system, nor the hunting or crafting part. They did somewhat "fix" hunting, so you don't have to hunt billion ped to get normalized returns on 5000 hp mob. Same thing must be done in crafting.

I can't fucking click 10 000 Quad prints to have my returns normalized. It's not fucking possible.

Current system just sucks dick and bleeding players, because you might hit the bad streak and leave the game. Your return normalization, be it whatever you do, should be shorter, cheaper.

Or I can come back in 2073 and tell you that my Quad prints are now 33% success as expected. Or not, or fuck you, right?

EDIT: And if you {DELETED} think that I only ever craft Sleipnirs, then let me draw you a fucking picture. I craft from vehicles section:

Kismet
Fire of Hel
HMAP-52
AS-35
MAP-13
MMB AS-41

Sleipnir Mk I

Gungnir Mk I

Pitbull Mk I
Pitbull Mk II
Pitbull Mk III
Pitbull Mk IV

Quad-Wing

NO, I do not click 7000 sleipnirs a day like Smilgs is doing with his LA. {DELETED}

Crafting has been screwed over by hunting 2.0 enough already. No Need to make it worse.

Harmony. said:

Crafting has been screwed over by hunting 2.0 enough already. No Need to make it worse.

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Crafting needs changed. Low TT items suffer from rounding, high TT items suffer from huge ass dynamic long term.

Go and click ~100 PED TT items, go click like 20 of them (oh, also gather mats for the clicks about 9 months or so) and get 2 success, then system fucking sucks.

Yes for long term returns, but I can't gather mats for hundreds of years to do 5000 or whatever amount of clicks for Mindarks "normalized" loot. It's not fucking possible.

I will tell you a story about my last noob crafting run ....
simple I plastic springs qr100 (95% succes rate ofc ) started on quantity I had after 50 clicks like 8 success, rest of 6 failed and the rest near succes, switched on condition after 63 clicks I get a near success @1.4 ped , after another 20 or so first succes , and after another 30 clicks one more.
See you in 2018 MA
The end .

NPV said:

If you don't deposit and do well, by hunting, crafting, whatever...they just go and tinker on your loot, so you get screwed over so bad that you have to deposit.

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I've seen no evidence of this in ~3.5 years.

But then, i don't craft much, perhaps some 500...600 clicks a week.

NPV said:

NO, I do not click 7000 sleipnirs a day like Smilgs is doing with his LA. So take your fucking post and shove it up your ass, prick.

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Who mentioned anything about crafting 7k sleipnirs? It was Smilgs choice to do what he did, and its your choice to do the L bps, no different, except hes not a hyppocrate "prick" such as urself. U crying not getting 95% returns? Since i started crafting I logged over 1million peds turnover and im at 91.7% return. Keep whining, it will bring u hofs, proven fact

Haruto Rat said:

I've seen no evidence of this in ~3.5 years.

But then, i don't craft much, perhaps some 500...600 clicks a week.

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Piotr said:

Who mentioned anything about crafting 7k sleipnirs? It was Smilgs choice to do what he did, and its your choice to do the L bps, no different, except hes not a hyppocrate "prick" such as urself. U crying not getting 95% returns? Since i started crafting I logged over 1million peds turnover and im at 91.7% return. Keep whining, it will bring u hofs, proven fact

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I told you, I craft a lot more than L prints, can't you read?

EDIT: Haruto Ra, my post multiquoted or something, not responding to you

NPV said:

I told you, I craft a lot more than L prints, can't you read?

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I could read that u whined about L bps near successes

Piotr said:

I could read that u whined about L bps near successes

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I whine about the need to do 5K, 10K, 100K (or x in TT value) clicks for Mindarks promised "normalized" "dynamic" loot.

Same happens in hunting. Smilgs is hunting 7k hp mobs. His loot sucks.

You know why it sucks? Because Mindarks "normalized" "long term" "dynamic" whatever loot. His returns will be fine, I promise, but since mob has so much HP, he would report his great returns in 2213 and 50billion peds cycled.

Dynamic!

Piotr said:

I could read that u whined about L bps near successes

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You're not fair on this one. A bunch of items are available strictly from L clicks. Armatrix weapons among others. It is not correct, on the highest possible CoS ingame, to have unpredictible outcome. Simple as that.

Kerham said:

You're not fair on this one. A bunch of items are available strictly from L clicks. Armatrix weapons among others. It is not correct, on the highest possible CoS ingame, to have unpredictible outcome. Simple as that.

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It's even worse with blueprints that have rare components.

I literally gathered components for 9 months to do the clicks for a single success. I kept getting near success/failed.

And those near success/failed will return you most fucking common crap from that blueprint, never the rare components.

System has to change. You can't fucking expect every average player, who wants to click 3-10 PED TT value blueprints, to cycle millions of PEDs.

I see my returns normalizing in components sections, when hundreds of thousands of clicks are done. For example basic wires (0.16), standard vents (0.13), they all end up as I expect to end up.

I dare you to click 5 PED Sleipnir for 100 000 times, even 10 000 times. Why not? It's not because we do not have the PED, it's because we don't even have the blueprints. It gets worse and worse with more rare prints.

Try 90 PED/click blueprint near success 5-6 times in a row returning you 2-3 PED, EACH near success. That system is fucking shit. Mindark knows it, but instead working on improving EU, they go and work on some bullshit VR where you can have business meetings using horse heads with real facial emotions.

Come on, you understand how crafting works, you understand how averages go, and you seem to know that MA has a dynamic system that is crap. Yes its a pain and frustrating getting only 14 success in 72 clicks, but it happens, and it happens more often than you have probably seen. Just because its a rare blueprint, doesn't mean you should be getting a higher success rate....It's all part of the gamble.

Besides, why are you paying that much for the blueprint? I have tried the Quad blueprints, sure they are high MU items, but at the prices they sell for, it takes away most if not all of the MU (and then some). Its not even a boosted BP, so your near success are less than what you put in. It is a pure gamble BP where you hope to have golden swirls, nothing more. If its one you got while crafting something else then just sell it, instead of clicking it.

Even some of the boosted BP's are better to sell then to click as people seem to pay stupid amounts for them where there ends up being no profit what so ever. I have a list of the (L) BP's and a fairly accurate formula that I came up with that will tell me if i'm likely to profit or not based on many factors including price i can sell for and mu of items required. If its going to be a negative/break even or just over break even, i will sell the BP instead of clicking it. No point in gambling, might as well just do EP4 if I wanted to do that.

Maybe take a break from crafting for a while, do something else....but look at what MA did with Hunting 2.0 .... do we really want to know what they will do with crafting??? The grass is always greener on the other side, however i doubt it will be good for crafters to have a 2.0 version....despite an overhaul being seriously needed.

Darth Revan said:

Come on, you understand how crafting works, you understand how averages go, and you seem to know that MA has a dynamic system that is crap. Yes its a pain and frustrating getting only 14 success in 72 clicks, but it happens, and it happens more often than you have probably seen. Just because its a rare blueprint, doesn't mean you should be getting a higher success rate....It's all part of the gamble.

Besides, why are you paying that much for the blueprint? I have tried the Quad blueprints, sure they are high MU items, but at the prices they sell for, it takes away most if not all of the MU (and then some). Its not even a boosted BP, so your near success are less than what you put in. It is a pure gamble BP where you hope to have golden swirls, nothing more. If its one you got while crafting something else then just sell it, instead of clicking it.

Even some of the boosted BP's are better to sell then to click as people seem to pay stupid amounts for them where there ends up being no profit what so ever. I have a list of the (L) BP's and a fairly accurate formula that I came up with that will tell me if i'm likely to profit or not based on many factors including price i can sell for and mu of items required. If its going to be a negative/break even or just over break even, i will sell the BP instead of clicking it. No point in gambling, might as well just do EP4 if I wanted to do that.

Maybe take a break from crafting for a while, do something else....but look at what MA did with Hunting 2.0 .... do we really want to know what they will do with crafting??? The grass is always greener on the other side, however i doubt it will be good for crafters to have a 2.0 version....despite an overhaul being seriously needed.

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I got most successes from my bought Quad print and profited @ 350k% price I paid. That was about a year ago. I stop buying expensive prints since my last run where hundreds of clicks "boosted" print yielded 10% success rate and made me lose a ton. But that is super normal in Mindfucks game.

Rest of the Quads I looted myself from 80% TT return component crafting, vehicle components. These fucking Quad prints are for me to break even, but instead I can't even success on these.

It is not fun to craft with 80-90-80-95-80-90-95 (throw in some 20-30% from rare prints) etc returns. If it goes like this, I will barely hit 90% TT return in 2017, while 2016 was 96%.

Or I can hit 15-20k HOF (like all the other noobs do these days) and break even, or more and profit. But if I don't hit it, im screwed. And I don't like getting screwed where you can mathematically calculate your returns, your markups, your profits and conclude, that this is something I can and will do. I refuse to hunt @ higher levels, because I will not invest 10-20k+ whatever $ in a company I do not trust. I do not trust Mindfuck and will probably never do because their system is throwing me few mathematical impossibilities every fucking week.

I used to go and tell new players, disciples etc that game is fine....it's not scam, it's not shady bla bla bla.

{DELETED}

I can see you have strong feelings about this but I would consider 90%TT return pretty high?

Considering all the filling from Metal/Energy, if you craft stuff with MU you should be able to get a profit from that?

I would think the 40+ ArMatrix BPs they gave the community WAS Crafting 2.0?

Disclaimer: I have not done allot of crafting the last years, but I really dont see the problem?

Crafting 2.0 came before Loot 2.0! Lol well my post did...

For anyone interested, check some of the ideas in my post, its long yes, but I promise it contains ideas I have not seen proposed yet on forums. I stay on topic, not much rambling, but its a big problem we cant sum up in a few words.

I would love some more feedback on that post as I surely don't have all of the answers:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?291221-A-Player%92s-Notes-Vol-4-Crafting-2-0!-Explosive-BP%92s-For-the-Rest-of-Us!

In addition, Mindark could do something about traditional crafting returns as well as possibly including some mu% in the return formula.

Please give that link a read, it might give others better ideas than I had, lets build it up!

~008

NPV said:

where hundreds of clicks "boosted" print yielded 10% success rate and made me lose a ton.

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This i think you must be exaggerating on, 10% on hundreds of clicks on boosted bp's is unlikely, unless of course you are doing only 1-10 at a time and at different intervals (or you are gambling condition which i don't think that's what you were doing...if so 10% success is great), then i could see it happening which in that case is your own fault. Even then, a boosted bp will give you more on a near success then you put in...except for the low level ones which their low roll near success are less. However the only way you would lose a ton, is if you over paid for the bp's....like i said, some boosted bp's are not worth the mu people buy them for.

As far as i can tell, your just having a spat...which is fair enough when you have some bad luck. I'm pretty sure if you were getting 50% success then you wouldn't be doing a thread saying, "hey i think something is wrong as i'm getting higher returns then i should be".

Getting 96% tt return in 2016 in crafting is far higher than what you should be expecting, unless of course every single BP you click is QR maxed and your are the required levels above....which is quite possible, but then that means you were 1% over the average, and in crafting that 1% is a fair amount despite still being a loss.

Maybe take a step back and re-evaluate what you are crafting and look for different opportunities. Just because something has been working in the past well, does not mean it will continue.

Don't go telling hunters or miners that your runs go like: 80-90-80-95-80-90-95
Many of them do not even get that....at least you are able to sell many crafted components for the new ArMatrix Bps...well i guess if you switch from vehicle crafting anyway.

Tone of the OP aside, this is a useful description of on-the-ground, day-to-day crafting, and it does need to change, not for reasons of fairness, or anything like, but for simple, practical reasons. There is a deep hunger for crafting among MMO players. Not all of them, but lots of them. Whenever a new Triple A game is announced, the threads fill up with questions about what kind of crafting system it will have. People still talk about SWG. New players would flock to at least try a game with a crafting system that was both deep and meaningful. EU's system is both deep and meaningful, but it's broken, at least as far as new and casual players go, and has problems for even mid-level crafters.

How to fix that for entry level players, I'm not sure. I've resisted the idea for a long time, but maybe it's time to look at crafting ammunition, maybe using sweat.

Crafting ammunition is a bit of a possibility now that the game has switched to a more cost to kill.

If weakness' and resists were applied to all mobs and there was some kind of bonus damage mechanic of using ammo they are weak to.

Would need some careful balancing to not make you too efficient, but leave room for markup and make it worth it to crafters.

my last 2 crafting runs:
Gec Spur 1k Gears: 187 clicks - 65,2% return
Basic Sheet metal: 313 clicks - 67,57% return
quantity crafting *cough*

Overall return in crafting 2.x:
41999,76 PED Cycled (85473 clicks) - 89% TT-return

Crafting 2.x is bad....

Alukat123 said:

my last 2 crafting runs:
Gec Spur 1k Gears: 187 clicks - 65,2% return
Basic Sheet metal: 313 clicks - 67,57% return
quantity crafting *cough*

Overall return in crafting 2.x:
41999,76 PED Cycled (85473 clicks) - 89% TT-return

Crafting 2.x is bad....

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BSM should be done on condition due to the TT of the finnished product, try that 5k clicks and come back and tell me your TT returns

krogfan said:

BSM should be done on condition due to the TT of the finnished product, try that 5k clicks and come back and tell me your TT returns

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Sure, once MA finally normalizes my TT-return to 95+%, which means a 2,5+k hof, then i can do that.
Btw, read the part where i've posted my overall return

Darth Revan said:

Come on, you understand how crafting works, you understand how averages go, and you seem to know that MA has a dynamic system that is crap. Yes its a pain and frustrating getting only 14 success in 72 clicks

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Thats much better than what I got from my expencive L BPs lately.
And yes I have the 95% success rate too, maxed on it.

Last Quad BP 10 clicks 1 success
befor that a gungnir 22 clicks 3 success

Count it up to amount NVP is crafting (with is more than me), with same bad luck its about 10% success rate on a maxed L BP, it reallysucks.

Its not worth crafting it, better sell the BP make profit and let someone else get the loss on the expencive components needed.

I can´t collect 100+ L BPs to do 1000+ attemps on it to average out the loot, even if I would get that much BPs (what is unlike to happen, as it is rar drops), the materials needed to to 1000 in a row would be way above my budget, so what to do?
In past it was ok to do that 10-20 clicks L BPs, today its simply a waste of PED, and thats just wrong.
Totally agree with NVP here!

Alukat123 said:

Sure, once MA finally normalizes my TT-return to 95+%, which means a 2,5+k hof, then i can do that.
Btw, read the part where i've posted my overall return

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Just saying that if youre doing it right the BSM is a nobrainer for sustainability.

Was merely trying to help more the correct you, good luck

krogfan said:

Just saying that if youre doing it right the BSM is a nobrainer for sustainability.

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LOL, doing it right means what exactly? successful prayers that MA gives the needed multipliers? I've done that over the past few months, all prayers gone unheard....

krogfan said:

BSM should be done on condition due to the TT of the finnished product, try that 5k clicks and come back and tell me your TT returns

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LOL on condition is worst gambling ever.

Where I agree is that Alu is doing to small runs, this low components should be at least 1000 clicks in one run to get average return, better something about 5-10k per craft

But that is not what this thread is about, its about the L BPs, that are rar drops where you normally can´t do 1000+ clicks in one go, as you simply don´t get enough BPs or materials to do it become way to expencive for average players.
Its just useless to do L BPs with 20-30 clicks, as you never will average out your loots.

That needs really improvements, its not about the components from UL BPs where you easy can go 10k clicks in one craft, to average out the loots.

GoNi said:

Where I agree is that Alu is doing to small runs, this low components should be at least 1000 clicks in one run to get average return, better something about 5-10k per craft

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I did big runs, it brought me to the postion where i got only enough peds to do small runs =)
The issue is still that i don't get the necessary multipliers, a times 100 multiplier every 10000 clicks or so and no bigger than that, just leads to bad returns.

crafting 2.x is too dependant on those times 100, 200, 500, 1000 and 3000 multipliers for good return.