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  1. #31
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    The big question on my side is: Are you playing for fun? For profit? Or a mixture where different things you do are clearly seen as either profitable or just doing it for the heck of it with another goal in mind then PED?
    Those are a few important questions. As if you're doing it mostly for the fun and expect to loose out while not playing overly eco in every case, loosing out for long periods of time is definitely ok, and even expected, the same mentality I share whenever I go and hunt something just for completing a mission instead of MU. I sometimes want to simply have fun as well, and I expect my fun to come at a cost, just reasonable.
    The list of reasons why i play EU is much longer than only fun and ped. EU is my trainer to get and stay keen and focused, i got to know people in about 20 timeszones worldwide, call many of them my friends, skilled my english and leanred a lot about economy and about myself. EU is my learning platform about risk-analysis and positioning myself, my alternative old age life insurance... and much more

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DiXeCZ View Post
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    And now imagine that you take all the time spent by whining here and do some ingame loot composition research instead
    What gives you right to bitch about someone who is pointing to issues with the game especially when he is right. You didn't even answer to simply question about your "profit" from previous post which could be kinda funny reveal.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parlog View Post
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    The list of reasons why i play EU is much longer than only fun and ped. EU is my trainer to get and stay keen and focused, i got to know people in about 20 timeszones worldwide, call many of them my friends, skilled my english and leanred a lot about economy and about myself. EU is my learning platform about risk-analysis and positioning myself, my alternative old age life insurance... and much more
    Yeah, and I can absolutely understand that, it's one of the base reasons why people stay in the game despite it turning into a simple mainstream cash-grab instead of the great niche game which was able to run into a long-term profitable venue for both MA and players who did it right.

    But given your reasons to stay: Eve Online offers the exact same things, more modern, more option, less money needed to actively play, far more active community.
    The only thing it isn't is an 'old age insurance' which sadly Entropia isn't anymore either. I invested quite a bit into it as well, and now it risks to loose my investment made for a good reason back then.
    As an old player yes, you'll stay for those things you've already achieved here, in-game and social, as well as from a knowledge perspective. But why would a new player take the effort to built this up without any sort of reward right now?

    Outdated things:
    The only official chat channel is rookie, all others are player made in some way, it needs to be split into a Global chat, a helping chat and the respective trading chats, with proper mechanics for each like showing what you sell while you're online when clicking on a person. Auctions and shop-pads are there to sell things when you aren't online after all.
    Sweating and fruit walking is ever decreasing in return, those were f2p systems for new players to get a small start, they need to be revised.
    Loot needs to be worked back into the old system, dpp and knowledge made for profits there, now it's pure PED used personally to PED returned personally, which makes you loose in TT no matter what you do.
    Critical strikes need to be reworked again, they are now a detriment, stop the crit rings from dropping, input no more of those, main problem with the massive gap between new players and ubers solved, there needs to be still SOME gap to show the difference.
    The Pet-system wasn't ever implemented properly, the passive buffs are nice, but what about cross-play with ComPet and Arena matches with specific training for specific pets? A lot of opportunity there which is untapped.
    Space is outdated. Only a risk, never a reward unless you're a pirate, and even they have mostly a loss and rather fun at shooting people simply. Motherships were never properly implemented, as were Hangars.
    Land Areas need to be sold properly again, many promised ones were never released, those need to get into the hands of LA-owners to give more different events and reasons to hunt in those lands.
    Crafting needs to be reworked properly, meaning people need an actual reason to craft which can be profitable. Rare (L) Blueprints from all sorts of venues which give an actual incentive to use, some were implemented over time but killed by the flattened returns of hunting again, those need to drop from abysmal returning blueprints especially to give a reason to use them.
    Unlimited equipment needs to be put into perspective, rather a high (L) MU weapon with high dpp and therefore high returns, or a UL weapon with a bit worse dpp but never MU again, makes viable tactics for both venues instead of only focusing on UL right now since it's always cheaper with the existing system.

    These are just a few quick things to think about, some might not work out perfectly, but some are a foolproof thing to put life into Entropia again. Markets are dead right now, people leave in flocks and even those which stay deposit far less then I know of personally. Sure, the rare single person too dumb to realize what's going on will come, but those are well... rare.

  4. #34
    Prowler The Jetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    Outdated things:
    The only official chat channel is rookie, all others are player made in some way, it needs to be split into a Global chat, a helping chat and the respective trading chats, with proper mechanics for each like showing what you sell while you're online when clicking on a person. Auctions and shop-pads are there to sell things when you aren't online after all.
    This is a good idea, good to implement as a public profile, all your skills, recent globals, property and listings in shop/AH. plus any description you want to add
    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    Sweating and fruit walking is ever decreasing in return, those were f2p systems for new players to get a small start, they need to be revised.
    not sure how you would implement it, sweat is in more crafting bps but the price has continued to fall. the other problem is, make it too good and sweat farms will appear, killing the market for normal players. other option is ban sweating at a certain level like before
    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    Loot needs to be worked back into the old system, dpp and knowledge made for profits there, now it's pure PED used personally to PED returned personally, which makes you loose in TT no matter what you do.
    Critical strikes need to be reworked again, they are now a detriment, stop the crit rings from dropping, input no more of those, main problem with the massive gap between new players and ubers solved, there needs to be still SOME gap to show the difference.
    Loot 2.x/Loot 1.5, either way the system was stacked to take. Loot 2.x takes the same amount slower and there should be no guaranteed profit. You can still farm MU if you research your mobs, for example, Robot Weapon Grip, fairly common from troopers, 130% MU. The biggest problem is Caly screwed their loot table, the other planets have decent loot in a mixture of mobs, diluted mineral extractors are quite common on Cyrene.
    Crit is weird, its a bonus and a penalty in one. good when needing kills for ML events or grinding, but lowers the output loot a little. but ofc if you can lower the cost to kill, your losses will be less severe. it does need a rework with crits not penalised in the loot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    The Pet-system wasn't ever implemented properly, the passive buffs are nice, but what about cross-play with ComPet and Arena matches with specific training for specific pets? A lot of opportunity there which is untapped.
    Space is outdated. Only a risk, never a reward unless you're a pirate, and even they have mostly a loss and rather fun at shooting people simply.
    Agree with the pets, ive stated before, compet should be accessable directly from EU with EU peds, interchangable pets with EU pet battles (working either turn based like compet or action based like the pills)
    Space needs work, give the pirates the ability to scan ships and it would tell them any lootables you carry, they can decide if to shoot you down or not. stop players from logging out on MS as that is pretty much cheating. but most importantly, make space interesting, give it the delivery missions, iron missions, high risk mining. Currently its just an empty space and in its current state, it might as well not exist

    ADDITION
    Please add an option to list a timestamp next to the chats (like the chat log), its a pain when you have been AFK and come back to chat and have no idea if its recent
    Last edited by The Jetman; 04-16-2018 at 12:51.

  5. #35
    Elite Parlog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    But why would a new player take the effort to built this up without any sort of reward right now?
    So you want to earn before even the foundation stone is set, let alone the whole business building with 100 floors? You expect the ROI of the whole business before 1 cable is in the house, let alone computers and whatever you need to make the big company run, no workers paid, no contracts signed? There is no place in real or virtual world like this, not even in the derivative world. And EU is quite the opposite of that for sure. In fact its this kind of quick-cash-attitude that will suck your pedcard dry in no time.

    Patience, discipline, dedication, compassion even, self control, the ability to gather information and think big/longterm and make plans. This is what its all about. Oh yeah and a little bit of crazyness...

    Besides: A newbie nowadays can run around in Adj Armor with an Adj Bukins Rifle and a S10 fap within a few days and 50bucks spent, still has cash left on the card. A newbie could also invest 500bucks, buy Adj Resto, do heal services, healig himself with an unsurpassed eco, getting the above mentioned toys and with a little luck hof half of it back within a few days.A newbie could spent 5k USD on the game, buy AUDs and CLDs and will never run out of cash anymore and might have pulled the invisible ticket for a really large HoF. And some put in 50k USD, can later say they have been noob for 20min, buy ubah skills, buy topnotch items and 200 CLDs to run them and gonna hit the ATH on the next mob. So i dont see anything wrong in the todays newbie situation.

  6. #36
    Prowler The Jetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parlog View Post
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    So you want to earn before even the foundation stone is set, let alone the whole business building with 100 floors? You expect the ROI of the whole business before 1 cable is in the house, let alone computers and whatever you need to make the big company run, no workers paid, no contracts signed? There is no place in real or virtual world like this, not even in the derivative world. And EU is quite the opposite of that for sure. In fact its this kind of quick-cash-attitude that will suck your pedcard dry in no time.

    Patience, discipline, dedication, compassion even, self control, the ability to gather information and think big/longterm and make plans. This is what its all about. Oh yeah and a little bit of crazyness...

    Besides: A newbie nowadays can run around in Adj Armor with an Adj Bukins Rifle and a S10 fap within a few days and 50bucks spent, still has cash left on the card. A newbie could also invest 500bucks, buy Adj Resto, do heal services, healig himself with an unsurpassed eco, getting the above mentioned toys and with a little luck hof half of it back within a few days.A newbie could spent 5k USD on the game, buy AUDs and CLDs and will never run out of cash anymore and might have pulled the invisible ticket for a really large HoF. And some put in 50k USD, can later say they have been noob for 20min, buy ubah skills, buy topnotch items and 200 CLDs to run them and gonna hit the ATH on the next mob. So i dont see anything wrong in the todays newbie situation.
    they definitely have moved well on the new player experience. i remember when i started all you got as a orange/yellow jumpsuit and a cap. no punies, vehicles, SiB guns just lots of dying over and over. sweat farms were a blood bath. still more to be done tho, from talking to new players, it seems the tutorial goes so far and then stops, players are then confused about certain aspects and lack direction

    also if you give a reward to new players, people will abuse it with alts. passing all the ped to their main

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Jetman View Post
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    not sure how you would implement it, sweat is in more crafting bps but the price has continued to fall. the other problem is, make it too good and sweat farms will appear, killing the market for normal players. other option is ban sweating at a certain level like before

    Loot 2.x/Loot 1.5, either way the system was stacked to take. Loot 2.x takes the same amount slower and there should be no guaranteed profit. You can still farm MU if you research your mobs, for example, Robot Weapon Grip, fairly common from troopers, 130% MU. The biggest problem is Caly screwed their loot table, the other planets have decent loot in a mixture of mobs, diluted mineral extractors are quite common on Cyrene.
    Crit is weird, its a bonus and a penalty in one. good when needing kills for ML events or grinding, but lowers the output loot a little. but ofc if you can lower the cost to kill, your losses will be less severe. it does need a rework with crits not penalised in the loot
    For the implementation of sweat: diminishing returns the more you skill up instead of the other way around, your VSE 'wearing down' slowly, but not in a very important manner. 1% per skill level, with 1% return at lvl 100 is an option.

    As for loot 2.0:
    No, it's not the same return, and why shouldn't I have a guaranteed MU return of more then 100% if my equipment costs 20k dollar, I've invested research and effort as well as time into skilling to lvl 100, I don't overkill, use the absolutely best of the best ways to dwindle my output of PED as compared to a random player sitting at lvl 20 and derping ahead instead of actually looking at the game mechanics? I Should be rewarded then, he should be penalized then, simple as that, not more, not less.
    Also, right now the mob I hunt offers 1 1500%MU item, several colors over 120%, 1 'common' 110% MU items, 2 103-4% MU items as well as a few 101 which are rare (besides the damn oil residue). STILL, I can't make a profit for the love of it, impossible, and I am extremely eco, using exactly the right amount of armor to counteract needing to heal without running full life, the gun doesn't overkill, it's properly amped for the health pool and efficiency and lower maturities get at most a single hit in if I don't miss, higher ones 3-4. Perfect killing range for a mob. Still not even a shrivel of profit despite all those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parlog View Post
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    So you want to earn before even the foundation stone is set, let alone the whole business building with 100 floors? You expect the ROI of the whole business before 1 cable is in the house, let alone computers and whatever you need to make the big company run, no workers paid, no contracts signed? There is no place in real or virtual world like this, not even in the derivative world. And EU is quite the opposite of that for sure. In fact its this kind of quick-cash-attitude that will suck your pedcard dry in no time.

    Patience, discipline, dedication, compassion even, self control, the ability to gather information and think big/longterm and make plans. This is what its all about. Oh yeah and a little bit of crazyness...

    Besides: A newbie nowadays can run around in Adj Armor with an Adj Bukins Rifle and a S10 fap within a few days and 50bucks spent, still has cash left on the card. A newbie could also invest 500bucks, buy Adj Resto, do heal services, healig himself with an unsurpassed eco, getting the above mentioned toys and with a little luck hof half of it back within a few days.A newbie could spent 5k USD on the game, buy AUDs and CLDs and will never run out of cash anymore and might have pulled the invisible ticket for a really large HoF. And some put in 50k USD, can later say they have been noob for 20min, buy ubah skills, buy topnotch items and 200 CLDs to run them and gonna hit the ATH on the next mob. So i dont see anything wrong in the todays newbie situation.
    To your first paragraph: I never said that, you suggest it. What I mean with my saying is that a newbie only sees that he'll loose at higher levels as well, with even those people coming from there having often turned down from hunting 1000 hp mobs to 80 hp mobs since 2.0. That's a problem, no incentive there. Simple as that.
    Sure, he needs to put effort into it, fruit walking, sweating, turning a slim profit from those measly returns with trading, hunting the right mobs to lower costs or even return 2 ped/hour with it from specific ones. That's the game usually, not what we have now. Rocktropia had those wolves nobody was hunting, they don't do damage, have overly much hp for their level and have dropped exactly enough to sell the materials for a 2 ped/hour MU rate, downside, 10 of them weren't even letting you skill as well as 1 Carabok on Arkadia, so it is a very very very long haul, but doable. Not anymore.

    Those virtues you're describing are great, but as soon as you actually work in getting those under the hood with Entropia under the CURRENT system you realize they are worth nothing anymore. Diligence... for what? Why do I need to reach lvl 100 if I only gamble for short-term wins instead of long-term profit? I'm not speaking about 'getting a HoF' or 'ATH', I'm speaking about examples which were possible WITHOUT A GLOBAL, at all, period, they were just the icing on the top, extra bonus, nice things at the end. In 1.0, give someone a good constellation of equipment, show em a place to hunt which is profitable while telling them exactly what to do and they could see immediately how it turns out at least a small amount of surplus. Then tell them 'the world is full of those places, you just have to find them first, and milk them good without saturating the market' and they went off with a huge smile. Some never found those other places, trying year after year, but they knew it existed, keeping them inside the game while they had fun. Others found it and got big in some way, turning over sometimes thousands of PED per month because they weren't contested in their field.
    Let's look now. Who makes a profit? Was it over the last year or a simple ATH with luck? I'm not here to purely gamble, I can do that in a casino. There WERE chances present BEFORE, there AREN'T NOW. That's what I'm speaking about, not some blind notion 300 whining noobs have brought towards you. I'm talking about meaningful changes for the system where everyone profits long-term, well, everyone sane since I don't see people not wanting to learn or put effort into something while wanting to profit as 'sane' per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jetman View Post
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    they definitely have moved well on the new player experience. i remember when i started all you got as a orange/yellow jumpsuit and a cap. no punies, vehicles, SiB guns just lots of dying over and over. sweat farms were a blood bath. still more to be done tho, from talking to new players, it seems the tutorial goes so far and then stops, players are then confused about certain aspects and lack direction

    also if you give a reward to new players, people will abuse it with alts. passing all the ped to their main
    Yeah, that's true, we went from 'MA are you stupid not to have it?' to 'MA, why the hell don't you do it right?'. It's better then before, but any gamer can immediately tell you what exactly is needed to make it better, and ways to achieve that without putting the whole market into peril from a raised input of materials. Seperate planet, seperate system for PED there, only as a training measure and people can play around with the systems as much as they like before leaving. Anyone can come back any time and try new things out, but you don't get anything for doing stuff there, it's just a sandbox for the game mechanics, nothing else. Hard to do? Nope. Why hasn't it been done? Don't ask me, maybe they just want to be lazy and let the community handle it. The initial investment for it would pay of a hundredfold over time.

  8. #38
    Prowler Captain Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    And another the literal blindness of some of the playerbase.
    I believe "figurative" is the word you are looking for here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    A long long while ago that was done purely by game knowledge, having high skills and being able to offer things to the market which are so rare and sought-after that they were expensive and wanted.
    Many tries to 'balance' the game have been undertaken since then, a new engine, breaking several gameplay systems, revamping the loot system several times in different ways, like the introduction of shrapnel and finally the switch from a randomized system which can be understood slightly with efford towards an appaling mash coming close to something which isn't discerning a lot between equipment and skills anymore.
    That's unarguably bad. If an RPG is made where the items, mobs and locations you do things are hard to be discerned in any way, then it has fundamentally failed, and the rework to 2.0 made this happen.
    Why though? Well, no matter how 'effective' my weapon, armor, fap, enhancers and so on are, it basically only changes the outcome by around 7% as MA has stated, meaning 93% aren't coming from that. So the major part of an RPG, the equipment, is being nearly useless, making a beginner the same as an end-game player basically.
    In the pre-loot 2.0 system you didn't need an in depth knowledge of the game. All you needed was level 100 laser sniper/damage and an Imk2 and you could figuratively print PEDs by hunting and getting over 100% return in the TT. Markup didn't hardly matter except to push the profits further.
    Arguably, loot 2.0 making that 7% max variance actually makes in depth knowledge of the game far more valuable, as profits are now based more on markup than they are on DPP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    So, to put together what loot changes since shrapnel did:
    Equipment got marginalized.
    Useful items were removed to get people turning over more PED.
    The drop of actually useable items got nearly turned down to 0.
    Hunting specific mobs is nearly non-important anymore.
    Personal skill plays much less of an important role now, luck and money put into the game does mostly, to a far bigger degree.
    Hunting specific mobs is more important than ever before. With no more ability to consistently make PEDs by hyper eco hunting, you MUST pick your mobs based on markup in order to generate a profit.
    When you say "useful items were removed" what exactly are you referring to? There are some old school components (advanced target assessment units, BTAUs, etc) which were removed, but they were replaced with a new blueprint series (ArMatrix) which has done a better job of improving the overall economy, as animal oils actually sell now to ArMatrix crafters consistently (whereas before they were sold basically to gamblers looking for cheap BPs to click).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    The loot system needs to be changed immediately, and the voices of loyal long-term players need to be far more weighty then some random non-depositing beginner who has seen the game for a single week.
    If you take an objective look at the threads on the forums regarding loot, you will notice several trends. "This creature didn't carry any loot", absence of markup due to looting BLP packs/weapon cells, and the exaggerated swings high and low of loot volatility were all major issues that a large number of the playerbase found frustrating for years. All three of these have been resolved over time. This is by no means a comprehensive list, but it's just a sample of examples to make the point.
    Would you mind showing me an example of a suggestion made by a "non-depositing beginner who has seen the game for a single week" which was actually implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    Don't pamper the company, make their life a living hell if they screw with you. Yes, it's a game, but damn yes, it's one which takes your money, so they have to provide an actual modern way of providing at least the most basic things.
    There is a fundamental issue here - and that is that this is not WoW or Runescape or some other subscription based game where you can just boycott for a few weeks, come back, and the game will be running as usual. This is a dynamic real cash economy. The vast majority of value ingame is in markup, which is exclusively based on the players. If the economy ingame collapsed everyone would lose significant value. You can't just boycott and then expect to come back to business as usual, it's more complex than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
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    Revamping a money system so it favors beginners more? Are you nuts? It's like stripping the people putting in the most loyality and effort into the game of their status, it's disrespectful.
    The system doesn't favor beginners more. If you go out and kill 100,000 punies with a weapon that has 60% efficiency rating, your returns will be nearly the same as if you had hunted 100,000 Warlocks with a weapon that has a 60% efficiency rating. The difference is that along the way, you would probably end up with more marketable loot (and therefor more markup) from the warlocks than the punies.

  9. #39
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    The walls of text in this thread actually indicates the real problem. The game is just too complicated. There has always been one solution and honestly I think MA is finally listening to me and slowly (which is how it needs to be) implemnting it.

    Less items. The item count in the game doesn't support the amount of players. To many different things in loot, to many different components to craft things.

    The thing I saw with loot 2.0 and why I started playing again. Is when I hunt one mob or even 3 in one spawn. I come back with 3-8 different stackable instead of the 20+ before.
    Eventually it should drop to 2-5. Then clean up crafting with news simpler BP's. Fix drop rates to match concumption., And spit out shrapnel the rest of the time and things will balance out.
    Still trying to figure this game out after 14 years.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexDameon View Post
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    The walls of text in this thread actually indicates the real problem. The game is just too complicated. There has always been one solution and honestly I think MA is finally listening to me and slowly (which is how it needs to be) implemnting it.

    Less items. The item count in the game doesn't support the amount of players. To many different things in loot, to many different components to craft things.

    The thing I saw with loot 2.0 and why I started playing again. Is when I hunt one mob or even 3 in one spawn. I come back with 3-8 different stackable instead of the 20+ before.
    Eventually it should drop to 2-5. Then clean up crafting with news simpler BP's. Fix drop rates to match concumption., And spit out shrapnel the rest of the time and things will balance out.
    Game isn't complicated, theories are too complicated...

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