Because it's irrelevant for the tt-return matter.....
what's bad with crafting??
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Because it's irrelevant for the tt-return matter.....
Legends
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This gives me hope, thanks for sharing that information Piotr.
I think that the problem the OP is facing is that he is just a 'dilettante' crafter who thinks that he should be able to save money by crafting his amps himself, but it should be clear to most people that it isn't the case. The mere fact that there is such a thing as Quality Rating should be enough to make that clear. So unless you invest in a 100QR BP, and have maxed out the skills for that item, I would tend to believe that it won't be possible for an 'amateur' crafter to save money crafting his own items, whether that's guns, armor or mining gear.
I think that one of the fundamental principles of EU is that focus in one particular area is eventually rewarded and as such a player that focuses on crafting, like Ivelyne Stockhouse above, eventually gets rewarded. At 94.4% TT returns, the only thing that Ivelyne will need to ensure in order to turn a profit is that the markup on the items crafted is at least 6% highers than the markup on the ingredients used and he'll be in the green (profiting). That should become easier and easier to do as he becomes more and more experienced and knows and understands what sells and what people are willing to pay for it.
D-Class amps are actually very cheap amps and are made available on almost every planet's auction by professional crafters. The OP would be wise to leave the crafting to the professional crafters and just focus on mining if that is what he wants to specialize in.
Aside from the obvious skills and blueprints, to be a professional crafter you also need:
- Connections with miners and hunters so as to have a constant supply of materials at reasonable prices
- A distribution network for selling the items you craft (some only use the auction but would be wise to also sell to shop owners)
- A good understanding of what items are in demand and where
- A bank roll (I'd be willing to bet Auktuma probably has a bank roll over 200k ped at this point)
I own 5 shops now and I used to think that I could probably make more profit if I crafted the items myself but quickly realized that this actually not the case, so now I let the crafters craft and buy from them, it's the way it should be anyway and I applaud MA for making it that way.
So to sum up: don't be a dilettante, find your focus and invest time and money into it and win
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Atrax
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I realize the title of the thread is a little generic but the OP was pretty clear on what his issue was.
As I found out the other day while you're ready to insult other people you're not interested in the profession of crafting in the EU economy at all. You just want to auto-click whatever's cheap and flush your results in the TT.
Since the thread since the OP is about actual item success rates in crafting, I thought it might be relevant to ask you about your item success rates in the crafting runs you posted.
Why are you crafting an item that has consistent high demand, with MV in the 150 - 175% range for the last decade, and then selling it to the TT?
Why are you crafting items with MU in the 1 - 2x CPC range pretty consistently and then selling them to the TT?
Why are you crafting your largest (# clicks) runs with on items with no sales history or sign of market for over 1 year anyways?
Your own numbers recently posted in another thread show that without regard to cost per click, run size, timing, BP QR or any specific profession, one year of moderate/casual crafting has brought you TT returns of 95%. This is pretty decent for a casual player in any EU profession. It sounds like even without any booth or shopkeeper you should be easily paying for your game play.
If you want crafting as a straight TT game there's EP for you. TT in TT out no (well, fewer) worries.
And what do all your false assumptions have to with MA having made crafting worse when they started tempering with crafting and return are usually shit now? I'll tell you, nothing.
Something like 4,4k clicks only 77,67% would never happen before they started tempering with crafting.
Btw, your last 2 questions even show how inexperienced you are in crafting =)
What do you think where those winston table, shelves and so on BPs are coming from? Do you think people would just get them from the technician? =)
And yes, i can play thanks to all the MUs i get from selling my stuff, still, those shit returns over and over again are more frustration than anything else and made me already cancel some crafts i would have crafted if return would be 91+%...
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Haruto Rat
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last 10 1000 click runs on standard plate (maxed, 100 qr):
81.30
90.15
93.64
79.39
76.55
74.67
78.89
84.80
72.17
86.57
average: 81.81%
81.30
90.15
93.64
79.39
76.55
74.67
78.89
84.80
72.17
86.57
average: 81.81%
Atrax
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This is flatly not true.
I was dumping peds in the craft machine when you had to click every click and returns were still <50% on occasion. Especially on any run regardless of cost per click of under 50 - 100 clicks.
So you're playing successfully and all of this complaining and clouding up every crafting thread with complaints about your TT returns on small runs aren't stable?
Right last time you told me to stick to hunting threads. I'm pretty sure I have more crafting successes than you have failures TBH. There's no real counter in game but my 100k success achievement lit up sometime in 2015 and I'm hoping to see that 500k light up soon.
So I've crafted small to medium batches of junk for a very long time and a few 10k+ click runs on low end components or stuff like lesser elysia. You can look at my meager global history in that time and see that while I occasionally hit larger BPs or target BPs to loot for a minute I don't spend a lot of time chasing swirls.
Thanks for the lesson also on where BPs come from I always wondered how those discoveries got on my EL profile.
If you're ever on Ark stop by my shop for some BPs that you can't get from the technician. Because you know, that's one of the places people get them. While you're there you can also buy some of my mining loot and my hunting loot. And actually ATM some stuff I've crafted.
If you're actually doing so well what's with the endless complaints about how you want all volatility and/or subtlety removed from the profession?
If you actually have a point how is it you address any attempt to have a conversation with distracting sarcasm and personal attacks? There are actually people who are paying attention to more of what's going on than just how fast they can shovel PED into the TT hoping for, what then, a rare loot?
Is that why in the other thread you said you're not interested in TT profits, while you keep going on and on about TT returns?
The questions that I'm asking you in this thread based on the numbers that you posted so far are relevant to the health of the crafting profession in the current economy.
They're also relevant to your personal complaints since you're refusing to talk about anything but "average" "overall" numbers and TT returns. You're lumping together a bunch of separate avatar professions, all sizes of clicks, all everything just in a big mish-mash and then asking for MA to protect your bankroll and decrease volatility while you craft useless junk straight to the TT to fish for a silent global on a noob BP?
Meh. Just call me a noob again I guess and be done with it lol. Continue with random activities, continue with random results. None of what you are saying certainly has anything to do with improving your OVERALL returns
(which apparently aren't a problem?) or with the issues raised in the OP of this thread.
That must have been more than 4-5 years ago =)
Because in my time up untill they've changed crafting in december last year, i've never seen any 800+ click runs with less than 90% return, and i got shitloads of those runs. And 4+k clicks were never below 90%.
Changes they did from pre loot 2.0 to now:
1k click run you could expect 2 times 10 and 2 times 40 multis, now you can expect 4-5 times 10 multis.
Near successes were mostly 90% return, the chance of 90% return near success got reduced quite a lot and 50% return near successes got introduced.
Overall they reduced the minimum return you get out of a 1k click run. That's the issue.
What are you trying to say here? That you've got more crafting experience than i have, even though i may have done 2-4 times the amount of clicks that you have?
You are welcome, i'm always happy when i can help
I haven't said anywhere that i want all volatility to be removed, i said the minimum returns you get in a run are too low. There's a difference.
Would you really sit down spending 500 years to sell all the nallo ceiling lamps and by this needing 500 years to loot the BP for a furniture that gets you 200-5000 PED MU?
Because TT return play a significant role when it comes to getting losses or break even or profit with MU....
It's not healthy if you got to spend 300 PED (@81%return) to make an item that gets you 200 PED MU...
having to spend 150 PED (@~91% return) to make an item that gets you 200 PED MU, that is healthy for the economy....
it has always worked fine as long as the minimum return for a 1k click run was about 90% , once they've nerfed it to 81% it turned into a shitfest and killed quite many crafts and in the process ofc demand for hunted/mined materials. So their change did hurt the economy instead of helping it to grow. You need to see the bigger picture here.
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So the crafting META these days is crafting some thousand crafts of small junk craft and then switch to significantly bigger craft to get the bigger multis there and end up with 95% return?
Bad concept imo.
Bad concept imo.
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Darth Revan
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So the crafting META these days is crafting some thousand crafts of small junk craft and then switch to significantly bigger craft to get the bigger multis there and end up with 95% return?
Bad concept imo.
No, its go click EP on condition for a thousand clicks, then after click a limited BP on Quantity for 10-20 clicks and you will end up with around 80% of your limited clicks as items plus a few small globals/hofs.
So there's 2 ways. Both are kinda bad imo ^^
being forced to craft the same item 24/7 (like it used to be) and being forced to cross-craft is both bad.
crafting still needs some work... 81% or less return on full quantity in 600+ click runs is still happening way too often...
please change the 25% near successes to 40% near success and the 50% near success to 75% near success...
interestingly, condition crafting seems to be less volatile than quantity crafting now ><
edit: and now i have tocancel all the hunting material and mined materials orders i've put out to other players...
please change the 25% near successes to 40% near success and the 50% near success to 75% near success...
interestingly, condition crafting seems to be less volatile than quantity crafting now ><
edit: and now i have tocancel all the hunting material and mined materials orders i've put out to other players...
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it is maxed.. both on the skill side as well as the QR... and there's certainly something wrong, when quantity crafting results in 80-85% return pretty often while condition is 80-150%....
I've crafted all weekend on condition and did end up with 95% return, something i dream of when I do quantity crafting...
shouldn't quantity be the low risk and condition the high risk thing?
ninja-edit: i've tracked over 400k clicks, i'm pretty sure i got a very good picture of what crafting looks like...
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If I put in 10k PED and has a average Blueprint, can I break even on Crafting?
Darth Revan
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Depends on the BP as MU is a big factor in breaking even. If you craft something that you are just going to give to the TT machine, then no, you will lose PED....like all the professions, MA take their cut so your return is never 100% back, MU is where it counts!
mastermesh
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Most crafting is done just to TT stuff created... at least as the system is currently... There are lots of ways that could be changed... some of which have been discussed before in the wishlist section of the forums that Mindark typically doesn't read, perhaps?...
a few ideas previously discussed elsewhere....
crafted stuff sucks vs looted stuff of similar level, etc. There's a whole freaking line of Eamp blueprints that don't make crafters much since A101 type stuff is there that is so much better....
across the board it's like this, not just with amps, but with lots of well, everything...
There's little incentive for crafters to actually craft since what the end product is is useless tt fodder or stuff that in worth less than the cost of the materials to create it...
Buffs now exist... so potentially that could be one small way to fix this situation... simply make the buffs for crafted items better than the alternatives that exist in looted variations... and/or maybe remove looted variations from looting all together?..... in what way is finding best items in game out of dead animals in the wilderness etc. really helping the storyline about colonists using ingenuity and creativity to overcome a harsh environment?
there's been waves of creativity from Devs in creating the current crafting situation, and just like every other aspect of the game, ideas that started great got axed off by newer crap that went off in some other direction... so we have a lot of armor sets with no feet guards, a lot of old school weapons that max at level 100 that cannot compare with L crap introduced later, and that L stuff cannot compare with the even newer stuff like the stuff related to the garden estates, or even later than that, the armatrix junk... basically the entire system is turned upside down since older items get superseded by newer junk as old generations of stuff gets left in the dust... perhaps it's time to turn that around in some various ways...
neat stuff like the christmas gifts, etc. come out for free or cheaply yearly, but no crafted veration of that type of stuff exists? What about creating a blueprint for each gift type previously created be each planet?... perhaps as a 4th item that drops from the holidays instead of the regular 3 that we see on Calypso and Arkadia dropping regularly... what about user created items that are fully user generated with more options, as we see in some other mmos, etc.
Instances currently have some blueprints in places like the shop instances on Rocktropia... maybe more blueprints could be created for other instance types... Games like D&D online and Star Wars online allow players to actually create their own instances... something like that in Entropia could be interesting... especially now that players cannot do what they used to do with those type of storylines when they could drop items in the environment to do different types of little games, etc.
A component book from thule is rumored to have had a maximum tt of 1 pec or something similar... while most other bp books in game have a minimum tt of 1 ped? Why not change it so that the technisians offer all of the books to be 1 pec instead of 1 ped?... when you consider how many planets exist and how many books ar eon each, that ped value that is just sitting in books in inventory is a lot of wasted ped...
'universal' blueprints which are really just copies of calypso blueprints, loot on all planets, making it harder for crafters trying to expand their bleuprint collection to get blueprints they want on each planet... perhaps some fixes could be done for that issue so we don't keep looting the same darn bp over and over on each planet again and again that we already have tons of copies of?
Something Compets introduced was the idea of trinkets - crafted jewelry type things pets could wear... each with their own little buffs... this is something that hasn't been introduced in to Entropia proper yet, but maybe it can be?
Lots of possible ideas in crafting are out there... the idea of factories never really was introduced in game before although it's been promised many years... daily crafting missions exist on Monria but not other planets... there's literally tons of ideas in various threads on these forums that completely go ignored, etc.
a few ideas previously discussed elsewhere....
crafted stuff sucks vs looted stuff of similar level, etc. There's a whole freaking line of Eamp blueprints that don't make crafters much since A101 type stuff is there that is so much better....
across the board it's like this, not just with amps, but with lots of well, everything...
There's little incentive for crafters to actually craft since what the end product is is useless tt fodder or stuff that in worth less than the cost of the materials to create it...
Buffs now exist... so potentially that could be one small way to fix this situation... simply make the buffs for crafted items better than the alternatives that exist in looted variations... and/or maybe remove looted variations from looting all together?..... in what way is finding best items in game out of dead animals in the wilderness etc. really helping the storyline about colonists using ingenuity and creativity to overcome a harsh environment?
there's been waves of creativity from Devs in creating the current crafting situation, and just like every other aspect of the game, ideas that started great got axed off by newer crap that went off in some other direction... so we have a lot of armor sets with no feet guards, a lot of old school weapons that max at level 100 that cannot compare with L crap introduced later, and that L stuff cannot compare with the even newer stuff like the stuff related to the garden estates, or even later than that, the armatrix junk... basically the entire system is turned upside down since older items get superseded by newer junk as old generations of stuff gets left in the dust... perhaps it's time to turn that around in some various ways...
neat stuff like the christmas gifts, etc. come out for free or cheaply yearly, but no crafted veration of that type of stuff exists? What about creating a blueprint for each gift type previously created be each planet?... perhaps as a 4th item that drops from the holidays instead of the regular 3 that we see on Calypso and Arkadia dropping regularly... what about user created items that are fully user generated with more options, as we see in some other mmos, etc.
Instances currently have some blueprints in places like the shop instances on Rocktropia... maybe more blueprints could be created for other instance types... Games like D&D online and Star Wars online allow players to actually create their own instances... something like that in Entropia could be interesting... especially now that players cannot do what they used to do with those type of storylines when they could drop items in the environment to do different types of little games, etc.
A component book from thule is rumored to have had a maximum tt of 1 pec or something similar... while most other bp books in game have a minimum tt of 1 ped? Why not change it so that the technisians offer all of the books to be 1 pec instead of 1 ped?... when you consider how many planets exist and how many books ar eon each, that ped value that is just sitting in books in inventory is a lot of wasted ped...
'universal' blueprints which are really just copies of calypso blueprints, loot on all planets, making it harder for crafters trying to expand their bleuprint collection to get blueprints they want on each planet... perhaps some fixes could be done for that issue so we don't keep looting the same darn bp over and over on each planet again and again that we already have tons of copies of?
Something Compets introduced was the idea of trinkets - crafted jewelry type things pets could wear... each with their own little buffs... this is something that hasn't been introduced in to Entropia proper yet, but maybe it can be?
Lots of possible ideas in crafting are out there... the idea of factories never really was introduced in game before although it's been promised many years... daily crafting missions exist on Monria but not other planets... there's literally tons of ideas in various threads on these forums that completely go ignored, etc.
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Darth Revan
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I don't know when the last time you went crafting but this is utter BS. Armatrix weapons and amps, new armor plates, pre-amped mining finders, just to name a few things. Many of the component BP's are now actually worth MU because they are useful now where before they were TT food. Sure there are still a ton of BP's that are completely useless, but crafting is much better than it used to be. If you think crafting is just done to TT stuff, then your crafting the wrong things and are just gambling (ie. Explosive Projectiles).
Edit:
Yes Eamp BP's are utter crap to craft, but then you should not be crafting these, switch to the new (L) amp BP's...those things are useful to hunters.
Xavier_Jr
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I did 1 click and failed...crafting is broken!!!!
Yes!!!! Hehehehe
yeeck
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Usually I craft EP 1, EP 2, simple I, leathers, stones BP... those are cheap and easy to find materials to craft.
I has been saving peds and materials to craft NeoPsion Kenetic Amp 1, took me 6 months before I start crafting during Christmas. 100x crafing, overall crafting lost -38 peds out total 285 peds spent. Only get two full TT 5 peds successfully craft.
At the end, sigh~~~ nothing bad about crafting, nothing bad at all... just me disappointed
I has been saving peds and materials to craft NeoPsion Kenetic Amp 1, took me 6 months before I start crafting during Christmas. 100x crafing, overall crafting lost -38 peds out total 285 peds spent. Only get two full TT 5 peds successfully craft.
At the end, sigh~~~ nothing bad about crafting, nothing bad at all... just me disappointed
Evey
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Usually I craft EP 1, EP 2, simple I, leathers, stones BP... those are cheap and easy to find materials to craft.
I has been saving peds and materials to craft NeoPsion Kenetic Amp 1, took me 6 months before I start crafting during Christmas. 100x crafing, overall crafting lost -38 peds out total 285 peds spent. Only get two full TT 5 peds successfully craft.
At the end, sigh~~~ nothing bad about crafting, nothing bad at all... just me disappointed
If it took you 6 months to gather for a 285 PED run, this game is not for you, imo.
Later Edit.
A clarification might be needed - f2p is perfectly fine, gathering resources is also perfectly fine, but, to get 285 ped worth of sweat (I had to ask an expert - ty zelda) in 6 months, it's like 3 hours a day and you should not waste that long hard work in 100 cliks!!!!
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Depends if he plays f2p , i've started with fruits & stones and it took me several months as well to get some okay amount of peds for crafting (EP1).
Evey
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You gather shit, sweat and fruits for 6 months, to do a 100 clicks run, 2.85 PED per click. What are your expectations? You gather shit for 6 months to gather an OK amount of clicks for EP1, you're getting a bit lucky and when you're running out of luck you blame it on the system. I hope this approach doesn't get too common among players in a strategy game like EU...
huh? that was 4 years ago. back then, when crafting was fine...
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yeeck
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Not on sib bp and not longterm, QR CAN mean shit on nonsib BPs, but QR (and skills) is everything on SIB bps
GoNi
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LOL there is fairly big difference in a 50% CoS (QR0) and a 95% CoS (QR100).
Where I agree is that QR is missleading info, as it is not the REAL CoS.
95% just means you have only 5% failed chance, but it could also be 80% near success on a bad run.
Agreed, CoS -~15 seems to be the worst case return percentage you may encounter in a 1000 click run...
Agreed, in the long run , 100+k clicks, it doesn't matter.
Skills & Multiplier is the most important thing on SIB BPs. i have sub QR30 SIB BPs which have almost 100% tt-return...
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