what's bad with crafting??

So first of all I don't care about any of you people coming along saying 'LOL IT'S 19 CLICKS' in many cases, resources DO NOT EXIST or cannot be afforded to produce more, you could be looking at a week's paycheck in a high paying country, or a year or more in a less fortunate economy, for someone to have the money to do a long run.

You are simply someone with money or grand delusion who wishes to use his economic position or ideals in order to force change from happening because you happen to have a few blueprints that in the long run are overall profitable and you don't want to interrupt your measly ped stream, at the cost of the entire community.

And even then, the return rates are nauseating, so volume of ped cycled has gone to shit.
Our markups have gone to shit.


The problem with the economy is this: Crafting needs an overhaul!
Why?

When we be GENEROUS by using average from 10k component click runs, we have 33-42% long term success rate at the absolute maximum, and about 90-95% TT returns including large multipliers, so let's be optimists in our math even:

This means markup is multiplied on the input for the crafter by 3x in order to produce one item from a 10k click run, and in the short runs 10x or more.

Mindark also takes at least 10% of the peds cycled long term, and up to 90% or more short term, and puts the large multiplier pool which drops 0% markup garbage, thus making the effective overall markup earned from the crafters shit!!
Then, they take their cut of 5-10% TT...
BOTH OF THESE GET MULTIPLIED BY THE CHANCE OF SUCCESS OF ACTUAL ITEMS!!! 33% means that 3-10x multiplier on incoming markup becomes....oh dear..... 9-30 TIMES THE MARKUP. 101% even becomes a deadly 130% in effective markup to make a product.

None of the above is sustainable even with adjustment within its current functions.


And to all of you complaining about nanocubes, nanocubes and 101% high volume materials dilute this madness on input. Crafters need them!


I will be making a post shortly about the major issues with the crafting system myself.
 
If it took you 6 months to gather for a 285 PED run, this game is not for you, imo.


Later Edit.
A clarification might be needed - f2p is perfectly fine, gathering resources is also perfectly fine, but, to get 285 ped worth of sweat (I had to ask an expert - ty zelda) in 6 months, it's like 3 hours a day and you should not waste that long hard work in 100 cliks!!!!

That is horribly rude.
This game instead needs to cater to the whole, and not just elitist few who have a large bankroll.

The little guy should be gathering resources, buying them off his friends skilling, and crafting them into components and little things that bigger players need to make bigger things.

His gameplay SHOULD be gathering up stuff and profitably making little gadgets for people around his level. That should not be mr uber's job to do everything and take all the money.

And before you go calling me noober, I've been here since before 2002.

The middle of the road player should be gathering large bulk TT items that can be sold for effective markups of 105-108%, nothing worth the time of someone so high and mighty as you.

The elite should be left to gather the rare resources that are hard to come by and carry high values more often, and should be allowed to make some markup, but in no way should they ever get some view that they are the only part of the economic system that is relevant.

That is when imbalance comes.
That is like what much of the world is dealing with as corporate companies grab everything up and hog all the resources, but forget they are removing their own foundations.
 
So first of all I don't care about any of you people coming along saying 'LOL IT'S 19 CLICKS' in many cases, resources DO NOT EXIST or cannot be afforded to produce more, you could be looking at a week's paycheck in a high paying country, or a year or more in a less fortunate economy, for someone to have the money to do a long run.

there's also 3 other issues
1.) getting 10k clicks of a L BP... sure, for WW BPs that may not be an issue, but try amps, tools or furniture...
2.) sales, sure you could do a 10k click run of an item that sells maybe 4 times a year, but you won't be able to sell 4k units of it, that would just take 1k years. So it just doesn't make sense to run a large amount of clicks..
3.) even with 10k click runs, there's a decent chance that the return is just shit.
 
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there's also 3 other issues
1.) getting 10k clicks of a L BP... sure, for WW BPs that may not be an issue, but try amps, tools or furniture...
2.) sales, sure you could do a 10k click run of an item that sells maybe 4 times a year, but you won't be able to sell 4k units of it, that would just take 1k years. So it just doesn't make sense to run a large amount of clicks..
3.) even with 10k click runs, there's a decent chance that the return is just shit.


Just let you know that, I love your fighting spirit / comments in forum (about crafting).
I wonder where is Henry? He should be coming in here to give you some supports ;)
 
fortunately wasn't clicking one of the big crafts (15-30 PED per click), that would have been quite a desaster with all those ~25% & ~50% return near successes, there's usually way too many of those...

shtahjiu.jpg

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oh and btw, all those low return near successes, force the crafter to buy the materials for pretty low MU... simply because more raw materials are eaten away per success...
 
back in 2018 i was super noob crafter, its 2019 i went up a bit now im just noob but now im laughing at OP how silly this thread can be ...holy fuck

i can say this , i used to click 400-500 clicks runs on level 5 (30-40k peds residue runs) and sometimes in first 100 clicks i used to get low success like 25-30% but then it was going up with every 100, since i started crafting more and more decided to stop with those low runs , yes you need a lot of budget for it

End of story , nothing is wrong with crafting , your budget is the problem.
 
End of story , nothing is wrong with crafting , your budget is the problem.

We all told him over and over but like the vast majority playing this game none care to listen.They have own theory about the game and nobody can change that which is fine.
BANKROLL MANAGEMENT repeat after me : Bankroll management, ok one more time : Bankroll management.
 
back in 2018 i was super noob crafter, its 2019 i went up a bit now im just noob but now im laughing at OP how silly this thread can be ...holy fuck

bloody hell, if you're that new to crafting you should stop smart assing... i'm crafting since 2015 and you obviously only know loot 2.0 crafting and have no fucking clue how it was before loot 2.0....
 
We all told him over and over but like the vast majority playing this game none care to listen.They have own theory about the game and nobody can change that which is fine.
BANKROLL MANAGEMENT repeat after me : Bankroll management, ok one more time : Bankroll management.

No: don't pay that much MU anymore for raw materials, that's the solution if MA increases the raw material comsumption per success.
 
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bloody hell, if you're that new to crafting you should stop smart assing... i'm crafting since 2015 and you obviously only know loot 2.0 crafting and have no fucking clue how it was before loot 2.0....

im watching what are you crafting and laughing my ass off , keep it up :laugh:
 
yeah keep laughing when you're missing 90+% crafting info, you're so delusional :laugh:

have a good one bro, one day ill be a big crafter like you
 
yeah keep laughing when you're missing 90+% crafting info, you're so delusional :laugh:

The only one delusional is the only complaining the game is not working properly.
 
The only one delusional is the only complaining the game is not working properly.

Not that the game isn't working properly, that crafting is fucked up, since loot 2.0 and mining is even worse than crafting since loot 2.0!
 
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Not that the game isn't working properly, that crafting is fucked up, since loot 2.0 and mining is even worse than crafting since loot 2.0!

Then stop crafting.My bet is that you are not working properly based on a rigid system and you are completely clueless how to interact with such system.
 
Then stop crafting.My bet is that you are not working properly based on a rigid system and you are completely clueless how to interact with such system.

yeah right, because MA never makes mistakes and always deliver a bug free game right....

i mean it goes like this:
250 clicks simple II conductors, about 1 PED loss per click in average (it's a 2.4 PED per click craft), 1 60 PED global in those 250 clicks... and don't get me started on sleipnir crafting where the average loss per click was even higher and no global happened in several hundred clicks...

as it stands, roughly a times 100 multiplier is needed about every 125-150 clicks, and what happens usually? 2-4 times 5 to times 30 Multipliers in 1000 clicks... way too small, way too little multis...

observed over about 400k clicks...
 
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yeah right, because MA never makes mistakes and always deliver a bug free game right....

i mean it goes like this:
250 clicks simple II conductors, about 1 PED loss per click in average (it's a 2.4 PED per click craft), 1 60 PED global in those 250 clicks... and don't get me started on sleipnir crafting where the average loss per click was even higher and no global happened in several hundred clicks...

as it stands, roughly a times 100 multiplier is needed about every 125-150 clicks, and what happens usually? 2-4 times 5 to times 30 Multipliers in 1000 clicks... way too small, way too little multis...

observed over about 400k clicks...


try 250000 clicks and let me know your result.If you are 95% all good.
tell me when you are done.
Mindark make mistakes but their system works and gets balanced where you should be at at all times.
 
try 250000 clicks and let me know your result.If you are 95% all good.

I'm not, that's the issue...

Total – Crafting 304961,57PED in 287669,53459 PED out 94,33% return 568364clicks
That was when i last tracked, now it's even more clicks with even lower return percentage..
 
I'm not, that's the issue...

Total – Crafting 304961,57PED in 287669,53459 PED out 94,33% return 568364clicks
That was when i last tracked, now it's even more clicks with even lower return percentage..

If you are not done then its a bankroll management.
if your result is not 95% or similar your math is wrong
If you are not 95% and your math is not accurate you can't make a proper tt result.
If you can make a proper result and your math is accurate your employees are stealing from you.
You and you are the only one responsible for your result to get better.Work on yourself.Educate yourself and use fucking fundamentals to improve your game play.
If you still believe system is rigged the fucking leave the game.You are helpless.
Mindark is your dealer , he just split cards.Work on your edge to beat your competitors.
 
if your result is not 95% or similar your math is wrong
If you are not 95% and your math is not accurate you can't make a proper tt result.

right, my precise tracking has to be wrong... it's soooo impossible that the game simply doesn't play out the way you'd expect... the issue is all those 25% & 50% return near successes and only a times 5-30 multi dripping out every now and then...

but besides the TT-return issue, there's another issue with all those 25% & 50% return near successes, compared to near successes being mostly 90% near successes, it forces me as a crafter to pay less MU to the hunters/miners...
because those low return near successes increase the MU costs per crafted item, if i'd still pay the old MU... don't worry, i'm still not loss, i adjusted the MUs for my materials from 115-130% (before loot 2.0 changes happened) down to 104-110%...
and this overshooting a little on every success is absolutely worthless when crafting L & UL items...
 
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right, my precise tracking has to be wrong... it's soooo impossible that the game simply doesn't play out the way you'd expect... the issue is all those 25% & 50% return near successes and only a times 5-30 multi dripping out every now and then...

but besides the TT-return issue, there's another issue with all those 25% & 50% return near successes, compared to near successes being mostly 90% near successes, it forces me as a crafter to pay less MU to the hunters/miners...
because those low return near successes increase the MU costs per crafted item, if i'd still pay the old MU... don't worry, i'm still not loss, i adjusted the MUs for my materials from 115-130% (before loot 2.0 changes happened) down to 104-110%...
and this overshooting a little on every success is absolutely worthless when crafting L & UL items...

I'm not even worried because I know the system works just as it should be.
I'm just pointing out that your expectation are derailed based on personal experiences.
Please re-calibrate yourself with the game and stop interfering Mindark with player based markup.
If its the case complete the mentor-disciple program and this time with someone outside rookie channel/discord channel.
And no you will not get a uber if you complain here, that's just stupid comments from stupid people who can't explain how game and loot mechanics works.
 
If its the case complete the mentor-disciple program and this time with someone outside rookie channel/discord channel.

Why would i do that?ah right, because you're deluded and you're making it only personal and you think you're the only one knowing how to play the game...

and now please stop making it personal/ad hominem trolling and just stick to frigging topic and the way crafting currently is... There's quite some issues with it..
 
Why would i do that?ah right, because you're deluded and you're making it only personal and you think you're the only one knowing how to play the game...

and now please stop making it personal/ad hominem trolling and just stick to frigging topic and the way crafting currently is... There's quite some issues with it..

You do that because you are either biased or clueless on how the system works and you did not study the fundamentals or you are can't have proper tools to sustain that system.
Most likely you are part of a "emotion driven community, tight community that have let's say common grounds about certain aspects of the game"
I'm not replying to your person because we never spoke, I just reply to a degree that someone who is genuinely interested about the game can get a second thought about this game in a sense that we all are major factor in how we can control the outcome of our game-play based on how we analyze and study the game mechanics.
I will make it less complicated for the rest saying : your results are directly proportionate to the input you are putting into the system and the longevity of it, and of course like any other food you can put some salt and pepper based on your taste.
 
You do that because you are either biased or clueless or how the system works and you did not study the fundamentals or you are can't have proper tools to sustain that system.

you have posted nothing at all about the system or crafting at all so far, all you did was some ego-centric ad hominem trolling.

I will make it less complicated for the rest saying : your results are directly proportionate to the input you are putting into the system and the longevity of it, and of course like any other food you can put some salt and pepper based on your taste.

wow, you're a real genius... i would never have figured out that statistic basics on my own... /sarcasm...
more serious, of course your ego writes again.

btw, i wish it would play out like that... but the past 600k clicks... well.. it didn't... don't you think about 600k clicks should be enough to be near the target return?
 
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you have posted nothing at all about the system or crafting at all so far, all you did was some ego-centric ad hominem trolling.



wow, you're a real genius... i would never have figured out that statistic basics on my own... /sarcasm...
more serious, of course your ego writes again.

btw, i wish it would play out like that... but the past 600k clicks... well.. it didn't... don't you think about 600k clicks should be enough to be near the target return?

600k clicks is more than enough to have a clear statement in front of your eyes (that's if you do a proper test and you are complete honest with yourself)
The only question I have would be : how would I know you are not lying and are not biased in a hope you are expecting something in return, well I don't know and this is the reason all tt returns logs and similar posts are complete garbage and I don't trust any of that period and it doesn't matter who post them.I only trust what developer is saying and nothing else.
If someone keep the log for himself to keep track of something or like to discover a pattern or simply he is geek that's perfectly fine.Once you try to do that in a public manner indubitably and indirectly you are going to implant a lot of ideas people's brain.People are weak and believe all sorts of stupid shit, either because they are weak and dumb either because their heart believe what their eyes just seen.
 
Just have to say it, this thread was maybe not the best choice of places to troll. Trolling is a venerable art form, and this is quite far from representing a paragon of the art. :lolup::bull:
 
I don't. You tell me why the fuck are you complaining 24/7 and you don't stop?

because they made matters worse, may not have been intentional, but it happened and after 1.5 years they still haven't adressed the issues. 24/7 is not true, i was playing other games for the past 1-2 months and didn't bother with entropia ;)

I only trust what developer is saying and nothing else.

I don't, because i know bugs can happen, that's why i test if that's what the devs are saying is actually true. Their statement "loot 2.0 was hunting only" unfortunately is definately false.
 
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