PlanetCalypsoForum.com :: Entropia Universe Discussion and Resources
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 102
  1. #1
    Old
    Joined
    May 2016
    Gender | Ingame
    Male | Male
    Avatar
    Mentiol Dekarus Demex
    Posts
    63

    Unhappy Problems in EU, as well as solutions, discussion definitely wanted.

    So, I'll try to talk out a few things here, not a pure rant, but close to it sadly.

    So, what do I want to talk about specifically?
    One part would be the missing communication from MA
    Another the really bad and easily foreseeable decisions of MA like Loot 2.0 or 2.1
    And another the literal blindness of some of the playerbase.
    The absolutely misguided focus on development.

    Don't get me wrong, I have deposited quite a bit for the amount of time I've actively played this game, and for a reason, one which isn't in existing anymore in the state the game is right now sadly, therefore no future deposits until this changes.

    So, the first thing I want to speak of is the 'new' loot system MA as implemented, one which is definitely bad in a long-term prospect for the game. But why so? That's actually quite easy when understanding the Pareto principle. It's one of the fundamental principles in nature, social structures, hierarchy, economics and basically anywhere else with a few exception. 80% of things are accounted to 20% of other things, or similar uneven distributions.
    So as to talk about this in the important part for MA: roughly 20% of the players contribute 80% of the income, the so called 'whales', often people in the core playerbase.
    What does this mean? While the 'lower end' of players steadily shift with people coming and going, the upper part usually stays the same over an extended period of time, putting money in over and over again while keeping the game alive, as well as existing as a sort of 'idol' or any other term you want to use to describe them. Something for newer players to aspire towards.
    Given Entropia Universe is marketed as a 'real cash economy' game, and plainly spoken the only actual game with game systems doing so at the moment, it's obvious people need to be able to 'win' and make actual money off the system to keep repeating their actions and bring in other players since they act as a role to work towards.
    A long long while ago that was done purely by game knowledge, having high skills and being able to offer things to the market which are so rare and sought-after that they were expensive and wanted.
    Many tries to 'balance' the game have been undertaken since then, a new engine, breaking several gameplay systems, revamping the loot system several times in different ways, like the introduction of shrapnel and finally the switch from a randomized system which can be understood slightly with efford towards an appaling mash coming close to something which isn't discerning a lot between equipment and skills anymore.
    That's unarguably bad. If an RPG is made where the items, mobs and locations you do things are hard to be discerned in any way, then it has fundamentally failed, and the rework to 2.0 made this happen.
    Why though? Well, no matter how 'effective' my weapon, armor, fap, enhancers and so on are, it basically only changes the outcome by around 7% as MA has stated, meaning 93% aren't coming from that. So the major part of an RPG, the equipment, is being nearly useless, making a beginner the same as an end-game player basically.
    The same goes for skills, we don't even have a clue as to how much it influences our gameplay, and doesn't have anything to do with knowledge about the game mechanics rather then simply forcing money into the companies hands. Also, basing it purely on the amount of money spent to kill a mob gives no incentive of working out the system of how loot is distributed between players, before you had to look up the amount of people hunting at a place, the amount of people getting globals and hofs, or to find a specific mob which gives a specific item fairly often that held some sort of MU

    So, to put together what loot changes since shrapnel did:
    Equipment got marginalized.
    Useful items were removed to get people turning over more PED.
    The drop of actually useable items got nearly turned down to 0.
    Hunting specific mobs is nearly non-important anymore.
    Personal skill plays much less of an important role now, luck and money put into the game does mostly, to a far bigger degree.

    So, to the next part, communication.
    That's solely on the side of MA, a good game company is able to push out a weekly report, well written, sizeable, in depth on the work they are doing. It has gotten to be a common practice in the gaming industry for a reason, people able to see what is happening behind the scenes makes them able to put trust into a company, a trust MA direly needs with all the mistakes and con-plays they have done seemingly.
    There are basically only 2 options there at the moment: Either MA is absolutely and utterly imcompetent, which is bad, but can at least be changed, or MA is actively milking the community, which is disgusting. I give them the doubt that they are simply incompetent, bad enough but acceptable at least.
    So, what needs to be done to resolve this? First of all, the bugs in the game need to be solved before new game mechanics are introduced. The loot system needs to be changed immediately, and the voices of loyal long-term players need to be far more weighty then some random non-depositing beginner who has seen the game for a single week. The mass always makes for a nice goal, but this game isn't made for masses, it's catering to a specific playerbase, one which likes to gamble, one which likes virtual-realities and one which likes grinding. All of those have people with a lot of money inside which can literally generate at least ten times the revenue which MA is getting now.
    For that the support needs to be up to par, the involvement of MA inside the game needs to be turned up a LOT, and specific channels need to be created to cater to those people, with a better easy of access then having to join pre-created ones which are dead. A global one for socializing, one for housing and vanity stuff and one specifically to help out beginners. It's mind boggling that those simple things haven't been implemented yet, it's like there isn't a single competent game-designer in MA, or the head of MA is simply a tyrant which isn't overly knowledgeable in running a steadily changing business.

    And next the playerbase:

    That's a hard one, a very hard one. I know with a large playerbase there are definitely several ways of looking at a system. Many have fears of changing it, many want it to change steadily, both aren't being able to be combined.
    But, let's look at it from another perspective, one which is more important: Which games held out the longest, and which systems work for the longest time smoothly? It's generally one which can be understood to a degree, or where there can be a hierarchy created, with a few people at the top, coming there by working their way up either through putting effort or ressources into it, both ways are viable.
    So what I want to talk about the playerbase is: Don't pamper the company, make their life a living hell if they screw with you. Yes, it's a game, but damn yes, it's one which takes your money, so they have to provide an actual modern way of providing at least the most basic things. Economy without a calculator in-game? What? Funding new parts without even fixing the most basic things? Virtual reality without any way to use it to socialize properly? Come on now guys, that's not something which has to be pointed out, but many seem to be in denial about it in-game as well as in the forums. I don't know the specific reasons, but some of them might simply be the fear of either loosing their only place to play out their personality, or for many it can also be that quite a hefty sum is at stake. But well, both of those would make it even more important to grow some balls, get a spine, and speak up for the darn thing to work properly for many years to come instead of shriveling away steadily. Surely there are a myriad of other reasons as well, but those came to mind the quickest at least for me.
    If there is no pressure, there won't be things happening, simple as that, make pressure, more pressure, and a hefty amount extra pressure. Pull out funds worst-case, stop playing, look at the game from the side if you're unhappy with the state of it instead of steadily complaining while you're ignored completely.

    As for the wrong directions of development, last but definitely not least.

    That one is very easy to explain.
    Revamping a money system so it favors beginners more? Are you nuts? It's like stripping the people putting in the most loyality and effort into the game of their status, it's disrespectful. It was build up for years, has worked for years, and would've worked for years if managed properly. It wasn't the loot system, it's the lack of development and broken promises.
    Revamp space.
    Make sitting animations.
    Create social places.
    UL drops nearly impossible.
    L drops a bit more common so they can be sustained.
    Player knowledge in the forefront, not overregulated by hastily thrown together systems.
    Pet system expanded.
    Housing system fixed.
    Broken quests repaired.
    Land Areas finally fully implemented.
    And all those other long lasting things which were promised but never released. Screw the bullshitting with 'this got in the way', nobody beliefs you, it wasn't a thing before you invented it anyway, so fix the things people care about rather then working on a new side project nobody wants. It brings in thousands of players instead of turning away those few still playing, MA, you got your priorities very wrong, people keep telling you, you won't listen. Well, it's not the players fault the game isn't working, it's yours. Hire people who have knowledge and skills, as well as wanting to put effort into it, and then don't stifle them with concerns over how fixing things could go bad. They are broken, they can hardly get worse anymore as it's beginning to fall apart this time actually. It's a miracle the game has made it this far, it is a great base system, it has soooooo damn much potential. Use it, put effort into it, don't half-ass it anymore, don't trample on the trust of the people and instead actually deliver for a change.

    As for all of those things, I would like to hear people write out their problems and suggestions as well, in detail and without trolling. A meaningful talk for a change instead of the common 'ahh but this is that because it's always been, and it won't change'. Well, it needs to, I can speak of the position of someone coming back here, wanting to actually spend several thousand dollars this year to finally get into a proper position with having good equipment and at least keeping even with MU and playing smart, and at coming back I find that not even that's possible anymore as it's literally been removed. In a game which tells me 'come here, make money, we offer the chance to do so! Invest into it' Heck, there is nothing to invest into if there is no progress done from my money invested.

  2. #2
    Do i get you correctly, do you want them to design the game around "whales"?

  3. #3
    Chaotic Good
    Become a premium member today and enjoy enhanced PlanetCalypsoForum features!
    Mega's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Gender | Ingame
    Male | Male
    Location
    England
    Avatar
    MegaVolt
    Society
    Kaos
    Posts
    14,586
    Blog Entries
    6
    Images
    1665


    Sorry, I didn't read all of it.

    Please dont post a years worth of stuff in 1 post.

  4. #4
    Old
    Joined
    May 2016
    Gender | Ingame
    Male | Male
    Avatar
    Mentiol Dekarus Demex
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Alukat123 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Do i get you correctly, do you want them to design the game around "whales"?
    That's a given with how the game is set up. Society is set up around 'whales', those people don't stay in the uppermost region forever, new ones move up, other fall down by changing their ways or not following the times.
    Same with intellect, at one time specific thoughts will be high in regard, in other times they'll be deemed useless despite having more then good ideas, even world-changing ones.

    Designing any structure to allow uneven reward for a minority, but with the same chances to achieve those rewards for anyone is important. Not trying to flatten the curve so much it's the same for anyone no matter if they put effort and time into it, or not.
    Since Entropia is marketed as a real cash economy, people need ways to get up to the top, most staying down, that's not a decision, and it's definitely not fair, but it's an actual basic law of society, one which thrives us.
    Since it's marketed as a f2p game as well it can't only be done purely by putting in money, it also needs to have the chance to do it simply by effort, using your wits, playing the market, playing the system. So those people it markets towards will actually flock into it.

    Also, 10 uber players sustain easily 1000 beginners with the ped-roll they get into the game. Money doesn't need to be hoarded, it's a ressource after all, and unused ressources are worthless. So it either needs to move out of the system by withdrawing it, or it needs to be recycled into the system to generate revenue and generate 'waves' in the loot system which can be worked out by a smart mind, even without actually knowing the exact system, it can after all be seen with proper time and care then.

    So yes, it needs to revolve around the whales, but it shouldn't only focus on them, after all people need to have the opportunity to be whales first, incentive. Having both in place will lead automatically to a working system as the hope to actually be one is the thriving force of many coming into the game.
    As is the ability to own land for those wanting to invest into virtual property.
    As is the framework for people to socialize and reproduce places to do so for social players.

    All of those bring revenue, either by investing, by trying to beat the other players and be at the top of the loot pool, or to make the character and housing in the game top-notch to be at the social top of the hierarchy. No hierarchy no thrive. No meaning no goal. Simple as that, unless you only want dead zombies here who don't want anything else then kill their time, but those generally tend not to have money, so they aren't profitable for a company.

  5. #5
    Old
    Joined
    May 2016
    Gender | Ingame
    Male | Male
    Avatar
    Mentiol Dekarus Demex
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote


    Sorry, I didn't read all of it.

    Please dont post a years worth of stuff in 1 post.
    Please don't waste the time of other people, if you don't have anything to say, then don't say anything at all, common concept.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Since it's marketed as a f2p game as well it can't only be done purely by putting in money, it also needs to have the chance to do it simply by effort, using your wits, playing the market, playing the system. So those people it markets towards will actually flock into it.
    and that worked actually quite fine before loot 2.0.
    I did actually start with fruit gathering and worked my way up in the loot 1.0 days.
    But then came loot 2.x* and pretty much destroyed everything i've build over 3 years within a couple months by very often giving me bad returns, like 78% return in 700 clicks on quantity on a QR 100 BP.
    And from one month to another my plans of creating a crafting fund** and depoing a couple hundred dollars over the next year myself, changed into dissolving the fund, not depoing at all anymore and eventually even withdrawing my cash. So as it goes for making the game for gamblers, i'm against it.

    *where they made the game more volatile
    ** with revenue for investors

    200 PED gone in a few hours even on beginner stuff was/is simply way to expensive to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Also, 10 uber players sustain easily 1000 beginners with the ped-roll they get into the game.
    when 10 of those beginners stop to play you won't have a big financial issue, if the game is designed more towards small depoers instead of whales.
    when you design the game around whales and 10 of those stop, then you're in a lot of trouble, financially.

    Just catering to whales is the biggest mistake a company can do. It's very risky.
    You're underestimating the financial power and financial stability a huge mass of 5-20$ monthly depositers provide.

    Also, when the small depositers leave, then the whales don't have many people to play with, they can shoot down in PvP, sell stuff too.
    Unsatisfying experience for small depositers can end in an unsatisfying experience for the whales, who then will leave too.
    Last edited by Alukat123; 04-13-2018 at 23:39.

  7. #7
    I agree with a lot of what you said.. And it couldn't be done in a post shorter than that for anyone allergic to reading.
    The dilemma between MA openly taking more from the game or not seems an open and shut case to me.

    And it is perplexing why these people are so willing to jump to MA's defense all the time. Are they protecting their end?

    Hunting is nothing like before 2.0. Your points on the loot rarity are valid.. It is taking an awful long time to see MU balance if that was the original goal. In fact maybe there are bigger swings now.
    Crafting before this recent update was enjoyable, maybe you hit or miss. But now all I seem to do is miss... A couple of 4 PED success is nothing compared to the 20-30-40 PED success' every now and then. Globals are non existent.

    All of this could of course be because I am past the honeymoon period and am in between being able to earn the big loots and rare stuff, and not so noob anymore. you know the globals i never seem to hit anymore, that were intended to suck me in. A bit like the shared loot waves, the loot seems to have been nerfed, after the honeymoon period.

    But you seem to have addressed a lot of my own concerns regarding the changes.. Leaving me with a big ? on my face.. Like the eco issue. Finding out what gun was eco, and doing some research gave the whole grinding to achieve something, even MORE validity.. Achievement was THE selling point for me on this game.. Introducing efficiency and wiping out a lot of investment in high MU guns was such a slap in the face to big spending players.

    Ahh you cover so many things I agree with I forget which one I wanted to comment on, but there is A LOT!!

    I see a lot of the same names involved in some big buying and selling of items. IS THIS the reason MA is changing it so much. I would imagine it is quite difficult to control that side of the game. There will probably be a buyer/seller tax introduced soon. MA need their end from that too!!!
    Last edited by Cartoon Spoon; 04-14-2018 at 00:49.

  8. #8
    Mutated mastermesh's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2007
    Gender | Ingame
    Male | Female
    Location
    Billy Bar
    Avatar
    Maria Mesh
    Society
    tAS->Entropia Asia Cadets->Entropia Asia->Zoku->NBK->NBK Entrepreneur->Kaos->the Ministry
    Posts
    13,760
    Blog Entries
    9
    Images
    1690
    Quote Originally Posted by Mentiol View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There are basically only 2 options there at the moment: Either MA is absolutely and utterly imcompetent, which is bad, but can at least be changed, or MA is actively milking the community, which is disgusting. I give them the doubt that they are simply incompetent, bad enough but acceptable at least.
    Actually seems to be a bit of both... many promises broken yearly for over a decade now, and 'new systems' and locations always thrown on top to give folks more carrots to chase...

    Incompetent? Strong word, but it works somewhat... Understaffed and over-ambitious may be better way to word it...
    History tells us lots... (sadly many historians are leaving the game en masse lately, (or they are taking inside jobs less focused on being critical of things with their rosy colored glasses), so history may die with them as they exit stage left or turn in to the enemy they hunted with 'facts and opinions' a few years back...)

    My personal take on it is that Loot 2.0 flattened out the returns for everyone, which really needed to be done... now they need to refill each mob's loot tables with the good stuff... but with this whole 'looter profession' thing I think they are heading a bit in the wrong direction on that... should have just stuck with loot 2.0 but made fewer shrapnel returns and more 'other stuff'... if looter makes the tt value difference, which it seems to based on what's been stated in forums, it's uh, well, gonna scare off the 'whales' as you call em... since only top tier will be able to get anything... Whales don't need to be killer sharks eating everything further down on the food chain.
    Last edited by mastermesh; 04-14-2018 at 02:12.

  9. #9
    Stalker DavinFelth's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2009
    Gender | Ingame
    Male | Male
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Avatar
    Davin Trooper Felth
    Society
    Natural Born Killers
    Posts
    2,139
    Blog Entries
    2
    Images
    32
    I appreciate your enthuasim for the game, but after reading the first paragraph or so, I thought "yea same thing I've heard/thought for years." MA never seems to listen to the players, communicate to the players, or seems to give a crap about them. I just feel like it's a group of 5-6 guys... bankers, who just sit around and pay someone to toss in some code every week or so and they are like out skiing or something.
    They get a community manager, they post 5x and then we hear from them like once a quarter.
    I love the game, the concept, the sci-fi, and so on, but IMO loot and cost to play continues to be a huge problem that they don't change.. or for the better.

  10. #10
    Elite trance's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Old Switzerland
    Avatar
    hypnotica TRANCE blain
    Society
    Natural Born Killers
    Posts
    3,975
    Images
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by DavinFelth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I just feel like it's a group of 5-6 guys... bankers, who just sit around and pay someone to toss in some code every week or so and they are like out skiing or something.
    Sadly, it feels like that.

Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Planet Calypso on Twitter  Follow Planet Calypso on Facebook