Developer Notes #16 - Buff Improvements & More

Barbylicious said:

The crafting changes are terrible. Now a near success nets you 40 to 60% of the value of what you are crafting instead of 10% to 99%. I usually ended up closer to the 90%+ range when getting near success and rarely would get the lower end of the spectrum. Now, every near success means you are getting screwed.

Also, as of today, something has to have been changed as far as multipliers are concerned.

I just did close to 1000 clicks of Simple I and II Plastic Springs and the highest result with the slider almost all the way down was 9 PED.

I have never done so poorly ever before. Doing 1000 clicks of these always gets me at least a 20 or 30 pedder, if not a global or two.

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They did say they would lower volatility for a test period, which explains the reduction in globals. But it should mean also that the low end should move up to compensate. There are two possible factors of influence, frequency and amplitude. How are your overall returns after this run? If they are okay it's a matter of perception, if not then a valid complaint.

Funny how ppl considering 300-1000 clicks a valid test amount.... Yes, near successes are smaller... but end product is more n bigger. Everything costs less to craft now and yes volatililty is way lower too. not one run i had under 80% return and 80-90 times multiplier are quite common now (got 4 or more since test started).

Im all for this new system to stay

Piotr said:

Funny how ppl considering 300-1000 clicks a valid test amount

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I agree, i did what i considered a small test run of 5300 clicks of welding wire and had just under a 91% TT return.
However again i would not consider it proof of anything as it is still too small a run. It was good enough to see how the changes are different in regards to min/max on near success and success and globals, but still for overall return it is still too small a number.

Darth Revan said:

I agree, i did what i considered a small test run of 5300 clicks of welding wire and had just under a 91% TT return.
However again i would not consider it proof of anything as it is still too small a run. It was good enough to see how the changes are different in regards to min/max on near success and success and globals, but still for overall return it is still too small a number.

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Care to share your Power calculations? Sample sizes over 1000 are almost never required.

Piotr said:

Funny how ppl considering 300-1000 clicks a valid test amount.... Yes, near successes are smaller... but end product is more n bigger. Everything costs less to craft now and yes volatililty is way lower too. not one run i had under 80% return and 80-90 times multiplier are quite common now (got 4 or more since test started).

Im all for this new system to stay

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The results of small click runs are important for crafters who provide the market with a high variety of items and only have a 4 digit bankroll and/or want to get the QR up on a new BP...

A requirement, like 5+k clicks for good return 90+%, just removes many people as potential crafters for crafts that costs 7-30 PED a click...

I believe most people that stick to entropia prefer high swings over a stable return simply for the fact that its more obvious you gonna lose your peds on a flat loot curve compared to the hell and heaven swings on a more erratic loot distribution. That is because a stable loot kills the superficial odds for that one big catch, that will fix all of your past bad runs.

Whenever mindark tinkers with the loot to make returns more predictable and make our money lasting longer , complains raising and activity drop. While people WANT that big swings, they say they won't and ask for more stable returns. Mindark is being stuck between a rock and a hard place here. The root of all those problems is their inability to give their loots markup other than alternating the rarety of some loots. Nobody wants a stable 95% return if you know you can't recoup that lost 5% because there is no markup on your loots.


Its still better to use no armor at all, no heal at all , no enhancer at all. All those things are bad for your returns, how can a market work when consuming put you at disadvantage ? UL items turn people into autonomous beings that have zero interaction with the market exept flooding it with more loot but never consume any. Anyone else see the problem ?

Fiona Simmons said:

I believe most people that stick to entropia prefer high swings over a stable return simply for the fact that its more obvious you gonna lose your peds on a flat loot curve compared to the hell and heaven swings on a more erratic loot distribution. That is because a stable loot kills the superficial odds for that one big catch, that will fix all of your past bad runs.

Whenever mindark tinkers with the loot to make returns more predictable and make our money lasting longer , complains raising and activity drop. While people WANT that big swings, they say they won't and ask for more stable returns. Mindark is being stuck between a rock and a hard place here. The root of all those problems is their inability to give their loots markup other than alternating the rarety of some loots. Nobody wants a stable 95% return if you know you can't recoup that lost 5% because there is no markup on your loots.

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If you make high swings, then people won't invest as much as into BP grinding or BP QR increases, so they buy less materials, less material being used results in material MU decrease.

I'm pretty certain people who aim for MU sales prefer stable returns while gamblers prefer high swings...
They could even kinda make it work for both kind of players.
Crafting: Full quantity stable returns while it moves towards high swings the more you go towards condition.
Mining: unamped stable returns while it moves more towards high swings the bigger the amp gets.
Hunting: low maturity stable returns while moves more towards high swings the bigger the maturity gets.

You won't need (very) high MU if you get stable high returns

Near success never go above ~50-55%, More success's give 2-4 X success rate value, but it isn't very exciting is it..?

Seeing all those Near misses at 50% is a bit heart breaking really..

I could take a couple of runs with no globs, then have a nice run and hit, or get 10-40 Pedders, but this seems like being screwed again.

" Come and craft and see some very stable returns and not many globals " isn't much of an advertisement.

We dont need VERY high MU,that is right, but current MU on hunting loots dont cover those 5% what we lose (best case scenario 5%).
Hunters actualy are in worst position ATM.
Cheep mats for crafters, some MU on some components and ArMatrix weaps.
Cheep amps for miners and some MU on some mats.
Hunters.... if u dont have an unlimited weapon u are fukt up big time coz prices on L weapons are insane (i dont blame crafters,used to craft Armatrix myself and that MU is more or less real, it is not crafters greed what pushes prices up). Even if u have UL weapon u are fukt up coz here is very limited amount of mobs what drops SOMETHING with MU.
Lets say one hunter buys 3 armatrix rifles for 160-180% makes one weekend grind around 10h, shoots 10k peds in ammo with those rifles,and what he can show for those 10h/10k peds? Shrapnel and maybe 1k peds in mats with 110% and he is lucky to get those 95% tt back. Very encouraging...
EU is very complicated ecosystem,MU on one thing affect other,drop rate on one thing can affect entire market. One activity leads to one other.
As long as this ecosystem will be monitored by "probably" good coders,by gamers in heart,by marketing gurus nothing will change,all those experiments with loot will lead us nowhere.
MA needs to employ ppl who understand basic of economic and maybe some psychologists as well,they are so out of synchronicity with game they run. When did some MA employee asked himself " why ppl play this game? what keeps them to deposit? why they stop depo?"

Crig said:

We dont need VERY high MU,that is right, but current MU on hunting loots dont cover those 5% what we lose (best case scenario 5%).
Hunters actualy are in worst position ATM.

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5% loss, that's cute, last amp crafts it was about 40-50% loss (was before current crafting test, on full quantity).... there's a good reason those 110% MU hunting materials do now go into the TT again instead of my crafting terminal

Crafting sucks, I always lose my damn shirt...

I used to craft Disco armor thinking I could probably make a little bit of money on it, until I did the math and figured out a set sometimes cost me over 160% to craft. Nobody will pay that much for an armor set that is exactly the same as Jaguar which can be bought from auction for around 108-116%.

Stealth, another craftable armor from RT, is exactly the same as Martial. It's impossible for a crafter to make money on Stealth armor, you just can't compete with the lootable armor prices.

So just realize next time you see someone with Disco or Stealth that in order for that armor to exist, someone flushed their peds down the toilet.

Legends said:

Crafting sucks, I always lose my damn shirt...

I used to craft Disco armor thinking I could probably make a little bit of money on it, until I did the math and figured out a set sometimes cost me over 160% to craft. Nobody will pay that much for an armor set that is exactly the same as Jaguar which can be bought from auction for around 108-116%.

Stealth, another craftable armor from RT, is exactly the same as Martial. It's impossible for a crafter to make money on Stealth armor, you just can't compete with the lootable armor prices.

So just realize next time you see someone with Disco or Stealth that in order for that armor to exist, someone flushed their peds down the toilet.

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Just a thought regarding all these planet specific items , seeing as we have avatar bound items , why couldn’t they also be planet bound so you can’t use other planet items , would have the planet partners in competition with each other and also stimulate each planets economy , I was thinking this when mining , I still don’t know why lyst needs to be on a planet that has drugs and alcohol ores/matts

Again just pondering

K_rupT said:

Just a thought regarding all these planet specific items , seeing as we have avatar bound items , why couldn’t they also be planet bound so you can’t use other planet items , would have the planet partners in competition with each other and also stimulate each planets economy , I was thinking this when mining , I still don’t know why lyst needs to be on a planet that has drugs and alcohol ores/matts

Again just pondering

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That wouldn't work:
1) example: WW BPs use arkadia/rocktropia-specific items to make
2) planets with smaller population can no longer tap into bigger planets markets, due to this the PPs will have significantly more TT-food, because looting/crafting far more items that can be sold on the planet. It would be bad for the economy.

Alukat123 said:

That wouldn't work:
1) example: WW BPs use arkadia/rocktropia-specific items to make
2) planets with smaller population can no longer tap into bigger planets markets, due to this the PPs will have significantly more TT-food, because looting/crafting far more items that can be sold on the planet. It would be bad for the economy.

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Awwwww but awwwwww , I am keep pipedreaming lol

Since the beggining of Feb i find myself in the mood not to play anymore...hunting has more swings that used to have for me (best run this month was 101% and the rest were between 75-80% ..and 90% of my runs were bad) and i'm using the most eco setup i've ever used. Crafting is so nice that i stopped crafting.
So i don't know where the hell MA comes out with this "stable" shit but they made the game so stable for me that i barely play anymore as before i would play 5-6 hours/day so....keep up the good work MA !!!

Elmurfud said:

So i don't know where the hell MA comes out with this "stable" shit but they made the game so stable for me that i barely play anymore....

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So this begs the question, if every single click of the crafting machine, every single bomb dropped, every single loot event resulted in exactly 95% return would anyone play?

K_rupT said:

Just a thought regarding all these planet specific items , seeing as we have avatar bound items , why couldn’t they also be planet bound so you can’t use other planet items , would have the planet partners in competition with each other and also stimulate each planets economy , I was thinking this when mining , I still don’t know why lyst needs to be on a planet that has drugs and alcohol ores/matts

Again just pondering

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Hub already has this, sort of.

thoreau said:

So this begs the question, if every single click of the crafting machine, every single bomb dropped, every single loot event resulted in exactly 95% return would anyone play?

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Well, you know, they could go for something like a rather stable 90-93% and the remaining 2-5% getting added to the lootpool for globals/hofs, that certainly would make more people play than the currenty constantly lose 20-30% and pray that you get those very big multiplier(s)....

Sure, we may kinda be back at loot 1.0's returns, but it's just better than the loot 2.0+ return-system...

So they " Stabilized " hunting, which made it worse.. And now they do the same with the crafting..

Does EX PROJ IV serve any other purpose, but to gamble? It doesn't add anything useful to the game like crafters of armor, or clothes, or attachments?

Yes it is great to drive up the hunting loot return MU's by making these things rarer, but where are you gonna get the gear from to hunt with?
If crafters can't afford to craft the items for the sale price, because they have to pay the new MU's, and are then gonna get shafted by the " New " system, then why bother?

I have noticed better success values, but aren't success's based on MU's of the crafted item? Has that been changed then? So if we are getting the usual 30%ish success I have seen a few people talk about on this forum, then the decrease in Near success is definitely screwing us over, isn't it?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If someone could explain that to me please, if I have a logic there or am way off. Thanks.

ntelinatsos said:

more skills to unlock, that's cool

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Wasn't it so that you needed level 10000 perception to unlock Looter? .)

Cartoon Spoon said:

Does EX PROJ IV serve any other purpose, but to gamble?

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Yes it keeps the servers running while gamblers lose peds...even though you see all the HOFs and globals, don't be fooled, there is alot of loss going on straight to MA's pockets.
Also just incase you haven't read it elsewhere, EP IV is not considered crafting, that is gambling pure and simple.

Cartoon Spoon said:

I have noticed better success values, but aren't success's based on MU's of the crafted item? Has that been changed then? So if we are getting the usual 30%ish success I have seen a few people talk about on this forum, then the decrease in Near success is definitely screwing us over, isn't it?

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First you didn't need to bold and underline this part. Second, where did you hear that success's are based on MU of a crafted item? Whoever told you that has no clue and you should prob not listen to them anymore when it comes to crafting. What MA have tried to do with stabilize crafting is to make near success return a more average amount which will allow for some of the rarer ingredients to be returned back as well (using the condition slider will be important for that). So before you would get anywhere from 10%-90% of your TT value returned to you each click and there was not really a defined % amount that you could calculate accurately (you could get close). Now it seems like they are trying more of a 40-60% returned to you each click on a near success and have increased the amount of success's to make it more stable as well landing you at around the 30-35% success rate. Before it was anywhere between 20-40% success.

I have noticed though that crafting has been changing a bit during the testing period...it seems like they are trying different amounts and % to see how each one goes....which makes sense but also makes it very volatile to craft right now as your run the next day could have vastly different results.

Having a more stable near success rate and a stable success rate has a benefit to crafters. You can then workout to a pretty good degree if crafting an item will yield profits or not. You will also be able to get back some more of those heavy MU ingredients where currently you pretty much lose them. Crafters don't craft to lose ped, they craft to be able to sell items at profit. We need a higher success rate plain and simple. If we have that, then there will be more crafters.

Mining
Overall volatility will be reduced during the testing period, by increasing the size of the smallest possible claims.


Don't know when this was testing or not but doing 10 amp-5 yesterday, got some good return 90-110% TT without any globs the worst amp return 221 peds on 299 costing.
Got like 32-33% found drop on ark with lots of double or triple founds (Just count the first 5 amp and got 156 found / 495 so 31.7%)


Today doing the same 10 amp-5 But it was totally different got 25-27% found got lots of V and VI, (doesn"t have a single V Yesterday). Average return was like 210 peds. Best one was 330 return with a 97 peds glob... (first 5 amp : 141 /495 so 28.5% with smallest average found ...)

So yeah they probably trying to see how to change it.

In reality it's EZ JUST PUT IT BACK LIKE BEFORE 2.0

https://ibb.co/d28qSn What a Shitty amp

All my last week mining runs, unamped was near even. maybe small profit, if i calculate all details. I only lost peds, if i had to kill some creatures on my mining way. Especial, if you get a claim, and then a ninja spawn around you hapen.

Bertha Bot said:

Looter Professions
Continuing with the improvements implemented in Loot 2.0, our design team is finalizing the details of an exciting new group of professions focused on specialized hunting loot acquisition. Three new professions will be added: Animal Looter, Mutant Looter and Robot Looter, along with several associated new skills (including unique unlockable skills for each profession). We expect the new professions to be implemented during the spring.

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Interesting.
Forget DPP, DPS, avatar skills, experience, efficiency, Loot 2.0 formula, expensive gear, etc.
You want to have 90% return?
No problem.
Be efficient.
Hire an skilled Looter or be it yourself with all hidden unlocks and skills as it need.
And don't forget to buy keys to open loot content.

Bright side - there is no player Looter.
Pirates will be screwed and pvp 4 miners finally free as pkers will not have skills to loot them.

Dan59 said:

Interesting.
Forget DPP, DPS, avatar skills, experience, efficiency, Loot 2.0 formula, expensive gear, etc.
You want to have 90% return?
No problem.
Be efficient.
Hire an skilled Looter or be it yourself with all hidden unlocks and skills as it need.
And don't forget to buy keys to open loot content.

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Actually if it turns out to be that, and you're probably not far from the truth. I'm done.

Rick

Bertha Bot said:

The current plan is to refine and test these improvements over the next 10-14 days and implement them in a patch soon thereafter.

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3 weeks later and still the test didn't end?

ntelinatsos said:

3 weeks later and still the test didn't end?

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Test may have ended, but "in an upcoming patch"
that's MA speak for "never" or "within the next year.. maybe"

ntelinatsos said:

3 weeks later and still the test didn't end?

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The testing never ends. It's still Project Entropia.

Well...

It seems to me the " Increased Success Values " rate has dropped a lot, but we still have the " not more than 50% " near success. In fact near success seems to have been dropped a few percent as well.

Which basically means to me, that they introduced a not more than 50% rate for near misses by stealth or something.