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Can somebody explain to me how this 97% return thing works?

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sagedivine

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Joined
Jul 11, 2016
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51
I have depoed 45 bucks and i had some ped left in my account. I have managed to cycle 2000k peds with it still have 300 peds. Im mining Typolonic Alicenies good MU stuff. When will my account balance to 97 percent I also had 2k peds last year. Lost it all. Will I get that 2k peds back or its gone?
 
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When you say you've cycled 2000k do you mean 2,000ped or 2,000,000ped?
 
So many variables that we don't know off..
You could be using high mu amps or drillers that are uneco that affect your TT result (wich we also have no clue about), not to metion taxed vs untaxed area's..

If you really want an answer tailered to your situation, you'll have to give us a shitload more ACCURATE info.

What this basicly boils down to is my 'track & learn' method..
Track every pec in & out & you'll get an idea where your peds are leaking.
 
Mining does not usually do quite as good as hunting return wise.

You are also not looking at this the right way.

You say you have turned over 2000 ped. At ~95% TT return that will mean you lose 100 ped. However if you only started with 450 ped that means you would be at 350 ped after the turnover.

Now since you say are lower than that after selling stuff for MU then you either have a ped leak or a turnover problem. Probably both. Starting out in something costs more since you have no skill at it. Using lower efficiency items costs more. You should not expect to get that TT back.

Mining is pretty ped intensive and 450 ped really is not a lot of ped. It can be hard to build up big enough stacks to auction, which means you have to do smaller runs or use resellers and lose MU. Smaller runs means you may not survive long enough to get a good multiplier to bring you up to what your TT return should be.
 
Yes im mining at treasure island, I use finder 103. Extractor 102. I know there is tax there but the MU is too good so I stayed there. I try to mine at ashi coz there is no tax there but the Finds are tt food mostly.
 
I'm no miner but I really suggest that you track it, I uploaded a screenshot of my hunting sheet in my gallery
 
Svena said:
Mining does not usually do quite as good as hunting return wise.

You are also not looking at this the right way.

You say you have turned over 2000 ped. At ~95% TT return that will mean you lose 100 ped. However if you only started with 450 ped that means you would be at 350 ped after the turnover.

Now since you say are lower than that after selling stuff for MU then you either have a ped leak or a turnover problem. Probably both. Starting out in something costs more since you have no skill at it. Using lower efficiency items costs more. You should not expect to get that TT back.

Mining is pretty ped intensive and 450 ped really is not a lot of ped. It can be hard to build up big enough stacks to auction, which means you have to do smaller runs or use resellers and lose MU. Smaller runs means you may not survive long enough to get a good multiplier to bring you up to what your TT return should be.
Click to expand...


So i need to make my runs longer. Im doing 20 ped runs 5 to 10 times a day. Im level 10 both proffession. Hunting will drain my ped card faster coz i dont get MU. Mostly when I global its doesnt bring me up to my starting peds.
 
I thought MA said ped cycled doesnt matter only loot events is important. For cycling 2k peds I think I should have gotten atleast 1 global. Thats 4000 drops or loot events. I only mine Enmatter.
 
Wait, how many times did you turnover that 2k? Because eventually it will become 300 ped at 97%

And getting unamped globals planetside is very rare. You can turnover much more without hitting one.
 
sagedivine said:
I have depoed 45 bucks and i had some ped left in my account. I have managed to cycle 2000k peds with it still have 300 peds. Im mining Typolonic Alicenies good MU stuff. When will my account balance to 97 percent I also had 2k peds last year. Lost it all. Will I get that 2k peds back or its gone?
Click to expand...

As pointed out, there are many variables, but put simply-ish, things here run on probability curves and you need to be able to gather yourself a large sample size to get close to average returns. If you have been mining enmatter at basically 50 pecs a go then 2k peds is 4000 drops. I don't do much mining now, but I would assume I would get about 4x 50 ped globals in 4000 drops, 2x 100 and 1x 200. That is not very many hits (or not) that can change the results quite a lot. In your case you could be due (statistically) for a 100 or 200 pedder, but we don't actually know the underlying probabilities. You might also hit a rarer find too, of course. Then it is a question of whether you get it 'early, on time, or late' statistically speaking.
 
Svena said:
Mining does not usually do quite as good as hunting return wise.

You are also not looking at this the right way.

You say you have turned over 2000 ped. At ~95% TT return that will mean you lose 100 ped. However if you only started with 450 ped that means you would be at 350 ped after the turnover.

Now since you say are lower than that after selling stuff for MU then you either have a ped leak or a turnover problem. Probably both. Starting out in something costs more since you have no skill at it. Using lower efficiency items costs more. You should not expect to get that TT back.

Mining is pretty ped intensive and 450 ped really is not a lot of ped. It can be hard to build up big enough stacks to auction, which means you have to do smaller runs or use resellers and lose MU. Smaller runs means you may not survive long enough to get a good multiplier to bring you up to what your TT return should be.
Click to expand...


Actually I started with 500 peds, Im not doing anything crazy like big amps, the swing is really big. Im still not getting my equalizer.
 
Cycles 2000peds
Spend 150 ped
Therefore 1850 peds looted from 2000
92.5% return.
Complaining.
 
Killahbee said:
Wait, how many times did you turnover that 2k? Because eventually it will become 300 ped at 97%

And getting unamped globals planetside is very rare. You can turnover much more without hitting one.
Click to expand...

I cycled 500 peds 4 times so 2000. I think the MU is not enough to cover the loss for the Taxed area. MA takes 3 percent + 4 percent Taxed land area = 93%. 2000 X 93 percent = 1860. And then 2000 - 1860 = 140 ped loss so ill be at 360 peds. But im at 250 peds + my 50 peds depo. Im down quite alot.
 
who told u about 97 % ? lol , only way to get that high is if u go triple bomb on arkadia no tax
 
97% is the average among all players. You made back 92.5% and someone made 101.5% and together you fit the statistics (along with those guys who made 80% and 114%).
 
sagedivine said:
I cycled 500 peds 4 times so 2000.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between cycling 2k PED and cycling 500 PED x4

Asuming a constant return 97% it is:

Cycling 2000 PED => 2000x0.97=1940 PED

Cycling 500 PED ==> 500x0.97=485 => 485x0.97=470.45 => 470.45x0.97=456.33 => 456.33x0.97=442.64

So if you cycle 2000 PED once and get the 97% return constant its a 3% loss
Cycling 500 PED x 4 (2000 PED) you have a loss 11.5% (442.64 PED left after 4th run) although you constantly got the 97% return.

Thats the main failure many players in EU do by calculating there returns.

You can continue that after 10 or 20 times cycled you are below 50% or even worse but that doesn´t mean you didn´t get the average returns per run someone can expect.

Beside that the 97% returns is with Top Eco and maxed skills, looking at your gear its not top eco - on top taxed mining is not top eco.

So don´t blame MA blame yourself.
 
GoNi said:
There is a difference between cycling 2k PED and cycling 500 PED x4

Asuming a constant return 97% it is:

Cycling 2000 PED => 2000x0.97=1940 PED

Cycling 500 PED ==> 500x0.97=485 => 485x0.97=470.45 => 470.45x0.97=456.33 => 456.33x0.97=442.64

So if you cycle 2000 PED once and get the 97% return constant its a 3% loss
Cycling 500 PED x 4 (2000 PED) you have a loss 11.5% (442.64 PED left after 4th run) although you constantly got the 97% return.

Thats the main failure many players in EU do by calculating there returns.

You can continue that after 10 or 20 times cycled you are below 50% or even worse but that doesn´t mean you didn´t get the average returns per run someone can expect.

Beside that the 97% returns is with Top Eco and maxed skills, looking at your gear its not top eco - on top taxed mining is not top eco.

So don´t blame MA blame yourself.
Click to expand...


I am maxed with my tool, I cant get anymore ecoer with the finder coz MU on enhancers are ridiculous. So im supposed to invest 500 peds and then buy all the probes and just continue mining instead of cutting my runs into smaller runs? And Btw some runs I only get 65 percent return. so 97% everyrun is kinda BS.
 
And I mined for Green Leaf Mining before, Neil gives me 200 peds every run, and the returns are just the same when I run with my 20 peds each run. sometimes 50 sometimes 90 sometimes 110. If I mine straight with 500 peds, thats a lot of drops, i will still get sometimes 50 to 90 percent after all that work. And I was mining Good MU stuff, so my losses should not be that high. Im at about 250 peds with MU. Even if I was not the ecoest player I should have atleast broke even or lower than 500 peds including the MU.
 
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Every time you go out you should expect to lose a little bit.

That's how the system is designed.

If you go out enough times you should expect to be broke.

That's how the system is designed.

If you go out with 450 PED and you get the average of 97% (which is not guaranteed to you) you would return with 436.50.

If you go out again work that 436.50 PED and again you get the average of 97% (no guarantee) you would return with 423.41 PED.

After 13 of these trips you would be at around 300 PED.

On a long enough timeline everyone who hunts, mines, or crafts goes broke.

You should not expect your PED balance to increase.
 
GoNi said:
There is a difference between cycling 2k PED and cycling 500 PED x4

Asuming a constant return 97% it is:

Cycling 2000 PED => 2000x0.97=1940 PED

Cycling 500 PED ==> 500x0.97=485 => 485x0.97=470.45 => 470.45x0.97=456.33 => 456.33x0.97=442.64

So if you cycle 2000 PED once and get the 97% return constant its a 3% loss
Cycling 500 PED x 4 (2000 PED) you have a loss 11.5% (442.64 PED left after 4th run) although you constantly got the 97% return.
Click to expand...
You have yourself made a bit of an error there (or worded it badly/confusingly?).
If you look at the two examples you give, the actual loss over the period is basically the same (60 peds). The reason for the small difference is that the second example is not a full 2k drops, so the expected loss is a bit lower.
If you mean that people often take the wrong baseline and say they have lost over 10% of their 500 peds, when it has actually been a turnover of 2k and a loss of 3% on that, then yes, I agree :)

To the OP: did you see my earlier comment above? Do you know what globals you have had so far?
 
jetsina said:
You have yourself made a bit of an error there (or worded it badly/confusingly?).
If you look at the two examples you give, the actual loss over the period is basically the same (60 peds). The reason for the small difference is that the second example is not a full 2k drops, so the expected loss is a bit lower.
If you mean that people often take the wrong baseline and say they have lost over 10% of their 500 peds, when it has actually been a turnover of 2k and a loss of 3% on that, then yes, I agree :)

To the OP: did you see my earlier comment above? Do you know what globals you have had so far?
Click to expand...


After cycling the 500 ped 4 times, Nada. Not a single global only a 30 pedder, which isnt enough. Im mining TYPO 150 Alicenies 112 to 120 and Lyta 110. I know im not supposed to profit tt wise but where did My MU go? MA said they dont care about MU but sometime even if i got my global my ped card was already 0, so im stuck with the ped that i should have gotten.
 
thoreau said:
Every time you go out you should expect to lose a little bit.

That's how the system is designed.

If you go out enough times you should expect to be broke.

That's how the system is designed.

If you go out with 450 PED and you get the average of 97% (which is not guaranteed to you) you would return with 436.50.

If you go out again work that 436.50 PED and again you get the average of 97% (no guarantee) you would return with 423.41 PED.

After 13 of these trips you would be at around 300 PED.

On a long enough timeline everyone who hunts, mines, or crafts goes broke.

You should not expect your PED balance to increase.
Click to expand...


Yep i know thats why i go for MU stuff to cover that loss, but when you do that your globals take forever.
 
So if you start @ 500 PEDS in your ped card.


Cycled 97% +5% tax = 92% Return


ON AVERAGE!! for 2000 cycled -> 1840 Peds returned.

so you'll be left with 340 peds or so (not accounting for volatility...)

The tax is killer btw.
 
Jhereg said:
So if you start @ 500 PEDS in your ped card.


Cycled 97% +5% tax = 92% Return


ON AVERAGE!! for 2000 cycled -> 1840 Peds returned.

so you'll be left with 340 peds or so (not accounting for volatility...)

The tax is killer btw.
Click to expand...

So I should stay away from treasure island. Can anyone tell me where i can get typo with no tax?

I dont have 340 peds im at 250 MU included. Thats 50 percent
 
the chances of getting the excact longterm avg % return on a 2000ped cycle is extremely low.
 
Mathilda said:
the chances of getting the excact longterm avg % return on a 2000ped cycle is extremely low.
Click to expand...


If there is no chance to profit atleast add some items with expiration time in the loot. maybe a robot that loots my claims for a day, an armor with expiration time a gun. Maybe unique cars with expiration time. Even thou in the long run i l will lose atleast i had some fun looting some stuff. Not grinding a month and then getting tt food, or sometimes you dont even global. Then they can tell me they charged me 50 bucks for "EXPERIENCE". As of now this is just torture.
 
sagedivine said:
If there is no chance to profit atleast add some items with expiration time in the loot.
Click to expand...

That's actually one of the best ideas I ever heard. If this is technically possible, I'd like to see it implemented yesterday.
 
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