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Easter Mayhem 2018 Results

lethal said:
Would love to know what you mean by this. I can't imagine you're trying to generalize statements people have made about an entirely different topic and lump them into this one. That would be a pretty arrogant to make assumptions on something you have very limited knowledge of. Based on seeing your forum posts, that is your specialty though.

Gratz to all winners, and I'm curious to see what becomes of the people who feel they've been wrongly disqualified.
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MA have put the list of who were disqualified, now there are people saying those people are cheating and then there are those defending them saying they want proof. It would have been better for MA to just not list them.
Now without proof, we cannot know who cheated and who did not, all we can do is speculate. Who do you believe? MA or the player or their friends? Some people will see the list and never trade or do business with those who were disqualified....yet we still can't say for sure if they cheated or not....so its exactly what i said...a perfect example of why this shouldn't be allowed on PCF (and why it normally isn't according to the rules)....people will be wrongly crucified and others who deserve it may get a free pass from the community.

Regarding your other comment about me making assumptions with limited knowledge, I could say the same for many of your posts as well. So please keep your personal attuitude to me aside and just deal with the facts.
 
Darth Revan said:
MA have put the list of who were disqualified, now there are people saying those people are cheating and then there are those defending them saying they want proof. It would have been better for MA to just not list them.
Now without proof, we cannot know who cheated and who did not, all we can do is speculate. Who do you believe? MA or the player or their friends? Some people will see the list and never trade or do business with those who were disqualified....yet we still can't say for sure if they cheated or not....so its exactly what i said...a perfect example of why this shouldn't be allowed on PCF (and why it normally isn't according to the rules)....people will be wrongly crucified and others who deserve it may get a free pass from the community.

Regarding your other comment about me making assumptions with limited knowledge, I could say the same for many of your posts as well. So please keep your personal attuitude to me aside and just deal with the facts.
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I completely agree with this post.

MA has publicly placed a shadow on the character of all these players with no explanation as to their crime. I expect most of them have done nothing wrong at all. No proof, no foul. This is a huge failure on MA's part.

If you cannot talk about the individual cases, you missed the memo when you posted that they were DQed. You already let it out of the barn.

(BTW, this is why this forum has a "No Name-Shame" rule which doesn't seem to apply to MA)
 
Sionkiewicz said:
MA has publicly placed a shadow on the character of all these players with no explanation as to their crime. I expect most of them have done nothing wrong at all. No proof, no foul. This is a huge failure on MA's part.
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I partially disagree. The no-name rule is dumb and I am only here because I don't have an alternative as rich in info as this forum. But such discussions should happen instead of keeping them under the carpet. Entropia is full to the brim of cover-ups, favoritism, rumours and rules applied unevenly. It is, in my opinion, a step in the right direction to publicly point that rules should be obeyed. This should come however hand-in-hand with very clear rules.

People who would "crucify" respective players are just self-appointed moral guardians, but such guardians are anyway morons and they would be morons with or without reason.

And by the way, this is not about a "crime". This is about faulting the rules of a competition. Got kicked out. End of story.

As for the stance on details, I also completely disagree with MA. Once MA opened the stories, they should give some details and an explanation of their choice. Surely plainly explaining an exploit is not a good idea, to not give ideas to those inventive people who always abund in EU. However, there is a world of difference between someone (1) using a broken mechanic of focus of mobs provoked by an unrelated event as was described by Maiden on forum, despite godam warnings in the godam clientloader and (2) someone for example aggroing mobs and sustaining decay but not killing all the waves. (1) is an exploit, (2) is borderline. Yea, cause for disqualifying, but not much an exploit as long as there was no rule saying "all waves should be killed" (as dumb as it might sound). The point was to keep the core alive, not to kill the mobs, killing them was a bonus expressed in mtokens and boxes.

It is entirely up to MA to pick rules and to pick ways of enforcing, is their game. But given that their game is on our money, the arbitrarism must observe a fine balance.

P.S.: MA, please legitimize avatar trading and make it transparent. Make buyers change the name of the ava and erase the FL. Is that simple. The more players over a certain threshold of skillpoints, the less chances anyone would be insane enough to use ESIs to transfer, say, 400k or smth. It is not pleasant to see sudden activity of avatars who for sure are not anymore in posession of original owners. And is not pleasant to see selective enforcing of rules, because by your rules avatar trading is forbidden. Change the rules if they are anachronic, but do something.
 
Putting out the names of the people who are disqualified is simply disgusting, can't say anything else for it. Yes, people should stand 'above' judging them since the reasoning might be wrong for DQing them, but let's be clear here, they won't.
So, major mistake by MA. Either open up the whole information or keep the whole information disclosed, half-way isn't good for anyone, shines an extremely bad light - once more - on MA.

Also, 'low kill amount' compared to time. Is this an exploit? Why so? Was it ever discussed that it is? No? Don't DQ people for doing it then.

Otherwise: Don't DQ people without proof. Getting even a single person out of it because falsely accused is unacceptable, absolutely. Mistakes can be made, but you better be darn sure it is the case of some actual exploit which is known and intentional, an actual case of cheating or breaking the ToS.
 
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Kiting is not required and pulling mobs out and running them in circles defeats the spirit of the competition and unfortunately it feels like many have forgotten that.

As for annihilation, I suspect that abandoning and restarting repeatedly was not well received. I suspect also those who got lucky with 5k drops who did not make a token effort to hunt the remainder of the event may also have been DQed as it triggered some of the measures they were using, as rudimentary as those measure were (ie, being well below the average kill count). Again, this goes back to the spirit of the competition.

That's the trouble with these MA events. They are so much about sportsmanlike competition but they should realize by now that that simply isn't going to happen. So better to stick with the same, generic, simple events and competitions and put strict conditions in the system and leave it be.

Side note: Why not make the defense event continuously spawn waves and require a certain amount be killed before it progresses to the next wave counter, and then base the winning score on what round/wave players got to?
 
Are you serious guys ?

So much time that players wants MA to do someting against cheaters in this game, and now they do it, it's not good again ? :scratch2:

About to tell their names, it's good IMO, this is how every sports works, you know who cheated and who is DQ, players wants to know who is cheating.
One don't want shame ? He should not try to cheat... :ahh:

I agree that to accuse someone whithout any proof can be wrong.
But you know whose thread is it right ?
It's Mindark... The peoples running the events, running this game, so they do have proof... :wise:

That said, nobody's perfect, and a mistake can hapen.
If it's hapened here (but I doubt it), they will for sure repair it.

Anyway you noticed that all DQ players are in lowest categories, right ?
Most of them probably created an account on purpose for the event to cheat.
And what they will do, is to create a new one for the next event.
So please MA, continue to give the names of cheaters, then we will maybe have less and less cheaters in this game.
For all events, and out of events also, in the whole game, would be nice. :smash:
 
Gratz to the winners and good move with the DQ MA :wtg:
 
Grats to winners, and glad to see some action towards cheaters, if indeed valid.

I do wonder though if any of the obvious cheaters that didn't bother to place would have access next year as well.

It seems to me there were much heavier abusers who may have gotten away with it, will still be able to abuse (and whatever goodies they scored due to it) while questionable abusers got disproportionate consequence.

The clear problem this year is shared armor.

While we cant see the gear used, I am willing to bet that a large % of the pm tokens went to people with the same singular supremacy set passed around over and over and over.


Xen said:
How about once any item enters a Mayhem instance it gets locked to that avatar for the remainder of the event.

This way people who actually spend money on gear don't get beat by five other players using the same borrowed gear.
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Fantastic idea

I feel bad for the new players and for the game really, that supremacy could even be used in cat 1, let alone all of them....its just ridiculous and horrible event planning.

They did a great job with the dps and hp restictions,

Though the profs were bad, I would have done it again but I leveled past 105 and had to chip out just to continue for the last 9 hours. Which really sucked bad on my ped card.

I was afraid with a good score in Defence that I might lose it going to 10 for annihilation, so lots of lost revenue for MA, and not as many boxes for me.


gz to winners, and please consider an armor restriction, like what xen sugests...for the sake of all players.
 
Easy fix in defense, if mobs ONLY target is to destroy the target and don't aggro the avatar shooting them then you have to kill them all and armor does not matter, after all it's not yourself you need to defend, its the thing in the middle :)


Eli said:
Kiting is not required and pulling mobs out and running them in circles defeats the spirit of the competition and unfortunately it feels like many have forgotten that.

As for annihilation, I suspect that abandoning and restarting repeatedly was not well received. I suspect also those who got lucky with 5k drops who did not make a token effort to hunt the remainder of the event may also have been DQed as it triggered some of the measures they were using, as rudimentary as those measure were (ie, being well below the average kill count). Again, this goes back to the spirit of the competition.

That's the trouble with these MA events. They are so much about sportsmanlike competition but they should realize by now that that simply isn't going to happen. So better to stick with the same, generic, simple events and competitions and put strict conditions in the system and leave it be.

Side note: Why not make the defense event continuously spawn waves and require a certain amount be killed before it progresses to the next wave counter, and then base the winning score on what round/wave players got to?
Click to expand...
 
Eli said:
Kiting is not required and pulling mobs out and running them in circles defeats the spirit of the competition and unfortunately it feels like many have forgotten that.
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I'd bet that almost everyone is running around with a lot of mobs on them towards the end of their runs when they become overwhelmed, just trying to draw mobs off the data interceptor for as long as possible until death or destruction.
 
Xen said:
I'd bet that almost everyone is running around with a lot of mobs on them towards the end of their runs when they become overwhelmed, just trying to draw mobs off the data interceptor for as long as possible until death or destruction.
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Exactly, by the end of it I was running around with tons of mobs on me, but by the time that happened it fail cascaded rather quickly. I was killing what I was capable of killing and a combination of my killing and defending the core meant that I would have a realistic average of kills by the time I reach a point of no return where I'm just scrapping for seconds.

There is really no good way to explain someone who runs mobs around in circles....
 
Eli said:
Kiting is not required and pulling mobs out and running them in circles defeats the spirit of the competition and unfortunately it feels like many have forgotten that.
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I couldn't disagree more with this comment.

I think the spirit of the competition comes from being able to maneuver around the middle while trailing a bunch of mobs behind you (towards the very end of course). This was mostly skill based and had less to do with gear than the other CAT in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, gear was important, but I feel like personal skill played a big role in being able to achieve those extra minutes.

Were there a lot of people not kiting the mobs?

I guess I just assumed this was the way the Defense Cat was intended to be ran. No one told me to do it, I felt it was rather obvious. Not being able to draw aggro from the mobs would just make it another DPS competition. At least with drawing aggro you needed armor, HP, run speed, strategy & good aim. The Annihilation CAT felt a lot more like a DPS competition -- so it was really refreshing to be able to run the Defense CAT.

The reason I feel like it had a LOT to do with skill was because my time kept improving the more I did it. It wasn't based on luck. I would use the same gear over and over and little by little improve my time. The rest of the factors pretty much stayed the same. I was able to add 12-13 minutes to my time by toying around with the mode multiple times. That added time came as a result of me playing it slightly different each time and had very little to do with luck or DPS.

I didn't borrow any armor from anyone. I bought Perseus (L) from Auktuma's shop and slapped some Amour Plate 2 (L)'s into it and called it good. I had a good weapon no doubt, but towards the end I was able to kite mobs for 10-15 minutes, I'm not even sure because it was so intense the last 30 minutes I was unable to even watch the timer.

I had a ton of fun playing this mode and hope to see more skill based modes like this in the future. I'm certain all the top placement times used a similar strategy to mine. There came a point where my gun just stopped killing the mobs before new waves came. I was not about to just let them destroy the center so I started kiting them -- this to me, seems like good solid strategy, and encouraged the spirit of the competition.
 
Ludvig|MindArk said:
This was an oversight, and has now been corrected. Annihilation Category 2 Prizes have been updated.
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How about us that completed the 20 hours in category 5 that didn't ahve our score posted even though we scored more than 14000 points?


Awaiting an update to see why some avatars didn't get their name posted at all, which is weird considering you have started naming and shaming (which is against the forum rules, lol) ......


What a mess of an event this has been :laugh:
 
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Gz to all the winners, and thx to MA for a nice event and for hanging the cheaters out.
I did compete in Cat 8 but only got 3999 points. lol
 
Firstly, gratz to all the winners.

Major applaud for MA doing the naming/shaming. We need them to do this for all sorts of things to act as a future deterrent.

However, via support case if it gets decided that the avatar DQ'd was done so without any rationale then i definitely expect a post by MA saying so over here. Dealing with the issue can happen over support for privacy reasons but the results should be posted publicly so those who were unfairly DQ'd and named do not have a tarnished reputation for no fault of there's.

Also MA do need to change the system to encourage people to skill up rather then chip down. As such i expect balancing of rewards to promote that.
 
mastermesh said:

Wonder about upper categories... hmmm....
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Wait... Are you saying that MA is favoring big depositors ?

What an heresy !.. :cdevil:

Anyway, this is in my first post on this thread:

Still weird there were cheaters only in lowest cat..
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And this is from what I posted 3 weeks ago:

- The first to do for sure is to fix possible exploits in these events, and PUNISH cheaters (no matter who they are, and whatever the huge amount of money they put ingame, they accepted the rules)
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(https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...3301-Fair-Mayhem-Events&p=3637680#post3637680)

But I thought that to encourage some works against cheaters could be a good first step.
Cause making equal the rich and the poor is a pretty hard work...
Some peoples have tried it since money exists, they did not succeed. :money:
 
I applaud Swedish competence!

1. - There was no rule about killing 5 or 20 hours, it's about the points and since you are not competent enough or do not have logs to prove otherwise, you assume anyone who killed less than x mobs in 20 hours, were cheating.

2. There was no rule about kiting the mobs on defense, so anyone who did not kill x amount of mobs in y amount of time, were cheating.

Don't really bother with other incompetent shit you do with those events.

Ludwig, do you have any QA at all? Do you have any coding/testing skill at the office? I mean with the crap your office produces, you are only alive because you are running online casino and have some hardcore addicts keeping you afloat. What a fucking disgrace.

Dear incompetent Mindark employee, go support your company and buy some deeptokens, the whole ordeal looks like a fucking joke. Then again, you are the joke.
 
Xen said:
How about once any item enters a Mayhem instance it gets locked to that avatar for the remainder of the event.

This way people who actually spend money on gear don't get beat by five other players using the same borrowed gear.
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haha..
are you trying to be funny?? you realize that rule would hurt your soc the most? that would be the end of entropy.
 
Bertha Bot said:
Solo Defense
... Disqualified participants are also banned from winning prizes in any future Mayhem events.
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- MA, this seems a little harsh. You could apply this penalty maybe after 2 times caught cheating.

- Now, regarding "cheating" itself. You should have stated in the rules of the event what you consider cheating. If people couldnt borrow high end armors for low Categories, that should have been stated in the rules.

- Also, since you made public the people that were disqualified, you should also make public the reason why they were disqualified. That would prevent much of the confusion and drama that is going on now.

Note: I am not one of the cheaters. I was not disqualified and actually placed #7 on Cat 2.
 
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BackBone said:
- MA, this seems a little harsh. You could apply this penalty maybe after 2 times caught cheating
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Hell no, if anything MA are being lenient here.

In my opinion anyone caught purposefully cheating for advantage in this RCE should be permabanned from the game, not just mayhem events.
 
why would MA give the reasons/ explanation for which players were DQ'd for on public forum? privately to players who got banned; yea, sure

WHAT COULD GO WRONG if they post every cheat/exploit on forum?? :scratch2:

hmmm i dont know... maybe "copy cats?"

you just want to give people ideas how to exploit??

you need more reasons??
 
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infamousH4 said:
why would MA give the reasons/ explanation for which players were DQ'd for on public forum? privately to players who got the banned; yea, sure

WHAT COULD GO WRONG if they post every cheat/exploit on forum?? :scratch2:

hmmm i dont know... maybe "copy cats?"

you just want to give people ideas how to exploit??

you need more reasons??
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There is nothing to go wrong here, MA doesn't need to be very precise on the explanations. Just give a brief reason:

Player X was disqualified because the number of mobs killed was too low for time spent inside event area.

This would actually diminish the number of copy-cats because they would know what would be the consequences of their actions.
 
First of all congratulations to the winners.
I enjoyed the event and will be doing it again.

My main concern was related to people chipping down their avatars to get into a lower (easier) level instance where they can use their potentially:
  • Superior armor
  • Higher tiered guns which have their base DPS within the required range.
Just a suggestion:
Perhaps MA should consider taking a snapshot of avatars highest related profession level and HP, say 3-4 weeks prior to the event (on an undisclosed date).
Then when the event starts avatars are assigned to a particular wave based on this previously recorded profession level and HP.
This way if it:
  • Should discourage people from chipping down unless they are prepared to do this in advance, not knowing the date the professional level was recorded.
  • Would mean that if you level up prior to the event or during the event it would not have an impact
The above ‘could’ work as long as MA clearly communicate restrictions / how avatars will be assigned in advance of events (but again not disclosing the planned data capture date).

DS
 
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lol, so many bad losers here.
Thinking about 1001 reasons why it wasnt fair because they didnt win.
Boohoo, they borrowed gear and I didnt, thats not fair!
Boohee, they chipped out and I didnt, thats not fair!
Boohoo, they used more buffs then I did, thats not fair
:cry:

LOL!

Come on, grow up guys! You could all have done the same to win. It was an equal playing field.


Gratz to all the winners and chapeau for MA DQ-ing the cheaters!

And Even thought I didnt win, I very much liked the event setup this year!
Next time I'll take some placement tokens for sure :wtg:
 
And gratz to the winners.

A lot of cry babies in here I see. As wizz said, who is holding any of you who are crying so loud to chip out to certain level? Or who is stopping you to borrow best gear to try win yours cat? Or buy a lot of boxes to get better pills? Noone.

I did that,
Ive get the best rifle I could borrow,
I borrow a best L armor which I could afford (payed like 30-40p for decay of it).
Open 80 boxes to get pills and then I was trying to win!

And yes on the end I was kiting mobs for good few minutes because my dps was not enough to kill them anymore and I was defending the unit as long as I could shooting mobs to take aggro on me and I was not DQ so stop telling a BS that someone was banned because he was kiting. There had to be something else.
 
Eli said:
Kiting is not required and pulling mobs out and running them in circles defeats the spirit of the competition and unfortunately it feels like many have forgotten that.

As for annihilation, I suspect that abandoning and restarting repeatedly was not well received. .......

Side note: Why not make the defense event continuously spawn waves and require a certain amount be killed before it progresses to the next wave counter, and then base the winning score on what round/wave players got to?
Click to expand...

If I had forgotten that, then your comment would have reminded me, but it didn't :eyecrazy: - and I have a high value for what is in the spirit of competition. Also as a side note: I find it saddening how few examples of fair play I find on youtube, for example - but good examples are uplifting!

Your side note is a good attempt, but it still means players could distract the mobs first and have a 'queue' forming.

Toad's suggestion is better I think: Easy fix in defense, if mobs ONLY target is to destroy the target and don't aggro the avatar shooting them then you have to kill them all and armor does not matter, after all it's not yourself you need to defend, its the thing in the middle

I've not read to the end yet - this is a hot topic!
Edit: "There is really no good way to explain someone who runs mobs around in circles...."
Yes there is - you want to still have a clear shot at new mobs coming in, so you need to stay mobile and not be swamped. It might not only be circles, but also in and out the other side, like a pendulum. Yes, you should keep killing when you get a chance, but if the pace keeps increasing, at some point you are fully busy defending the core.

And a big yes to Ms Pudding! - huge yes even!
(Ah, I checked the results... I assume then that our thoughts so far on the DQs have been at least partially wrong. Maybe it was the kill count, or apparent 'inactivity' that MA put a benchmark on somehow - and Ms Pudding was within the 'spirit' still. Well, big grats - and nobody above your time was apparently DQ-ed, so hopefully noone unfairly treated in your cat!!!)

And I hope MA answers LangeTobias better too ...

OMG to NPV - I won't quote, but had a similar thought last night, actually about whether a PP has given up trying to make progress after quite a few years and is pretty much just taking the salary almost as 'compensation for damage to the soul' from having to circle MA.

And yes to BackBone! I've never agreed so much with the flood of posts here in my life. This is about edit number 8 or so as I read each post going down....

Community - I am proud of you - even winners are commenting, instead of hiding...!!!

Oh, I disagree with #84: "Just give a brief reason: Player X was disqualified because the number of mobs killed was too low for time spent inside event area." That doesn't do it for me for sure... I would be defending a defense cat DQ'd person even more if that was the reason stated.

And finally, Iceman - you were cat5, yes?
"I was not DQ so stop telling a BS that someone was banned because he was kiting. There had to be something else."
Cat 5 is aleady in no-DQ territory, so maybe - as I have suggested - the strategy was much more pronounced in the lower cats. We don't know what threshold MA took if this was indeed the full reason..... (which it still could be).

and Extra finally - lol - Granny below - Excellent, excellent, excellent!!! Brilliant post in my opinion - and I don't say that often! Right, time for RL now....
 
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Low kill count compared to time in event,,,

Firstly..where did it say in event rules player had to be active every minute they were logged on.
Secondly..hands on heart people... have you never come back to your machine after minutes / hours / even a weekend away and realised you forgot to log out when you went afk.

Please note I did not take part in this event, I very rarely take part in events at all, why ? because the time limitations conflict with my RL and other game commitments and so make it too complicated.
People have real lives, interrupts such as phone calls, visitors, children, are we really supposed to believe we cannot take part in events in case we are more than a few minutes afk, and can be publicly labelled a cheat as a result ?

MA need to communicate and make rules absolutely clear before an event starts
Ma need to actively monitor events and at first sign of potential exploit communicate with player, see if there is justification for the apparent activity or lack of.
MA need to swiftly communicate to all players if an exploit is discovered, and warn that any further infractions will cause player to be disqualified.

Why not those who already did it ?
Simple without absolute proof (such as a pm in game to advise others of the exploit) they may not realise it was an exploit rather than a game mechanic.
Without absolute proof it appears that MA are themselves relying on assumptions
To publish peoples names without evidence of an offence is libel, or at the very least defamation of character.
In an RCE reputation matters.. MA want to take care no-one thinks to consult a lawyer over this.

Alternatives they could consider when an exploit or abuse may be happening:

For a first 'offence' or misunderstanding of the rules, MA could offer them the choice of quit the event and start again...or take an MA version of normalized score so far.
Unless ofc it is clear from chats that they know what they are doing and have told others what to do, which should then be considered for DQ or ban on a case by case basis.

Repeat offenders..
MA need to log all those players that are seen to exploit, and repeat offences could then lead to not just DQ from that events, but all events on that planet, all events in EU and ultimately ban from game

Also consider this - if we take a simplistic view of 'first strike and you are out -
Would you risk taking part in an event where you may discover a bug / exploit..and someone else reports before you do.. or that you didn't realise it was not a mechanic of the event, or simply didn't even notice?
Let's not go overboard and 'criminalise' people who may or may not have done something wrong intentionally. Let's stay proportionate.

MA need to re-examine these cases, talk to the players involved and if any are cleared of 'intent to exploit', then a public apology is required, and prizes awarded according to their original placings, without ofc changing anything for those already awarded.

And in my opinion they need to give clear and unequivocal guidance on chipping in or out for events. Borrowing of equipment/armours etc
Where to draw the line.. Did Mr X chip out 3 weeks ago to change his event category ? or was he broke and needed the ped ? and lets remember MA make a profit if people chip in or out
Did Mr Y 'borrow' that armour and offer collateral.. or did he buy it
What about armour and rental services in game.. should they become obsolete ?

It is easy to moan that others cheated when in fact all they did was take advantage of longstanding game mechanics, just as you could have.
 
It is very easy to ruin someone's reputation and VERY hard to get it back again, that is the only needed reason for no naming and shaming.

Divinity said:
Firstly, gratz to all the winners.

Major applaud for MA doing the naming/shaming. We need them to do this for all sorts of things to act as a future deterrent.

However, via support case if it gets decided that the avatar DQ'd was done so without any rationale then i definitely expect a post by MA saying so over here. Dealing with the issue can happen over support for privacy reasons but the results should be posted publicly so those who were unfairly DQ'd and named do not have a tarnished reputation for no fault of there's.

Also MA do need to change the system to encourage people to skill up rather then chip down. As such i expect balancing of rewards to promote that.
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