Suggestion: Weak and Flimsy Empty Skill Implants

Hey all,

In light of the recent sales of high level avatars, the open and public attempts to purchase avatars using this forum, and the apparent overabundance of skills available ingame, I think this topic should be revisited.

The last thread I saw regarding a new method of Empty Skill Implants suggested that they be added to the trade terminal. I think this would be too drastic a change and would significantly harm the economy.

Instead, I propose two new series of Empty Skill Implants be implemented into the game.

"Weak" Empty Skill Implant (L) would function exactly like a normal Empty Skill Implant (L), except that rather than losing 10% of the skills extracted, you would lose 30% of the skills extracted.

"Flimsy" Empty Skill Implant (L) would function exactly as stated above, but you would lose 50% of the skills extracted.

I propose these be introduced into the game by releasing them at the same drop frequency of current Empty Skill Implant (L)s, while maintaining the same drop rate of Empty Skill Implants. This would triple the overall supply of empty skill implants with potentially only a moderate drop in value of the original implant.

This would benefit the economy by giving cheaper alternatives to traditional skill implants, allowing certain skills (basically any skill below 1100%) to be worth chipping out again. Conversely, this would also make it worth it for people to chip skills in, as the weak and flimsy ESIs would be significantly cheaper.
The downside would be competition with normal ESIs would cause a drop in the market value of regular ESIs, but I believe the market would balance itself sufficiently and the overall markup return would remain relatively the same.

Don't waste your time, if MA really want to solve the issue they can just start releasing enough ESIs to bring the price down and make it worth/possible to sell the skills.
They definitely don't want that at this moment so I don't see how they would want to implement something that require more work for them with no benefit.
The solution is simple and already available, we just need someone from MA to increase at least 10 times ESI drop rate.

Skills are an “added value” to playing the game, that way you feel you are gaining something of value when you are spending money shooting crafting etc. This added value has no impact on Mindark until the avatar skills are extracted to fill an esi. From there it is possible to sell said skills for more ped ( depends on skill value ), and that ped received can be cashed out. For a game that seems to be struggling to keep its user base, converting skill to ped is not in their best interest if the number leaving is greater then new money deposited.

nevermind..... edit

start adding 2-3 esi to everyone's freebie xmas gifts, halloween gifts, etc.... I think xmas normally has 3 gifts per planet, make 2 of those esi, or maybe create an npc that lets you turn in gifts previously received in exchange for an esi in a one to one ratio or something?

or do as you suggest, weak ones with higher loss rates, perhaps a TT one with even higher loss rate, something like 40% loss in the TT version?

NPC that allows you to trade sweat or fruit for an ESI.

The empty ESI you receive is not tradeable. The filled ESI is.

Suggestions about ESIs, including this one, inevitably miss a fundamental point.

It's not supposed to be easy to chip out a lot of skills.

Oleg said:

Suggestions about ESIs, including this one, inevitably miss a fundamental point.

It's not supposed to be easy to chip out a lot of skills.

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The problem is that most of the skills being sold today are not being sold via the ingame system, and are being traded as entire avatars.

Captain Jack said:

The problem is that most of the skills being sold today are not being sold via the ingame system, and are being traded as entire avatars.

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Doesnt matter. Those folks will never be able to withdraw. But as daid earlier, it is meant to be very difficult to chip out both to keep you in the game and also to prevent impulsive behavior despite the behavior the game fosters.

atomicstorm said:

Doesnt matter. Those folks will never be able to withdraw. But as daid earlier, it is meant to be very difficult to chip out both to keep you in the game and also to prevent impulsive behavior despite the behavior the game fosters.

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All they have to do is transfer earned/won PEDs to their own avatars and withdraw that way.

poker13 said:

Skills are an “added value” to playing the game, that way you feel you are gaining something of value when you are spending money shooting crafting etc. This added value has no impact on Mindark until the avatar skills are extracted to fill an esi. From there it is possible to sell said skills for more ped ( depends on skill value ), and that ped received can be cashed out. For a game that seems to be struggling to keep its user base, converting skill to ped is not in their best interest if the number leaving is greater then new money deposited.

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Speak of the devil...

I understand the way the skills system works. It is actually highly beneficial to MindArk when skills are cashed out, as it expends a significant amount of TT value which is totally lost (pure profit for MindArk). Cutting out the middle man by buying an avatar outright cuts out this profit for MindArk.
Furthermore, the PEDs generated by chipping out does not come from MindArk but from other players - money which had to be deposited by someone at some point.

Captain Jack said:

All they have to do is transfer earned/won PEDs to their own avatars and withdraw that way.



Speak of the devil...

I understand the way the skills system works. It is actually highly beneficial to MindArk when skills are cashed out, as it expends a significant amount of TT value which is totally lost (pure profit for MindArk). Cutting out the middle man by buying an avatar outright cuts out this profit for MindArk.
Furthermore, the PEDs generated by chipping out does not come from MindArk but from other players - money which had to be deposited by someone at some point.

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In no way is it highly beneficial to Mindark when skills are cashed out vs not cashed out when more are leaving than coming lol

Oleg said:

Suggestions about ESIs, including this one, inevitably miss a fundamental point.

It's not supposed to be easy to chip out a lot of skills.

Click to expand...

I'm glad to see from time to time people that actually think before posting something in this forum.
Esis aren't supposed to be found while farting killing kerberos.Top high end items have a value because of those type of items among others.

Avatars that transfer in this way are going to be damaged at best. Your personal information can not be altered (except for minor adjustments to fix things).

Any exchange that happens outside of the game holds no grounds when the named owner decides to claim fraud to reclaim the character. That would be a fun circus.

These high loss ESIS will raise the MU on skills, and MA has tried so hard to nerf that already. I honestly don't see a reason they would reverse that course now. They don't want folks to chip out. When you still have a functioning avatar, coming back is always easier. And for MA, that's good

Captain Jack said:

All they have to do is transfer earned/won PEDs to their own avatars and withdraw that way.



Speak of the devil...

I understand the way the skills system works. It is actually highly beneficial to MindArk when skills are cashed out, as it expends a significant amount of TT value which is totally lost (pure profit for MindArk). Cutting out the middle man by buying an avatar outright cuts out this profit for MindArk.
Furthermore, the PEDs generated by chipping out does not come from MindArk but from other players - money which had to be deposited by someone at some point.

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Which makes them ban targets if they do... because mindark is going after these folks now.

By the way. Skills have no TT value. To mindark, does not make any difference whether avatars have skills to expunge or not. The ESIs have the TT value. You simply transfer it and ESIs are a markup generating mechanism that, if auctioned, adds a rake into the economy.

messi91 said:

I'm glad to see from time to time people that actually think before posting something in this forum.
Esis aren't supposed to be found while farting killing kerberos.Top high end items have a value because of those type of items among others.

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I'm not proposing dropping ESIs from Kerberos. I am proposing adding these inferior ESIs using the same mechanisms currently ingame. This means they would drop from the same mobs and at the same frequency as regular ESIs.

atomicstorm said:

Which makes them ban targets if they do... because mindark is going after these folks now.

By the way. Skills have no TT value. To mindark, does not make any difference whether avatars have skills to expunge or not. The ESIs have the TT value. You simply transfer it and ESIs are a markup generating mechanism that, if auctioned, adds a rake into the economy.

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I apologize, I seem to have poorly written it.
When I was referring to TT value lost, I was referring to the use of skill chips themselves. 100% of the TT value of all Empty Skill Implants is inevitably lost straight into the profit pool of MindArk as soon as they are chipped back in (since, as you said, the skills themselves have no TT value and you don't get anything back when you eat a skill chip).

Regarding the banning of said individuals, I don't think this would actually happen. Said individuals could simply make a case that "I didn't buy the avatar, I was simply playing on it" - which is not against the EULA.

mastermesh said:

start adding 2-3 esi to everyone's freebie xmas gifts, halloween gifts, etc.... I think xmas normally has 3 gifts per planet, make 2 of those esi, or maybe create an npc that lets you turn in gifts previously received in exchange for an esi in a one to one ratio or something?

or do as you suggest, weak ones with higher loss rates, perhaps a TT one with even higher loss rate, something like 40% loss in the TT version?

Click to expand...

I specifically do not want ESIs to be given away for free, or to be added to the trade terminal. Such an action would significantly devalue all ESIs and significantly reduce the incentive to hunt high level mobs.
My proposal maintains the incentive to hunt high level mobs, as the inferior ESIs would still drop from them. Sure, the value of ESIs would drop to some degree (to, perhaps, the 600% they were back in '09?), but the markup gained from the same hunters by looting the inferior ESIs would likely balance out the overall loss of value from the regular ESIs.

Captain Jack said:

I'm not proposing dropping ESIs from Kerberos. I am proposing adding these inferior ESIs using the same mechanisms currently ingame. This means they would drop from the same mobs and at the same frequency as regular ESIs.

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You are proposing to celebrate Christmas 3 times a year and then you think why there is no magic to it like it used to be.

messi91 said:

You are proposing to celebrate Christmas 3 times a year and then you think why there is no magic to it like it used to be.

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I am proposing a solution to a significant problem we have here. You yourself should know the difficulty of selling skills as the demand for your shortblade skills can not even come close to how fast you alone are producing them (to say nothing of anybody else selling shortblade skills).

Eli said:

These high loss ESIS will raise the MU on skills

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No, they would reduce it. They'd increase the supply in skills without increasing the demand, which can only result in a fall in the price of skills across the board.

Since the TT loss intrinsic to these weak/flimsy ESIs makes them useless for low markup skills, their price would therefore also spiral downwards until they were eventually TT food.

Since all of that would make chipping out even more arduous and worthless than before, none of this would discourage avatar sales. Quite the opposite, in fact.

This idea is just another "race to the bottom" one, like the 50000 other suggestions for "better" skill-chipping systems we've heard over the years.

Captain Jack said:

I am proposing a solution to a significant problem we have here. You yourself should know the difficulty of selling skills as the demand for your shortblade skills can not even come close to how fast you alone are producing them (to say nothing of anybody else selling shortblade skills).

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You make the false assertion that it is actually a problem. It isn't.

It is working as intended.

Oleg said:

Suggestions about ESIs, including this one, inevitably miss a fundamental point.

It's not supposed to be easy to chip out a lot of skills.

Click to expand...

This is exactly the point...

• MA could increase drop rate of ESI greatly
• MA could allow a system for the direct sale of avatars
• MA could make ESI's available from the TT

They could do a lot of things... But the fact is, they simply don't want it to be easy to sell off your avatar/skills because:

1) They want you sticking around and pumping money in as long as possible. And the more time and money you've got invested into your avatars skills the harder it is to just walk away and count that value as a wash. Additionally, it's easier to come back to playing after leaving if you still have a leveled avatar.

2) They want to wet their beak as much as possible in the blood of new players. If a new player is willing to invest thousands of dollars getting "uber" MA wants that money coming to them through traditional leveling, not just going into the hands of another player directly in a single transaction where they will get virtually no cut of the sale price.

MA is a business. Not a charity. Their goal is to make as much money as possible, not to make us happy.

I would love to see 10 ped ESI`S in strongboxes.

messi91 said:

Esis aren't supposed to be found while farting killing kerberos.

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It was long ago though, so I'm not sure if I ate beans that day.

Esis anyway too many atm. and too big. See Sand King , shooting 3k+ ped in it , Loot 1.2k with a 950 ped esi in it . After 300 ped shooted in it i get 9 ped back . This uber esi should be looted from the big mobs that you hunt by yourself. In event mobs like SK should be looted oils , more items , pieses of Armor , guns. And the problem is not the fact that one of three most dmg players get it . You see one guy that comes always at the end shoot 20 ped and get it. Same with all the shared loot events. I believe that the MU from those big esis should be distributed in TT loot as guns or others. You want big esi ? You need to deserve it , go hunt Mulcibers .

messi91 said:

I'm glad to see from time to time people that actually think before posting something in this forum.
Esis aren't supposed to be found while farting killing kerberos.Top high end items have a value because of those type of items among others.

Click to expand...

ESI had a nice value a few years ago as well when I found them in mobs like Cornundacauda, Tantillion and such. We need items and markup at any level - else you are soon pretty much alone here in this game and guess who is paying MA's bills then

pechunter said:

I would love to see 10 ped ESI`S in strongboxes.

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It would certainly increase strongbox sales.


WAIT A MINUTE..... ESI STRONGBOXES!

BECAUSE WE NEED MORE TYPES OF BOXES!!!!!!

And where are the real life item boxes, I want a poster.

Haruto Rat said:

It was long ago though, so I'm not sure if I ate beans that day.

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Have seen some dropping from Merp, too
My first one was from Bery mature.

It was rar but it happened. Back that days, people who aimed for ESI went to CND for the Dasps, which dropped them much more.

And MU was better that days, ESIs sold at 1200-1500%.
The skill chips had value and nothing sold below 2500%

But SiB Weapons for all levels, double skill events, triple skill events, missions that reward with skill, skill pills.
Much to easy to get skills. Skills lost a lot of its value.

Messi just started to late to know the old PE days, when no SiB existed.


On topic:
I don´t think that Jacks idea would change anything.
People still will prefer selling a complete avatar than chipping it out.
Even if enough ESIs would be available.