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Trending Easter Mayhem Conclusions

Naomi

Naomi

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Naomi NP Polder
Hi, from what I read and heard the last few days in game, and on this forum, the following findings come back all the time:

- MA cannot please everyone, there is no 'perfect' category for everyones weapon
No problem, that's part of the game :)


- Cat 10 will be over-saturated as the parameters are right now
Please re-balance to make this event a success.
 for instance:

cat1cat2cat3cat4cat5cat6cat7cat8cat9cat10
prof. cap<3030+45+60+75+90+105+120+135+150+
max HP150175200225250275300325350UNL
max b-dps2838485868788898108UNL

Does this table feel more realistic? Please comment !

prof. cap: jumps of 15
hp cap: jumps of 25
b-dps : jumps of 10

Of course you are free to join a higher category at any time!

- I think to understand why MA has added the weapon profession cap. Because evader/dodger levels are clearly an advantage in a Solo Defense. However the current set parameters are unbalanced, dps vs attack profession.
Please re-balance to more reasonable

- The event changed from Solo & FFA to Defense & Offence
Interesting idea, adding a Defense, but both Def. and Off. are Solo Cats.
MA will miss out income from FFA. Maybe we can have FFA as well? And.. didn't we use to have a team category?


Even though I agree that a lvl 105 hunter (cat10), should not participate in category 1-5, in accordance with his current setup and activity, it is IMPOSSIBLE to compete with the cat10 hunters (lvl 180-225) in game, and he should therefore be able to join a category more corresponding to his DPS.



<DISCLAIMER>
Of course I wish a good category for myself as many would. I have however, not suggested the table above according to my personal wishes, but to provide better possibilities for everyone in game. I would for instance fall into category 9 (hit lvl 137, hp 304), which is not ideal for me personally. As said, feel free to make suggestions.
I know that a lvl30 hunter most likely won't be 150hp yet, the hp limit is for motivational purposes as well.
 
With your suggestion your are putting like 90% of the population in the first 5 categories all cluttered together. How is that fair for "everyone" as you say?

The current distribution is not perfect, but fixing it the high level players and passing the problem onto everybody else kinda sucks, imho.

You know very well why MA doesn't want to make more categories past level 100. I'll give you a couple of clues: "gear borrowing", "alt accounts".

No hard feelings please, just debating.
 
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I agree that borrowing and alt accounts is an issue, and I have suggested solutions in the past, such as item locking before you can use it, with a minimum lock time of 1 month or longer.

But I think you might underestimate how many 100+ hunters there actually are. And how few lower to mid lvl accounts work their hardest to win events, and tend to do an occasional hunt in the event for fun only.

Unfortunately, since we have no accurate data about this, it is left to speculation.
 
Mrs 2.0 said:
Unfortunately, since we have no accurate data about this, it is left to speculation.
Click to expand...

True, but if someone has the data it must be MindArk.

The last event was adjusted slightly not long before it started, and honestly it was a bit unfair in my opinion since a lot of people had already purchased gear and chipped skills in/out.

I also don't like the idea of giving equal gear and stats to everyone (like the BatSim does) because then what's the point of investing in your avatar at all?

It's impossible to please everyone, but I think people are overreacting a bit because the way you acquire points seems to be very random. Maybe your category is not as relevant as people think and the problem is not wanting to face specific avatars, in which case we should start by defining what a competition is in the first place because I suspect it's not supposed to be easy... right?

Well end of my brain fart, I apologize for the almost-relevant offtopic.

Try to have fun is all.
 
Indeed Mindark should have the data, and it is up to them to balance accordingly.

Some people, like myself, had prepared for a mayhem based on the settings of the last one. Since everything changed, that was not a good idea.
However I think 2 weeks notice prior to the event is not long enough to prepare. So big changes to an event, just 2 weeks in advance, doesn't leave much room to prepare. Especially if it renders your current setup useless and you would need to require to purchase barely available top-gear.

You're right, the Mayhem events should not be like BatSim at all.
Progress and upgrades is what EU-events are about.

Angel O2 Mercer said:
Maybe your category is not as relevant as people think and the problem is not wanting to face specific avatars, in which case we should start by defining what a competition is in the first place because I suspect it's not supposed to be easy... right?
Click to expand...

Category would be less important indeed, if there would be 1 prize pool for all categories, and it is time or points-based.
However there are prizes for each category.

Because of that, it matters a lot if the category you are FORCED into because of the combat profession limit, is so unequally over-saturated, with people ranging from lvl 105 to 220+, with health from 270 to 450+, that competing is actually useless.

1 - CHOOSING a category based on your dps-weapon (= financial means) seems more fair. Especially to avatars with good but not top10-gear, who have achieved a high profession due to long-time activity, but not to compete to EU's few event-top players.

2 - In EU it used to be that, lvl100+ = the top of the game, but that is no longer the case with lvl 200+ avatars.
It seems quite unbalanced to have only categories among the lower spectrum of the professions.

Anyways, I still hope for a fun and well-balanced event :)
 
Mrs 2.0 said:
- The event changed from Solo & FFA to Defense & Offence
Interesting idea, adding a Defense, but both Def. and Off. are Solo Cats.
MA will miss out income from FFA. Maybe we can have FFA as well? And.. didn't we use to have a team category?
Click to expand...

Robot Mayhem always was a solo Mayhem, as it was in Halloween Mayhem too.
Team Cat was in Merry Mayhem only b4 they decided to make a FFA out of it with looting FFA Star's instead of counting killpoints.
So even this "Team Cat" isnt a Team mayhem anymore.

And no i dont like the Idea of changing the cat as players want.
 
Mrs 2.0 said:
I agree that borrowing and alt accounts is an issue, and I have suggested solutions in the past, such as item locking before you can use it, with a minimum lock time of 1 month or longer.

But I think you might underestimate how many 100+ hunters there actually are. And how few lower to mid lvl accounts work their hardest to win events, and tend to do an occasional hunt in the event for fun only.

Unfortunately, since we have no accurate data about this, it is left to speculation.
Click to expand...

My opinion is..
as a hunter on any lvl it costs more then enough to play actively..
As a mid lvl player you could stack up some L weapons & armor etc at a cost.. say 10k ped.
As a lvl 100+ player.. you NEED L, & it is insane to even get close to the top ul toys..(not only in cost but in actually finding those items..)

On the other hand those ppl (who use the top UL) invested..
so I'd say split up the pot
75% of prices to an ul item cat & 25% to an instance where everyone has the same toys at the same cost...
You'll get a happy playerbase & more revenue for sure..
 
Screw the bots. Lets have all tameable mega easter bunnies in there. ?
 
Mrs 2.0 said:
[/B] for instance:

cat1cat2cat3cat4cat5cat6cat7cat8cat9cat10
prof. cap<3030+45+60+75+90+105+120+135+150+
max HP150175200225250275300325350UNL
max b-dps2838485868788898108UNL

Does this table feel more realistic? Please comment !
Click to expand...

Agree, shuold have been something like suggested above.
 
das said:
My opinion is..
as a hunter on any lvl it costs more then enough to play actively..
As a mid lvl player you could stack up some L weapons & armor etc at a cost.. say 10k ped.
As a lvl 100+ player.. you NEED L, & it is insane to even get close to the top ul toys..(not only in cost but in actually finding those items..)

On the other hand those ppl (who use the top UL) invested..
so I'd say split up the pot
75% of prices to an ul item cat & 25% to an instance where everyone has the same toys at the same cost...
You'll get a happy playerbase & more revenue for sure..
Click to expand...

I agree with and like this idea.....I see no reason why MA should limit the event to one type of style or instance. The reason I stopped participating wasnt because I didnt win anything, but that it was determined by how much money a person could spend, which is fine but I wont do that so I dont :)
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
With your suggestion your are putting like 90% of the population in the first 5 categories all cluttered together. How is that fair for "everyone" as you say?

The current distribution is not perfect, but fixing it the high level players and passing the problem onto everybody else kinda sucks, imho.

You know very well why MA doesn't want to make more categories past level 100. I'll give you a couple of clues: "gear borrowing", "alt accounts".

No hard feelings please, just debating.
Click to expand...

I think O2 hits on the major point many people with time in game are missing. There are far more lower end active players who play now than the handful of 100+ who are actually still active.

The current split probably reflects the overall player base as a whole better. (3700+ unique hunters monthly on EL still.... even all of the 80+ people in one group is a small % of that)

And lets be honest, That handful of the top 100+ prof players are the most expensive reward category MA has to deal with. I think even they realize now that catering to this group at the expense of the so many below them is a bad move in the long run. Since many of those lower players just see impossible odds when the best rewards go mostly to the same gear at 100+ prof mayhem levels.

Really silly when you consider a 150k+ ped gear setup fully enhanced/pilled out cannot even place in Mayhem at that level. There are a couple guns that can be traded back and forth to secure the top spots pretty easy, and without half the cost.

MA would be making more money if lower end players actually could be profitable with mayhem token wins, that ubers would have to collect from, and pay markup for, in order to use the best gear for their level.

Then when you see the same group of people spamming sales for the best gear year after year, lower players might think they had a part in it......instead of feeling like they paid for the gain of the uber few yet again.

I kinda like that more tokens will probably go to more lesser skilled people overall, people who can use markups and start saving for good things and skills (that ubers inevitably sell from time to time) later in their career.

My 2 cents anyhow
 
A resolution would be allow access to all categories but only allow those fitting within the parameters to compete in that category.

90% of the playerbase of those that enter these instances know they do not stand any real chance of competing , but still enter to get a taste of it.

Myself , I hunt considerably below my ability to actually kill , and find this an enjoyable play style.
 
Your categories work for me. Nice!
 
forgo said:
MA would be making more money if lower end players actually could be profitable with mayhem token wins, that ubers would have to collect from, and pay markup for, in order to use the best gear for their level.
Click to expand...
I thought we already had that (FFA). What happened? Some influential minority not happy?
 
would work perfectly for me
 
Level and dps categories work for me but the hp soft caps are way too low. Those of us that skill melee and other professions for hp should not be punished
 
Tbh this won’t work for me , I’ll get in different categories because different caps so or I’ll need Chip in hp or to chip out from best prof standing or competing in a lower category with a lower gun than I can use . So I’ll be between 4 different categories in this type of proposal. The fact that I skilled pistol and rifle natural at same level I cannot consider as a mistake .
To be more precise I’ll sit as hp cap at cat 3 , prof cap at 4 , and as max dps at 6 so what should I do ? For me the proposal that MA made work perfect for me.
 
Chris Enzo said:
Agree, shuold have been something like suggested above.
Click to expand...

Tiny Lord said:
"Trending" huh? Tell me, whats your highest profession and what gun you using ;)?
Click to expand...
If you would actually have read the OP, you'd have half of your answer already :)

Spawn said:
Your categories work for me. Nice!
Click to expand...

Ron Kovich said:
would work perfectly for me
Click to expand...

Hijacker27 said:
Level and dps categories work for me but the hp soft caps are way too low.
Click to expand...

Thx for agreeing! I really hope MA will at least re-balance the categories.
 
Mrs 2.0 said:
Please re-balance to make this event a success.
Click to expand...

So what gear are you planning to use that your suggestion will fit perfectly for you?

Mrs 2.0 said:
for instance:

cat1cat2cat3cat4cat5cat6cat7cat8cat9cat10
prof. cap<3030+45+60+75+90+105+120+135+150+
max HP150175200225250275300325350UNL
max b-dps2838485868788898108UNL

Does this table feel more realistic? Please comment !

prof. cap: jumps of 15
hp cap: jumps of 25
b-dps : jumps of 10

Of course you are free to join a higher category at any time!
Click to expand...

If watching on you list I dont see how it should work. Just check the M83 Predator UL.
SIB starts: 70
maxed: 74 (cat 4- cat 5)
base dps: 85 (cat 7)

Unless you are aiming for competitive (L) (that are earlier maxed, specially looking on the new mayhem ones and would be competitive even with lets say tier 5) vs. lower level UL (tier 10) it doesnt fit.

Tbh on MM I thought that the new MM guns should be the key to place in top 10. Grinding for them in FFA to get good times in solo after that. Also MA should maybe drop tier tokens for (L) guns that can be traded but make the (L) guns bound if you use a token on them. Finding a competitive (L) gun with good tiers is mostly impossible atm unless you craft them yourself or some close friends of you.
 
Still the thing that you said with higher hp cap it’s motivational it’s really funny , to balance my skill with dps an hp I should chip in at least around 30 hp , which is not cheap , and @ 10 lvl in prof which will automatically increase my b.dps . Something motivational I can propose 15 categories with only the first 3 places are with prizes. Give your best don’t aim for 4th place . Aim for first like in any other competition.
 
Skorp said:
So what gear are you planning to use that your suggestion will fit perfectly for you?
Click to expand...
If you would have read the OP, you would know that the suggested categories are not perfect for me, both profession- and gear-wise. For now I will not participate either under the current parameters.
Perfect conditions for myself would be, profession 138, dps 101.5 and hp 305. My suggestions are nowhere near that. Please stop attacking me personally while I'm trying to prevent the event from becoming a failure for all higher mid-class players.


Skorp said:
If watching on you list I dont see how it should work. Just check the M83 Predator UL.
SIB starts: 70
maxed: 74 (cat 4- cat 5)
base dps: 85 (cat 7)

Unless you are aiming for competitive (L) (that are earlier maxed, specially looking on the new mayhem ones and would be competitive even with lets say tier 5) vs. lower level UL (tier 10) it doesnt fit.

Tbh on MM I thought that the new MM guns should be the key to place in top 10. Grinding for them in FFA to get good times in solo after that. Also MA should maybe drop tier tokens for (L) guns that can be traded but make the (L) guns bound if you use a token on them. Finding a competitive (L) gun with good tiers is mostly impossible atm unless you craft them yourself or some close friends of you.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying my suggestion of categories is perfect. Neither did I claim to have checked every weapon.
The main thing is to NOT make lvl100+ avatars having to compete with lvl180+ avatars, which you would know if you had followed the discussions the last few days in the mayhem preview thread and the Category Poll 2018 Easter.
However the parameters as stated in the Mayhem Preview make sure a very large part of the event-active player-base will not join, and therefore make the event unsuccessful. That is why a re-balance of the categories would help the event for more activity.

Yes, the Mayhem events are interesting to get the new Mayhem guns indeed. So it would be good if more of us can participate.
 
Dont work for me because people is cheating and bring me down in spots
 
Well thx for the neg rep, whatever it was for.

Mrs 2.0 said:
If you would have read the OP, you would know ...
Click to expand...
...what profession you have, but I didnt saw any info about the gear you plan to use, thats why I have asked (in a rude way it seems ^^)

Mrs 2.0 said:
I'm not saying my suggestion of categories is perfect. Neither did I claim to have checked every weapon.
Click to expand...

Thats why I pointed you out to one SIB gun which doesnt fit by a lot and mostly every SIB gun wont fit as well.
And by Mayhem guns I meant the (L) ones not the one fromt the token trader. As the imp, perf (L) ones need 5+ lvls. less to max out then the crafted/looted (L) ones with same base dps.

For example the BP-70 perfected (L) [A&P Series Mayhem BP-70 Perfected (L)]
SIB: lvl. 60
base dps: 99.1

compared to ArMatrix BP-60 (L)
SIB: lvl. 60
dps: 85

compared to ArMatrix BP-80 (L)
SIB: lvl. 80
dps: 98.6

So the max. b-dps need to look something like that IF not even higher taking the Mayhem perfected (L) guns in to account. And like already suggested from others in other threads a gear lock for events.

cat1cat2cat3cat4cat5cat6cat7cat8cat9cat10
prof. cap<3030+45+60+75+90+105+120+135+150+
max HP150175200225250275300325350UNL
max b-dps4055708595105115125135UNL

Edit:
I would even go that far and saying that max. b-dps should be the max possible with the perfected (L) guns, but sadly we have non sib guns which would destroy the idea behing it.
 
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the main thing is, you should be able to chose category depeing on your gear sence MA wont release more than 10x of every item. This will result in only 10x ppl will have the best gear and always win every event. If they released more armors faps and weapons there would be much more of a challange.
 
looking at the cats, i would be cat 4 by half a point (highest is 60.5), my HP is a little under the cap, but my base DPS is way above at 77 with LC55, songkra is just out too (62.4)

but that said, i'd be happy with this, as even at 60.5 i have effectively on par with anyone in that cat
 
I still stand by my original assessment that the cats they came up are fine. The 2 biggest things I see needing to be changed are:

1. Cats 2 - 9 should have no professional limit. Anyone should be able to participate in the cat that best suits their budget rather than their skill set. Keep a noob level restricted to low level players but open everything else up.

2. They should implement a system where people are allowed to play in any one of the cats as much as they want during the event but by a certain deadline they must select (via NPC) which cat they want to submit their result/score for. This way people can test their luck across multiple cats and submit what they feel is their best effort by comparing all runs across cats.


Yes, you can't please everyone for sure. Players with the biggest wallets want an unfair advantage for their investment in their avatar. Players with low bank rolls want an even playing field. Each has a perfect justification for their reasoning and round and round the world goes.

Thing with Entropia is - competitions are pay to win and always will be until they implement an even playing ground like the batsim where people participate in instances with the exact same gear to a point where the only difference is the raw skill of the player.

Perhaps breaking future events into 3 sub-events would make more sense to appease all:
  • A Pay To Win style event (traditional EU event)
  • A Pure Skill style event (like batsim with defined gear but instead of random damage have hit placement affect damage delt)
  • A Random Winner style event where players earn points randomly per kill and at the end of the event a draw takes place to give out prizes where each point counts as an entry. That way even the person with 1 kill point has a chance to win (even if VERY small) and just throwing money at it isn't a guaranteed way to win.
 
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Angel O2 Mercer said:
With your suggestion your are putting like 90% of the population in the first 5 categories all cluttered together. How is that fair for "everyone" as you say?

The current distribution is not perfect, but fixing it the high level players and passing the problem onto everybody else kinda sucks, imho.

You know very well why MA doesn't want to make more categories past level 100. I'll give you a couple of clues: "gear borrowing", "alt accounts".

No hard feelings please, just debating.
Click to expand...


Considering that a very active hunter could get to level 100 in around a year, with no chipping and not many missions, it means that "like 90% of the population" that are ~30-65 are not active at all. Why should player that are those levels have a span of 7 categories in an event? Why encourage inactivity? This game is almost 15 years old, you'd be surprised how many avatars are over level 100.

Skilling should have some advantages as well, not only disadvantages for the future events. I notice no one wants to do the skilling thingy these days and refer to the category 100+ a category that needs heavy punishment :laugh:
I think Naomi's proposal only makes sense with the gear available @ that dps, unlike the current level caps which don't make much sense.
 
Evey said:
Considering that a very active hunter could get to level 100 in around a year, with no chipping and not many missions, it means that "like 90% of the population" that are ~30-65 are not active at all. Why should player that are those levels have a span of 7 categories in an event? Why encourage inactivity? This game is almost 15 years old, you'd be surprised how many avatars are over level 100.

Skilling should have some advantages as well, not only disadvantages for the future events. I notice no one wants to do the skilling thingy these days and refer to the category 100+ a category that needs heavy punishment :laugh:
I think Naomi's proposal only makes sense with the gear available @ that dps, unlike the current level caps which don't make much sense.
Click to expand...

You draw strange conclusions.
I am level 66.. Been here since 2004. My hunting global count on entropialife stretches 5 and a half page from 15 january till now. Yours is only one page. "not active at all" .... really?
I am level 66 knife, but also level 65 laser pistoleer, and level 64 blp pistoleer and level 63 laser sniper and level 62 blp sniper and level 61 swordsman and level 58 brawler and level 56 clubber etc etc etc. Some people in here just like to do all that is possible to do.
 
Hitting 100 with in a year or so would take a 6 digit bankroll and likely a playtime of 12-16hrs a day. Out of reach of most of the population. At lvl 60 with 100% skill pill I can gain about 3-4% an hour..

But I do agree skills should have greater rewards instead of just allowing you to spend faster
 
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