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Back on the Batsim and cheating again

lethal

lethal

Prowler
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Posts
1,138
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lethal jewgirl saint
READ ALL OF THE POST BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMMENT

Let me start off by saying that I love the batsim for the fact that it's a skill based mini-game in EU where you don't have to deal with the disadvantages of not having a ton of money and time put into the game. That's part of the reason that I care enough to keep trying to resolve the same issue for so long.

Anyways, now that there are a lot more skilled players and people who regularly do 50+ attempts a week at the battle simulator. I'm sure it's becoming a lot more obvious that the first place runs are not legitimate. So the issue is how to handle this. Support is a joke, and won't do anything about cheating. Their job seems to be to only write responses and weed out any report that isn't absolutely crucial to the games well being. If you truly believe they take action against anyone cheating (as long as the stealing/ game abuse is only taking from players), just refer to the zero action taken against: the use of hunting bots, sleipnir hunting on a stream with a mindark official even coming out and witnessing it first hand, and what's probably the most fresh in everyone's mind, the use of a pill exploit to stack pills that didn't originally stack in order to gain an unfair advantage over others in Mayhem Solo. (PM me if you want specific details over any of this)

Keep in mind that no placements changed even with the staff being notified that players were using the pill exploit well before prizes were handed out. They even went a step further to avoid having to sort out the cheaters by handing out prizes early. (January 30th instead of their stated "◾Feb. 5 - Event results announced. Prizes awarded in the following days.") And if you're on the fence about whether that was actually breaking any of the rules MA stated for the event, then have yourself a read. "Any attempt at abusing team mechanics or any other Entropia Universe systems or features in order to gain an unfair advantage over other participants will be grounds for disqualification from the event, forfeiture of any prizes, and possible sanctions imposed on one’s Entropia Universe account." If you believe that relogging in order to stack pills that can't be regularly stacked by players isn't even an ATTEMPT at abusing Entropia Universe systems to gain an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PARTICIPANTS, then there really isn't any hope for you honestly. Either that or you should brush up on your English to help you understand that statement made by MA.

Anyways, now that I've made the point that MA is severely lacking in their follow through of their own TOS and even their own specifically made rules for an event, I'll get back to my main problem. What can be done about the cheating in the battle simulator? I would love to hear some feedback from more of the actual top battle simulator runners. Seriously, don't make a comment about what's going on in the battle simulator if you don't know shit about the battle simulator its self. The battle simulator has been out for a long time and many of us have done 1k+ runs to get where we are. The top 5 runs with the exception of first are always within the same general area because the run is nearly perfected. There is no 30-40 seconds to shave off of our average weekly best times.
 
I'm not sure about the first place, but there was someone who posted a youtube vid with a 7 minute run on the forum not long ago.
If the first place holder is somehow cheating/abusing actions should be taken.
 
first! to say: sorry, i don't do batsim at all. but please stay tuned to the News and Release Notes sections on the website for further information and developments. and thank you for your patience. and sorry for the inconvenience!
 
Killahbee said:
I'm not sure about the first place, but there was someone who posted a youtube vid with a 7 minute run on the forum not long ago.
If the first place holder is somehow cheating/abusing actions should be taken.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I believe 6:29 is the best legit run. It's probably hard for runners who can't get consistently around low 7 minutes to understand, but getting 6:29 is a combination of almost perfect enemy RNG, making perfect movement lines, and missing almost no shots. In the 6:33 Deadeye posted he had almost perfectly optimal enemy RNG. An equivalent pattern probably only happens once in 50 runs.
 
theProphet said:
first! to say: sorry, i don't do batsim at all. but please stay tuned to the News and Release Notes sections on the website for further information and developments. and thank you for your patience. and sorry for the inconvenience!
Click to expand...

You should apply for MA.
 
I can't comment much on batsim, but:

- hunting bot usage resulted in banning of a horde of very high skilled players and as such dissolving of two of the top-5 societies ingame at that moment (iirc 2007). Their assets have been auctioned public (around 3 years later or so), with announcements on CL, so you're wrong. At least one avatar has been banned later for similar actions, his assets also publicly auctioned.

(here and here)

- sleipnir hunting got one of the FOMA dome owners temporarly banned (in itself being a lesser fault than the first, but still)

- repairable/unlimited lvl13 amp (L) bug got the two perpetrators banned and a horde of players locked until transactions have been resolved (although MA did needed +-1,5 years to finally listen to us that there is something fishy there)

- auction limit at 101 bids got also a horde of players permanently banned and a huge part of players locked until transactions were resolved

- here is an example of how proactive MA actually are with technical stuff. Also from memory I can say there have been players temp or perma banned for: speed hacking, hacking of chat channels, sniffing server-client communication, tampering with core local files

I am writing this just to say that you are wrong, that your knowledge of MA stance on cheating is off and nobody should feel encouraged to even attempt.

If in this case there is cheating, most likely they cannot detect/reproduce it for the moment. I am wondering myself about such a long-lasting coincidence, but will see.

Something important is that MindArk never says when they investigate something. They might be well aware off it and tomorrow ban a whole society or they might not even started, sorting it as less important. We simply cannot know and is better this way.

I encourage you and everyone concerned about this to keep writing here and on support cases about it. But please do not spread misinformation, especially blatant ones like the hunting bots usage.
 
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Kerham said:
I can't comment much on batsim, but:

- hunting bot usage resulted in banning of a horde of very high skilled players and as such dissolving of two of the top-5 societies ingame at that moment (iirc 2007). Their assets have been auctioned public (around 3 years later or so), with announcements on CL, so you're wrong. At least one avatar has been banned later for similar actions, his assets also publicly auctioned.

(here and here)

- sleipnir hunting got one of the FOMA dome owners temporarly banned (in itself being a lesser fault than the first, but still)

- repairable/unlimited lvl13 amp (L) bug got the two perpetrators banned and a horde of players locked until transactions have been resolved (although MA did needed +-1,5 years to finally listen to us that there is something fishy there)

- auction limit at 101 bids got also a horde of players permanently banned and a huge part of players locked until transactions were resolved

- here is an example of how proactive MA actually are with technical stuff. Also from memory I can say there have been players temp or perma banned for: speed hacking, hacking of chat channels, sniffing server-client communication, tampering with core local files

I am writing this just to say that you are wrong, that your knowledge of MA stance on cheating is off and nobody should feel encouraged to even attempt.

If in this case there is cheating, most likely they cannot detect/reproduce it for the moment. I am wondering myself about such a long-lasting coincidence, but will see.

Something important is that MindArk never says when they investigate something. They might be well aware off it and tomorrow ban a whole society or they might not even started, sorting it as less important. We simply cannot know and is better this way.

I encourage you and everyone concerned about this to keep writing here and on support cases about it. But please do not spread misinformation, especially blatant ones like the hunting bots usage.
Click to expand...

I want to repeat myself in saying that MA "weeds out any report that isn't absolutely crucial to the games well being," when referring to their activity against cheating. The auction house bid limit exploit, repairable limited amps, speed hacking, hacking of chat channels, sniffing server-client communication, and tampering with core local files are all pretty crucial to the games well being. I know they will take action on anyone doing something that will destroy a large part of the economy or steal money directly from them, and should have put more emphasis on that than just saying they ignore what they deem to be not crucial.

As for the sleipnir hunting you mentioned and hunting bots, those points are interesting and I never heard of either of them. I do however know of one instance with proof of someone using a hunting bot (which is why I put "bot" singular) and an instance I don't have proof of, but might be able to find if I dig deep enough of mulptiple avatars sleipnir hunting right in front of an MA officials face (it happened on Evey's stream during eomon migration). None of the avatars received even a temp ban to my knowledge, and one of the sleipnir hunters still does it. Maybe MA used to be more proactive on this type of thing. Maybe they just decide to let certain things slide.

Edit: I went to find the clip of the botter just to link to people through PMs if they were curious. I thought it was on TacoTuesedayTV, but can no longer find it. I do remember the avatars name and that they were killing caperons with I think an Eron Soulsplitter or a variant of it. Bonus points to anyone who remembers and can find the clip or send it to me.
 
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Do you like many others do. Pull out your money and play for free.

Then you don't have to stress about playing against cheaters, since you are playing for free.

I could not care two fucks about exploiters in some free to play game.

Mindark has proven to be incompetent and I don't trust incompetent with my money.

They gave out rewards to accounts made in december that were exploiting buff stacking. Do you need any more proof? And that alt accounts creation has always been in game and they always got the rewards so Mindark does not give a shit about cheaters.

As long as Mindark is not loosing money from exploiting/cheating, it's all ok for them. Make them lose money and they will react.
 
Oh god not this again... Deadeye just posted a video a couple weeks ago showing a legit sub 7 minute time. And even then I saw a few ways he could shave off some time as I am able to do certain areas faster than him. People aren't cheating at batsim they are just practicing like crazy to a point runs are becoming muscle memory.

Just because you can't get a top time and every top position isn't posting a video showing their strategy you can't claim everyone is cheating.
 
lethal said:
READ ALL OF THE POST BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMMENT

Let me start off by saying that I love the batsim for the fact that it's a skill based mini-game in EU where you don't have to deal with the disadvantages of not having a ton of money and time put into the game. That's part of the reason that I care enough to keep trying to resolve the same issue for so long.

Anyways, now that there are a lot more skilled players and people who regularly do 50+ attempts a week at the battle simulator. I'm sure it's becoming a lot more obvious that the first place runs are not legitimate. So the issue is how to handle this. Support is a joke, and won't do anything about cheating. Their job seems to be to only write responses and weed out any report that isn't absolutely crucial to the games well being. If you truly believe they take action against anyone cheating (as long as the stealing/ game abuse is only taking from players), just refer to the zero action taken against: the use of hunting bots, sleipnir hunting on a stream with a mindark official even coming out and witnessing it first hand, and what's probably the most fresh in everyone's mind, the use of a pill exploit to stack pills that didn't originally stack in order to gain an unfair advantage over others in Mayhem Solo. (PM me if you want specific details over any of this)

Keep in mind that no placements changed even with the staff being notified that players were using the pill exploit well before prizes were handed out. They even went a step further to avoid having to sort out the cheaters by handing out prizes early. (January 30th instead of their stated "◾Feb. 5 - Event results announced. Prizes awarded in the following days.") And if you're on the fence about whether that was actually breaking any of the rules MA stated for the event, then have yourself a read. "Any attempt at abusing team mechanics or any other Entropia Universe systems or features in order to gain an unfair advantage over other participants will be grounds for disqualification from the event, forfeiture of any prizes, and possible sanctions imposed on one’s Entropia Universe account." If you believe that relogging in order to stack pills that can't be regularly stacked by players isn't even an ATTEMPT at abusing Entropia Universe systems to gain an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PARTICIPANTS, then there really isn't any hope for you honestly. Either that or you should brush up on your English to help you understand that statement made by MA.

Anyways, now that I've made the point that MA is severely lacking in their follow through of their own TOS and even their own specifically made rules for an event, I'll get back to my main problem. What can be done about the cheating in the battle simulator? I would love to hear some feedback from more of the actual top battle simulator runners. Seriously, don't make a comment about what's going on in the battle simulator if you don't know shit about the battle simulator its self. The battle simulator has been out for a long time and many of us have done 1k+ runs to get where we are. The top 5 runs with the exception of first are always within the same general area because the run is nearly perfected. There is no 30-40 seconds to shave off of our average weekly best times.
Click to expand...

thats why im selling out after 12year in game and tons of $ depo :) not because of bad loot, but because of boters, exploiters ,cheaters... and closed MA eyes on them... all u can do, sell out and leave.
 
I would rather try to solve the problems than abandon the game entirely. Unfortunately EU is a one of a kind game, so if this is the type of game I want to play, then I have to struggle through the incompetence of their staff and look to the community to help out.
 
So it's ok to sleipnir (or in this case gungnir) hunt mobs as long as you're not doing it all the time? I will say I was a bit hasty in sending that clip to the forum though. I'm not necessarily looking to screw up someone with that much time in the games account as they don't strike me as someone who's dishonest or deserves the sort of backlash that might come from that. Proving a point isn't worth the problems it might cause them though, so I deleted it.
 
lethal said:
Edit: I went to find the clip of the botter just to link to people through PMs if they were curious. I thought it was on TacoTuesedayTV, but can no longer find it. I do remember the avatars name and that they were killing caperons with I think an Eron Soulsplitter or a variant of it. Bonus points to anyone who remembers and can find the clip or send it to me.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you were talking about this one? There are also a few more vids on that channel.

Thats Rocky Animalcommander, also isnt the only video about him botting on the web.

If you want to read more about bots i made a big post a year ago link here

Kerham said:
I encourage you and everyone concerned about this to keep writing here and on support cases about it. But please do not spread misinformation, especially blatant ones like the hunting bots usage.
Click to expand...

See what you just did there? ;)

Botting is a BIG problem, i dont do batsim and i dont know what is happening in there, but bots exist so everything is possible.
 
"Sounds like you were talking about this one? There are also a few more vids on that channel.

Thats Rocky Animalcommander, also isnt the only video about him botting on the web.

If you want to read more about bots i made a big post a year ago link here "


Thanks, Soko! You rock.
 
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Is it still as simple as below videos shows or are their different cheats going on now?

 
LuisArkadov said:
Is it still as simple as below videos shows or are their different cheats going on now?

Click to expand...

There must be other cheats going on because that is not going to get you a 6 minute time; but the most obvious thing is that the avatar doesn't even try to hide it through alts. He wins every week; maybe he is just stunningly good at batsim :)
 
LuisArkadov said:
Is it still as simple as below videos shows or are their different cheats going on now?

Click to expand...


That vid is abut 1 yr old ? if so..there were problems with keys and mapping ,using other gear etc inside the batsim..but they patched it some months ago..
 
That's an interesting video. If there's still a way to get an ares ring on or put any fire rate buffs on that would do it since dps is the limiter that keeps everyone elses best times around 6:30.
 
gwit said:
There must be other cheats going on because that is not going to get you a 6 minute time; but the most obvious thing is that the avatar doesn't even try to hide it through alts. He wins every week; maybe he is just stunningly good at batsim :)
Click to expand...


If this were the case, then there would be no reason for them to not upload a video of the run like they used to with the old battle simulator layout when they only got times that were doable. Deadeye uploaded his 6:33 run, and he still ends up in second every week he decides to run the battle simulator. If they're somehow getting sub 6:10 runs legitimately, there's no way someone will be able to reproduce it just because they've seen it, No one who hadn't previously gotten a run under 6:35 has gotten one since Deadeye uploaded the video, and that was months ago.
 
lethal said:
If this were the case, then there would be no reason for them to not upload a video of the run like they used to with the old battle simulator layout when they only got times that were doable. Deadeye uploaded his 6:33 run, and he still ends up in second every week he decides to run the battle simulator. If they're somehow getting sub 6:10 runs legitimately, there's no way someone will be able to reproduce it just because they've seen it, No one who hadn't previously gotten a run under 6:35 has gotten one since Deadeye uploaded the video, and that was months ago.
Click to expand...

Just because someone has a better time, does not mean they have to upload a video proving the run is legit. If it is not legit, MA will look at it and deal appropriately. How do you know that MA haven't already looked into it and found nothing wrong with that persons runs to constitute cheating? You have already opened a support case. As per any investigation, they will not advise you of the outcome.

The person has far more to lose by uploading a video than not, of course if the person has been cheating it would show it, but then if they have not it could give other competitors an insight into what they have been doing wrong and allow for a chance for them to get ahead.

Even looking at deadeye's video you can see areas where it could be improved to decrease the time....of course lots of other factors would come into play including RNG...but its still possible....what you are pretty much saying is that it's impossible to get the run that the person is doing, when you have not proved that is the case. Why should someone prove to you that they can do it? Their score is proof enough
 
lethal, your only proof of that player cheating is that you (or anyone else) can't beat her/his time. I'll tell you a secret - that isn't proof and won't get you far. I've recently heard a saying - "no matter what you do, there's someone doing it better" so there is probably someone that can actually beat that time but they don't play BatSim...

lethal said:
If this were the case, then there would be no reason for them to not upload a video of the run like they used to with the old battle simulator layout when they only got times that were doable.
Click to expand...
Let me give you a few possible reasons:

- Humanity hasn't invented yet a PC powerful enough on which you can play Entropia lag free ;) and since every frame matters in Batsim, why waste it on recording?
- maybe he or she just doesnt care much to prove anyone anything and it's not something to blame them for :)
- maybe there's a better strategy you or others don't know yet and it's better kept secret, because guess what, best time gets more money... why give that edge away?
- maybe besides the shiny PED, the drama that comes with the whole thing is a bonus, extra reward? :D
 
Darth Revan said:
Just because someone has a better time, does not mean they have to upload a video proving the run is legit. If it is not legit, MA will look at it and deal appropriately. How do you know that MA haven't already looked into it and found nothing wrong with that persons runs to constitute cheating? You have already opened a support case. As per any investigation, they will not advise you of the outcome.

The person has far more to lose by uploading a video than not, of course if the person has been cheating it would show it, but then if they have not it could give other competitors an insight into what they have been doing wrong and allow for a chance for them to get ahead.

Even looking at deadeye's video you can see areas where it could be improved to decrease the time....of course lots of other factors would come into play including RNG...but its still possible....what you are pretty much saying is that it's impossible to get the run that the person is doing, when you have not proved that is the case. Why should someone prove to you that they can do it? Their score is proof enough
Click to expand...

Have you not been listening to anything that's been said in this thread? Half of my argument is that MA won't handle it appropriately just as they haven't with many other things in recent history. Not even going to type out anything more about it in this comment, just go back and read for yourself. I know it's probably hard to understand where the dps and movement speed walls are for people who haven't run the battle simulator 1k+ times, but the stars really have to align for a sub 6:20 just based on DPS needed to kill all of the enemies alone. And this just happens for one player every week within a few runs every week?( no I'm not saying they only do a few runs total, they only do a few runs before having a time around sub 6:15) For enemy RNG equivalently as good as Deadeye had in his run he uploaded I would only put it around a 1 in 40 chance. Keep in mind that missing a shot only loses around 1 second since the reload speed is 60 shots/minute on the batsim rocket launcher.
 
lethal said:
Have you not been listening to anything that's been said in this thread? Half of my argument is that MA won't handle it appropriately just as they haven't with many other things in recent history.
Click to expand...

Half of what argument? Handle what appropriately? Your sadness that you can't beat 6.20 or w/e?
How do you know they aren't constantly looking at those times and players? Why should you be informed of everyone's times? Please reconsider this "case" :D
No one owns you explanations. But feel free to start bumping this daily, I've seen a trend in bumping silly threads
 
lethal said:
Have you not been listening to anything that's been said in this thread? Half of my argument is that MA won't handle it appropriately just as they haven't with many other things in recent history.
Click to expand...

Again, how do you know that they haven't handled it appropriately?? Is it because they haven't told you the outcome? Or because that person is still winning the batsim each week? Let me say this again to you so you can read:

AS PER ANY INVESTIGATION, MA WILL NOT ADVISE YOU OF THE OUTCOME

So, if they investigated and found the person is innocent, they will not tell you. If they find the person cheating, they will not tell you. Sure if the person has cheated they may ban that person temp or permanently. They may also just remove PED from that person balance or put restrictions on that person. Not everything results in a ban. Again they will not tell you the outcome.

lethal said:
And this just happens for one player every week within a few runs every week?( no I'm not saying they only do a few runs total, they only do a few runs before having a time around sub 6:15)
Click to expand...

How would you know this? If you do not finish the batsim, you time is not recorded. They could simply mess up and exit out knowing that they wont win and forgo the winnings for that run....wasting time finishing a run may not be worth it to them. The return on winning first place could easily outset many runs given up. Again, your proof on this is what...your word??

lethal said:
For enemy RNG equivalently as good as Deadeye had in his run he uploaded I would only put it around a 1 in 40 chance.
Click to expand...

Those odds are pretty damn good if you ask me...i wish my local lottery place had those odds.


Again, all of what you have put is speculation. You assume that if you can't do it, then no one else can.
I'm guessing you must be a top e-sport FPS competitor who has won multiple championships to have that claim....but then so could the person who has number 1 spot...how would we know?
 
Easy to make an argument when you avoid the points made. Let's roll back to MA's oversight of breaking the rules of solo mayhem. Why should I trust their judgement when they won't even uphold their own rules?
 
lethal said:
Easy to make an argument when you avoid the points made. Let's roll back to MA's oversight of breaking the rules of solo mayhem. Why should I trust their judgement when they won't even uphold their own rules?
Click to expand...

Why do you play this game or put money into it? If you really don't trust MA in anything they do, you should walk away now
 
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