Can somebody explain to me how this 97% return thing works?

You have yourself made a bit of an error there (or worded it badly/confusingly?).
If you look at the two examples you give, the actual loss over the period is basically the same (60 peds). The reason for the small difference is that the second example is not a full 2k drops, so the expected loss is a bit lower.

Thats true, the total loss is the same (second a little lower as its not a full 2k PED run)

But if it comes to percentage its completely different.

2k PED in 1940 out = 97% return

500 PED in 442,64 out = 88.5% return

Both samples have exactly the same TT value loss if exactly same amount PEDs cycled as we assumed the return is constant 97%.

The problem I wanted to point to is that if you cycle your loots again and again you go away from the magical 97% (compared to starting balance) with every further run although you might actually hit it every run.
 
After cycling the 500 ped 4 times, Nada. Not a single global only a 30 pedder, which isnt enough. Im mining TYPO 150 Alicenies 112 to 120 and Lyta 110.

Thanks for the additional info. I don't know the spread of the so-called multiplier loots in mining (you need a x100 multi from enmatter 50 pecs to get a 50 ped global), but personally I would be assuming you should have had at least 2 globals from 4k x 50pec drops. To me it doesn't actually look as if the land area tax versus additional mu has hurt you; it's the lack of at least two globals in the 50-100 ped range that now sees you at 250 peds instead of 350-400. However, this is not uncommon statistically.

Your idea is a pretty good one as well, although mostly the fun stuff is simply limited-use like fireworks or creature control capsules, not time-limited in the same way skill buffs are...
 
in mining.... 10,000 drops (i.e. clicks of the finder) is a good measure for "balancing out"

obviously this varies closer to 55k drops if you do indoors. This is why bankroll is important. Even mining unamped you need 1.5k on your card for safety, and i still think that's too risky these days.

inbetween the big kickbacks, you should still be able to get 81-85% tt return, so you need markup to stretch your ped further until the big ones hit.
 
in mining.... 10,000 drops (i.e. clicks of the finder) is a good measure for "balancing out"

obviously this varies closer to 55k drops if you do indoors. This is why bankroll is important. Even mining unamped you need 1.5k on your card for safety, and i still think that's too risky these days.

inbetween the big kickbacks, you should still be able to get 81-85% tt return, so you need markup to stretch your ped further until the big ones hit.

Should be no problem to survive 80% TT even if everything mined is put through the TT - should last 5 times initial outlay.

e.g. 1500 ped would last unamped 7500 drops (ore) or unamped 15000 drops enmat

Lets' say they somehow manage 400 drops a day (as casual i might do 320 tops) so $150US lasts 40 days on enmat

Bare minimum I ever get is 75% (no multils), which would give 6000 ore drops even if TTing everything.
 
Should be no problem to survive 80% TT even if everything mined is put through the TT - should last 5 times initial outlay.

e.g. 1500 ped would last unamped 7500 drops (ore) or unamped 15000 drops enmat

Lets' say they somehow manage 400 drops a day (as casual i might do 320 tops) so $150US lasts 40 days on enmat

Bare minimum I ever get is 75% (no multils), which would give 6000 ore drops even if TTing everything.


well, i think ill play this game when i have some cash flow. It takes the fun out if your bankroll is too tight.
 
That's actually one of the best ideas I ever heard. If this is technically possible, I'd like to see it implemented yesterday.

yeah, it would make mining more exciting. Coz the runs will feel different everytime. Maybe you lose 60 percent now but got a cool clothing or aura for a limited amount of time. rocket boots or boots thats lets you run faster for awhile. It shouldnt hurt the economy coz it expires maybe in an hour or 2.
 
So if you start @ 500 PEDS in your ped card.


Cycled 97% +5% tax = 92% Return


ON AVERAGE!! for 2000 cycled -> 1840 Peds returned.

so you'll be left with 340 peds or so (not accounting for volatility...)

The tax is killer btw.

92.38% , your math is off imo
 
You have good answers, I just wanted to add a few of my own. Mining on a 500 ped bankroll is difficult, as you found out, it may not be enough to weather the no-global streaks. It's not uncommon to cycle 2000 ped without a global; our record at GMC for a single miner is 20k+ ped unamped cycled without a global. GMC's long term TT return is very close to 99% (over 4M loot attempts, excluding tool decay, and without any ATH-level multipliers). Globals these days are pretty small (and therefore run returns are more steady than most months)... in other words, it's not unusual to go 2k ped without an enmatter global. I will also add that MA changes mining loot behavior wildly from week to week and month to month.

I recommend upgrading to a finder that has 55m search radius, which will add 2% to your TT return. And of course, mining tax also reduces the TT return.
 
You have good answers, I just wanted to add a few of my own. Mining on a 500 ped bankroll is difficult, as you found out, it may not be enough to weather the no-global streaks. It's not uncommon to cycle 2000 ped without a global; our record at GMC for a single miner is 20k+ ped unamped cycled without a global. GMC's long term TT return is very close to 99% (over 4M loot attempts, excluding tool decay, and without any ATH-level multipliers). Globals these days are pretty small (and therefore run returns are more steady than most months)... in other words, it's not unusual to go 2k ped without an enmatter global. I will also add that MA changes mining loot behavior wildly from week to week and month to month.

I recommend upgrading to a finder that has 55m search radius, which will add 2% to your TT return. And of course, mining tax also reduces the TT return.

Thanks neil, 20000 ped cycled holy sh*t lol. Eh, ill be back when i have more peds. its really pointless to continue if i cant survive the dips. Ill remember all your advices, no tax area better gear more peds, bigger runs. might use lbml again.
 
Your math is wrong because,

BLUE
 
I thought MA said ped cycled doesnt matter only loot events is important. For cycling 2k peds I think I should have gotten atleast 1 global. Thats 4000 drops or loot events. I only mine Enmatter.

2000ped cycled from 450ped deposited...

That's been cycled 4x.

(.97^4)*450 = 398.

So you're down about 98 ped from what is expected... one small global would reset you. Unfortunately, as it's basically gambling, when that global would come is unknown.
 
2000ped cycled from 450ped deposited...

That's been cycled 4x.

(.97^4)*450 = 398.

So you're down about 98 ped from what is expected... one small global would reset you. Unfortunately, as it's basically gambling, when that global would come is unknown.

:wise: i like a clear formula :clap:
 
its really pointless to continue if i cant survive the dips.

No its not pointless.
You just need to cover the loss by other activitys like trading, Fap jobs, sweating, fruit walks or whatever you find that can make you the lost PED back in a reasonable time frame.

Lets say you lost 10 PED you can cover that even with sweating or fruit walks.
If loss is higher I would recomend trading, as money comes in faster. But you need to do your homework and learn the market to do that.

When you covered the loss from your last run, start again with your 500 PED.

Sooner or later you will hit a bigger one, so you can start with more PED into mining.
At that higher level do it the same way, cover your losses by other activitys befor going out mining again.

This way you will increase the value of your avatar and get bigger bankroll over time.

It just needs time and some patience.
If you go out again and again without covering your losses, your balance will get lower and PED card run dry.
It needs some patience to survive.

Edit:
Or regular deposits to cover the losses, but thats another story and only for those who have enough RL income to do that :)
 
Sure he can cover his loss with another activities, but if the goal is just making peds and if he finds mining boring than I dont see why you would waste peds and than cover that loss with doing something else. I mean you can just do something else and stop mining ;). That way you make profit all the time
 
You can't really profit by "cycling Peds", you have to treat the game like a job if you want to break even or profit.

If you're not treating it like a job, then you are paying for entertainment.

If you are not entertained sufficiently vs. the amount of payment in your judgement. Stop.
 
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