Will Mindark ever be happy with their profits or will EU lose the rest of its player base?

Barbylicious

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Barby Barbylicious Berry
I am going to post this, knowing that I will more than likely be in for a fanboy bashing, because I am really upset. I don't know how many times this is going to keep happening.

So Mindark reverted the terrible changes they made to crafting a few months or so back where you only would get 50%-60% of materials back on a near success, best case scenario, instead of sometimes getting 90%+ back and I was pretty happy that they realized what a terrible change they had made for us crafters and reverted to how crafting was.

Now, it seems they have once again made another change to crafting where your chances of a critical success are now near impossible. Critical success to me means getting a multiplier of 1.5x or higher and this is how you global, HOF, or ATH crafting. I've made close to 2000 clicks crafting in the past two days and my brother also plays the game religiously and crafts Explosive Projectile II and says he is noticing the exact same thing, a substantially less chance to succeed and get a multiplier when crafting, so now there is very little chance to do a crafting run for a profit or near profit.

How many times do the developers of this game think they can get over on the paying players before we get sick and tired of dumping money into the game? When I at least feel like I have a chance of profiting playing the game, I will continue to deposit and continue to play but lately, the changes being made to the game are plain sneaky, devious, and downright dirty.

I completely understand that Mindark has to pull in profits to keep the game going but let me count the ways already that should almost guarantee Mindark is prospering/profiting substantially.

1) Decay (Weapons, armor, items)
2) Weapons missing (pure profit each swing or shot we miss a mob)
3) Auction house fees (regardless of whether our items sell or not, Mindark gets the fee, and if it sells, they get a percentage of the final price as well)
4) Deposit and withdrawal fees (when we add money or withdrawal to/from the game, they get some of it as a fee)
5) Space teleporter fees (7 ped fast travel fee from space teleporter to planet and 2 ped fee to enter a planet's atmosphere)
6) When players don't log in, Mindark gets everything left in the account eventually.
7) Selling of virtual items in the game (ships, planets, land deeds, etc., etc., etc.)
8) Outsourcing miners and making items craftable with their TT materials (nanocubes) (Explosive projectiles, for example)
I am sure I can think of a bunch more ways but I don't want this to seem like my main point.

My main point of this post is to seriously ask Mindark when is enough enough? I don't play EU to get rich or even in hopes of getting rich playing. I play for the entertainment I get when I hit something nice when I am out killing stuff, crafting, enjoying the game with my brother, but when you change the mechanics of the game to the point where I feel like my odds of getting a nice multiplier are nearing the odds of hitting the Powerball, the game loses its fun factor very quickly.

Hell, I am happy most of the time just to break even or end up at 90% return after decay.

I ask you to please consider what I have written in this post because if things continue heading in the direction they have been the past 6 or so months, I will stop playing, my brother will stop playing, and I am pretty sure more players will leave. I've been here since early 2013, maybe even longer (that's the first global Entropia Life shows for me, can't remember for sure it's been so long now.) and I want to continue to enjoy playing the game but, I don't know whether to call it greed or what exactly to call it without sounding rude, remember that your player base doesn't mind losing money as long as it doesn't feel like it is being deceptively stolen from us and that's how it feels when we have no choice in the changes you make to the game or when we are not told about them.

Thank you.
 
nvm, wasn't necessary to react that harsh...
 
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It has already begin... my wild guess will be a large migration out from non-European/non-US players, then followed by the US players.

At the end, the European will struggle among themselves with the non-depositor players.
 
Less volatile returns means you'll get fewer multipliers. So I'm guessing when they adjusted volatility they had to reduce the number of multipliers.

However, if you don't think they are doing something right, then don't cycle. It is as simple as that.
 
Less volatile returns means you'll get fewer multipliers. So I'm guessing when they adjusted volatility they had to reduce the number of multipliers.

However, if you don't think they are doing something right, then don't cycle. It is as simple as that.

Exactly this. Vote with your wallet.
 
pre-change: 375 clicks without multiplier (times 10 or bigger) - 73,45% return
post-change: 379 clicks without multiplier (times 10 or bigger) - 81,9% return

pre-change: 564 clicks with 2 times 25 multipliers - 82,65% return
post-change 379 click with a single times 13-15 multiplier - 84,72% return

they actually improved crafting quite a lot with that change....
 
pre-change: 375 clicks without multiplier (times 10 or bigger) - 73,45% return
post-change: 379 clicks without multiplier (times 10 or bigger) - 81,9% return

pre-change: 564 clicks with 2 times 25 multipliers - 82,65% return
post-change 379 click with a single times 13-15 multiplier - 84,72% return

they actually improved crafting quite a lot with that change....

Did you ever consider that you may be going through a better period and that this period may blow over at some point?

You'll be the first back complaining then.
 
Did you ever consider that you may be going through a better period and that this period may blow over at some point?

can there be a period being worse than no multiplier?
not getting any multipliers is already the worst-case-scenario

But i guess you just came here to toss in some BS-talk...
 
I don't think MA is that greedy. From their financial reports it looks like they were losing consistently for few years and 2016 was their first barely profitable year. In few days they should release report for 2017 - we will see how it went for them soon. They are struggling too - probably too small playerbase so they have to pull a lot of money per user to pay bills.
 
they actually improved crafting quite a lot with that change....

I don't know about crafting multipliers within the last 2 days or so, but the recently announced changes to improve 'real' success percentages by a bit improves crafting results for item crafting (weaps etc). MA has made a good attempt at telling us about main changes to semi-successes as well, and appears to have considered the problem in their recent test about not getting certain mats back at all on some bps due to mat tt imbalances.

I also don't see what MA is supposed to do to please everybody on the volatility front when so many people appear not to understand statistics. Put another way, I do not know what I would do if I had the power over loot spreads. MA needs a rake, and anyone who makes a profit or breaks even is basically not having any rake taken away from them, so it needs to come from others. This is why avatar skills, learnt gameplay knowledge and mus should have an effect on avatars competing with each other.

The best way for MA to be able to lower their rake per player would be to have more people playing, but despite increases in the size of the universe, this does not seem to have happened much.

Also, the new looting skills are an interesting sign of trying to make skills count for something again, now that loot 2.0 has taken away a lot of the previous benefits from efficient play (such as low overkill).

Yes, changes and mistrust may mean selected groups of players become dissatisfied in rotation as MA rotates, which is maybe why MA should not keep changing things. But if certain changes are actually improvements, then I would hope I am able to recognise this and support MA for once .... :)
 
I also don't see what MA is supposed to do to please everybody on the volatility front when so many people appear not to understand statistics.

Well, they kinda already solved that issue on crafting with the quantity-condition slider.
set quantity to low volatility and condition to high, then players can choose which volatility they prefer.

Those people who are currently crafting on quantity and want higher volatility should simply move the slider towards condition instead of asking for quantity crafting to become so volatile that it basically turns into 1/3 the way towards condition crafting...
 
Well, they kinda already solved that issue on crafting with the quantity-condition slider.

Yes, I very much agree with you there, but there are always these people and those people who don't understand the simplest of stuff. I sometimes think that volume controls should show a warning or so: "Warning - increasing the volume will make the sounds you are listening to louder. This may exceed comfort levels if used carelessly!"

Thinking about this, however, the lowest setting on the crafting slider is not zero volatility, so maybe MA 'should' start with the slider on 'absolutely predictable returns' :yup::smoke:
 
What are you crafting when you see these returns? How big are the runs? Are you maxed on the blueprint? Are you selling the crafted item for a Markup price? Are you buying materials for Markup? Are you running full condition or not?

These are very relevant questions that I'd like to know before I can tell if it's something wrong with the game or the player. :)
 
Unhappy?

Vote with your wallet... If we all did this, change would be quite fast..
 
:wise: Actually, not all these things you mention bring in profit....


1) Decay - is now mostly factored into loot 2.0 returns
2) Weapons missing - I've run fairly extensive test on this and have concluded misses count towards what your retirn is.
3) Deposit and withdrawal fees - actually most, if not all of the deposit fee goes to cover visa/mastercard/payal rocessing charges. Withdrawal fees go more into their pocket but how many people actually withdraw from this game regularly?

Their biggest earnings come from the couple % they skim off the top of loot returns like a casion setting slot payouts to 96%
 
:wise: Actually, not all these things you mention bring in profit....

2) Weapons missing - I've run fairly extensive test on this and have concluded misses count towards what your retirn is.

No. But Dodge/Evades are.
 
Most of my former friendslist did this and I never saw most of them back... Nothing changed and game is worse then ever before


If we all did this change would be quite fast...

All of us won't, so it will never happen. But if we all did, I am sure things would change quicker than you can say otorhinolaryngologist
 

The time of the dinosaurs is at an end.



Mammals from now on. :)
 
Rest assured they are not swimming in massive profits. The reality is that EU is a money cycler and the rake not all that substantial unless you have a lot of turnover - but the VOLATILITY is what gives the game its flair. If you didn't have periods where you could lose $50, you wouldn't have the periods where you could gain $50 either. As they tweak the algorithms since 2.0, the ending result is that you will have less and less large multipliers - as they do that with crafting, this will be the case as well. You just have to remember that for the last few years, it's the same echo chamber. Some one will always be losing in a zero sum game (and it is zero sum).

When you lose 500ped in a hunting session, you didn't give that to mindark. Most of it went to the loot pool, a small subset of it (decay) is split between mindark and the planet partner based on the terms they agreed to. If you are calypso born, a portion of THAT is then split with CLD owners.

The problem why some people are leaving is because of changes with 2.0 - and some people are leaving while others play more because it is more stable for them. The hope of being able to buy tons of uber gear and grind over 100%TT is gone.. which is also the allure of forever being able to improve on gear to get better and better returns. There is something that drives you to continue to grind endlessly to buy more and more gear to chase after TT returns, when the game was always about markup from the start.

Interesting note.. part of why some people are losing (and I won't get into details) is Mindark still has a fucked up loot pool, which used to give the loot some of its stability. I am guessing they aren't listening still after a year to fix it.
 
I am guessing they aren't listening still after a year to fix it.

Listening gave us No Loots removed and people complaining about smaller HOF's.

I blame the teachers. :wise:



MA listen, but sometimes they listen to stoopids. :dunce:



^ Best example I know of a very clever person being stupid.
 
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Listening gave us No Loots removed and people complaining about smaller HOF's.

I blame the teachers. :wise:



MA listen, but sometimes they listen to stoopids. :dunce:



^ Best example I know of a very clever person being stupid.

Well, you are only half true... I look at every change Mindark makes with a different prism than them listening to PCF people.
 
Listening gave us No Loots removed and people complaining about smaller HOF's.

I blame the teachers. :wise:

MA listen, but sometimes they listen to stoopids. :dunce:



^ Best example I know of a very clever person being stupid.



I always believe, people who run this RCE, cannot be a simple minded person and they should be able to handle everything professionally.
 
Its the same every year up to migration. Loot drops like hell.
But I gotta admit that I only seen good progression to crafting (expect the past few days) I recently hit 7k and 8k on ep3 which is 2ped a click with 4 days a part. And a few 1ks aswell. Loot is dynamic and so is avatars in my theory so we all have good and bad loot days.
And regarding hunting I had a good month until now. But again migration and summer event is coming so its nothing new. Loot be back to "normal" when it starts
 
Its the same every year up to migration. Loot drops like hell.
But I gotta admit that I only seen good progression to crafting (expect the past few days) I recently hit 7k and 8k on ep3 which is 2ped a click with 4 days a part. And a few 1ks aswell. Loot is dynamic and so is avatars in my theory so we all have good and bad loot days.
And regarding hunting I had a good month until now. But again migration and summer event is coming so its nothing new. Loot be back to "normal" when it starts

well some ppl get.. im not one of those.. i actually checked and its been 8!!!! fkin years since my last crafting uber and i have gambled alot in that 8 years.. ive started to think my crafting is completely broken.. just recently crafted 1000 clicks on condition without a single multiplier and out of 10k+ clicks my best loot was 218peds on a 3ped print..

That crafting was the last chance i gave to the game.. had already sold the gear and shit.. its time to move on now..
 
well some ppl get.. im not one of those.. i actually checked and its been 8!!!! fkin years since my last crafting uber and i have gambled alot in that 8 years.. ive started to think my crafting is completely broken.. just recently crafted 1000 clicks on condition without a single multiplier and out of 10k+ clicks my best loot was 218peds on a 3ped print..

That crafting was the last chance i gave to the game.. had already sold the gear and shit.. its time to move on now..

Seems pretty normal to me... it is condition after all.... perhaps you have the wrong expectations of how crafting is supposed to work... it's not meant to be a slot machine even if you csn treat it like one.
 
it's not meant to be a slot machine even if you csn treat it like one.

Most Explo crafters actually use it exactly that way, as a slot mashine.
Many hunters doing that aswell, chasing the big HoFs on biggest mobs they can hunt, pure gamble.
Mining not better, L13 amps at Foma or Underground, what is it? Just gambling the slot mashine, nothing else.

Its up to each one self, how to play the game.
 
Most Explo crafters actually use it exactly that way, as a slot mashine.
Many hunters doing that aswell, chasing the big HoFs on biggest mobs they can hunt, pure gamble.
Mining not better, L13 amps at Foma or Underground, what is it? Just gambling the slot mashine, nothing else.

Its up to each one self, how to play the game.

Well, you can do that.. that's bank roll management. The game isn't setup for that to be the primary attraction - and thus if you gamble and use it as a slot machine, you have no room to bitch and moan when you end up with your pockets empty - because the math (ROR) was not on your side.
 
They did some adjustments in mode that you get more near success mats back.

But..

Your customers - buyers of enhancers don't care how much and what you got in near success back.
They want enhancers and they cant put your near success on their weapons.

Also they cant understand why enhancers are called consumables if they have astronomic MU like we are talking about something very rare and not just consumables.
Imagine to buy milk (consumable) with VAT 500% instead of usual 20-22%.

Also with this improved crafting you still get back residue witch is not usable in crafting enhancers and there is significant difference in MU between residue and pirite.
 
I don't know about crafting multipliers within the last 2 days or so, but the recently announced changes to improve 'real' success percentages by a bit improves crafting results for item crafting (weaps etc). MA has made a good attempt at telling us about main changes to semi-successes as well, and appears to have considered the problem in their recent test about not getting certain mats back at all on some bps due to mat tt imbalances.

I also don't see what MA is supposed to do to please everybody on the volatility front when so many people appear not to understand statistics. Put another way, I do not know what I would do if I had the power over loot spreads. MA needs a rake, and anyone who makes a profit or breaks even is basically not having any rake taken away from them, so it needs to come from others. This is why avatar skills, learnt gameplay knowledge and mus should have an effect on avatars competing with each other.


I personally wish they would have left crafting alone. Left it the way it was about 8 months ago, before Loot 2.0 I believe.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it is my suggestion. I was perfectly happy crafting and blowing my money when I at least felt like I had a chance to break even or profit. I would average around 1 multiplier every 100 ped I cycled and even if most of them were just double or 1.5X, I would also get globals fairly frequently as well and the occasional HOF.

Whatever they did to crafting most recently, they really screwed it up badly.

BTW, I usually make Simple I and II conductors, plastics springs, mainly stuff that costs around 1 to 2 ped a click...

I now want to complain about hunting loot drops. There are no more rare loots it seems, no more weapon or gear drops.... it seems the only loot you get hunting anymore is shrapnel and other crap with really crappy markup.

I'm sitting here thinking, "Maybe it's just me?!" but them I come to realize how many friends have left the game for good and realize it's not.
 
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