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  1. #41
    Too much technocrats here and not enough empathy

    Sometimes you can get in a bad mood, especially after a losing streak over a couple weeks were nothing succeeds and the loses adding up. This can drive people to the edge, after all thats real money here we talk about, and make them lose their cool for a moment. That one run got picked out after a series of bad runs and he projected his anger over the past runs into this one run, demanding some kind of gratification from the system wich got him denied.

    and nobody got the idea that maybe a few words of solace or a heads up was all needed to reply here and instead turning that into a fierce debatte about stuff the OP is pretty well aware off ?

  2. #42
    Old Alpha Darth Revan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alukat123 View Post
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    So you do want to tell me, the TT-return volatility is the same on quantity & condition?
    So you do want to tell me, both are producing the same TT-return results at the same click amount? Say you click 500 on Quantity and 500 on Condition, same result?

    Sorry, but i don't know if i can take you seriously anymore....

    btw, nice cherry picking there.
    Only replying to the relevant parts otherwise i will have to write novels.
    Also no, i'm not saying the same tt return at same click amount. Nothing will be exact, but it is close based on a high number of clicks, what you think is high and what I class as high is completely different scales though.
    Since you don't seem to like actually testing things, here you go...your 500 click test as requested:

    Note - to me 500 clicks is not a large enough sample size, but that should be enough to satisfy you. Also don't expect this type of result on 14 clicks or 100 clicks even.

    EP II - full QR and maxed (used so i don't waste MU and i dont have EP III)
    500 clicks - full quantity - TT in 100ped - TT return 85.52ped- product 50.26%- success 42.2%- fail 4.2%
    500 clicks - full condition - TT in 100ped - TT return 96.35ped - product 29.53% - success 6% - fail 87%

    I'm now done on this topic and unsubscribing, if your not going to listen then all the best in your crafting attempts and I'll thank you in advance for feeding the loot pool.

  3. #43
    Slayer Spawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evey View Post
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    @Spawn - No one that has expectations of consistency over 6 clicks knows the basics of this game. It sounds harsh, but it's a fact.
    @Stellios - The cost of a click can be 100 ped or 1 pec. You should not expect anything from a sample this size. That fact that you know this but rule it out as being smartass comment is even worse. 6 items sample should be a fun thing, you do it for the "maybe", close your eyes and you move on.
    When things go bad, increasing the click cost is the worst thing you can do for your wallet and your mental health
    Do it for fun, not for recovering the losses

    You both are the leaders of good, big and very active societies. How is this a subject over 6 clicks, I don't know...
    I just believe he was just giving an example of what he did today. Not that he always does this. Big difference.

  4. #44
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    Stelios AKALYPTOS ntelinatsos
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiona Simmons View Post
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    Too much technocrats here and not enough empathy

    Sometimes you can get in a bad mood, especially after a losing streak over a couple weeks were nothing succeeds and the loses adding up. This can drive people to the edge, after all thats real money here we talk about, and make them lose their cool for a moment. That one run got picked out after a series of bad runs and he projected his anger over the past runs into this one run, demanding some kind of gratification from the system wich got him denied.

    and nobody got the idea that maybe a few words of solace or a heads up was all needed to reply here and instead turning that into a fierce debatte about stuff the OP is pretty well aware off ?
    few words and very accurate.. i think you are the only person that totally understood the meaning of my thread.. it wasn't the fail on my 14 clicks (as you see i was about to do 70 clicks before i got pissed and leave) but it was the bad loot i have since ~3 weeks, every day, in every prof i do, in every amount of ped, no matter if i do 10 clicks, 100 clicks or 1k clicks of 1ped/click or 150ped/click.. no matter if i go to hunt big atrox for one hour or do 5 hours non-stop hunting on marcimex or if i try some small mobs.. my loot was bad and in 9 of my 10 actions i was losing peds..

    when you continuously losing peds in everything you does, thinking many times to stop or get a break, then you try again and you keep losing, it's very easy to get pissed in even a small run of 14 clicks. cause you know, that even if you keep it up, you gonna lose even more peds, like you did in the previous days..

    and btw, i didn't make this thread to start a general discussion.. if i wanted that, i'll had to start it in the general discussion section (that's why i asked not to comment in my small crafting run's result). i made this thread in devs corner cause i hope MA gonna read it and consider changing the bad loot system they have atm.

    well, i'm not gonna say anything more..

    note for pcf devs: btw, why did you move my thread from devs corner to crafting section? my thread has nothing to do with crafting prof by itself and i'm pretty sure that moving my thread to this wrong section caused all the off topic posts from one moment and then
    Last edited by ntelinatsos; 05-30-2018 at 01:25.

  5. #45
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    from post #17 and then, most posts are off topic, i guess that's when the devs moved my thread to a wrong section.. very sad that they did something like that..

  6. #46
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    This thread's creator has clarified to me that he would like the posters in this thread to focus less on the crafting results/anecdote he included in his original post and more on the general state of loot returns/volatility and his frustrations regarding them.

    I was also notified by the thread creator that his thread was incorrectly moved to the Crafting sub-forum by another member of the PCF staff, and that it was not meant to be thread centered around Crafting, and that he would like that discussion to take place moreso here instead.

    Thanks for your co-operation.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Revan View Post
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    Only replying to the relevant parts otherwise i will have to write novels.
    Also no, i'm not saying the same tt return at same click amount. Nothing will be exact, but it is close based on a high number of clicks, what you think is high and what I class as high is completely different scales though.
    ah, the problem is, you're confirmation biasing. Just picking a sample size where volatility disappears is confirmation bias.

    I once had a 185 click run with 0-10% return on condition, try getting such low return on that click amount on full quantity crafting, then you may be right that the volatility is the same.
    As long as the min-return in a run can be significantly lower & max-return can be significantly higher than on quantity crafting, then the volatility is simply higher on condition crafting than on quantity crafting.

    Just to rule out any communication issues, what's your definition of volatility, it's min/max-span in a run as well, isn't it?

    P.S.: discussing volatility based on an infinite amount of clicks makes no sense, because all volatility is gone in such a large amount of clicks. So by your logic, there's no volatility in the game at all...
    Last edited by Alukat123; 05-30-2018 at 15:20.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alukat123 View Post
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    I once had a 185 click run with 0-10% return on condition, try getting such low return on that click amount on full quantity crafting, then you may be right that the volatility is the same.
    Well, he said that 500 clicks is to small sample, and now you come with a 185 clicks run LOL

    He is absolutely right, on long runs (10k+ clicks) the outcome in TT is nearly the same.
    Tested this with basic filters aswell with standard dampers.

    You get less products on condition but much more multiplyers that drop fair amount residue, covering the many failures.
    100 failures in row happens at full condition as success rate is somewhere 2-4% (can´t remember exact number), but you can find it somewhere in this forum as it has been already tested by others who shared their knowledge.
    If you do 100 clicks on full condition, you should not be surprised when you end with 0% return.

    I thought you are experienced crafter, but actually it doesn´t really look like it.

    Full Quantity has low volatility, thats right, but low volatility means low number of multiplyers, which is the main complaint you bring in most of your threads.

    I rarly ever craft full quantity, because this is just bad. Even if you want to get max products out of run, its rarly with full quantity, as you wont get enough multiplyers.

    If you move the slider, that a success gives a 2x multiplyer as lowest result, you do a lot better.

    Especially with bluprints where TT value of materials is huge different, it is important to move the slider.
    Example a BP uses 2 resources, one is 80 pec the other is 10 pec (hypthetical numbers).
    A near success is around 50-80% so you will nearly never get the 80 pec resource in near success.
    Moving the slider to the position where lowest success is 2x multiplyer, a near success is around 90-140 pec, which gives you the higher value material much more often. Beside that the 2x multiplyer in a success often is pure product, which will give you more products compared to full quantity crafting.

    Try it, do it on long crafts with 10k-20k clicks, and you maybe will notice the difference yourself.
    And yes its higher volatility, you will discover more failures, but you will also discover more multiplyers and higher max multiplyers.

    Another thing about moving the slider towards condition, nothing to do with volatility but:
    more often BP drops, more skillgains even on BPs you are maxed on, than doing full quantity where I get nearly no skillgain on maxed BPs.

    Some things are so obvious, I don´t know why people are not able to use this knowledge to their advantage.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by GoNi View Post
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    Well, he said that 500 clicks is to small sample, and now you come with a 185 clicks run LOL

    He is absolutely right, on long runs (10k+ clicks) the outcome in TT is nearly the same.
    Tested this with basic filters aswell with standard dampers.
    Yes, he may be right as it goes for the 10k+ clicks, yet how the roads towards it plays out matters as well, at least to me and other crafters.
    If you go 9999 clicks with only fails and click #10000 has a times 10000 multiplier, then it may be true, that you get good returns at 10000 clicks, yet the 9999 fail clicks are still very frustrating.
    Granted, exaggerated uber-volatility scenario, but i guess you get my point.

    The whole discussion isn't about wether or not you're getting good returns after 100.000 clicks, it's how is the road towards those 100.000 clicks plays out.
    Darth Revan still sadly doesn't get that or just ignores it or the road simply doesn't matter to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoNi View Post
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    Full Quantity has low volatility, thats right, but low volatility means low number of multiplyers, which is the main complaint you bring in most of your threads.
    You mean when crafting was totally fucked up from december to april?
    Where even good runs, times 50 multi in a 250 click run, was only 90% return?
    When bigger multi in small click run is still bad return, then there's something wrong that needed to be adressed...
    That was what those threads were about, MA gladly adressed the issue with their recent changes.

    Btw, i just been saying, that it would be nice to get to 90+% on bigger crafts rather quickly, nice to have but if MA doesn't do it it's fine as well, Darth Revan didn't get this as well...
    Last edited by Alukat123; 05-30-2018 at 16:45.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by messi91 View Post
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    I should not post here because I am not a crafter and this is not my business and I'm not an expert but If I was about to start crafting and try what you just did, I would start with a budget of at least 150.000 ped on my card for that cost/click.
    That would only secure my returns close to what the game is designed to return you since there is no modifier for you to get more as I am aware of.

    I am afraid if you continue like that you not only log out of the game but leave the game for good.
    Start learning the basics and fundamentals of this game.
    GL

    Bro... you can just say, 'Go small & slow'. (He) is not a green player anymore. Look at his way of posting and the date of joining PCF. He knows what he is saying here.

    What you said is the same thing like Ms Raven did. Bankroll, right? And he knows..... that's hurt ouch !

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