Suggestion: New FREE Graphic Engine made by Amazon (derived from CryEngine) + A deep collaboration with Amazon

Hi Friends


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UPDATE , september 2021 :

In the original version of this Thread, I suggested that Amazon's Lumberyard graphic engine, a free Graphic Engine, could have been an interesting option for MindArk, considering that another massive multiplayer quality-game like Star Citizen had chosen the Amazon's Lumberyard graphic engine.

I think that MindArk, in 2021, rejected the Lumberyard-option because they don't want to be tied to Amazon choices and policies on this matter.
For example, if Amazon decide at some point to quit with Lumberyard, that would be a problem for Lumberyard customers.

Lumberyard is a quality free engine but, after all, it's a tricky option , not fully reliable.



The last release of the Unreal Engine is considered impressive : probably the best engine in the world.
It's not a free engine (anyway, the fact that Mindark chose that engine, confirms MindArk's current financial solidity) , but I would say that this is a much more reliable choice.


If MindArk manage well the transition, EU will reach an unprecedented success.


End of the UPDATE
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But, moreover, then I suggest MindArk to build a deep collaboration with this Internet Colossus , Amazon, and its Experts, who might directly collaborate with MindArk's Development Team (with supposed friendly costs, or more likely "for Free", considering the economic returns for Amazon) to implement a NEW in-game platform within Entropia Universe to buy Real World Items :
not a new idea, but this time a serious attempt "powered by Amazon", ranging from Game Memorabilia to many other Real World Item categories just to imagine and explore.

For example, including obviously all sort of Gaming gear, from Gaming seats to Joysticks, Gaming Computers, Graphic Cards, etc , possibly -why not- also in limited Special Editions with the logo "Entropia Universe Edition" printed on them : in this case i would just say "Let Amazon do the dirty job"; they are the #1 experts in this field, and their advices and contribution to MindArk's efforts would generate awesome outcomes.

All those Real World Items then would be directly delivered by "the Internet Colossus" : Amazon itself .



You can just imagine what enormous consequences all this would have on the size of the existing economy of Entropia Universe, along with NEW amazing economic and creative opportunities for MindArk and the Players.



The Idea is sent, Let's wait and See


Paul

Haha, yet another one of these posts.

RobBuona said:

Haha, yet another one of these posts.

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What is wrong with the playerbase SUPPORTING this initiative? You people really need this. MA would benefit. The players would benefit. The Planet Partners would benefit. Space residents would benefit. Everyone can win. Don't be an entrenched failure. Go WITH the flow and make EU great again!

this + blockchain + VR

Free software usually needs a lot of work and knowledge to make it work right, that's not our case

I really like the idea of developing a partnership with Amazon, and this seems a fairly straightforward way to begin that effort. The potential there is huge...

Imagine...
- Searching an Amazon NPC ingame and purchasing real life items with PED.
- Looting coupons for Amazon products which could be sold ingame for PED (pure markup in loot).
- Advertising screens ingame used to broadcast Amazon ads which could yield revenue to be added to the bonus loot pool (an old idea that never transpired for the purpose of better returns).
- Amazon affiliate program could be integrated ingame to offer distributions in the form of PED, giving people an alternative to sweating/fruit walking as a means of earning revenue.
- Etc... The possibilities are endless with Amazon.

Aloisius said:

What is wrong with the playerbase SUPPORTING this initiative? You people really need this. MA would benefit. The players would benefit. The Planet Partners would benefit. Space residents would benefit. Everyone can win. Don't be an entrenched failure. Go WITH the flow and make EU great again!

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I assure you, players would not benefit. When CryEngine was implemented, it took 5 years for all systems to be fully working again. Five. Years. You know that, right? And I can almost guarantee if they switched again, some things would never return. Be careful what you wish for...

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch...
maybe read the fine print under which conditions it is free..
Really see no need for a new engine, this one is fine.
Would even assume that 3/4 of the playerbase do not even run it in high details.
And MA has not even used half of the possibilities of the engine..which is reasonable from an economic stanpoint because most users would not even be able to use it anyway.
New engine would not attract new players.

And there is also the thingy with the costs...who would pay for the conversion ?
I am not willing to pay for something that does not give me more loot but rather less

Captain Jack said:

I really like the idea of developing a partnership with Amazon, and this seems a fairly straightforward way to begin that effort. The potential there is huge...

Imagine...
- Searching an Amazon NPC ingame and purchasing real life items with PED.
- Looting coupons for Amazon products which could be sold ingame for PED (pure markup in loot).
- Advertising screens ingame used to broadcast Amazon ads which could yield revenue to be added to the bonus loot pool (an old idea that never transpired for the purpose of better returns).
- Amazon affiliate program could be integrated ingame to offer distributions in the form of PED, giving people an alternative to sweating/fruit walking as a means of earning revenue.
- Etc...

The possibilities are endless with Amazon.

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Truly fascinating

I can imagine the MindArk Development Team and Amazon Experts creating new business opportunities like the ones you have described above, then implementing them together

UPDATE , september 2021 :

In the original version of this Thread, I suggested that Amazon's Lumberyard graphic engine, a free Graphic Engine, could have been an interesting option for MindArk, considering that another massive multiplayer quality-game like Star Citizen had chosen the Amazon's Lumberyard graphic engine.

I think that MindArk rejected the Amazon's Lumberyard-graphic engine, because they don't want to be tied to Amazon's choices and policies on this matter. For example, if Amazon decide at some point to quit with Lumberyard, that would be a problem for Lumberyard customers.

Considering this, Lumberyard is a quality, free engine but -after all- it's a tricky option , not fully reliable.



The last release of the Unreal Engine is considered impressive : probably the best engine in the world. And it has been chosen by MindArk .
It's not a free engine (anyway this choice again confirms MindArk's current financial solidity), but I would say that this is a much more reliable choice.


If MindArk manage well the transition, EU will reach an unprecedented success.


Paul

If they do something like this and introduce it so that you get paid in peds (or bonus loot, etc.) for ad dollars for the in game amazon ads you see, etc. as they did in ancient days, with the massive ad thing (which some privacy clause still says exists in game? (even though Microsoft killed off Massive many years ago after they bought the thing from Massive itself and Massive went out of business in 2010 or so??!?)),with option to turn it off if or on, on will get you extra income (as it did back when the massive thing worked in game), off won't, perhaps... (yes, Mcdonalds ads used to be in game on the ad screens you see in malls, etc. and also in personal ad terminal that shows same content)

http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/privacypolicy.xml

Collaboration with other third parties

The Entropia Universe incorporates technology of Massive Incorporated ("Massive") that enables certain In-World objects (e.g. advertising) to be temporarily uploaded to your pc or console and replaced In-World while connected online. As part of that process, no personally identifiable information about you is collected and only select non-personally identifiable information is temporarily logged. No logged information is used to determine any personally identifiable information about you. For full details follow this link.

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and of course "follow this link" above doesn't actually contain a link, lol.

Hell, if they go this route they could even make the deep token deal work with it somehow... you pay for extra ads for other participants to see and that extra income goes to the deep token holders by 50% and the other 50% goes towards the player that ends up seeing your in game ad? (please make that payout in ped instead of with 'enhanced loot since there's no way to know if the loot actually gets enhanced, and no way of knowing if the old system enhanced it either as 'double shrapnel' wasn't something that existed yet back then)

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At least they did update the website at the url http://www.planetcalypso.com/guides/business-trade/advertising/ by deleting it... a couple of years ago it explained how it used to work by stating:

Real World Advertising
You will also see real world advertising on Planet Calypso provided by Massive Incorporated. An option is included in the Client Loader to enable or disable these ads. However, enabling the ads allows access to higher loots. When you disable ads in the Client Loader you disable both colonist created ads and real world ads.

All the ads can be viewed on the Ad Display Boards located in all the major outposts on Calypso.

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(can't remember it that is what "this link" above went to or if it was something else

also, as mentioned in another forum recently...

Crytek could sue Mindark if they leave Cryengine...

Crytek sues Star Citizen studios over use of CryEngine (update: Crytek responds)

As mentioned in the post directly above, Mindark couldn't even change one or two lines of the privacy policy to reflect that the Massive app isn't in game any more... what makes you think coders can fix the speghetti code to remove any mention of Cryengine that would allow Crytek to sue them too if they move off of CE2?

It would be cool if MA would be able to keep up with the engine updates. Let's get real, they aren't.

Speaking about other MMO's there is a difference but the interesting thing is how many cutting-edge MMO's are using either plain vanilla CryEngine or some modified version of it. Difference comes in with newer versions of the engine and the content itself.
You can find some pretty amazing FPS singleplayer games (with or without multiplayer option) but that's apples and oranges. If we're in the "comparing business", have to compare MMO's with MMO's.

I think some areas in this game look pretty cool. Other areas not so cool, but you only need one example to prove it can be done.
Now, if we're not even using the existing features in our current engine version, what good would the engine switch do? We don't have enough quality content designers now and won't have them with a different engine either...

Besides, EU's worst problem isn't that we don't have enough eye candy tropical beach sunsets. Our biggest problem is the gameplay--not enough entertaining content... and the vast majority of the player base agrees with me.

Speaking about eye candy made using the vanilla CryEngine, here's the latest example. If you can think of something that can be done to make it even more realistic, let me know.

They can't even get buff stacking right.... let's not give them any ideas. The game honestly feels like they have two developers now.

mastermesh said:

the in game amazon ads you see, etc.

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I see enough damn ads IRL, don't bring these into the game as well.

for those who forgot, wha tis possible with the current engine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpTRbXgU4co

until we reach that quality and most people actually use it.....
its a waste of electorns to talk about a change
Besides...
WHO IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT ?
I am defiantely not willing to give up on 30% of my return rate just to have something implemented, that does not boost that return rate (and after over 10 years in Entropia, I simply do not fall for that "it will bring new players" argument any more).

It takes a special mindset to play here, some special people and most of the world...well ...they rather are into pokemons and farmville

WoenK said:

It takes a special mindset to play here, some special people and most of the world...well ...they rather are into pokemons and farmville

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This is an important point.

It might well be that EU's target audience is not 'gamers' either.

.

Being a "partner" with Amazon isn't what you might think. The deal is always much better for Amazon than it is for the other party. Most of the publishers I know and work with either don't use Amazon at all, or do so very reluctantly while hating them with a passion. They don't make any money on Amazon sales.

Oleg said:

Being a "partner" with Amazon isn't what you might think.
The deal is always much better for Amazon than it is for the other party.
Most of the publishers I know and work with either don't use Amazon at all, or do so very reluctantly while hating them with a passion. They don't make any money on Amazon sales.

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Oleg, reading this one might think that Amazon's client companies are a bit like exploited "slaves".


Amazon requires a % fee on the price of any item sold through its platform.
The % fee varies according to different item categories : https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200336920/

I see that the average % fee, for the Real-World-Item categories of interest in Entropia Universe, will be generally around 6%-15% .



Summary of the current situation : some years ago MindArk tried to attract as many Real-World-Item vendors as possible inside Entropia Universe, but since MindArk was/is a small rising company, currently too far from the dimension and critical mass of a big company like Amazon (a true worldwide Colossus with thousands of Companies that sell their products via the Amazon platform), the experiment wasn't a great success.

At the moment any Real-World-Item trading is absent from the Game.



The new scenario described in this thread :

MindArk contacts Amazon and offers them an interesting Collaboration/Partnership : Amazon will advertise and sell many products, from thousands of Real-World-Item Companies, within Entropia Universe and -as a fair reward- MindArk will get a part of the Amazon % fee.
Surely the ideal situation for MindArk would be a good 50% of the Amazon % fee: just MindArk will have to negotiate with Amazon, and find the best possible agreement (if not 50% , then as close as possible to 50%).
To reach a percentage as high as possible, MindArk will let Amazon advertise inside Entropia Universe :

and I repeat, for those who weren't playing Entropia Universe "in the old times", that is not a new thing for Entropia Universe, it has been already tried years ago, just on a much smaller scale and with small success, since -as already observed- MindArk hasn't the critical mass to attract thousands of Real-World-Item vendors.

Amazon has the critical mass and a Worldwide Famous Brand. I used the term "Colossus" not by chance.



Side Note : if MindArk decides to SERIOUSLY sell Game Memorabilia to players (meaning with the terms "Game Memorabilia", mostly 3D printed models of in-game mobs, avatars, vehicles, items ; and, in general, other Real-World-Item categories strictly related to Entropia Universe), for this very peculiar Real-World-Item class, it would be a good thing to negotiate with Amazon a super-friendly fee, or just to sell them outside the Amazon-platform , in order to maximise the profit .



Finally, let's add to all this fascinating scenario the further business opportunities already described by Captain Jack and I in the 1st page of this thread : https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-with-Amazon&p=3632729&viewfull=1#post3632729




Enjoy


Paul

If MA realy change the engine, then i think they would use Unreal Engine, and no longer CRY engine stuff. I know, that they like Unreal engine.

But there is no reason to change the engine yet. But possible we will see new things, like instances, made with an other Engine (UE4).

bigPaul said:

Oleg, reading this one might think that Amazon's client companies are a bit like exploited "slaves".

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No, that description would be more suited to their employees.

If you want to know how Amazon operate, I would suggest you do some wider research than merely quoting something from their own website.

Oleg said:

No, that description would be more suited to their employees.

If you want to know how Amazon operate, I would suggest you do some wider research than merely quoting something from their own website.

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Ok, just I guess that if MindArk and Amazon explore the possibility of a collaboration/partnership to sell Real World items inside the game Entropia Universe, fully owned by MindArk, then they will have both to agree on conditions that are "enough" convenient for both parts, not just for the bigger Company (Amazon).

Otherwise no deal.

you have misread the project deeptoken the goal of MA will never change its graphics engine (besides they still have graphic designers?), they prefer to make the transfer of funds in a utopia of a virtual bank VR

trance said:

If MA realy change the engine, then i think they would use Unreal Engine, and no longer CRY engine stuff. I know, that they like Unreal engine.

But there is no reason to change the engine yet. But possible we will see new things, like instances, made with an other Engine (UE4).

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I highly doubt I will see an engine change before my firstborn goes to school (and I do not yet have a firstborn)...so if really Uneral Engine, it will rather be Version 6-7.
And I even doubt that...even if the current engine is not "up to date" it's potential has not even been scratched by MA.
Years ago "Can it run Crysis" was a serious statement and today the absolute mayority can still not run it fluently at 1080p.
Most people are not willing to pay 500EU for graphics card, anything above 50 is too much for them.
I do not update very often, still got my 380 AMD and now and then I switch to very high settings, runs fine, but most of the time hte fans are annoying. Yeah, if the fans were not annoying and if I had a 4K TV and if a graphics card existed, that was affordable and if the textures were high quality..then I would switch to something better and would wish for something better...but only if I would not have to pay for it

bigPaul said:

Ok, just I guess that if MindArk and Amazon explore the possibility of a collaboration/partnership to sell Real World items inside the game Entropia Universe, fully owned by MindArk, then they will have both to agree on conditions that are "enough" convenient for both parts, not just for the bigger Company (Amazon).

Otherwise no deal.

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You steeply overestimate how interested other companies are in Entropia - especially American ones. I would be surprised if anyone at Amazon even knows Entropia exists.

Look, I get your point, but there are so many things broken in EU. The game engine is not broken and thus, to even consider the game engine at this point is a bit silly.

RobBuona said:

You steeply overestimate how interested other companies are in Entropia - especially American ones.
I would be surprised if anyone at Amazon even knows Entropia exists.

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Probably You are right

Another realistic possibility is that if Amazon "starts to know well " any of the existing Real-Cash-Economy games -no matter which one- and the amazing opportunities that Real-Cash-Economy Gaming offers (as seen in this thread), I wouldn't be surprised if one day Amazon enters heavily this business, maybe buying one of these already existing RCE games then turning it into an enormous Amazon's own virtual "Universe".


If so, Which already existing Real-Cash-Economy game will be "the Chosen one" by Amazon ?


Only time will tell...


Paul

bigPaul said:

Ok, just I guess that if MindArk and Amazon explore the possibility of a collaboration/partnership to sell Real World items inside the game Entropia Universe, fully owned by MindArk, then they will have both to agree on conditions that are "enough" convenient for both parts, not just for the bigger Company (Amazon).

Otherwise no deal.

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And that's precisely the point - Amazon don't work like that. Their business model is "here's the deal, and if you don't like it then fuck off".

Amazon's power in the online marketplace is such that they have no need for negotiation. It might be different with other very major players (Apple and Microsoft, for example), but not for anyone smaller. My understanding, from my experience in book publishing, is that even the major global publishing houses like Random House have to accept the same deal as independent publishers do.

bigPaul said:

Probably You are right

Another realistic possibility is that if Amazon "starts to know well " any of the existing Real-Cash-Economy games -no matter which one- and the amazing opportunities that Real-Cash-Economy Gaming offers (as seen in this thread), I wouldn't be surprised if one day Amazon enters heavily this business, maybe buying one of these already existing RCE games then turning it into an enormous Amazon's own virtual "Universe".


If so, Which already existing Real-Cash-Economy game will be "the Chosen one" by Amazon ?


Only time will tell...


Paul

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absolutely none, because EU is borderline gambling and Amazon does not do gambling..besides, microtransactiona in MMOs bring in way more money.

Oleg said:

And that's precisely the point - Amazon don't work like that.
Their business model is "here's the deal, and if you don't like it then fuck off".

Amazon's power in the online marketplace is such that they have no need for negotiation.
It might be different with other very major players (Apple and Microsoft, for example), but not for anyone smaller.

My understanding, from my experience in book publishing, is that even the major global publishing houses like Random House have to accept the same deal as independent publishers do.

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Thanks for this account of your experience; it would be nice if one day Amazon's managers read comments like this one, and decide to soften "just a little bit" their approach


Anyway I hope that MindArk tests the "Amazon option" just to see the response/outcome;
in the worst case there is also Ebay as alternative to be tested.
( UPDATE : and, obviously, there are also other big similar companies, other than Amazon or Ebay)


In any case, all worth a try