Problems in EU, as well as solutions, discussion definitely wanted.

The big question on my side is: Are you playing for fun? For profit? Or a mixture where different things you do are clearly seen as either profitable or just doing it for the heck of it with another goal in mind then PED?
Those are a few important questions. As if you're doing it mostly for the fun and expect to loose out while not playing overly eco in every case, loosing out for long periods of time is definitely ok, and even expected, the same mentality I share whenever I go and hunt something just for completing a mission instead of MU. I sometimes want to simply have fun as well, and I expect my fun to come at a cost, just reasonable.

The list of reasons why i play EU is much longer than only fun and ped. EU is my trainer to get and stay keen and focused, i got to know people in about 20 timeszones worldwide, call many of them my friends, skilled my english and leanred a lot about economy and about myself. EU is my learning platform about risk-analysis and positioning myself, my alternative old age life insurance... and much more
 
And now imagine that you take all the time spent by whining here and do some ingame loot composition research instead ;)

What gives you right to bitch about someone who is pointing to issues with the game especially when he is right. You didn't even answer to simply question about your "profit" from previous post which could be kinda funny reveal.
 
The list of reasons why i play EU is much longer than only fun and ped. EU is my trainer to get and stay keen and focused, i got to know people in about 20 timeszones worldwide, call many of them my friends, skilled my english and leanred a lot about economy and about myself. EU is my learning platform about risk-analysis and positioning myself, my alternative old age life insurance... and much more

Yeah, and I can absolutely understand that, it's one of the base reasons why people stay in the game despite it turning into a simple mainstream cash-grab instead of the great niche game which was able to run into a long-term profitable venue for both MA and players who did it right.

But given your reasons to stay: Eve Online offers the exact same things, more modern, more option, less money needed to actively play, far more active community.
The only thing it isn't is an 'old age insurance' which sadly Entropia isn't anymore either. I invested quite a bit into it as well, and now it risks to loose my investment made for a good reason back then.
As an old player yes, you'll stay for those things you've already achieved here, in-game and social, as well as from a knowledge perspective. But why would a new player take the effort to built this up without any sort of reward right now?

Outdated things:
The only official chat channel is rookie, all others are player made in some way, it needs to be split into a Global chat, a helping chat and the respective trading chats, with proper mechanics for each like showing what you sell while you're online when clicking on a person. Auctions and shop-pads are there to sell things when you aren't online after all.
Sweating and fruit walking is ever decreasing in return, those were f2p systems for new players to get a small start, they need to be revised.
Loot needs to be worked back into the old system, dpp and knowledge made for profits there, now it's pure PED used personally to PED returned personally, which makes you loose in TT no matter what you do.
Critical strikes need to be reworked again, they are now a detriment, stop the crit rings from dropping, input no more of those, main problem with the massive gap between new players and ubers solved, there needs to be still SOME gap to show the difference.
The Pet-system wasn't ever implemented properly, the passive buffs are nice, but what about cross-play with ComPet and Arena matches with specific training for specific pets? A lot of opportunity there which is untapped.
Space is outdated. Only a risk, never a reward unless you're a pirate, and even they have mostly a loss and rather fun at shooting people simply. Motherships were never properly implemented, as were Hangars.
Land Areas need to be sold properly again, many promised ones were never released, those need to get into the hands of LA-owners to give more different events and reasons to hunt in those lands.
Crafting needs to be reworked properly, meaning people need an actual reason to craft which can be profitable. Rare (L) Blueprints from all sorts of venues which give an actual incentive to use, some were implemented over time but killed by the flattened returns of hunting again, those need to drop from abysmal returning blueprints especially to give a reason to use them.
Unlimited equipment needs to be put into perspective, rather a high (L) MU weapon with high dpp and therefore high returns, or a UL weapon with a bit worse dpp but never MU again, makes viable tactics for both venues instead of only focusing on UL right now since it's always cheaper with the existing system.

These are just a few quick things to think about, some might not work out perfectly, but some are a foolproof thing to put life into Entropia again. Markets are dead right now, people leave in flocks and even those which stay deposit far less then I know of personally. Sure, the rare single person too dumb to realize what's going on will come, but those are well... rare.
 
Outdated things:
The only official chat channel is rookie, all others are player made in some way, it needs to be split into a Global chat, a helping chat and the respective trading chats, with proper mechanics for each like showing what you sell while you're online when clicking on a person. Auctions and shop-pads are there to sell things when you aren't online after all.
This is a good idea, good to implement as a public profile, all your skills, recent globals, property and listings in shop/AH. plus any description you want to add
Sweating and fruit walking is ever decreasing in return, those were f2p systems for new players to get a small start, they need to be revised.
not sure how you would implement it, sweat is in more crafting bps but the price has continued to fall. the other problem is, make it too good and sweat farms will appear, killing the market for normal players. other option is ban sweating at a certain level like before
Loot needs to be worked back into the old system, dpp and knowledge made for profits there, now it's pure PED used personally to PED returned personally, which makes you loose in TT no matter what you do.
Critical strikes need to be reworked again, they are now a detriment, stop the crit rings from dropping, input no more of those, main problem with the massive gap between new players and ubers solved, there needs to be still SOME gap to show the difference.
Loot 2.x/Loot 1.5, either way the system was stacked to take. Loot 2.x takes the same amount slower and there should be no guaranteed profit. You can still farm MU if you research your mobs, for example, Robot Weapon Grip, fairly common from troopers, 130% MU. The biggest problem is Caly screwed their loot table, the other planets have decent loot in a mixture of mobs, diluted mineral extractors are quite common on Cyrene.
Crit is weird, its a bonus and a penalty in one. good when needing kills for ML events or grinding, but lowers the output loot a little. but ofc if you can lower the cost to kill, your losses will be less severe. it does need a rework with crits not penalised in the loot

The Pet-system wasn't ever implemented properly, the passive buffs are nice, but what about cross-play with ComPet and Arena matches with specific training for specific pets? A lot of opportunity there which is untapped.
Space is outdated. Only a risk, never a reward unless you're a pirate, and even they have mostly a loss and rather fun at shooting people simply.

Agree with the pets, ive stated before, compet should be accessable directly from EU with EU peds, interchangable pets with EU pet battles (working either turn based like compet or action based like the pills)
Space needs work, give the pirates the ability to scan ships and it would tell them any lootables you carry, they can decide if to shoot you down or not. stop players from logging out on MS as that is pretty much cheating. but most importantly, make space interesting, give it the delivery missions, iron missions, high risk mining. Currently its just an empty space and in its current state, it might as well not exist

ADDITION
Please add an option to list a timestamp next to the chats (like the chat log), its a pain when you have been AFK and come back to chat and have no idea if its recent
 
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But why would a new player take the effort to built this up without any sort of reward right now?

So you want to earn before even the foundation stone is set, let alone the whole business building with 100 floors? You expect the ROI of the whole business before 1 cable is in the house, let alone computers and whatever you need to make the big company run, no workers paid, no contracts signed? There is no place in real or virtual world like this, not even in the derivative world. And EU is quite the opposite of that for sure. In fact its this kind of quick-cash-attitude that will suck your pedcard dry in no time.

Patience, discipline, dedication, compassion even, self control, the ability to gather information and think big/longterm and make plans. This is what its all about. Oh yeah and a little bit of crazyness...

Besides: A newbie nowadays can run around in Adj Armor with an Adj Bukins Rifle and a S10 fap within a few days and 50bucks spent, still has cash left on the card. A newbie could also invest 500bucks, buy Adj Resto, do heal services, healig himself with an unsurpassed eco, getting the above mentioned toys and with a little luck hof half of it back within a few days.A newbie could spent 5k USD on the game, buy AUDs and CLDs and will never run out of cash anymore and might have pulled the invisible ticket for a really large HoF. And some put in 50k USD, can later say they have been noob for 20min, buy ubah skills, buy topnotch items and 200 CLDs to run them and gonna hit the ATH on the next mob. So i dont see anything wrong in the todays newbie situation.
 
So you want to earn before even the foundation stone is set, let alone the whole business building with 100 floors? You expect the ROI of the whole business before 1 cable is in the house, let alone computers and whatever you need to make the big company run, no workers paid, no contracts signed? There is no place in real or virtual world like this, not even in the derivative world. And EU is quite the opposite of that for sure. In fact its this kind of quick-cash-attitude that will suck your pedcard dry in no time.

Patience, discipline, dedication, compassion even, self control, the ability to gather information and think big/longterm and make plans. This is what its all about. Oh yeah and a little bit of crazyness...

Besides: A newbie nowadays can run around in Adj Armor with an Adj Bukins Rifle and a S10 fap within a few days and 50bucks spent, still has cash left on the card. A newbie could also invest 500bucks, buy Adj Resto, do heal services, healig himself with an unsurpassed eco, getting the above mentioned toys and with a little luck hof half of it back within a few days.A newbie could spent 5k USD on the game, buy AUDs and CLDs and will never run out of cash anymore and might have pulled the invisible ticket for a really large HoF. And some put in 50k USD, can later say they have been noob for 20min, buy ubah skills, buy topnotch items and 200 CLDs to run them and gonna hit the ATH on the next mob. So i dont see anything wrong in the todays newbie situation.

they definitely have moved well on the new player experience. i remember when i started all you got as a orange/yellow jumpsuit and a cap. no punies, vehicles, SiB guns just lots of dying over and over. sweat farms were a blood bath. still more to be done tho, from talking to new players, it seems the tutorial goes so far and then stops, players are then confused about certain aspects and lack direction

also if you give a reward to new players, people will abuse it with alts. passing all the ped to their main
 
not sure how you would implement it, sweat is in more crafting bps but the price has continued to fall. the other problem is, make it too good and sweat farms will appear, killing the market for normal players. other option is ban sweating at a certain level like before

Loot 2.x/Loot 1.5, either way the system was stacked to take. Loot 2.x takes the same amount slower and there should be no guaranteed profit. You can still farm MU if you research your mobs, for example, Robot Weapon Grip, fairly common from troopers, 130% MU. The biggest problem is Caly screwed their loot table, the other planets have decent loot in a mixture of mobs, diluted mineral extractors are quite common on Cyrene.
Crit is weird, its a bonus and a penalty in one. good when needing kills for ML events or grinding, but lowers the output loot a little. but ofc if you can lower the cost to kill, your losses will be less severe. it does need a rework with crits not penalised in the loot

For the implementation of sweat: diminishing returns the more you skill up instead of the other way around, your VSE 'wearing down' slowly, but not in a very important manner. 1% per skill level, with 1% return at lvl 100 is an option.

As for loot 2.0:
No, it's not the same return, and why shouldn't I have a guaranteed MU return of more then 100% if my equipment costs 20k dollar, I've invested research and effort as well as time into skilling to lvl 100, I don't overkill, use the absolutely best of the best ways to dwindle my output of PED as compared to a random player sitting at lvl 20 and derping ahead instead of actually looking at the game mechanics? I Should be rewarded then, he should be penalized then, simple as that, not more, not less.
Also, right now the mob I hunt offers 1 1500%MU item, several colors over 120%, 1 'common' 110% MU items, 2 103-4% MU items as well as a few 101 which are rare (besides the damn oil residue). STILL, I can't make a profit for the love of it, impossible, and I am extremely eco, using exactly the right amount of armor to counteract needing to heal without running full life, the gun doesn't overkill, it's properly amped for the health pool and efficiency and lower maturities get at most a single hit in if I don't miss, higher ones 3-4. Perfect killing range for a mob. Still not even a shrivel of profit despite all those.

So you want to earn before even the foundation stone is set, let alone the whole business building with 100 floors? You expect the ROI of the whole business before 1 cable is in the house, let alone computers and whatever you need to make the big company run, no workers paid, no contracts signed? There is no place in real or virtual world like this, not even in the derivative world. And EU is quite the opposite of that for sure. In fact its this kind of quick-cash-attitude that will suck your pedcard dry in no time.

Patience, discipline, dedication, compassion even, self control, the ability to gather information and think big/longterm and make plans. This is what its all about. Oh yeah and a little bit of crazyness...

Besides: A newbie nowadays can run around in Adj Armor with an Adj Bukins Rifle and a S10 fap within a few days and 50bucks spent, still has cash left on the card. A newbie could also invest 500bucks, buy Adj Resto, do heal services, healig himself with an unsurpassed eco, getting the above mentioned toys and with a little luck hof half of it back within a few days.A newbie could spent 5k USD on the game, buy AUDs and CLDs and will never run out of cash anymore and might have pulled the invisible ticket for a really large HoF. And some put in 50k USD, can later say they have been noob for 20min, buy ubah skills, buy topnotch items and 200 CLDs to run them and gonna hit the ATH on the next mob. So i dont see anything wrong in the todays newbie situation.

To your first paragraph: I never said that, you suggest it. What I mean with my saying is that a newbie only sees that he'll loose at higher levels as well, with even those people coming from there having often turned down from hunting 1000 hp mobs to 80 hp mobs since 2.0. That's a problem, no incentive there. Simple as that.
Sure, he needs to put effort into it, fruit walking, sweating, turning a slim profit from those measly returns with trading, hunting the right mobs to lower costs or even return 2 ped/hour with it from specific ones. That's the game usually, not what we have now. Rocktropia had those wolves nobody was hunting, they don't do damage, have overly much hp for their level and have dropped exactly enough to sell the materials for a 2 ped/hour MU rate, downside, 10 of them weren't even letting you skill as well as 1 Carabok on Arkadia, so it is a very very very long haul, but doable. Not anymore.

Those virtues you're describing are great, but as soon as you actually work in getting those under the hood with Entropia under the CURRENT system you realize they are worth nothing anymore. Diligence... for what? Why do I need to reach lvl 100 if I only gamble for short-term wins instead of long-term profit? I'm not speaking about 'getting a HoF' or 'ATH', I'm speaking about examples which were possible WITHOUT A GLOBAL, at all, period, they were just the icing on the top, extra bonus, nice things at the end. In 1.0, give someone a good constellation of equipment, show em a place to hunt which is profitable while telling them exactly what to do and they could see immediately how it turns out at least a small amount of surplus. Then tell them 'the world is full of those places, you just have to find them first, and milk them good without saturating the market' and they went off with a huge smile. Some never found those other places, trying year after year, but they knew it existed, keeping them inside the game while they had fun. Others found it and got big in some way, turning over sometimes thousands of PED per month because they weren't contested in their field.
Let's look now. Who makes a profit? Was it over the last year or a simple ATH with luck? I'm not here to purely gamble, I can do that in a casino. There WERE chances present BEFORE, there AREN'T NOW. That's what I'm speaking about, not some blind notion 300 whining noobs have brought towards you. I'm talking about meaningful changes for the system where everyone profits long-term, well, everyone sane since I don't see people not wanting to learn or put effort into something while wanting to profit as 'sane' per se.

they definitely have moved well on the new player experience. i remember when i started all you got as a orange/yellow jumpsuit and a cap. no punies, vehicles, SiB guns just lots of dying over and over. sweat farms were a blood bath. still more to be done tho, from talking to new players, it seems the tutorial goes so far and then stops, players are then confused about certain aspects and lack direction

also if you give a reward to new players, people will abuse it with alts. passing all the ped to their main

Yeah, that's true, we went from 'MA are you stupid not to have it?' to 'MA, why the hell don't you do it right?'. It's better then before, but any gamer can immediately tell you what exactly is needed to make it better, and ways to achieve that without putting the whole market into peril from a raised input of materials. Seperate planet, seperate system for PED there, only as a training measure and people can play around with the systems as much as they like before leaving. Anyone can come back any time and try new things out, but you don't get anything for doing stuff there, it's just a sandbox for the game mechanics, nothing else. Hard to do? Nope. Why hasn't it been done? Don't ask me, maybe they just want to be lazy and let the community handle it. The initial investment for it would pay of a hundredfold over time.
 
And another the literal blindness of some of the playerbase.

I believe "figurative" is the word you are looking for here.

A long long while ago that was done purely by game knowledge, having high skills and being able to offer things to the market which are so rare and sought-after that they were expensive and wanted.
Many tries to 'balance' the game have been undertaken since then, a new engine, breaking several gameplay systems, revamping the loot system several times in different ways, like the introduction of shrapnel and finally the switch from a randomized system which can be understood slightly with efford towards an appaling mash coming close to something which isn't discerning a lot between equipment and skills anymore.
That's unarguably bad. If an RPG is made where the items, mobs and locations you do things are hard to be discerned in any way, then it has fundamentally failed, and the rework to 2.0 made this happen.
Why though? Well, no matter how 'effective' my weapon, armor, fap, enhancers and so on are, it basically only changes the outcome by around 7% as MA has stated, meaning 93% aren't coming from that. So the major part of an RPG, the equipment, is being nearly useless, making a beginner the same as an end-game player basically.

In the pre-loot 2.0 system you didn't need an in depth knowledge of the game. All you needed was level 100 laser sniper/damage and an Imk2 and you could figuratively print PEDs by hunting and getting over 100% return in the TT. Markup didn't hardly matter except to push the profits further.
Arguably, loot 2.0 making that 7% max variance actually makes in depth knowledge of the game far more valuable, as profits are now based more on markup than they are on DPP.

So, to put together what loot changes since shrapnel did:
Equipment got marginalized.
Useful items were removed to get people turning over more PED.
The drop of actually useable items got nearly turned down to 0.
Hunting specific mobs is nearly non-important anymore.
Personal skill plays much less of an important role now, luck and money put into the game does mostly, to a far bigger degree.

Hunting specific mobs is more important than ever before. With no more ability to consistently make PEDs by hyper eco hunting, you MUST pick your mobs based on markup in order to generate a profit.
When you say "useful items were removed" what exactly are you referring to? There are some old school components (advanced target assessment units, BTAUs, etc) which were removed, but they were replaced with a new blueprint series (ArMatrix) which has done a better job of improving the overall economy, as animal oils actually sell now to ArMatrix crafters consistently (whereas before they were sold basically to gamblers looking for cheap BPs to click).

The loot system needs to be changed immediately, and the voices of loyal long-term players need to be far more weighty then some random non-depositing beginner who has seen the game for a single week.

If you take an objective look at the threads on the forums regarding loot, you will notice several trends. "This creature didn't carry any loot", absence of markup due to looting BLP packs/weapon cells, and the exaggerated swings high and low of loot volatility were all major issues that a large number of the playerbase found frustrating for years. All three of these have been resolved over time. This is by no means a comprehensive list, but it's just a sample of examples to make the point.
Would you mind showing me an example of a suggestion made by a "non-depositing beginner who has seen the game for a single week" which was actually implemented?

Don't pamper the company, make their life a living hell if they screw with you. Yes, it's a game, but damn yes, it's one which takes your money, so they have to provide an actual modern way of providing at least the most basic things.

There is a fundamental issue here - and that is that this is not WoW or Runescape or some other subscription based game where you can just boycott for a few weeks, come back, and the game will be running as usual. This is a dynamic real cash economy. The vast majority of value ingame is in markup, which is exclusively based on the players. If the economy ingame collapsed everyone would lose significant value. You can't just boycott and then expect to come back to business as usual, it's more complex than that.

Revamping a money system so it favors beginners more? Are you nuts? It's like stripping the people putting in the most loyality and effort into the game of their status, it's disrespectful.

The system doesn't favor beginners more. If you go out and kill 100,000 punies with a weapon that has 60% efficiency rating, your returns will be nearly the same as if you had hunted 100,000 Warlocks with a weapon that has a 60% efficiency rating. The difference is that along the way, you would probably end up with more marketable loot (and therefor more markup) from the warlocks than the punies.
 
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The walls of text in this thread actually indicates the real problem. The game is just too complicated. There has always been one solution and honestly I think MA is finally listening to me and slowly (which is how it needs to be) implemnting it.

Less items. The item count in the game doesn't support the amount of players. To many different things in loot, to many different components to craft things.

The thing I saw with loot 2.0 and why I started playing again. Is when I hunt one mob or even 3 in one spawn. I come back with 3-8 different stackable instead of the 20+ before.
Eventually it should drop to 2-5. Then clean up crafting with news simpler BP's. Fix drop rates to match concumption., And spit out shrapnel the rest of the time and things will balance out.
 
The walls of text in this thread actually indicates the real problem. The game is just too complicated. There has always been one solution and honestly I think MA is finally listening to me and slowly (which is how it needs to be) implemnting it.

Less items. The item count in the game doesn't support the amount of players. To many different things in loot, to many different components to craft things.

The thing I saw with loot 2.0 and why I started playing again. Is when I hunt one mob or even 3 in one spawn. I come back with 3-8 different stackable instead of the 20+ before.
Eventually it should drop to 2-5. Then clean up crafting with news simpler BP's. Fix drop rates to match concumption., And spit out shrapnel the rest of the time and things will balance out.

Game isn't complicated, theories are too complicated...
 
In the pre-loot 2.0 system you didn't need an in depth knowledge of the game. All you needed was level 100 laser sniper/damage and an Imk2 and you could figuratively print PEDs by hunting and getting over 100% return in the TT. Markup didn't hardly matter except to push the profits further.
Arguably, loot 2.0 making that 7% max variance actually makes in depth knowledge of the game far more valuable, as profits are now based more on markup than they are on DPP.



Hunting specific mobs is more important than ever before. With no more ability to consistently make PEDs by hyper eco hunting, you MUST pick your mobs based on markup in order to generate a profit.
When you say "useful items were removed" what exactly are you referring to? There are some old school components (advanced target assessment units, BTAUs, etc) which were removed, but they were replaced with a new blueprint series (ArMatrix) which has done a better job of improving the overall economy, as animal oils actually sell now to ArMatrix crafters consistently (whereas before they were sold basically to gamblers looking for cheap BPs to click).



If you take an objective look at the threads on the forums regarding loot, you will notice several trends. "This creature didn't carry any loot", absence of markup due to looting BLP packs/weapon cells, and the exaggerated swings high and low of loot volatility were all major issues that a large number of the playerbase found frustrating for years. All three of these have been resolved over time. This is by no means a comprehensive list, but it's just a sample of examples to make the point.
Would you mind showing me an example of a suggestion made by a "non-depositing beginner who has seen the game for a single week" which was actually implemented?



There is a fundamental issue here - and that is that this is not WoW or Runescape or some other subscription based game where you can just boycott for a few weeks, come back, and the game will be running as usual. This is a dynamic real cash economy. The vast majority of value ingame is in markup, which is exclusively based on the players. If the economy ingame collapsed everyone would lose significant value. You can't just boycott and then expect to come back to business as usual, it's more complex than that.



The system doesn't favor beginners more. If you go out and kill 100,000 punies with a weapon that has 60% efficiency rating, your returns will be nearly the same as if you had hunted 100,000 Warlocks with a weapon that has a 60% efficiency rating. The difference is that along the way, you would probably end up with more marketable loot (and therefor more markup) from the warlocks than the punies.

Yes, for the first part, definitely. HALF of the 2.0 implementation is good, which is loot composition then. But turning the global return from a specific mob by being more eco then others into a watered down version of a 'personal lootpool' is just nasty. I wouldn't have complained one bit if the implementation was 'ok, we got a large problem with people being able to turn over thousands of dollars by investing tens of thousands of dollars', but they didn't stop there. Now, it's only about composition, not anymore about how much PED you actually stuff into any sort of mob. Got 5% extra crit as well as 30% extra crit damage? Pfft.. who cares, actually, let us punish you for paying a literal 2500 Dollars for it, you won't even get as much as someone not using them since you overkill regularly by a larger margin!
Now, imagine the other way around. Mcdumb which just came into the game, not even wanting to see what 'eco' is, or why he shouldn't use the biggest of the biggest items in a Carabok goes out after paying a thousand dollars in the game, starting to shoot with an unmaxed gun 40 levels above him and Angel armor at them. He nearly returns the same amount of PED as the other one, well, nearly because his hit ratio is a mess, but otherwise the TT return is THE SAME, exactly. Why? He still gets at least some MU, not much, but definitely more then the 5% return that could be expected formerly, roughly around 85%. Such stupidity is now able to suck dry the loot-pool
of the others. He will be able to play a 'decent' amount of time with his money, time he hasn't earned in any way, just the contrary, who needs any sort of system rewarding those players in any way rather then those putting tons and tons of effort into it?

Armatrix: Yes, a great thing. It's a good change definitely, one I can approve of. Those 'useful items' I mean are the following things. Have you tried hunting smaller ranged mobs in the last months? Trying to get any sort of weapon from them? Before I returned roughly a month ago I looted a gun every 500 PED at least, given I was hunting Hadraada for instance, which are always a loss, but I did it for fun. I could do it with the other parts making me profit. Now, hunting Carabok made me definitely get 5-10 guns for beginners with 500 PED. Not anymore. I can be glad, very and extremely glad if I get a single gun somehwere, actually, I haven't dropped one singular piece of equipment in any form since returning, and my turnover in hunting to test out the new system was bigger then my whole testing amount of 2 years before already since I wasn't overly active.
Besides that ArMatrix did a very good job of at least saving part of the downsides from initiating other systems, like already said, MA is great in introducing great systems and with the same breath breaking 2 others on the side.

As by the reasons you stated as complaints. Sure, they were, I wasn't happy with no-peders either, nur was I with fragments or ridiculous swings. It was an extreme, one which wasn't good in any way and it needed to be remedied. Now it's the other extreme. It's the same as giving someone food. If you give him none he will complain, and of you shove a week worth of food down his throat I very likely guess he'll complain as well, is any of those good? No, it's the balancing line.
Formerly loot was ridiculously unbalanced at some times, it needed slight shifts, adaptations to the existing system. Not a bulldozer turning it around into the exact opposite position. Why not make it a flat line completely? No more multipliers, no more extra events, just pure return for each mob which is always the same? Sounds boring? Yes, definitely is, that's what happened with the changes which are many seeing, it's friggin boring, volatility was taken down too much, now we need to put it back up again.
Also, show me one single implementation which was suggested that hasn't been warped beyond oblivion but actually implemented exactly as stated, without extra baggage attached, same conundrum, you won't be able to find one, MA usually needs to make it 'extra sparkly' and thus failing, keep it simple.

And yes, a boycott would risk the ruin of this game, immediate action needs to be taken then, or the other way people will just silently leave and people will then cry 'oh why, why is this happening?' I'm rather making it clear up-front then simply vanish into nothingness.

As for the 60% efficiency model you presented: wrong. Sorry to say that. A beginner can't return the same rate as an uber at the exact same mobs. Loot composition ruins it because of looter skills which are a bad idea. Also since the events for an actual drop can't trigger you'll see more % of loot being returned in shrapnel rather then actual MU items. Also the initial thought process of mine was revolving around the concept of 'whales' as well as the concept of the pareto principal which is showing that those upper few are always shifting in and out, never staying the same for extended periods of time with exception of a few core members. Meaning you need them, there needs to be a way for others to achieve this status and those people need an incentive to get this status and therefore put money into the system since they feel it's 'worth' it.
For a proper model you need to take in every variable, forgetting them is fine, but leaving out already mentioned ones means it's just shifting it into your favor, I can do that easily as well, but I want to get to the core of the problem, not step around it while trying to defend a point per se. The moment I realize that there actually is a way to profit along the way, there is a way for people to stay above 100% permanently as long as they keep their eyes open and there isn't an actual broken system is the first second I'll say 'good, topic resolved, let's close it!' which sadly isn't the case in the least.


As for the other 2 posts: Neither the game nor the theory is complicated, just not the right size for the playerbase, which is absolutely true. Shrapnel still is a bad thing, and I still come back with the exact same amount of stackables when hunting prolonged amounts of time, meaning 4+ hours, just the amount of items at all is less, meaning I return less MU then before which is killing my rates without any crafters making up for it, therefore making me loose out, therefore ruining my motivation, therefore slowly loosing me as an active player as soon as my funds are fully dwindled down.
 
The walls of text in this thread actually indicates the real problem. The game is just too complicated. There has always been one solution and honestly I think MA is finally listening to me and slowly (which is how it needs to be) implemnting it.

Less items. The item count in the game doesn't support the amount of players. To many different things in loot, to many different components to craft things.

And once the amount of players increases, you expand the items again, because there's too many items?
It's better to have too many different items and crafts as having too little, because there will be free spots in the economy for new players....
 
And once the amount of players increases, you expand the items again, because there's too many items?
It's better to have too many different items and crafts as having too little, because there will be free spots in the economy for new players....

Also that. The world is vast, economy has open spots everywhere, if you reduce those spots then it will suffer from it. The proper answer is to create interesting options to use existing materials in new ways steadily, not reduce it in any form. No complex game has ever seen an uprising from lowering down the complexity, on the contrary, those are niche anyway and need to expand further and further until nobody besides the hardest of hardcore veterans can know even a large amount of those, making the market 'alive' and 'fluid' since new venues are steadily found and lost from people coming and going.

Added:
One interesting concept for this which just came to mind is the following to solve the UL item problem and the problem with many existing items:
Yes, they are a detriment, they are already in the community, and they cause problems from messing up along the line. So, hear me out until the end as every single part of this system is important, and it's a working one with definitely some minor faults in it though:
Take all existing guns and change them into 'refurbished' editions which keep their momentary eco value, dpp as well as undoing the darn 2.0 system. BUT here comes the point. Give them a timer. Weapons age, materials age, a weapon stored for extended times won't be as good as new one anymore after all. So, after looting a weapon it's a 'normal' edition, lower dpp, uneco to an extent. Now to get it back into a 'refurbished' state you need to take in materials to upgrade it, the higher the item, the higher the cost, but also the higher the return which can come with it. It's applicable to all items in the game basically. Also, those items need to hold out for a while to make it worthwhile. One upgrade a year? Sure, why not, yearly inspection so to say, and every single item needs different materials to keep it in 'top shape'. People then can decide after the time-limit runs out of they want to keep their guns or redo the process of keeping them top-notch, sold guns won't come without hinges attached anymore, and the system can even be made fluid in some manner as there is a chance it won't turn out perfectly.
This could be linked to the 'Tier Upgrader' vocation even as it's one of the most useless ones out there anyway, giving it a proper purpose long-term and making it actually be able to be skilled.
Now, how exactly would that play out? Let's take an uber gun with a dpp of 3,95 unamped as an example. Refurbished would rause this value to 4,05 at max, and it can become anything between 3,96 at a massive failure up to the max value, only to be redone when it returns to its former state. It makes it a skill based gamble which keeps the market alive, allowing lucky fellows to profit for a year before falling from grace, or turning enough profit to get even a second try per year, or even buy other guns on the way to upgrade for other venues of return. This would make the market more alive since all materials can be used, wood, colors, oils, mechanical parts, whatever one can think of, immediately destroying the term 'useless item' as it can even be made a completely random item composition, always only needing the same amount of TT value for specific guns. It's finally a system that wouldn't be static but instead alive, shifting the market steadily so people need won't TT materials so easily anymore and nobody can absolutely monopolize on a single venue of income. It rewards the smart, it penalizes the lazy, it puts life into the game, it gives back the 'soul' of an actual market.
 
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And once the amount of players increases, you expand the items again, because there's too many items?
It's better to have too many different items and crafts as having too little, because there will be free spots in the economy for new players....

I highly doubt the number of players will increase significantly enough for this to be a problem.

There is too many items and too little supply for some of those items. Whether they re balance or remove them entirely is up to them but right now it makes no sense to have enough materials to click a blueprint 50 times EXCEPT for that one bottle neck item that no one has or wants to hunt for. I'm not going to store a few thousand peds of supplies for making an item while I wait for the one remaining ingredient to slowly trickle in. And those are the same items that new players will have absolutely 0 impact in because it takes high bank roll, high grind tolerance, high level, high gear, high ______.
 
I highly doubt the number of players will increase significantly enough for this to be a problem.

There is too many items and too little supply for some of those items. Whether they re balance or remove them entirely is up to them but right now it makes no sense to have enough materials to click a blueprint 50 times EXCEPT for that one bottle neck item that no one has or wants to hunt for. I'm not going to store a few thousand peds of supplies for making an item while I wait for the one remaining ingredient to slowly trickle in. And those are the same items that new players will have absolutely 0 impact in because it takes high bank roll, high grind tolerance, high level, high gear, high ______.

Yes, which in retrospect needs incentive for those materials to be farmed as well, meaning you don't loose 20k PED on the way there just for you to loose out even more at the mob, which probably is the only source of this type of material with bad luck. Like I've written with my suggestion one post above, that would remedy it. All materials are needed, everyone can actually profit for being at the right time at the right place, and all items besides shrapnel are reused then. Not to speak of it giving a sort of 'thrill' to see someone searching for something specific just you personally own at the moment, probably able to sell it with a high MU because of it and making your 95% run into a 105% run suddenly.
 
What gives you right to bitch about someone who is pointing to issues with the game especially when he is right. You didn't even answer to simply question about your "profit" from previous post which could be kinda funny reveal.

Yes, another stupid lazy sh*t who could give only negative rep. Yes, I will show here my results with all lootable items and interesting mobs since thanks to MU we are surely on the same side lol... think twice before you just cry and cry. No doubt that this game is somehow "pay to play" so if you are clever (read stupid) enought to give negative rep you could be clever enought to know what is meaning of word "to profit"
If not here is the definition of "profit":
"a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something."

I like how unsuccesfull players are whining that something is broke especially when they do same mistakes again and again without any efford to change their situation.

For the record (other non stupid players) I dont make profit here which will alow me to quit my job but it alows me to play for free (my personal goal) by not playing like You (Kalixt and similar screaming tards).

*Dont try to look on my EL profile since I hunt in team most of the time to cover my globals.
 
Yes, another stupid lazy sh*t who could give only negative rep. Yes, I will show here my results with all lootable items and interesting mobs since thanks to MU we are surely on the same side lol... think twice before you just cry and cry. No doubt that this game is somehow "pay to play" so if you are clever (read stupid) enought to give negative rep you could be clever enought to know what is meaning of word "to profit"
If not here is the definition of "profit":
"a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something."

I like how unsuccesfull players are whining that something is broke especially when they do same mistakes again and again without any efford to change their situation.

For the record (other non stupid players) I dont make profit here which will alow me to quit my job but it alows me to play for free (my personal goal) by not playing like You (Kalixt and similar screaming tards).

*Dont try to look on my EL profile since I hunt in team most of the time to cover my globals.

Yea, lets all be most selfish idiots in universe hiding every game action (covering globals included :laugh:) just to accomplish poor personal goals. Thats the right approach to game with such great community.

Unsuccesfull players :cool:
 
There is too many items and too little supply for some of those items. Whether they re balance or remove them entirely is up to them but right now it makes no sense to have enough materials to click a blueprint 50 times EXCEPT for that one bottle neck item that no one has or wants to hunt for.
Sometimes people are hunting it and just tt them, because they think there's no buyer for it... story of my life...

This problem however can be solved by making people aware that you're interested in buying it.
Like, have a friend set up a stack of it in auction and just buy it, so that history shows that there's a buyer.
Use forum to announce it.
Use chat.

Sure, in the beginning it may take some time to set up a supply chain, but once quite many people are aware of it, it should no longer be an issue. Simply invest time for the long run =)

I'm not going to store a few thousand peds of supplies for making an item while I wait for the one remaining ingredient to slowly trickle in. And those are the same items that new players will have absolutely 0 impact in because it takes high bank roll, high grind tolerance, high level, high gear, high ______.

high level players should rather stick to high level mobs than punies...
 

Dont worry. Be happy. :yup:
 
Yes, another stupid lazy sh*t who could give only negative rep. Yes, I will show here my results with all lootable items and interesting mobs since thanks to MU we are surely on the same side lol... think twice before you just cry and cry. No doubt that this game is somehow "pay to play" so if you are clever (read stupid) enought to give negative rep you could be clever enought to know what is meaning of word "to profit"
If not here is the definition of "profit":
"a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something."

I like how unsuccesfull players are whining that something is broke especially when they do same mistakes again and again without any efford to change their situation.

For the record (other non stupid players) I dont make profit here which will alow me to quit my job but it alows me to play for free (my personal goal) by not playing like You (Kalixt and similar screaming tards).

*Dont try to look on my EL profile since I hunt in team most of the time to cover my globals.

Well, from the globals you're not covering up it's clear you're an end-game player, at least skill lvl 60 or higher. You know how long it takes to achieve this level, and you know how much you had to invest to get towards it at the old system, not how it is with the new one.
When was the last time you had to stick hunting mobs for lvl 20-40 players, I guess it's a long time ago since you've found a profitable venue. Good for you, not everyone finds them or the right setup to properly hunt them.
What I'm talking about isn't playing on a level which was achieved a long long time before the age of 2.0 arrived, with the immediate gain of roughly 20 levels of any looter skill just from the ones already existing in your vast array of skills accumulated before it even got to be a thing. I'm speaking about a beginner, getting into the game the first time, getting penalized for being new by being unable to loot the same things like you do with the exact same items you have at the exact same mob doing the exact same thing. That's what I'm talking about.

Also, before calling people 'stupid' and falling into simple ideologies, think, deduct, realize. It's not hard, same process as learning the game initially, look at what is happening right now instead of in the past, make deductions from those things happening, especially the things some very old players with a decade of experience are saying, for instance 'I'm not depositing anymore since the change' or 'I turned down from 1000 hp mobs to 80 hp mobs' is a common thing. If you are different, cudos to you, you've done it, one out of 100 which were formerly successful. That's good for you but take it into the grand perspective of group psychology, net output and return for the overall player and the general state of the game compared to a few years before. It hasn't gotten better, the peak times of the market are sadly gone, enough to see it with a single glance. I don't think you can call that good for anyone, it affects every single person concerning MU return. Also I haven't seen more then 5 players at Hadraada in a week, while formerly there were at least that much there each day. I don't think it has shifted that much, because walking over to Ark punies showed the exact same, not even enough to dwindle down the spawn properly, not to speak of them fighting for mobs like it was last year the case.

Wake up, it's not good, change needs to happen and quick or this game is dead, and therefore your small amount of profit as well. But if MA does proper things, your profit will rise to an amount where you can actually nearly life off of it for a while when playing wisely, wouldn't that be better then now? Tell me one reason why a functioning market is a bad thing, meaning venues where one can profit with MU more easily, and therefore more trading, crafting and mining opportunities. Or don't you want to see something like that happen? Given up on making situations better then they are? I don't know, tell me, I'm actually quite curious about it because it puzzles me a bit.
 
One thing which came to mind for me which is important to underline what I mean about 'people can't win in the existing system, very important one:

Yes, I know some can, their number is just very slim, which points to a malfunctioning market. To put it into relativity to see what a functioning one would be I'll once more get the pareto principal into it, since it's an inherent fact which can't be taken out of any functional hierarchy in any way.
To have a thriving community ~10% of them need to be successful, you can't make it 80% or anything like that, it wouldn't be sustainable, after all the money has to come from somewhere, and it needs to go somewhere, with MA needing their cut, and with the successful people needing their cut. So, some have to loose.
If you create a market where roughly 10% are turning a profit, and of those 10% you have a rough number of 10% which are extremely successful, your system works and people are driven to get to that point.
So what does it mean exactly?
People get into this game, pay their 40 dollars for the starter pack to get a good little start, then maybe they pay 50 dollar to get strongboxes, which already is more money put into the system then a full priced AAA gaming title provides their publishers, and enough to sustain constant development in a meaningful way. Only 10% of the people who are entering the game need to do this as well, another example of the pareto principal.
So, given they've invested those 90 bucks they are now owning roughly 900 PED of items, that's a lot for a beginner. From then on the system needs to allowe 10% of them to create 1000 PED out of it at least while the other 90% loose a respective amount. 1 guy doing so might even make 5000 PED in the same time out of it, and 1 guy will probably loose absolutely everything over the same period of time, just natural. Given that after lets say a year you have a few people who are overly successful, thriving in the community, some are moderately successful, thriving as well. A few are at a stalemate, and most have lost quite a bit or even everything along the way. That's a good system because it gives incentive.
People tend to see only the people at the top, never the limping one along the line trying to achieve it, the minority needs to win, the majority loose, but there needs to be the chance to do so in both directions, always, and without fail. What we see now is 1% winning in a non-meaningful way while 1% of this 1% is actually winning in a meaningful way. That's too low of a number, non-sustainable. The system is skewed in a single direction, which is loosing, and people can't get out of the cycle at any time because either their funds are too small and can't be built up, or they just don't have the means to access the lucrative things in any manner at all without putting in massive amounts of money, ranging inside several hundreds if not thousands of dollars just to get a net 100% return with the ways they've found, given they've even found one since they are rare.
People are content with loosing, not everyone is out to win, those sustain the system. But you need those people able to win to show off the functioning concept of the system as well, otherwise those playing for fun will leave as well since the 'big guys' are mostly those setting up the frameworks for a functioning system. Big time crafters which flood the market so everyone can buy a wide range of items. Big time miners to sustain the smaller crafters with materials so they can rise above the beginner status. As well as big time hunters who provide a steady influx of materials for coming to the aid of small players as it lowers the MU for specific items since there is just a large influx of materials.
Take this away and you're left with what we have now. A lack of crafting options features very few venues of revenue, therefore the incentive to hunt anything besides a very minor amount of mobs with a very minor amount of special equipment isn't given, therefore miners can't sell a vast amount of their things and therefore beginners are put before a hefty wall to reach success in any manner. The system just isn't rewarding, doing things just to do things isn't a means to an end, people need a goal to strive towards, no matter how it looks like.
Without a vast array of meaningful goals for them given the people leave, therefore taking out potential investments of the future which hinders the game to develop further as well as hindering the big-time players to have anyone to get profit from as they are the only ones left over extended periods of time. The smartest people leave first because they see a sinking ship, the stupid ones or attached ones which have a clouded perspective (like me to be clear here) keep at it for prolonged times in the hope of change, either loosing more or wasting their time. Common concepts which are proven many times in the market. A successful company will turn in more and more success until the playing field shifts massively, a failing company will dwindle further and further unless extreme measures are taken instead of holding to the course one is running, just natural evolution of systems, if we like it or not, those are basic principles we can't change and either have to adhere to, or loose out and be unhappy about it afterwards.

What I simply want to make clear here is that the system is skewed in a direction, people aren't dumb and see it, get frustrated and leave. This doesn't need to be so I'm saying 'Please MA fix it with the knowledge of people understanding markets as well as behavioral psychologists of the field, you can make this work great, and it actually hurts to see it slowly moving towards disaster, we are pulling on the same strings here and both want it to be successful, so please show us you want that to happen too.'
 
wall of text


I agree with a lot of what you said.. And it couldn't be done in a post shorter than that for anyone allergic to reading.

more walls of text

What I would like to know is, who is posting this?
I see many new forum account posting things as they have been playing for over a decade.
Now, this might be perfectly possible, but we cant see who is posting this.

Would it be an idea to put your avatar names visible in your profiles so we know who is posting all this?

Why hide your ingame avatar names?
 
I appreciate your enthuasim for the game, but after reading the first paragraph or so, I thought "yea same thing I've heard/thought for years." MA never seems to listen to the players, communicate to the players, or seems to give a crap about them. I just feel like it's a group of 5-6 guys... bankers, who just sit around and pay someone to toss in some code every week or so and they are like out skiing or something.
They get a community manager, they post 5x and then we hear from them like once a quarter.
I love the game, the concept, the sci-fi, and so on, but IMO loot and cost to play continues to be a huge problem that they don't change.. or for the better.


Sadly, it feels like that.


And still we keep hanging around and play.

Sure, some might have left, but those were mostly the "whales" that drained the loot pool by getting constant tt profits which ended with loo 2.0.

So, my simple conclusion is that it's not all that bad. Otherwise sky would have fallen already.
 
And still we keep hanging around and play.

Sure, some might have left, but those were mostly the "whales" that drained the loot pool by getting constant tt profits which ended with loo 2.0.

So, my simple conclusion is that it's not all that bad. Otherwise sky would have fallen already.

I did as you told, opening my Avatar name so you can see it, nothing to hide after all.

And sadly that exactly is the problem I described in my last post. In every existing hierarchy the first persons to leave are either the extremely unsuccessful, or the overly successful. Why so? unsuccessful is clear, searching for another venue since it's not 'fun' for them in any way. But why the successful ones? Because they see that their success is taken away, therefore they deduct it's not rewarding enough for their effort anymore and other places deliver that. The same happens in a company, first the competent leave when something goes haywire for a while, then only the incompetent ones are left, which is the momentary state at MA. Highly successful at the beginning, stagnating, incompetence as main level afterwards, they are a simple common highlight of how companies change with paradigm shifts.

So, as for 'It's not so bad' since they have taken the loot pool. That's true to a degree, but you're speaking from a social standpoint, which inherently isn't bad, but only if you're acting in a social field. Entropia is a market simulation, and markets aren't social, they are driven by competition. It's the main factor as to why they function, competition is incentive, incentive is adaptation and change. Take away the competition and you get stagnation, which in return is just not enticing with the main selling point of the game. You could call the game 'fragmented' even, untrue to it's purpose and drifting off into a definitely wrong direction, if your selling point isn't what you're delivering, then people will be disappointed for a reason an leave, giving back a bad reputation even.
 
I did as you told, opening my Avatar name so you can see it, nothing to hide after all.


Thanks. Now we know who's talking :D


And sadly that exactly is the problem I described in my last post. In every existing hierarchy the first persons to leave are either the extremely unsuccessful, or the overly successful. Why so? unsuccessful is clear, searching for another venue since it's not 'fun' for them in any way. But why the successful ones? Because they see that their success is taken away, therefore they deduct it's not rewarding enough for their effort anymore and other places deliver that. The same happens in a company, first the competent leave when something goes haywire for a while, then only the incompetent ones are left, which is the momentary state at MA. Highly successful at the beginning, stagnating, incompetence as main level afterwards, they are a simple common highlight of how companies change with paradigm shifts.

So, as for 'It's not so bad' since they have taken the loot pool. That's true to a degree, but you're speaking from a social standpoint, which inherently isn't bad, but only if you're acting in a social field. Entropia is a market simulation, and markets aren't social, they are driven by competition. It's the main factor as to why they function, competition is incentive, incentive is adaptation and change. Take away the competition and you get stagnation, which in return is just not enticing with the main selling point of the game. You could call the game 'fragmented' even, untrue to it's purpose and drifting off into a definitely wrong direction, if your selling point isn't what you're delivering, then people will be disappointed for a reason an leave, giving back a bad reputation even.

I still dont see the problem.

The "overly successful" would have killed the game long term. Simply by leeching the money out of the game till it's dry and dies.
That they left because of loot 2.0 I wont loose any tears over since I want this game to last a bit longer.

But then again, how would you define successful?
Isn't that extremely subjective?

Some consider having fun as being successful, even if that means they have to deposit.
Others consider making money as a measure of success.
And then others consider getting skilled up to at least lvl 100 as fast as possible as a measure of success.

So if people quit because of being unsuccessful, it's simply out of frustration that they cant reach their own personal goals, whatever those personal goals might be.
And the higher your goals, the more challenge but also the greater the feeling of failure if you cant reach them.

All I know is, this game caters to everyone.
It offers many ways to make money, or to spend/lose it.

What you consider a problem, might not be a problem at all to me (or others) or vice versa.


And as said, I've seen so many complaint threads that I don't put much value into them anymore.
Sky has been falling to long for me to keep running away from it.

It's simply impossible to please everyone.


And remember, we live in an ever shifting universe. EU is dynamic, right?
What can be good today, sucks tomorrow.
Things that are priceless now, can become useless overnight, but things useless now can become priceless again.

Simply adept and accept.
 
Thanks. Now we know who's talking :D




I still dont see the problem.

The "overly successful" would have killed the game long term. Simply by leeching the money out of the game till it's dry and dies.
That they left because of loot 2.0 I wont loose any tears over since I want this game to last a bit longer.

But then again, how would you define successful?
Isn't that extremely subjective?

Some consider having fun as being successful, even if that means they have to deposit.
Others consider making money as a measure of success.
And then others consider getting skilled up to at least lvl 100 as fast as possible as a measure of success.

So if people quit because of being unsuccessful, it's simply out of frustration that they cant reach their own personal goals, whatever those personal goals might be.
And the higher your goals, the more challenge but also the greater the feeling of failure if you cant reach them.

All I know is, this game caters to everyone.
It offers many ways to make money, or to spend/lose it.

What you consider a problem, might not be a problem at all to me (or others) or vice versa.


And as said, I've seen so many complaint threads that I don't put much value into them anymore.
Sky has been falling to long for me to keep running away from it.

It's simply impossible to please everyone.


And remember, we live in an ever shifting universe. EU is dynamic, right?
What can be good today, sucks tomorrow.
Things that are priceless now, can become useless overnight, but things useless now can become priceless again.

Simply adept and accept.

The part of Loot 2.0:
Nobody but the top 0,1% can win in a market driven game revolving around real money. It's not a 'fun' game, it's a market simulation.
I for my place can play less then before, costs of playing have skyrocketed for me, the game isn't modern or unique enough to give enough reason to stay permanently.

Successful is subjective and there are several groups of success, yes. I'm talking about the parts which come psychologically attached to how the game is marketed, other success forms exist and need to co-exist, but what's marketed needs to be focused, not more, not less.

And yes, they leave because the goal is unobtainable. In an open market the chances to obtain goals is high, or at least given, many chances have been taken away, therefore more people leaving then coming, also a simple concept.

No, this game never catered to 'everyone', nothing can do, stay real, ideologies don't help. It doesn't cater to people without money, it doesn't cater to self-made people, it doesn't cater to people which want randomised loot, it doesn't cater to survival players, or puzzle players, or... list goes on. Narrow down to the group of people it adheres to, important.
Also no, not many ways, few ways to make money, many to loose. Won't change, given fact, needed. The balance is skewed.

And yes, you might not consider it a problem, and that's ok. It's your opinion after all. The question is when do you consider it a system which isn't working? When there is nothing left on the market? Or when you only see 5 people ever talking across all planets? Where is your line, that needs to be clear, otherwise you'll find yourself crossing that line swiftly before realizing it, and that's not good for you, just as a heads-up.

Also I can understand why you're not putting much thought into it anymore, people get numbed after reading the same thing over and over and over. Hardly anyone does actually read them then, and even fever consider the points made. But given there are complaints everywhere, isn't it just worth a thought to actually think about it and look if the problems talked about are existing? The solutions might not be written out, but the problems are percieved by many. If you just want to consider your own viewpoint then sure, no harm done with ignoring those, but if you want a thriving community it's mandatory to at least see if there is even a single, no matter how small, viable point inside of it. That's the process of learning and adaption, ignorance is the other side.

It's possible to please a majority though, and turn profits, not the case, ideologies aren't feasable as said.

EU was dynamic, it's not shifting since a few years, stayed the same concept, the same thing basically. 20 Materials changed their MU up or down over time drastically, everything else was static. So no, not dynamic, it's the contrary of what is a proper description of the term, and terminology is important to find the truth of a matter, whitewashing things into any direction is only covering problems which will persist. Also, generally things have become useless, give me an example of something which has been useless and become priceless.
 
The part of Loot 2.0:
Nobody but the top 0,1% can win in a market driven game revolving around real money. It's not a 'fun' game, it's a market simulation.
I for my place can play less then before, costs of playing have skyrocketed for me, the game isn't modern or unique enough to give enough reason to stay permanently.

Then you're play style doesn't match your budget.
Adept your play style, or quit if you don't see any other option.
But dont complain to us that you cant reach your satisfaction here and that things should be changed to cater you.
Not saying that you should leave, in contrary, you should stay since the more the merrier.


Successful is subjective and there are several groups of success, yes. I'm talking about the parts which come psychologically attached to how the game is marketed, other success forms exist and need to co-exist, but what's marketed needs to be focused, not more, not less.

And yes, they leave because the goal is unobtainable. In an open market the chances to obtain goals is high, or at least given, many chances have been taken away, therefore more people leaving then coming, also a simple concept.

The goal might be unobtainable if you set your expectations to high, or you're simply not smart, skilled, persistent or rich enough to reach your goals.


No, this game never catered to 'everyone', nothing can do, stay real, ideologies don't help. It doesn't cater to people without money, it doesn't cater to self-made people, it doesn't cater to people which want randomised loot, it doesn't cater to survival players, or puzzle players, or... list goes on. Narrow down to the group of people it adheres to, important.
Also no, not many ways, few ways to make money, many to loose. Won't change, given fact, needed. The balance is skewed.

Totally disagree.
It DOES cater to everybody. You can play without ever depositing. Many have done it and are doing it still.
Many many noob missions out there which gives tons of free stuff.

But no, the money doesn't lie out there like fruit that you pick up.
You do need at least some degree of knowledge to make money.
But yeah, it's totally possible to make money. Just dont expect to make money by simply using an autoclick function though.
That might have worked pre loot 2.0, but not anymore.



Also I can understand why you're not putting much thought into it anymore, people get numbed after reading the same thing over and over and over. Hardly anyone does actually read them then, and even fever consider the points made. But given there are complaints everywhere, isn't it just worth a thought to actually think about it and look if the problems talked about are existing? The solutions might not be written out, but the problems are percieved by many. If you just want to consider your own viewpoint then sure, no harm done with ignoring those, but if you want a thriving community it's mandatory to at least see if there is even a single, no matter how small, viable point inside of it. That's the process of learning and adaption, ignorance is the other side.


Lol, not putting much thought into it? Numbed??
Why would I even react to this thread if I dont put much thought in it ot are numbed?

Heck, I made it my crusade to fight all the shit here when there's yet another posts full of complaints about this game and sky is falling, not going to deposit anymore etc etc.

Not saying none are justified, but I think it doesnt help. It only hurts the game even more.
If you have suggestions, post them in the suggestions part. Instead of making threads about quitting and complaining all over the game.
This hurts the game. New people will read all this shit and think twice about sticking around.
This brings us further in the downwards spiral.
Is that what we want?



EU was dynamic, it's not shifting since a few years, stayed the same concept, the same thing basically. 20 Materials changed their MU up or down over time drastically, everything else was static. So no, not dynamic, it's the contrary of what is a proper description of the term, and terminology is important to find the truth of a matter, whitewashing things into any direction is only covering problems which will persist.

Lol, EU has shifted enormously!
Loot 2.0??? Huge shift!! Land slide!
But yes, the concept stayed the same. But is that bad?
As a conservative I dont need that much change. I like the things as they are. But if the world around me shifts, I just shift along with it, since I'm not capable of stopping it anyways.
That might sound weak, but I'd rather swim along the current instead of against it.


Also, generally things have become useless, give me an example of something which has been useless and become priceless.

Hehehe, not gonna tell you that. I'm not going to make money for you. You find that out yourself ;)



Lets bring some more love and acceptance to this game and foremost to the MA staff.
We all know that they're just a bunch of incompetent programmers, but at least I respect them for giving us the opportunity to live in the universe.
Let's accept that they dont listen to us and that we have to live in this imperfect world.
With acceptance comes relief!


*goes back to his Zen temple for some more acceptance therapy after todays lousy hunt"
 
Then you're play style doesn't match your budget.
Adept your play style, or quit if you don't see any other option.
But dont complain to us that you cant reach your satisfaction here and that things should be changed to cater you.
Not saying that you should leave, in contrary, you should stay since the more the merrier.




The goal might be unobtainable if you set your expectations to high, or you're simply not smart, skilled, persistent or rich enough to reach your goals.




Totally disagree.
It DOES cater to everybody. You can play without ever depositing. Many have done it and are doing it still.
Many many noob missions out there which gives tons of free stuff.

But no, the money doesn't lie out there like fruit that you pick up.
You do need at least some degree of knowledge to make money.
But yeah, it's totally possible to make money. Just dont expect to make money by simply using an autoclick function though.
That might have worked pre loot 2.0, but not anymore.






Lol, not putting much thought into it? Numbed??
Why would I even react to this thread if I dont put much thought in it ot are numbed?

Heck, I made it my crusade to fight all the shit here when there's yet another posts full of complaints about this game and sky is falling, not going to deposit anymore etc etc.

Not saying none are justified, but I think it doesnt help. It only hurts the game even more.
If you have suggestions, post them in the suggestions part. Instead of making threads about quitting and complaining all over the game.
This hurts the game. New people will read all this shit and think twice about sticking around.
This brings us further in the downwards spiral.
Is that what we want?





Lol, EU has shifted enormously!
Loot 2.0??? Huge shift!! Land slide!
But yes, the concept stayed the same. But is that bad?
As a conservative I dont need that much change. I like the things as they are. But if the world around me shifts, I just shift along with it, since I'm not capable of stopping it anyways.
That might sound weak, but I'd rather swim along the current instead of against it.




Hehehe, not gonna tell you that. I'm not going to make money for you. You find that out yourself ;)



Lets bring some more love and acceptance to this game and foremost to the MA staff.
We all know that they're just a bunch of incompetent programmers, but at least I respect them for giving us the opportunity to live in the universe.
Let's accept that they dont listen to us and that we have to live in this imperfect world.
With acceptance comes relief!


*goes back to his Zen temple for some more acceptance therapy after todays lousy hunt"

First of all, never speak of 'us', you're one person, it's arrogant to speak for a group, doesn't shine a good light on you. There is no 'us' you're speaking of since first of all I'm a part of the group of players, and you have no definition of how many people belong into the 'group' thinking the same as you versus the group thinking the same as me. So if my group is bigger, will you do the same then? Shut up and do as told? Responsibility and actions always come in two ways, otherwise it's just childish non-socialized behavior.

Yes, the bar for it has risen, not my goals changed, actually, my prime-goal is absolutely impossible to reach right now, it wasn't for the entire life of Entropia, while it has grown and flourished, up until now. So it has grown, but you take it away, why should I stay silent?

To 'being possible to profit' read the entire topic again for that please, you're ignoring my statements, therefore it's sadly not worth putting up a discussion further unless you take them into perspective.

And don't know why you react. I restated the thing you said and put it into the proper term for how it's being called psychologically. If that isn't what you like to hear then that's called 'denial'. Facts versus opinions, facts win.
If you want to make things better then point exactly out which points aren't good, and point out which points of the posts are good, take the time and effort instead of saying you do, that's different. I'm answering to every single post, to every single argument in this thread for a reason, to give the respect people deserve to everyone unless they actively state that they're not interested in it but only for attention, or just to speak against something.
And yes, it will, the alternative is shutting up and not talking about problems at all, and since discussion is a process of thinking, it's stopping the thinking, therefore the generation of solutions, and therefore any meaningful way of resolving existing problems. It's basic psychological knowledge, basic, learn it. It's important for your life.
What i'm doing is simply making it transparent instead of hiding things. I don't tell a beginner to stay when he tells me 'how can I hunt profitable in the future' because there is simply no way for me to see it. I tell a beginner how to make PED if they ask, I tell them where to go if they want specific materials, want to know about game mechanics. But I can only tell them 'I don't know if you should bother staying, I haven't found any way, if you don't either leave if you want to profit in a meaningful way which lets you pay for 2-3 meals in a restaurant a month.'
That's called being truthful versus deceptive. It's an active lie otherwise, and I'm not going down that road, far worse then telling it up-front instead of milking someone with wrong expectations, that's despiceable, appaling.

Yes, 2.0 was a strong shift, one from a 'global payout pool' to a 'personal payout pool' since all TT returns now are measured by the exact amount you put out, meaning it's impossible to diversify between someone who is extremely eco equipment vise versus someone who is absolutely horrible with it by exact 7% MU materials return. The other parts are playstyle and skills. Skills was never a factor before, and it's a bad one, giving an unfair reward to players just for simply being there longer instead of doing anything different actively, it comes with time. Playstyle is relevant as to not overkill, kill quickly, don't heal if possible and wear the right armor, simple as that.
If you do all that nicely as a new player you still can't profit permanently, as an old player you can barely. The amount of shrapnel returned has risen massively which is only good for MA (greedy move) and never for the playerbase for longer periods of time. Removing ammo would've been fine, adapting the system to no more no-looters as well, finished, the other things were added with adherent effects if taken apart piece by piece. Well, you need the ability to deduct mathematically which ones are positive and which negative, I have done that, you seemingly not yet, otherwise you wouldn't state wrong facts versus opinions.

As for the last part: could've been a simple example of before Loot 2.0, it's close-minded. Yes, I don't need to know the revenues from right now, I just want an example, if you can't or won't provide one it's the same as simply not giving one.

No, I'll sooner or later leave since there are options for other universes to life in, and those offer more, like I stated already, until the clear problems are solved, or at least something is done to try and remedy them there won't be any further deposits from my side, I actually regret for the first time depositing before returning and looking closely at the state of the game, would've saved me quite a bit. And unless before I don't recommend the game to other people anymore, the contrary at the moment if they see the marketing strategy like it is, I tell them to stay away since it's not true anymore, sorry, but I don't lie to my friends, they are worth more then that.
 
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