MAs intentions with loot 2.1

I thought it was MAs wish to make hunting more stable and create less volatility. well, right now they accomplished the exact opposite.

After the loot 2.0 change things were ok. The volatility was okay and it was possible to still profit on a few hunts and get around 95%- 100% tt return sample sizes of around 1k or 2k kills with a certain stability.

Now after they changed to loot 2.1 (changes or min and max non multi loot, added 1.5x - 3x multis and overall a lot less loots over 10-20x multis with more frequent 3000x multis and up) the volatility is so crazy that its basically impossible to hunt anything at all. Ive done the kerb stage 5 and bronze since then and got 80% tt return on that. i was doing dom and alpha only and biggest hti i had was around 200 peds. ive tested it with several different guns ranging from close to 70% efficiency to 30% efficiency. (armatrix with halloween amps and piron UL weapons unamped) and the result is exactly the same on any weapon ive used. its nearly scary how close im to 80% tt return on anything. ive also hunted tons of others mobs across all planets and its the same everywhere. max 80% tt return on 9 out of 10 runs and then if im lucky i get a 100-110% tt return run. i dont hit any 300x multis that are still quite frequent, but with 80% tt return id need one of those on every fifth 500 kills run to get close to MAs wishful 98% tt return.

now before loot 2.1 with 95-100% tt return runs it was entirely possible to cover enough MU on some mobs to close the gap to profit via MU. but now with 80% tt return as new standard its entirely impossible to find enough MU to cover that. and even if i hit the 7k kerb or whatever 3000x multi to get to the 98% tt return that MA wants i still have zero chance to profit as those hofs are usually shrapnel only. so its impossible to profit on tt now in the longterm (which is okay) but its also impossible to profit via MU now in the longterm. so my question is: why even hunt at all? just for skills so i can lose peds faster later on?
hunting returns are now 100% gambling luck as profit via MU got impossible.

Maybe MA can tell us their intentions with loot 2.1 change because that change reverted nearly everything they wanted to change with loot 2.0. i mean i get it that they want noobs to feel they got lucky with a big hit to hook em into the game but that goes on the expense of everyone else. is it really needed to have daily 3kx multis on small mobs? they could have let the typical short term long term 95-100% tt return from loot 2.0 and just change the chances to get 300x - 10k multis a bit so the lower ones are less frequent which enables the bigger ones to be a little more frequent. that way people can still profit via MU and dont feel !!!!! after every run while the noobs or anyone else still can get lucky and get a big hit while not so many getting the medium hits anymore.

I totally second this.

My impression is that MA wants you to keep hunting to get one of those crazy hofs.
I guess they think that showering hofs is the incentive to keep hunting.

But in the end this means that for the majority of the playerbase they will have to accept 80% returns to pay for those hofs.

For me loot 2.0 was the reason to up my hunting pace again since the smaller volatility decreased my frustration in playing this game.

But I can say now for sure, that I'm totally frustrated as well and ceased any serious hunting for the simply reason that I cant afford it anymore due to the immense losses it incurs.

The entropia lottery is back.
It's not playing anymore, it's just back to 100% gambling. Huge losses with a small chance to win big.

Bleh.

i mean now the people will come and say that its okay to pay for entertainment and that i should see the loses as the price for entertainment. well ill tell you what... at this standard returns and the level i have entertainment in hunting i could just as well go to a hooker. it costs me the same per hour but offers more fun.

Me Really Never said:

i mean now the people will come and say that its okay to pay for entertainment and that i should see the loses as the price for entertainment. well ill tell you what... at this standard returns and the level i have entertainment in hunting i could just as well go to a hooker. it costs me the same per hour but offers more fun.

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Also dont forget the fact that EU boasts about being a real cash economy in which there is no economy with hunting ( shrapnel in , shrapnel out ) , how does that justify an economy , the 101% just doesn’t

I fail to see the entertainment value in this ?

They originally did loot 2.0 to make the community happy, then realized after a while that the cut they were making on it was going down, so they adjusted it a bit to 'fix that' especially since certain folks that weren't happy with 2.0 that were previously paying in big time started sending in support tickets... so it's a back and forth game... Entropia is dynamic, and we are approaching the end of the year when Mindark usually does some silly end of year 'we need money' type of sales thing to try to get the books cooked for tax purposes, etc.

mastermesh said:

We are greedy and need money End of the Year Sales Schemes (or scams if you prefer...)
Avatar Statue Auctions
Avatar Statue Results

Ethereal Armor: Barely There, Protection Everywhere!
The Quadwing Equus - Special edition Quadwing Interceptors
liquidation auction
Medusa Head...

We are Greedy and need money - Beginning of Year Type Sales (especially when the end of year sale flopped):
Firebird Limited Edition Sales

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Perhaps they are storing up big potential for Merry Mayhem time when some of the coffers will open up a bit when more start depositing more...

Doubt it, but you never know...

That having been said, it seems like if you overprotect on armor, and get buffy with lots of pills, etc. your returns do go up a little... Maybe Mindark is just trying to encourage more folks to eat more pills to drive avatars to becoming addicts so next year's end of year sale will be deeds for an addiction recovery center?

I wouldn't say it's gambling now but you need to kill way more mobs to be sure of 96-98% returns. Let's say you needed 1-2k in 2.0 and you probably need 100k kills in 2.1 . Pretty sure it will bite MA in the ass eventually. That change forced me to move to smaller mobs I can actually afford to kill 100k before running out of PED. And guess what, I can't cycle as fast on small mobs I hunt right now as I could on bigger mobs back in original loot 2.0. As end result I decay less per hour now than i was in 2.1 and guess whose loss it is

When they introduced 2.1 changes they mentioned they increase volatility to make hunting more interesting. But right now I would say it's frustrating, not interesting. Requiring me to make 100k kills to see returns to stabilize is just insane - it's like 1 year of playing at my usual pace

Daimon Frey said:

I wouldn't say it's gambling now but you need to kill way more mobs to be sure of 96-98% returns. Let's say you needed 1-2k in 2.0 and you probably need 100k kills in 2.1 . Pretty sure it will bite MA in the ass eventually. That change forced me to move to smaller mobs I can actually afford to kill 100k before running out of PED. And guess what, I can't cycle as fast on small mobs I hunt right now as I could on bigger mobs back in original loot 2.0. As end result I decay less per hour now than i was in 2.1 and guess whose loss it is

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yes, and this also decreases the need to skill up.
Why in earth would I need more skills for? So I can hunt bigger? Just to loose ped even faster??

welcome back A101 amped Ozpyn chon!

wizz said:

yes, and this also decreases the need to skill up.
Why in earth would I need more skills for? So I can hunt bigger? Just to loose ped even faster??

welcome back A101 amped Ozpyn chon!

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To be honest I don't see much difference in hunting with chon versus bigger guns. It all comes down to pulling mob's HP to zero

What i liked about loot 2.0 is that I could cycle my whole PED card over the weekend without risk of bankruptcy

I believed the loot 2.0 was an incentive to reduce the average cost to play for us but with 2.1 it feels like pre 2.0 with the exeption that crit chance and crit dmg stacking dosn't give you the edge anymore.

But its true people were whining because no hofs happend, now some whining the average return is down until you hit one of those big multipliers.

Daimon Frey said:

To be honest I don't see much difference in hunting with chon versus bigger guns. It all comes down to pulling mob's HP to zero

What i liked about loot 2.0 is that I could cycle my whole PED card over the weekend without risk of bankruptcy

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Lol, there hardly is any difference.
And if you hunt mobs like Yog you'll still see some occasional swirlies just like the " big boys" .

And with all those 100~300 hp mobs giving 4k+ loots there's again no more reasons to hunt 10 ped mobs.

I feel blessed with my lack of skills!

Professional hunters will feel in few days if the return is not right or fair, not much profit but fair. Fairness is very important in any bussines. And they will stop hunting. Is very simple.

sententz said:

Professional hunters will feel in few days if the return is not right or fair, not much profit but fair. Fairness is very important in any bussines. And they will stop hunting. Is very simple.

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you forget one major aspect. " Addiction".
Lets be honest, entropia is filled with gambling addicts.
The playerbase has been hunting carrots for the past decades already.

The probability to loot big is enough for some to keep on spending.

agree, but you cant profit too much time only with few addicts. You need fairness in the bussines and a player base profiting to be able to have a big number of addicts, growing and growing, looking for profit seeing the profit examples. Marketing is formed by examples at the end. If you cut the profit examples made by hardwork(very few players under 5% or even less), you cut the number of addicts(more players proportionaly with profit players),so you cut yourself as a proft bussines firm, this is my personal opinion ofc.

sententz said:

agree, but you cant profit too much time only with few addicts. You need fairness in the bussines and a player base profiting to be able to have a big number of addicts, growing and growing, looking for profit seeing the profit examples. Marketing is formed by examples at the end. If you cut the profit examples made by hardwork(very few players under 5% or even less), you cut the number of addicts(more players proportionaly with profit players),so you cut yourself as a profit bussines firm, this is my personal opinion ofc.

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Yes, you might be right, but dont underestimate the power of addiction. I think that is the driving force behind EU.
Common, let's be honest, doing 10k mobs (regardless which mob) is ultimately boring and can hardly considered "playing for fun" . The only fun part is the chance for swirlies.
There's no story in shooting 10k mobs and there's no challenge in shooting 10k mobs (apart from the financial challenge to keep on going).
Who in his sane mind would spend his precious years on this planet grind thousands upon thousand the same mobs for fun?
Nah, it's the chance to win that drives most players (grinders).

Casino's live on the fact that gamblers gladly spend money for a small chance to win. In the end, the house always wins. Everybody knows that but still casinos are filled with addicts.

Me Really Never said:

i mean now the people will come and say that its okay to pay for entertainment and that i should see the loses as the price for entertainment. well ill tell you what... at this standard returns and the level i have entertainment in hunting i could just as well go to a hooker. it costs me the same per hour but offers more fun.

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Getting your misses to dress like a hooker is even cheaper. There's some amazing outfits out there...lol.

I find it interesting you've change of tune the last few months. It wasn't long ago, you slammed down hard on anyone that sugested any negativity.

Maybe you changed your play style after that big mining hof. Or maybe experienced what happens when you raise your game up a few levels. Interesting though isn't it that after a big hof your personal loot is effected, even though there is no loot pool. That always makes me laugh that, as people will defend the "we all have the same chance" position until they experience the reality under the hood.

Not having a go, just saying that now you've turned to the darkside, it's a lot harder to bash the experienced.

Funny really. Have a good day.

Rick

ps: Not shooted for over 2 months, so I have no idea what's happening on the ground right now.

RickEngland said:

Getting your misses to dress like a hooker is even cheaper. There's some amazing outfits out there...lol.

I find it interesting you've change of tune the last few months. It wasn't long ago, you slammed down hard on anyone that sugested any negativity.

Maybe you changed your play style after that big mining hof. Or maybe experienced what happens when you raise your game up a few levels. Interesting though isn't it that after a big hof your personal loot is effected, even though there is no loot pool. That always makes me laugh that, as people will defend the "we all have the same chance" position until they experience the reality under the hood.

Not having a go, just saying that now you've turned to the darkside, it's a lot harder to bash the experienced.

Funny really. Have a good day.

Rick

ps: Not shooted for over 2 months, so I have no idea what's happening on the ground right now.

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Don't forget this is the biggest troll in the forum/game who just throw random numbers out and have no clue what he is talking about.
All the numbers (and tracker) points against what he is implying.

Ekholm said:

Don't forget this is the biggest troll in the forum/game who just throw random numbers out and have no clue what he is talking about.
All the numbers (and tracker) points against what he is implying.

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but tracker is recording globals only after 2008 man.I'm sure before tracker everyone was hunting at least 100 times more with no tiers on guns

Mining has been this way since 2015...

~81% TT on average without the huge multipliers that put you between 92-99%...

crafting is similar as far as I'm told.

This would be fine in hunting if you could guarantee 106-108% average markup as a base value... at least then you could cover some losses until the big hit. Until that time, hunting requires a larger bankroll than any other profession in entropia right now... don't have 50k pedcard? better not hunt anything over 2000hp... at least that's what loot 2.1 is doing.


I have limited 2.1 hunting experience... (59k cycled during hwm @ 97.17% TT).. but this system is not sustainable unless hunting markups get nearer to those you'd get mining foma or most spots on caly. Grinding for weeks at 81% TT hoping for the fat hof to set you right is a bad practice.

Ekholm said:

Don't forget this is the biggest troll in the forum/game who just throw random numbers out and have no clue what he is talking about.
All the numbers (and tracker) points against what he is implying.

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and you are the troll who always insults me on any of my threads without adding anything to any topic. well done. and just that you know, i spend around 70% of my time on toulan and cyrene and close to none of those globals are tracked. and how exactly does a tracker imply how my returns are? the tracker just shows global / hof value added. it doesnt say how much i cycled or how many mobs ive killed. its even inaccurate as fuck on his main ability (showing total global / hof volume) for people who dont sit on caly or ark all day. but you sure know whats up dude. maybe stop the trolling, turn your brain on and try to produce anything of value for the community.

RickEngland said:

I find it interesting you've change of tune the last few months. It wasn't long ago, you slammed down hard on anyone that sugested any negativity.
.

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This!

No sympathy at all for op although many valid points raised.

Have a taste of your own medicine son

RickEngland said:

I find it interesting you've change of tune the last few months. It wasn't long ago, you slammed down hard on anyone that sugested any negativity.
Maybe you changed your play style after that big mining hof. Or maybe experienced what happens when you raise your game up a few levels.
Not having a go, just saying that now you've turned to the darkside, it's a lot harder to bash the experienced.

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indeed. when his returns are not good, it is the system.
when somebody else's is not, they're wrong, the system is dynamic so they should adapt
it is exactly same kind of thread you just created that you were doing a forum warrior in not so long ago

and why you guys talk about 'Loot 2.1' ? it is official release or something else , becouse i dont find it? or is just an estimation or guess?

sententz said:

and why you guys talk about 'Loot 2.1' ? it is official release or something else , becouse i dont find it? or is just an estimation or guess?

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it was the "adjustment" that came 6 weeks after loot 2.0

not sure on the timeline.

Me Really Never said:

and you are the troll who always insults me on any of my threads without adding anything to any topic. well done. and just that you know, i spend around 70% of my time on toulan and cyrene and close to none of those globals are tracked. and how exactly does a tracker imply how my returns are? the tracker just shows global / hof value added. it doesnt say how much i cycled or how many mobs ive killed. its even inaccurate as fuck on his main ability (showing total global / hof volume) for people who dont sit on caly or ark all day. but you sure know whats up dude. maybe stop the trolling, turn your brain on and try to produce anything of value for the community.

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ok dude, whatever you say.

Me Really Never said:

at this standard returns and the level i have entertainment in hunting i could just as well go to a hooker. it costs me the same per hour but offers more fun.

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Sounds like you get hookers for $10-$20/h range then. They can't be very beautiful or be much fun

Me Really Never said:

i did a few 1k ped runs on kerbs (always dom and alpha) with piron ul gun with some 28% efficiency, then with ul non sib guns with 65% eff and with armatrix series with impa105...

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Source: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?300455-Not-another-hunting-log

Few 1k ped hunts you say... Both stage V and Bronze mission is about 9k PED together at 3dpp, so assume you did 30-50% of both missions together with really sad gear, and then come up with this thread you don't have any good returns or any MU loot?

Ekholm said:

ok dude, whatever you say.


Sounds like you get hookers for $10-$20/h range then. They can't be very beautiful or be much fun


Source: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?300455-Not-another-hunting-log

Few 1k ped hunts you say... Both stage V and Bronze mission is about 9k PED together at 3dpp, so assume you did 30-50% of both missions together with really sad gear, and then come up with this thread you don't have any good returns or any MU loot?

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if your hatred wouldnt make you blind and you would be able to read then you could see that ive just given this as an example. ive cycled more than 150k peds since loot 2.1 on lots of different mobs across near all planets and the average of 80% without any big hits (300x multi and up) is always the same. ive talked with several people about this and all seem to be in the same area of 75-85% tt returni havent seen a single person with a decent sample size that could show me more than 90% tt return longterm without getting those huge mutlis (1kx and up)
feel free to prove me wrong.

Currently im doing the 10.000 Eviscerator Iron Challange.

my observations on Loot 2.0 ---> Loot 2.1 are as follows:

Loot 2.0 with more than 8.000 evis killed:
During Loot 2.0 i could adjust my clock to frequent globals on Evis 02-04 to be 1 per 75 kills in average.
Very stable over the course of maybe 8.000 kills. dozens over dozens of globals. total outcome over 100% ROI !

Loot 2.1 with more than 1.000 evis killed so far:
With Loot 2.1 this changed abruptly. Since Loot 2.1 over another 1.000 kills passed without having one single global, while my ROI drastically dropped to maybe 50% .

No change in gear or hunting style.
i hope i am only collecting for my ATH here...

Orion said:

Currently im doing the 10.000 Eviscerator Iron Challange.

my observations on Loot 2.0 ---> Loot 2.1 are as follows:

Loot 2.0 with more than 8.000 evis killed:
During Loot 2.0 i could adjust my clock to frequent globals on Evis 02-04 to be 1 per 75 kills in average.
Very stable over the course of maybe 8.000 kills. dozens over dozens of globals. total outcome over 100% ROI !

Loot 2.1 with more than 1.000 evis killed so far:
With Loot 2.1 this changed abruptly. Since Loot 2.1 over another 1.000 kills passed without having one single global, while my ROI drastically dropped to maybe 50% .

No change in gear or hunting style.
i hope i am only collecting for my ATH here...

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To be fair, both situations are completely unsustainable.

I did not experience such good loot during loot 2.0. My return improved for "loot 2.1" actually...(quotation marks because i'm not sure what the definition of loot 2.1 really is, except that my return is significantly better more recently than when 2.0 first came out)


My guess is lots of the "good" experience people had with 2.0 is simply those players that experienced an upswing in loot during that time frame, and the negative is those players experiencing a uncorrelated downswing at a later point in time...

Whatever the intentions are, at the moment it's not working out except for those who get lucky. For me the rake has been much too high lately with too many 60% runs. The ~97% they were talking about seem only achievable with a massive global/hof shower within the sample period. But so far every deposit since 2.1 was eaten up in no time (before that it was okay for a brief duration). And no, it still doesn't make me pull out the card and pour in more money, the opposite instead. I'm done for the month again, maybe I'll give it another try next payday (20th) if I don't find something else to do.