Do looting professions affect loot returns?

Xanato Xan Kaso

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Pretty straight forward. Do higher looting professions/skills affect returns or is it just a scorekeeper for those uber crazy hunters killing 10k mobs every day. (Sarcasm)

But seriously, does it affect our loot return in any manner and if so, by how much, and how?
 
i havent noticed a difference so far. and my guess is that IF there is any impact at all most likely it will be that low that its basically impossible to prove due to variance. MA could just say the difference is 2% and there is no way to prove or disprove it
 
i havent noticed a difference so far. and my guess is that IF there is any impact at all most likely it will be that low that its basically impossible to prove due to variance. MA could just say the difference is 2% and there is no way to prove or disprove it

Yes. My personal assumption is that it might be aimed at +-1.5% from a balance point somewhere, which MA will shift/nerf as more people get skilled.
As for proof, it may not be that every loot event carries the percentage. It could be a set of IF/THEN channels incorporating multis or extra shrap or whatever.

But if the percentage is on every loot I'd expect the curve to look slightly shifted, even if multis mess up absolute loot totals comparisons. Without noting every loot for a speadsheet the only way I see might show a diff after a few k mobs or so is noting down all multis and excluding them to see how close the 'crap loot' figure is to about 50% or so...
Does anybody track that already 'for fun' (cough) ;)?
 
Yes. My personal assumption is that it might be aimed at +-1.5% from a balance point somewhere, which MA will shift/nerf as more people get skilled.
As for proof, it may not be that every loot event carries the percentage. It could be a set of IF/THEN channels incorporating multis or extra shrap or whatever.

But if the percentage is on every loot I'd expect the curve to look slightly shifted, even if multis mess up absolute loot totals comparisons. Without noting every loot for a speadsheet the only way I see might show a diff after a few k mobs or so is noting down all multis and excluding them to see how close the 'crap loot' figure is to about 50% or so...
Does anybody track that already 'for fun' (cough) ;)?

well the problem is that in a normal non multi loot we got a variance of around 70%. seeing a difference of +-1.5% is impossible. you would need to kill a gazillion mobs to nullify the effect of the normal variance and you need to remove any multiplied loot as well (or note it seperately) at 70% variance 1k kills is not enough. 10k neither. 100k may get close but a million would be better to get a reliable average. and you need to do it twice, so 2 million mobs. 1 million with chipped out looter profession / new avatar and 1 million with high looter profession. and of course you need to chip out the looter skills every few hundred kills so it doesnt affect your data.
id say its basically impossible.
 
It's nigh impossible to set up an experiment with all other variables controlled, hence I doubt anyone will be able to answer this anytime soon.

(tinfoil hat mode) MA should have said it will start to affect returns "in a future VU", so that people rush to acquire skills before that.
 
So no one knows what the new professions really do or how they affect hunting loot. Got it!!:laugh::laugh:

It sounds like it would be a very good idea for MA to actually explain this in this thread or a whole new one. I just noticed my hunting loot drop alot this last week but I am still ruling out other possible causes like the Easter Mayhem and a few other things. If it can be caused by the adjustment of the new looter professions, it would be appreciated if MA (who does read the forums and should be reading this posting) could answer these questions:

What's up with the loot now with the addition of the new professions and new skills in game? What should we be expecting from their addition to the game? What are the pro and cons with them affecting hunting specifically?

Remember, all of EU is watching you and your response here....:eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:....:)
 
The study can be done, but it will require collaboration between different avatars with different looter levels, using the same gear setup...


I can set up the experiment if other people provide legs for running the testing and gathering data if people are interested.
 
The study can be done, but it will require collaboration between different avatars with different looter levels, using the same gear setup...


I can set up the experiment if other people provide legs for running the testing and gathering data if people are interested.

that test would take years. even when im using the exact same setup on the exact same mob and maturity over more than 100k kills i still have a variance of +-5% on individual "runs" (so 2 times 100k kill runs)

to have a proper test you would need to have the same people with the exact same skill count but only different looter skills with the exact same setup and the lower one would need to chip out his looter skills every few kills so that t here is no influx of it.

next thing is that due to the variance and the very rare bigger multis you would need to either:
a: kill at least 10 million mobs each to dimish the variance, and even then when hitting a few 1kx+ multiplier would screw ur data

or b: note down every single kill with the exact loot (down to the least millipec on shrapnel) and delete every data that is above the kill cost (so every multiplier) and then around 10k kills each may suffice.

as the impact might be as low as 1% it would literally take years to gather enough data to distinguish the impact of the looter profession from variance. its veeery close to impossible to keep the other variables at the same over the course of the whole test. which might be what MA wants. people skill again in hope for a higher tt return, even though its basically unprovable if theres any impact at all.
 
This was asked and answered in the VU thread.

Loot Professions

Added a new looter profession (under the Resource Gathering category) for each of the tribe of enemies - Animal, Robot and Mutant, along with related skill (default and hidden).
Loot profession skills can be gained when looting defeated enemies.
An avatar´s relevant loot profession will improve actual loot returns as it increases.


I have confirmed with the dev team that the loot profession only affects loot returns (as stated in the release notes), not loot composition.
 
Maybe the loot skill affects the type of loot you get, like in mining where ur not likely to find rare ores with low skills.
So the probability of finding rare and UL items get higher with the skill, it may also affect the TT value on (L) items!?
 
This was asked and answered in the VU thread.

Loot Professions

Added a new looter profession (under the Resource Gathering category) for each of the tribe of enemies - Animal, Robot and Mutant, along with related skill (default and hidden).
Loot profession skills can be gained when looting defeated enemies.
An avatar´s relevant loot profession will improve actual loot returns as it increases.

they also said that there will be space cargo missions or a link between compet and EU or tons of different stuff they said. they also the success rate in crafting is 95%, which is not true either. i dont believe anything MA says, unless it can be proven.
 
Maybe the loot skill affects the type of loot you get, like in mining where ur not likely to find rare ores with low skills.
So the probability of finding rare and UL items get higher with the skill, it may also affect the TT value on (L) items!?

the skills in mining dont affect what you find. the one and only thing that affects what you can find is the depth of ur finder. if you got 800m depth you find the same. no matter if you are lvl 10 prospector or level 200.
 
that test would take years.

Uh no, I assure you this test can be done in a month or two once it is organized.

Just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it can't be done...
 
Uh no, I assure you this test can be done in a month or two once it is organized.

Just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it can't be done...

then please elaborate on how you would do it. i already explained to you how it has to be done but id like to see your point of view. cos in the last tests you have done there were some major flaws... but please feel free to show me that you have thought this through
 
This was asked and answered in the VU thread.

Loot Professions

Added a new looter profession (under the Resource Gathering category) for each of the tribe of enemies - Animal, Robot and Mutant, along with related skill (default and hidden).
Loot profession skills can be gained when looting defeated enemies.
An avatar´s relevant loot profession will improve actual loot returns as it increases.

That means, loot is Default shit (mostly Shrapnel) and will be better with improving of Lootprofession? :scratch2:
 
suggestion

would it help to send out 3 ppl, one with looter0, one with looter20, one with looter40
all with an equal weapon that all max.
shoot in team on some big hp mob like proteron and checking loot results?
 
then please elaborate on how you would do it. i already explained to you how it has to be done but id like to see your point of view. cos in the last tests you have done there were some major flaws... but please feel free to show me that you have thought this through

I've already spent a good amount of energy to try to convince you before, but I think it will be hard to convince you no matter how hard I try. Perhaps you can state what your criticisms are with my previous study and then I can answer them specifically.
 
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That means, loot is Default shit (mostly Shrapnel) and will be better with improving of Lootprofession? :scratch2:

I thought it was stated that it was tt value not loot composition....so you would still get shitty shrapnel....do correct me if I am wrong though!
 
Does it really matter how much? If it's 10% or 1% your behavior won't really change. It's pretty simple to me. If you're in team let the person with the higher loot profession loot. It's not like your going to stop hunting solo, or never hunt without a skilled looter. Just pick the right person to loot.

Efficiency seems to get this better quality loot. I've found I get items and decent loot when I pile on the attachments and I do the looting when I hunt with my slightly lower skilled wife.

It's been confirmed by devs that lotter skill effects quantity and efficient effects quantity. Do just do what you can to bump both of those up.
At least in team u you both get the litter skills when looted so your not losing our really.
 
dont believe anyone will get 100% tt return now, so lets say with around 90% eff i estimate to get like 96-97% tt return and those professions should add more like 1-2%
 
Yes, I too had the impression that this was a "loot quality" effect.

If so, good luck sorting that out. Is there any usable news on loot quality yet anyways? I've noticed it's simple enough that if you're way over geared you can expect a load of shrapnel, and "dialing it down" to the mob a bit obviously helps.

But for mobs large enough that I care, the same old rules of thumb seem to apply. Not too much overprotection (this does actually seem to matter) and at least 12 - 15 shots per kill you will still see the occasional non-oil loots.

So I would expect with a higher looter profession you could still wear enough armor to forget healing and maybe something like 10 - 12 shots per mob getting you a similar loot composition to what I was just describing above.

The quote from MA does seem to imply that there's a loot quantity effect but it's not explicit and leaves the door open either way so, once again, yoda would probably be easier to interpret than whoever writes this stuff for MA.

In order to find an answer like "each 10 levels in Looter provides a 3% increase to looting efficiency which then gets added to the overall values for the kill (whatever MA is already considering) and increases your chances of looting a non-shrapnel stack by .5% and chances of receiving an item by .01% to .03% dynamically." we would need so much info that as far as I know (admittedly I'm not really active) no one who is willing to share data is getting nailed down.

So anyways< there's always a bit of BS going back and forth here about theories and methodologies, but even as a pretty casual player I'm very interested in this please keep sharing.
 
I've already spent a good amount of energy to try to convince you before, but I think it will be hard to convince you no matter how hard I try. Perhaps you can state what your criticisms are with my previous study and then I can answer them specifically.

so you are basically saying that you have no idea on how to test it? cos you havent tried a single time to convince me to something that i told you just today. if you would have any kind of argument you woudl post it but as you havent you could just shut up when you dont know what ya talking about.
ive given you enough info to show you that you are wrong. and you havent given a single piece of info to prove me wrong. but whatever dude. stay in your bubble.
 
dont believe anyone will get 100% tt return now, so lets say with around 90% eff i estimate to get like 96-97% tt return and those professions should add more like 1-2%

I think that the 1-2% depends on the lvl you are as looter profession. If you’re lvl 10 won’t do too much, if you are lvl 100 for sure , or might increase more . I think it’s made give courage to those who grind daily.
 
would it help to send out 3 ppl, one with looter0, one with looter20, one with looter40
all with an equal weapon that all max.
shoot in team on some big hp mob like proteron and checking loot results?

i guess it wouldn't, because team and solo mechanisms may turn it out different. when you can't say how a single avatar affects loot, how can you even do for a whole diverse team of avatars? it could even depend partially on the one actually looting the mob...
 
I have confirmed with the dev team that the loot profession only affects loot returns (as stated in the release notes), not loot composition.

Just to help keep the conversation in tune.

Whether it is to be believed, that is up to us to test.

I have level 21 animal and some... lower level robot because I hate bots. I'm happy to help with a test, as always. I'll even do bots....
 
Just to help keep the conversation in tune.

Whether it is to be believed, that is up to us to test.

I have level 21 animal and some... lower level robot because I hate bots. I'm happy to help with a test, as always. I'll even do bots....

Yikes completely the opposite of what I thought then.

Someone get us a thread on MA has decided that more active players/harder grinders do actually DESERVE better loot QUANTITY ?

On the bright side, that should make it a lot easier to quantify :laugh:

Seriously though. Now my occasionally playing gummy bearing self can just walk right up to 2 same mobs with same setup and a grinder buddy, and she just expects to get a higher percent return from using the same 10/10 weapon and number of shots as me?

This is obviously not going to stop me from playing iver the near term but basically, as someone who considers themselves a crafter forced into constantly hunting, MA can 1-2% suck my dick on this one.

Stilll (of course even more) interested in hard numbers and volunteering some time and maybe some PED to help test on this if someone gets an organized thing together with a clear point. Thread Jhereg?
 
so you are basically saying that you have no idea on how to test it? cos you havent tried a single time to convince me to something that i told you just today. if you would have any kind of argument you woudl post it but as you havent you could just shut up when you dont know what ya talking about.
ive given you enough info to show you that you are wrong. and you havent given a single piece of info to prove me wrong. but whatever dude. stay in your bubble.

Please point me to the criticism so I can respond.
 
Yikes completely the opposite of what I thought then.

Someone get us a thread on MA has decided that more active players/harder grinders do actually DESERVE better loot QUANTITY ?

On the bright side, that should make it a lot easier to quantify :laugh:

Seriously though. Now my occasionally playing gummy bearing self can just walk right up to 2 same mobs with same setup and a grinder buddy, and she just expects to get a higher percent return from using the same 10/10 weapon and number of shots as me?

This is obviously not going to stop me from playing iver the near term but basically, as someone who considers themselves a crafter forced into constantly hunting, MA can 1-2% suck my dick on this one.

Stilll (of course even more) interested in hard numbers and volunteering some time and maybe some PED to help test on this if someone gets an organized thing together with a clear point. Thread Jhereg?

I've got some deadlines today, but I'll try and spend a couple hours to put a thread together this weekend.
 
Bro..... you totally have more important things to do :laugh:
 
I've got some deadlines today, but I'll try and spend a couple hours to put a thread together this weekend.

ok I'm no high roller but I'll feed a statistical pool for a bit.

I was sort of asking about the conversation you've refererred to in your other posts because I seriously though this was a "loot quality" perk for grinders and so wasn't that concerned, which has led me to ignore the other threads on the topic since by the time I was gone for a week they ll seem pretty cluttered with drama and "skill stealing".

Which I hope MA isn't doing. All they have to do is say the skills currently being received are or aren't taken from the hunter's points and it's done.

All this is adding up to something pretty heinous though and maybe it will be "my last straw" if that isn't cleared up soon since the signs all together is ominous, and if they were to announce the opposite it will close the door on many things, and seal the deal on a sort of system that I won't participate in.

At least, not for "entertainment".

Imagine an EU where any unexpected interaction with another avatar is taboo.

Where "Don't Heal Me" is a stickied thread in the noob section with 100 pages of posts of people's stories about how they didn't know or accidentally healed another avatar hunting near their team and got bawled out for it.

Where nobody will kill dry mobs or hunt near a sweater or a sweat circle.

Where accidentally sinking even a single round accidentally into "someone else's" mob has immediate skilling and/or directly financial repercussions.

This together with the CRM techniques being built into the loot engine is all adding up to a very personal funnel. The absolute nightmare of a "personal loot pool" that follows you around all professions and becomes "dynamic" based solely on how much that CRM algorithm says you're likely to take based on a weighted balance of your 30 days, 7 days, and one days activities and the "excitement" or "involvement" factor of your current activity.

Together with a social setting that discourages teamwork or many of the player to player interactions that lead to casual conversation or new people just randomly "meeting each other" and/or "helping out".

It's a little derailment I may post another thread with my thoughts on this matter as well. This sort of social and behavioral analysis is relatively trivial right now and being endlessly refined.

All the signs here just keep pointing to a very bad thing. This is true without the skill stealing issue. That's just the padlock on the gate, if it's announced to be actual fact.
 
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