ArMatrix Extenders

San

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It all looks good at first sight but I still would like to understand these new items better to assess their value before spending.

Going out from the first item infos appearing on auction and what is already in the Wiki:

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Attachment&id=280
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Blueprint&id=3350

Nowhere in the descriptions does it actually say they're restricted to be used with melee weapons, or with weapons at all. It is just the obvious or anticipated standard use case. Do they attach to other weapons or even tools as well? I can think of a number of items with low service life in between repairs.

Can they be used with limited melee weapons / any L weapons / items? This would address the disadvantage of crafted melee weapons whose markup fully impacts economy. And possibly improve other/older items which got outmoded by increased average efficiency of later releases.

Do they attach to items that don't accept other attachments, like Ancient Greece swords? Do they attach to other attachments (like sights go on scopes -- extenders on low-durability / high-markup amps like BullTac or CDF BLP amps come to mind)?

Might add more questions as I can think of them. I like how the blueprint ingredients are structured here, used to difficulties selling those robot parts.
 
Extenders on E.L.M and CDF weapons

Hello,

These new Extenders are extraordinary when attached to the 1 PED E.L.M and CDF weapons.

If you attach a P20 to a normal full TT gun that you buy for 200 PED, you get 20% extra life out of the gun, so you get 40 PED of gun extension, and the Extender decays by about 45 PED - no big surprise there as MindArk make a small percentage as they do with all items.

However.....if you put a P20 Extender onto a CDF gun, (with a nominal value of 1 PED TT) you get the same amount of gun extension, 40 PED, but the weapon only decays by a total of 1 PED over its lifetime, and the Extender only decays by 0.23 PED !!!!!

You read that correctly. 40 PED of gun, for a cost to you of 0.2 PED.

That means the market value of these Extenders is 40/0.2 = 20000 % and they should be selling for a lot more than they are.

I have raised a support case with MindArk to ask them if this is the intended behaviour of these items, because I suspect they did not intend to give away 40PED to players for a cost of only 0.2 PED, and they are looking into it.

If it is a mistake, then these extenders will probably disappear from the market very quickly, and if it is not a mistake, then they are worth a fortune.

Either way, at the moment, they are well worth buying and attaching to the 1 PED weapons. I bought a P20 (TT 200 PED) a couple of weeks ago when they first came out, attached it to a CDF weapon from the 'Daily Token Trader', used it until the weapon was finished, and the extender still has a TT value of 199.77 PED. Nice.
 
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If you get 23 pec decay on extender then you did get 23 pec extra gun life also and i guess that is exactly how it is intended so i can not understand what you mean with 40 ped extra gun life on a 1 ped tt weapon.

Hello,

These new Extenders are extraordinary when attached to the 1 PED E.L.M and CDF weapons.

If you attach a P20 to a normal full TT gun that you buy for 200 PED, you get 20% extra life out of the gun, so you get 40 PED of gun extension, and the Extender decays by about 45 PED - no big surprise there as MindArk make a small percentage as they do with all items.

However.....if you put a P20 Extender onto a CDF gun, (with a nominal value of 1 PED TT) you get the same amount of gun extension, 40 PED, but the weapon only decays by a total of 1 PED over its lifetime, and the Extender only decays by 0.23 PED !!!!!

You read that correctly. 40 PED of gun, for a cost to you of 0.2 PED.

That means the market value of these Extenders is 40/0.2 = 20000 % and they should be selling for a lot more than they are.

I have raised a support case with MindArk to ask them if this is the intended behaviour of these items, because I suspect they did not intend to give away 40PED to players for a cost of only 0.2 PED, and they are looking into it.

If it is a mistake, then these extenders will probably disappear from the market very quickly, and if it is not a mistake, then they are worth a fortune.

Either way, at the moment, they are well worth buying and attaching to the 1 PED weapons. I bought a P20 (TT 200 PED) a couple of weeks ago when they first came out, attached it to a CDF weapon from the 'Daily Token Trader', used it until the weapon was finished, and the extender still has a TT value of 199.77 PED. Nice.
 
These look just like the adj/imp/aug/mod'perf neopsion implants which do the same for MF chips.

I have a 30% neopsion and it definitely has an advantage with (L) chips that might have markup since they last so much longer (especially XIII chips that cant find as often) which reduces the overall markup paid over the damage done.

These extenders would be even better for higher mu and higher tt (L) items and high tier (L) melee and weapons out there.

SteveB makes the point that 1 ped weapons you pay mostly markup on. Any extension of the weapon is that much markup not paid. Roughly 23% free weapon use in the case above. And since the tt used on those is so insanely low a 100 tt extender would last for a very very long time.

I havn't actually looked that much into whether it affects the decay of an amp attached to the chip as well, But I suspect it would.
 
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I have raised a support case with MindArk to ask them if this is the intended behaviour of these items, because I suspect they did not intend to give away 40PED to players for a cost of only 0.2 PED, and they are looking into it.

Why?? why raise a support case regarding something like this? They are not giving you a free 40 ped to you. The ELM guns dont decay much and with loot 2.0 that means using them is less tt return on the mobs you shoot. Your wasting MA's precious time that they could use to fix lag or the many other problems by raising a support case that is not needed. The extenders do what they are suppose to, extend the life of the gun....leave it at that.
 
Nowhere in the descriptions does it actually say they're restricted to be used with melee weapons, or with weapons at all. It is just the obvious or anticipated standard use case. Do they attach to other weapons or even tools as well? I can think of a number of items with low service life in between repairs.

Can they be used with limited melee weapons / any L weapons / items? This would address the disadvantage of crafted melee weapons whose markup fully impacts economy. And possibly improve other/older items which got outmoded by increased average efficiency of later releases.

Do they attach to items that don't accept other attachments, like Ancient Greece swords? Do they attach to other attachments (like sights go on scopes -- extenders on low-durability / high-markup amps like BullTac or CDF BLP amps come to mind)?

Ignoring for now the discussion that seems to have spun-off, back to facts and questions as raised in OP, based on testing with a P10 and weapons that I had on me / in storage:
  • I can confirm that it does not work on the following individual weapons Archon's Sword, Noob Club (L), or Falx, Lagaunus Cannon, NIP;
  • it does work with the following weapon types: Combat Maces & Clubs, Shortblades, Longblades (both RepAxes & Honor), Power Fists, Whips, BLP & Laser Rifles, Laser Handgun, even the good old Opalo;
  • I have not found any weapon attachment that it fits on (amp/scope/sight);
  • I have not found any tool that it fits on (fap/mining stuff/refiners/scanners/colouring stuff);
  • I have not found any vehicle that it attaches to;
  • it does work with some MF chips, not all, it fits on all the attack (nano)chips I have on me, it doesn't fit on tp or healing chips

As for decay, I tested it with my big mace, the extender absorbed 10% of the decay of the mace (and the mace decayed 10% less obviously), but it appears as if the extender also decays 0.1 pec from itself on every use.

Now for some conclusions from the above:
For me this is not very attractive to use since my Mace has a very high TT by itself already, the extension function for me doesn't have any additional value.
Furthermore, because my mace is unL (making the "MU" on any repair zero unlike when I'd have to buy a new (L) one every run), it only becomes more expensive because of the extra decay at every use.
It becomes worse if you consider I had to pay MU on the extender, by transferring decay from my unL Mace to my L-extender (bought with MU), my eco goes down the drain - I think this even works out badly for me in the Loot2.0 days since the MU that I paid on auction is not considered when I'm hunting, only the 0.1pec additional per hit.

Where I would consider using this is for L-weapons obtained at higher MU than paid for the extender - then effectively you'd be lowering the MU on the combo and extending the useful life of your L-weapon.
 
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As an aside.

I went from 0.59 to 0.56 on CDF LC-60, and extender p20 went from 200.00 to 199.98. (Beware rounding errors)

I'll have more sense once I calculate exact number of usage, but for me it is definitely not 0.1 pecs per use..

Zho

Edit: Sorry a CDF LC-60
 
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Use it on any weapon where the MU is higher than the extender or daily token weapons as you will get 20% more value from them for a few pecs decay
 
So it can be attached to a weapon alongside with the 'normal' amp?
 
Can these be attached to a melee weapon in addition to a Mayhem M-Matrix attachment?
 
I'll have more sense once I calculate exact number of usage, but for me it is definitely not 0.1 pecs per use..

Apogies for the confusion, what I was trying to say is that the P10 decayed for an amount worth 10%-of-attached-weapon-decay plus an additional 0.1pec, in my case the "transferred decay" from my Mace is over 25 times larger than the 0.1pec.

The decay of the CDF LC-60 must be around 1.5~2.5pec per use, and it would make the Extender decay by 20% of that, plus an additional 0.1 pec fixed decay is my guess.
I can only guess that the P15 and the P20 must also have a decay made up of a variable part (15% and 20% of the decay of whatever weapon they are attachached to), and a small fixed (to be confirmed) amount on top of that.

I have only done realy decay tests with it attached to the big Mace, other than that I only tested if if could be fitted on something.
Btw: I did do proper decay testing using in my case sweat bottles.

To answer one of the other questions: yes it can be attached to a weapon in combination with an amp; no I don't know what will happen with decay in that scenario (specifically whether it only decay 10 (or 15 or 20%) of the weapon, or also part of the amp-decay.
Similarly, I don't know what will happen with decay when attached to a weapon with enhancers attached to it - I did not test that.
 
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Thanks a lot for the information so far. It's too early to say where prices and availability will stabilize, but with all bp's being L/L I'm not yet convinced that this will ensure worry-free playing if I were to rely on it e.g. to augment melee hunting. We'll see.
 
Apogies for the confusion, what I was trying to say is that the P10 decayed for an amount worth 10%-of-attached-weapon-decay plus an additional 0.1pec, in my case the "transferred decay" from my Mace is over 25 times larger than the 0.1pec.

The decay of the CDF LC-60 must be around 1.5~2.5pec per use, and it would make the Extender decay by 20% of that, plus an additional 0.1 pec fixed decay is my guess.
I can only guess that the P15 and the P20 must also have a decay made up of a variable part (15% and 20% of the decay of whatever weapon they are attachached to), and a small fixed (to be confirmed) amount on top of that.

If you tested this with a single hit, then I suspect that the additional decay you're noticing might be coming from a 0.001 decay incurred when initially attaching the item.
 
If you tested this with a single hit, then I suspect that the additional decay you're noticing might be coming from a 0.001 decay incurred when initially attaching the item.

Good point, I never even thought of that!
In fact I did test it three times but every time with single hit - to establish TT value via fruit test I need to detach attachments in order to put something in TT.

My extender is on auction now - I felt I could put 100ped to better use - so I cannot retest to confirm/debunk.
It will not make a big difference for me though: since I (for other reasons) prefer unL over L weapons the extenders do not have an added value to me yet.

If however the next generation of extenders would use UA/crapnel instead of decay...then I'd be interested cuz all the crapnel would finally become interesting and Melee users would finally be able to benefit from that as well.
 
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i have used P15 extender with CDF 240 Recon

for 40 pec decay of CDF 240 attached P15 decayed only for 6-7pec
 
i have used P15 extender with CDF 240 Recon

for 40 pec decay of CDF 240 attached P15 decayed only for 6-7pec

that seems odd: unless I misunderstood the P15 is supposed to transfer 15% of the un-extended (normal) decay to the extender, meaning that the decay of the extender should be 0.15 : 0.85 vs. the weapon decay

if I were you I'd retest exactly how much the decay is (e.g. 6.4567 ped instead of 6~7ped), if relative decay ratio is still the same you could consider submitting a support case to ask if all is correct

unless you have other attachments attached to the same weapon, afaik that has not yet been investigated / tested / reported - that could a possible explanation
 
that seems odd: unless I misunderstood the P15 is supposed to transfer 15% of the un-extended (normal) decay to the extender, meaning that the decay of the extender should be 0.15 : 0.85 vs. the weapon decay

if I were you I'd retest exactly how much the decay is (e.g. 6.4567 ped instead of 6~7ped), if relative decay ratio is still the same you could consider submitting a support case to ask if all is correct

unless you have other attachments attached to the same weapon, afaik that has not yet been investigated / tested / reported - that could a possible explanation

I think the numbers seem correct.

7 pecs divided 47 pecs is roughly 15%.
 
Good point, I never even thought of that!
In fact I did test it three times but every time with single hit - to establish TT value via fruit test I need to detach attachments in order to put something in TT.

My extender is on auction now - I felt I could put 100ped to better use - so I cannot retest to confirm/debunk.
It will not make a big difference for me though: since I (for other reasons) prefer L over unL weapons the extenders do not have an added value to me yet.

If however the next generation of extenders would use UA/crapnel instead of decay...then I'd be interested cuz all the crapnel would finally become interesting and Melee users would finally be able to benefit from that as well.

if you prefer limited over UL weapons isnt that the exact use case for using the extenders? when they detoriate instead of your limited weapon and has a lower MU than your main weapon you should use them. i dont see how they would have any use on unlimited weapons apart from adding MU to a non MU weapon (apart from buying / resell value) that just makes you lose more money for no gain at all imo
 
if you attach extender to unlimited melee weapon you will increase efficiency like more one amplifier
Aakas+MAmp IV efficiency ~62.3%
AAkas+MAmp IV + P15 efficiency ~65.4%
but you will pay more mu for hunting
 
if you prefer limited over UL weapons isnt that the exact use case for using the extenders? when they detoriate instead of your limited weapon and has a lower MU than your main weapon you should use them. i dont see how they would have any use on unlimited weapons apart from adding MU to a non MU weapon (apart from buying / resell value) that just makes you lose more money for no gain at all imo

Lol, you are of course absolutely right, I have written it exactly opposite of how I wanted to do :)

What I meant was: because I almost exclusively use unLimited weapons the added value of these exteders for me is null, if however one does use a lot of Limited weapons it becomes a different matter - then it all depends on the MU of the weapon used compared with the MU of the extender.

I'll correct my earlier post, thanks for alerting me - you must have thought I'm a bit :scratch2: or perhaps :smoke: ;)
 
Testing with LC-60 CDF

Extender decay is approximately .00002 peds per use

Expected LC-60 CDF decay per use is .00004 peds per use.

So expected decay on LC-60 cdf is .000032, which falls in line with my numbers approximately.

So the Extender absorbs about .000008 peds from the LC-60 cdf, but has its own decay of .000012 per use.
 
if you attach extender to unlimited melee weapon you will increase efficiency like more one amplifier
Aakas+MAmp IV efficiency ~62.3%
AAkas+MAmp IV + P15 efficiency ~65.4%
but you will pay more mu for hunting

Rubio + A106 + Armatrix Extender here I come 90% efficiency :eyecrazy: :yay: :laugh:
 
It's my understanding that they absorb a % of decay and have decay of their own.... even with UP weapons that would work right? I mean let's say a UL weapon had a 1.00 decay per use and you put a 20 on it... wouldnt the math be like (1.00 * .80) +.008?
 
It's my understanding that they absorb a % of decay and have decay of their own.... even with UP weapons that would work right? I mean let's say a UL weapon had a 1.00 decay per use and you put a 20 on it... wouldnt the math be like (1.00 * .80) +.008?

yes it would most likely work... but why in gods name would someone wanne do that?
 
yes it would most likely work... but why in gods name would someone wanne do that?

I was only thinking about the decay... not the amount absorbed... hahaha so yea with ul guns it would just be an added cost haha
 
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