Excessive time to kill???

girtsn

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Girts Smilgs Niedra
Dear MA, again please address the lags - it is an extremely unfair practice to run dps events while some suffer excessive lags that were clearly introduced by changes @ server/network side.
It is nice to communicate on it and issue prizes for lag surveys, but you must know what change introduced the lag. Clearly that change is not working, maybe its time to revert / refactor?

And, could you please clarify the following related subjects wrt. to lag and quote from loot 2.0 notes below?

Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot.
For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health,
excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors.
1. could introduction / refactoring of these efficiency measurements mentioned above be a factor of the excessive lag?
2. is the introduced lag causing extra regen in turn leading to "non-optimal loot"? if so then indeed we have been paying for the lags not only with frustrations but returns as well.
3. could it be that the creatures you are spawning for events like 11000 hp mulmun degenerate's, 33000 mulmun ascended's and 10000+ alpha+ eomons previously are set to never give "optimal loot" for solo hunters as the existing weapons simply cannot match the optimal criteria? supported by the extremely poor returns and almost 0 big hofs both on eomon stalkers and mulmuns by solo hunters, as well as recent absence of most players having relatively close relations to the office?
 
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Check the Loot 2.0 follow up, they clarify there is no such thing as a kill timer or anything just that it is generally advised to kill targets faster (most likely to avoid regen, which is not optimal and is most likely primarily returned as shrapnel)

To best achieve Optimal Loot:
  • Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
  • Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
  • Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.
In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.

nothing really too complicated
 
Dear MA, again please address the lags - it is an extremely unfair practice to run dps events while some suffer excessive lags that were clearly introduced by changes @ server/network side.
It is nice to communicate on it and issue prizes for lag surveys, but you must know what change introduced the lag. Clearly that change is not working, maybe its time to revert / refactor?

:wise::wise::wise:
 
Thanks for the pointer though if lag causes more regen and not (fully) compensated could cause quite a hole in returns. And leaves questions 1 and 3 open in any case. Updated first post thanks again...
Check the Loot 2.0 follow up, they clarify there is no such thing as a kill timer or anything just that it is generally advised to kill targets faster (most likely to avoid regen, which is not optimal and is most likely primarily returned as shrapnel)
 
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Thanks for the pointer though if lag causes more regen and not (fully) compensated could cause quite a hole in returns. And leaves questions 1 and 3 open in any case. Updated first post thanks again...

It isn't that it's not returned or not taken into account, it's just returned sub-optimally
 
also loot 2.0 change didnt bring lag. it was loot 2.1 change and id be happy if theyd revert it because its opposed to what they initially wanted to achieve with 2.0 ...
 
The changes they made to loot 2.0 in september (I guess that's what people call loot 2.1?¿?¿?) brought not only huge lags, but it also broke the returns for a lot of people including myself.

I'm not a big enough hunter to comment on the time to kill etc, but they MUST fix the lag RIGHT NOW. They should put 100% of their resources towards fixing it, delay everything else and fix the lag already.

5 days to MM.... unbelievable display of uselessness.
 
The changes they made to loot 2.0 in september (I guess that's what people call loot 2.1?¿?¿?) brought not only huge lags, but it also broke the returns for a lot of people including myself.

I'm not a big enough hunter to comment on the time to kill etc, but they MUST fix the lag RIGHT NOW. They should put 100% of their resources towards fixing it, delay everything else and fix the lag already.

5 days to MM.... unbelievable display of uselessness.

yeah i called that loot 2.1. after lots of people said this would be normal varience and no change i asked for MA to give us details on the change and a few hours later they did. thats where the huge small mob hofs (big multis) came back a lot too frequently and the standard loot gone down to 80%. i mean big loots are nice and all but they dont need to be 3 times a day or more while everyone suffers huge. it wouldve been better cutting out some of the 300x multis and maybe a few 100x ones to accumulate for the big pots. that way we would have one big multi on small mobs once or twice a week and still the standard 95%+ normal return
 
The changes they made to loot 2.0 in september (I guess that's what people call loot 2.1?¿?¿?) brought not only huge lags, but it also broke the returns for a lot of people including myself.

I'm not a big enough hunter to comment on the time to kill etc, but they MUST fix the lag RIGHT NOW. They should put 100% of their resources towards fixing it, delay everything else and fix the lag already.

5 days to MM.... unbelievable display of uselessness.

yeah i called that loot 2.1. after lots of people said this would be normal varience and no change i asked for MA to give us details on the change and a few hours later they did. thats where the huge small mob hofs (big multis) came back a lot too frequently and the standard loot gone down to 80%. i mean big loots are nice and all but they dont need to be 3 times a day or more while everyone suffers huge. it wouldve been better cutting out some of the 300x multis and maybe a few 100x ones to accumulate for the big pots. that way we would have one big multi on small mobs once or twice a week and still the standard 95%+ normal return

Absolute B*** S*** is what it is at currently. losing 2k peds per day with approx 80% + or - tt returns is fucking ridiculous when u keep seeing 3-4k kerb old's. I don't give a fucking damn to the idiots on forum who don't mind hunting punies and consider it as entertainment at lvl 80,90,100+. This is not what skilling is meant to do so you get shafted by the fact that MA has put way more multi's on lower tt mobs.

So they can kiss my a** and i'll go back to leeching instead of contributing to the economy by playing the game.


F*ck this S*it.

Divinity out.
 
Absolute B*** S*** is what it is at currently. losing 2k peds per day with approx 80% + or - tt returns is fucking ridiculous when u keep seeing 3-4k kerb old's. I don't give a fucking damn to the idiots on forum who don't mind hunting punies and consider it as entertainment at lvl 80,90,100+. This is not what skilling is meant to do so you get shafted by the fact that MA has put way more multi's on lower tt mobs.

So they can kiss my a** and i'll go back to leeching instead of contributing to the economy by playing the game.


F*ck this S*it.

Divinity out.

this is a prime example of ubers (visa warriors) that have absolutely no clue about anything.
do you think EVERYONE who hunts kerbs gets a 5k or 10k hof on them? do you know how many hunters there are hunting them? i just recently got my first ever hof on kerbs (after completing the bronze and cycling another 20k peds on them since) which was 400 or 500 peds or something and that after losing over 6k peds on them with 80% tt returns over weeks. needless to say that even after that hof the return went straight to 50-80% again. if i want to grind long enough to get a 5k+ kerb hof id most likely lose at least 20k peds before that happens, if it happens at all.
the return tt% wise the the fucking same on any fucking mob. there are just a thousand times more kerbs hunted daily than osseos or whatever stupid huge ass gamble mobs you go for. and thats the reason we see more big noob mobs. higher amount of kills = higher amount of big loots. but the vaaast majority of players going for kerbs get the same fuckign tt% return that you get on any fucking mob.
 
this is a prime example of ubers (visa warriors) that have absolutely no clue about anything.
do you think EVERYONE who hunts kerbs gets a 5k or 10k hof on them? do you know how many hunters there are hunting them? i just recently got my first ever hof on kerbs (after completing the bronze and cycling another 20k peds on them since) which was 400 or 500 peds or something and that after losing over 6k peds on them with 80% tt returns over weeks. needless to say that even after that hof the return went straight to 50-80% again. if i want to grind long enough to get a 5k+ kerb hof id most likely lose at least 20k peds before that happens, if it happens at all.
the return tt% wise the the fucking same on any fucking mob. there are just a thousand times more kerbs hunted daily than osseos or whatever stupid huge ass gamble mobs you go for. and thats the reason we see more big noob mobs. higher amount of kills = higher amount of big loots. but the vaaast majority of players going for kerbs get the same fuckign tt% return that you get on any fucking mob.

I don't have time to waste replying on forums so i'll keep it short and sweet. Same number of mobs done on 2-4 ped mobs gave ME 4+ 250x multi's and the same number on higher ones gives me none. Before commenting without knowing, try it out and see the reality and not just quote some BS that has been fed to you based on past experience.

This is not about the 5k hof's but the fact that small mobs give multi way more often and this is from personal experience and not someone else's. I have hunted on all sizes enough to know the difference.
 
as far as I am concerned, "sub optimal" can mean anything - imho among other things means less multipliers when reaching certain threshold of lack of dps for a mob hp
so far it looks same on mulmuns as on eomon stalkers before or other higher maturities
~0 1.5k+ hofs on mulmun ascended's, couple on degenerates
and you definitely need them to get close to 95% tt return
it used to be possible and not anymore
It isn't that it's not returned or not taken into account, it's just returned sub-optimally
 
Another nice quote of loot 2.0 notes after a weekend of -6100 peds with 83.22% tt return from mulmun degenerates and Isis 1950 (one of the most dps weapons around). This so reminds me of returns in eomon stalkers this year.
Nope, I definitely did not notice these changes quite the opposite.
As many participants have already noticed, changes have recently been made to hunting loot distribution, specifically regarding loot volatility and loot sizes. The overall net hunting return was not affected by these changes, but rather the frequency and size of various loot outcomes as a means of promoting more interesting and exciting loot outcomes and removing some of the more frustrating outcomes that were previously possible (especially on larger creatures).
 
I don't have time to waste replying on forums so i'll keep it short and sweet. Same number of mobs done on 2-4 ped mobs gave ME 4+ 250x multi's and the same number on higher ones gives me none. Before commenting without knowing, try it out and see the reality and not just quote some BS that has been fed to you based on past experience.

This is not about the 5k hof's but the fact that small mobs give multi way more often and this is from personal experience and not someone else's. I have hunted on all sizes enough to know the difference.

would be easier to reply if youd give some numbers on how many the same number of mobs is. as i said i had one 250x-300x multi on roughly 20k kills on kerbs.
additionally something i noticed is that the smaller the mob the wider the spread of the multiplier. example: 1-2 ped mobs gives multis up to 20x quite frequently but between 25x and 100x i get basically none of these on several 10k kills while the 3-5 ped mobs tend to give more 25-50x multis on a smaller sample size. when i do 500 kills runs on small to medium atrox i mostly end up at around 75% minimum tt return while on kerbs with the same sample size i tend to get frequent 55% tt return runs. might be coincidence but might also be a mechanism to soften up the returns the higher you get.
note: this doesnt mean that the returns on bigger mobs are better. but they do seem more stable for me (while still being far too low ofc)
 
would be easier to reply if youd give some numbers on how many the same number of mobs is. as i said i had one 250x-300x multi on roughly 20k kills on kerbs.
additionally something i noticed is that the smaller the mob the wider the spread of the multiplier. example: 1-2 ped mobs gives multis up to 20x quite frequently but between 25x and 100x i get basically none of these on several 10k kills while the 3-5 ped mobs tend to give more 25-50x multis on a smaller sample size. when i do 500 kills runs on small to medium atrox i mostly end up at around 75% minimum tt return while on kerbs with the same sample size i tend to get frequent 55% tt return runs. might be coincidence but might also be a mechanism to soften up the returns the higher you get.
note: this doesnt mean that the returns on bigger mobs are better. but they do seem more stable for me (while still being far too low ofc)

i'll give u the data.


2k bristlehogs prowler/stalker : 1.5-3 ped/kill depending on miss's crits. 4 multi's of 250x each ( For my ava and i do believe there is a personal multiplier cycle along with mob and mine is capped at 250x) and i never had so many back to back 250x so fast.

3200 : aurli dome 1 : I don't remember the highest multi but it was < 30x and returns were 81.6%. ( this was done in 30 hrs. ( 20 hrs or so of hunting)

2k done on CP cave : highest was 30x multi. Returns around 78.some% ( I don't have exact decimal % in my mind as the numbers are on a different laptop)

Not just mine bristles have literally given 250x to way more people and it sucks for someone who losses at 10-20 ped/mob and gets his multi's only on 2-4ped mob.

Crafting similar story. Last 2500 clicks on a 6 ped/click bp gave me 4.86 ped/click back. Quantity ofcourse and qr 80+.
 
i'll give u the data.


2k bristlehogs prowler/stalker : 1.5-3 ped/kill depending on miss's crits. 4 multi's of 250x each ( For my ava and i do believe there is a personal multiplier cycle along with mob and mine is capped at 250x) and i never had so many back to back 250x so fast.

3200 : aurli dome 1 : I don't remember the highest multi but it was < 30x and returns were 81.6%. ( this was done in 30 hrs. ( 20 hrs or so of hunting)

2k done on CP cave : highest was 30x multi. Returns around 78.some% ( I don't have exact decimal % in my mind as the numbers are on a different laptop)

Not just mine bristles have literally given 250x to way more people and it sucks for someone who losses at 10-20 ped/mob and gets his multi's only on 2-4ped mob.

Crafting similar story. Last 2500 clicks on a 6 ped/click bp gave me 4.86 ped/click back. Quantity ofcourse and qr 80+.

well unfortunately those are really low kill counts... as i said, 20k kills and one 250x multi for me. if i were you id try to reproduce it on the bristles and if you get so many again it seems to be bugged or something else. but i doubt its reproducable.
so far i only had one multiplier over 250x and that was a 750x qaffaz alpha (1,3 ped per kill).
unfortunately the biggest impact on returns nowadays is luck. if you dont have it you are gonna have a hard time. and i dont have any of it :D
 
well unfortunately those are really low kill counts... as i said, 20k kills and one 250x multi for me. if i were you id try to reproduce it on the bristles and if you get so many again it seems to be bugged or something else. but i doubt its reproducable.
so far i only had one multiplier over 250x and that was a 750x qaffaz alpha (1,3 ped per kill).
unfortunately the biggest impact on returns nowadays is luck. if you dont have it you are gonna have a hard time. and i dont have any of it :D

We differ in perspective. Its not luck, its mathematics. Your 750x was a 250x *3. Its also not about 5k hofs on bery to be honest as much as multipliers being reduced on higher hp mobs and increased on lower hp ones.

Anyone hunts enough can know the difference from earlier in terms of the variance in loot. I am not debating the fact that if i do 100k loot instances i will not reach 95% but the fact that what earlier took me 5-10k loot instances is not happening anymore. 10k loots on a 10 ped mob is 100k in turnover. For a 40 ped mob thats 400k turnover. One would imagine its a fair sample to be done to expect to be around the average returns.

What this means is that people will need bigger bankrolls to fund bigger swings to get to the same point all in the name of loot being made *interesting*.
 
What this means is that people will need bigger bankrolls to fund bigger swings to get to the same point all in the name of loot being made *interesting*.
Mayhem isn't here yet. Big events seem to pay out more. It's not provable or anything, but I have always had a suspicion, as have many others in the forums over the years if you read between the lines of many threads, that the reasons events pay out more is because the system stores it to pay it out at 'the right time' to get more people wanting to participate in the events... if it is true, it more or less essentially works like a progressive jackpot in real life essentially.. but where the time for the jackpot to payout isn't nearly as random as a real life slot island in a real life casino.
 




2 ped/click BP at approx 8.2 peds/min success. Feel free to make your own conclusions. I know some will say i was due. For those i am ready to do another 500 clicks on EPIV bp on quantity provided anyone is ready to bear the loss.
 
Check the Loot 2.0 follow up, they clarify there is no such thing as a kill timer or anything just that it is generally advised to kill targets faster (most likely to avoid regen, which is not optimal and is most likely primarily returned as shrapnel)



nothing really too complicated

Please go and test this before parroting MA bullshit.

I've proved beyond a doubt that there is a loot timer. (1000+ aurlis_

And don't give me bulllshit like "it was the mob regen" - that's the equivalent of a loot timer!

Ma lied about scopes+sights, and they are lying about this.

Or more accurately, Customer service reps who know nothing about mathematics are parroting loopholes, and you're eating it up
 
Absolute B*** S*** is what it is at currently. losing 2k peds per day with approx 80% + or - tt returns is fucking ridiculous when u keep seeing 3-4k kerb old's. I don't give a fucking damn to the idiots on forum who don't mind hunting punies and consider it as entertainment at lvl 80,90,100+. This is not what skilling is meant to do so you get shafted by the fact that MA has put way more multi's on lower tt mobs.

So they can kiss my a** and i'll go back to leeching instead of contributing to the economy by playing the game.


F*ck this S*it.

Divinity out.


AMEN!
Some bigger loots on smaller mobs, I'm OK with (1-2 times a month maybe, once a week max) I also am sick of hearing go hunt smaller mobs when yea I'm near lvl 80. Can't really even sell skills - more and more game shows me skilling is dead - hunt small, buy boxes, and piss off with lag.

Haven't spent since migration, and at this rate won't spend for MM, or even log in.
 
Don't know about all of the above, but my loot (tt return) was steady and very acceptable until this skill bonus/mulmun stuff started when it immediately nose dived. Very noticeable difference. Unplayable.
 
that was just saving up for messi's hof :)
outside event hofs ftw, the ones doing them are idiots (yea me)
Don't know about all of the above, but my loot (tt return) was steady and very acceptable until this skill bonus/mulmun stuff started when it immediately nose dived. Very noticeable difference. Unplayable.
 
I don't have time to waste replying on forums so i'll keep it short and sweet. Same number of mobs done on 2-4 ped mobs gave ME 4+ 250x multi's and the same number on higher ones gives me none. Before commenting without knowing, try it out and see the reality and not just quote some BS that has been fed to you based on past experience.

This is not about the 5k hof's but the fact that small mobs give multi way more often and this is from personal experience and not someone else's. I have hunted on all sizes enough to know the difference.

Told you months ago, that the games broke.
I get the same tt value loot on Daikaba guardians, as I do on an osseo.
 
Please go and test this before parroting MA bullshit.

I've proved beyond a doubt that there is a loot timer. (1000+ aurlis_

And don't give me bulllshit like "it was the mob regen" - that's the equivalent of a loot timer!

Ma lied about scopes+sights, and they are lying about this.

Or more accurately, Customer service reps who know nothing about mathematics are parroting loopholes, and you're eating it up

mob regen is not the equivalent of a loot timer... that would imply that ALL mobs have the same amount of regen. please go ahead and test your bullshit "theory" on a mob with low regen and witrh high regen and then test out your times. you will see that both times it doesnt matter how long you fight but rather how much the mob regened. its so incredibly obvious that i cant get how you cant see this. if you test and want to provide your test results then please do proper testing and not this bullshit. calling that a test is a disgrace to everyone who actually tests out stuff.
 
Told you months ago, that the games broke.
I get the same tt value loot on Daikaba guardians, as I do on an osseo.

While I do agree things are off lately. That statement is simply untrue. Unless you have 10 dodges on the daikiba and all crits on the Osseo, loot is entirely cost based then multi applied.
 
Please go and test this before parroting MA bullshit.

I've proved beyond a doubt that there is a loot timer. (1000+ aurlis_

And don't give me bulllshit like "it was the mob regen" - that's the equivalent of a loot timer!

Ma lied about scopes+sights, and they are lying about this.

Or more accurately, Customer service reps who know nothing about mathematics are parroting loopholes, and you're eating it up

I somehow doubt you controlled for regen in your testing.

To test for a timer you would want to do: 1 shot with weakest weapon possible, wait X time you see fit, then blow it away with XTLC 1000. Anything else would be a test of regen being a factor.

Regen =/= Loot timer

Regen = +kill cost
Evade/Dodge= +kill cost
 
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While I do agree things are off lately. That statement is simply untrue. Unless you have 10 dodges on the daikiba and all crits on the Osseo, loot is entirely cost based then multi applied.

Sorry, but constant 1.7 ped on oss and average loot of about 1 ped on a daik alpha for example, something is clearly not right.

Same with kerb, shoot an old 100 times, and then shoot 100 stalkers. Big difference in the loot. Yup, olds loot better per cost to kill.
 
Funny how it's so easy to disprove the loot timer hypothesis, yet no one has
 
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