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Shared Loot Changes

It makes me so angry to see a few otherwise normal people making this into some loltics politics showdown. Shame on you.
 
GrannyKillz said:
how do i lose on a miss and how do we know???? its all about ped spend now
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You should read 2.0 notes...

Bertha Bot said:
[h=2]Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0[/h]
[*]A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants.
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A skill miss does not interact directly with the mob and thus does not increase the amount of TT in it's loot.

This thread has at least taught me most people don't even understand the mechanics of the game they're playing.
 
Slyk said:
You should read 2.0 notes...



A skill miss does not interact directly with the mob and thus does not increase the amount of TT in it's loot.

This thread has at least taught me most people don't even understand the mechanics of the game they're playing.
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what mindark puts on paper means nothing to me
especially considering bonus shrapnel falls into your normal return... its not a bonus at all
 
Xen said:
Misses due to lack of skill ("you missed") do not count towards "input".
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some say now with loot 2.0, as long as you have spent your ammo/decay, it does count towards your input
 
Naomi said:
some say now with loot 2.0, as long as you have spent your ammo/decay, it does count towards your input
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correct, except for skill misses. (unmaxed HA)
 
krogfan said:
How can you say that?? Id say thats untrue, I think spendings is all thats relevant and efficiency??
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Patch notes and MA specifically say Skill Misses go directly into Bonus Loot Pool, if you shoot and it's a skill miss your ammo count goes down but you don't get a miss/dodge/anything, it just goes straight into the air just like if you were shooting into the air in a PVP area (makes sense since they specifically say that PVP related costs like this also go to bonus loot pool)

Apart from that though, costs and efficiency are the relevant factors yes.
 
Did MA kill leeching?

I think not

MA reversed leeching!

If you team today, your efficiency is 80%, and your teammate's is 50%, then your team loot composition will be 65%. So you are loosing your efficiency, and your teammate is leeching efficiency from you.
 
Naomi said:
Did MA kill leeching?

I think not

MA reversed leeching!

If you team today, your efficiency is 80%, and your teammate's is 50%, then your team loot composition will be 65%. So you are loosing your efficiency, and your teammate is leeching efficiency from you.
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Not necessarily, if they did it right then loot is split by cost after efficiency, not just cost, though we would need to have them clarify they set it up this way, since it would be good to know.
 
Just FYI
Tested in Lahar, fired 1 shot in robot, it dodged, i waited and after it got killed i got 0.12 ped shrap.
It fired me twice though but i think armor decay is a lot less than that.
 
timofeJKE said:
Just FYI
Tested in Lahar, fired 1 shot in robot, it dodged, i waited and after it got killed i got 0.12 ped shrap.
It fired me twice though but i think armor decay is a lot less than that.
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and how much did your shot cost?
 
Darkaruki said:
Not necessarily, if they did it right then loot is split by cost after efficiency, not just cost, though we would need to have them clarify they set it up this way, since it would be good to know.
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would be good to know indeed.
 
krogfan said:
How can you say that?? Id say thats untrue, I think spendings is all thats relevant and efficiency??
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Bertha Bot said:
[h=2]Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0[/h]

Loot Changes

  • ..
  • A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants.
    ...
Click to expand...


  • as mentioned by MA ;)
 
Naomi said:
If you team today, your efficiency is 80%, and your teammate's is 50%, then your team loot composition will be 65%. So you are loosing your efficiency, and your teammate is leeching efficiency from you.
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Yeah, this is what I've kinda been asking throughout both threads. I think that the changes to shared loot, bring them in line with how Loot 2.0 was designed to work, which is a good thing for consistency across the community and understanding how loot is distributed. I think just a little more additional information would be beneficial to the community in regards to Shared Loot and Team Hunting.



Based on what MA said:

Bertha Bot said:
New Features
  • Added functionality for missions to track individual contribution upon killing a target.
  • The loot calculation for creatures with shared loot is now based on each avatar’s input, rather than damage. (Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).
=
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I read this as, optimal loot is calculated based your teams (or groups) performance. This would take into account all the parameters outlined in the initial loot 2.0 posts...

Does this mean that it will be the average of eff, dpp, dps and even looter professions? I would love clarification on this.

Reflecting on Loot 2.0:
Bertha Bot said:
[h=2]Developer Notes #11 - Loot 2.0[/h]

[*]Loot calculations will be optimized and improved to better factor in the various costs associated with hunting activity, including: healing, ammo consumption, buffs, tool and armor deterioration, attachments, and more.
[*]A new Economy rating parameter will be introduced, on a scale of 1-100, that indicates the efficiency of a tool and which influences loot calculations.
[*]Avatar skills will play a role in loot calculations and this role will be expanded in future Version Updates. Imagine new professions that offer hunting specialization opportunities and a way to incrementally increase net loot returns for dedicated and active hunters.
[*]Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

Originally Posted Here
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Bertha Bot said:
[h=2]Developer Notes #12 - Loot 2.0 Follow-Up[/h] This installment of Developer Notes attempts to clear up some of the questions and misconceptions related to the Version Update 15.15.0 - Loot 2.0.

Economy Parameter (soon to be renamed Efficiency)
One of the most misunderstood features of Loot 2.0 was the introduction of the Economy parameter and its effect on loot calculations. Based on feedback received via support cases and our monitoring of forum discussions, it appears that one cause of confusion is the use of the term ‘Economy’ for this parameter. As such, the Economy parameter will be renamed to Efficiency in the upcoming patch, which more accurately captures the effect of this parameter. Also in the upcoming patch, the tooltip text for the Efficiency parameter will be changed to the following:

Efficiency indicates the cost-effectiveness of a weapon (or weapon attachment) in creating damage. Efficiency values range from 1-100, and higher values indicate better efficiency. Efficiency is an inherent property of an item, and thus is not affected by avatar skills. Weapons that have scopes, lasers or amplifiers attached will display a modified Efficiency value (in orange).​

A few additional points about Efficiency parameter will hopefully clear up many of the questions and dispel some of the more common misconceptions that we have noticed:
  • The Efficiency parameter is not affected by avatar skills.
  • The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc.
  • The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value).
  • The displayed Efficiency parameter for a given weapon does not correspond to expected overall loot return.

Optimal Loot
Another feature of Loot 2.0 that has sparked lots of discussion and speculation is Optimal Loot.

It is important to note that Optimal Loot only affects loot composition (what you loot), not the loot value (how much you loot). There is no Optimal Loot penalty for hunting creatures that are well below your avatar’s level; in fact most such kills will meet the requirements for Optimal Loot composition.

To best achieve Optimal Loot:
  • Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
  • Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
  • Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.
In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time.

Originally Posted Here
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Alot of self-deprecating socialists in this thread LMAO..

Some testing will need to be done by ubers with nice gear.. But i am anticipating that all ubers will still be doing very well with all of their expensive gear. Don't knock it until you try it :)
 
I think it's pretty clear... If you are planning to hunt shared loot mobs, then don't consume any pills because you will not be compensated for those in shared loot.

For events, pills and buffs of all kinds are still very advantageous.

Nuff said.
 
krogfan said:
How can you say that?? Id say thats untrue, I think spendings is all thats relevant and efficiency??
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It was always the case and even in the patch notes they said they reduced the penalty but that's how the bonus shrapnel is paid, amongst other things. You can say it isn't true, but it's right there in the patch notes and dev notes. Being unmaxed will result in leakage, it is not as damaging as before but you will not be compensated for misses.
 
Naomi, I want to point out something if it helps answer your question if but only indirectly.

Base/Inflated DPP (items, rings, pills) contribute to the quality of loot (i.e. markup) / low TT return %.

Efficiency (gun, amp, scope, sights) contribute to the quantity of loot (i.e. shrapnel) / high TT return %.

So to win in this current meta, you need a HIGH DPP SETUP & HIGH EFFICIENCY which your LP-100 has!

Having rings, buffs, pills etc. plays into the DPP side of things, but the gun is the major part of efficiency.

Now regarding shared mobs and trying to rationalise compensation, everything above still plays its part.

To add further to shared mobs, I strongly believe that anything that does not interact with the mob at any level does not get returned back to you and if it does, at a lower rate of compensation.

This means that pills, enhancers etc and the like would be a very grey area in my opinion as a negative connotation, but then on the positive they do provide higher than average DPP.

Risk/Reward is something people will have to take into further consideration, but as normal hunters do, less MU in = more MU out and increase your chances of profiting long term.
 
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It's funny, a lot of what I believed & practised to be true in hunting has now been validated by official statements. I still think that they've kept how the system functioned before but have only added extra layers and parameters/variables to the matrix.

Gun+Amplifier = Mob Interaction (Gets compensated). Standard practice and knowledge.

Armour+Plate = Mob Interaction (Gets compensated). Standard practice and knowledge.

Scope/Sights = Mob Interaction (Gets compensated). Come with intentional side effects i.e. TT ROI.

Healing Tools = No Interaction (No compensation). MA stated that healing's somehow compensated.

Tamed Pets = No Interaction (No compensation). This is a total luxury item for hunting plus benefits.

Enhancers = No Interaction (No compensation). Enhancers interact with the item, Enh TT perhaps?

Consumable Pills = No Interaction (No compensation). Pills interact with the avatar, Pill TT perhaps?

Going by the above mentioned, I'd hazard a guess that armour/plate is mandatory + uber eco heals.

I'd say using scope & sights boils down to what mob you are hunting if Atrox use them to improve TT.

It seems that having High efficiency = Quantity & High DPP = Condition for the hunting profession.
 
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M Rufen Power said:
Healing Tools = No Interaction (No compensation). MA stated that healing's somehow compensated.
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Wrong!
Tested and healing yourself is compensated.
Its not compensated if you heal others, no loot generated by healing others!
 
GoNi said:
Wrong!
Tested and healing yourself is compensated.
It's not compensated if you heal others, no loot generated by healing others!
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I did mention that if it's compensated wouldn't be full but partial compensation.

If healing produced 50 pecs decay, you will not be receiving 50 pecs on the dot.

To add further to shared mobs, I strongly believe that anything that does not interact with the mob at any level does not get returned back to you and if it does, at a lower rate of compensation.
Click to expand...

Please do read more carefully there next time Goni before jumping the gun...
 
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San said:
The efficiency of the tools you use increases quality, i.e. the chance of getting something other than shraps.
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i humbly want to disagree here:
Charlie MindArk Official 09-29-2017, 14:26
DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP.
Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.
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Ergo:
Efficiency controls the TT quantity of your loot. it adds 0-7% ontop of your base return (base return most likely 90%).

and interesting for Naomi:
DPP, (maybe insanely blown up by FB, rings, pills, et cetera) increases the quality of your loot (-share!).
Naomi gets less shrap, more MU loot, quality of MU increases, while the 2,65 DPP guy next to you gets less MU loot in his share.
 
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I do like your explanation Rufen, but it is not completely true since damage enhancers do increase your ammo consumed, and raise your input, which is compensated in loot.


As far as we know today

input equals loot (= Loot quantity))
Largest part
gun, amp, damage enhancers, reload buffs (they raise your input, which is ammo AND decay)

limited compensation
fap, armor, scope decay,... (they raise your input, which is decay)

Contributing 7%
Weapon efficiency, it could be linear like
efficiency 0 = +0%, efficiency 100 = +7%


efficiency equals mu ( = loot quality)
FB, CDI, Killspeed, gun efficiency give a higher CHANCE on mu loot, it does not state that you actually get it.
 
Naomi said:
I do like your explanation Rufen, but it is not completely true since damage enhancers do increase your ammo consumed, and raise your input, which is compensated in loot.
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Re-read what I said, I probably didnt elaborate property on my statement. I meant the enhancer itself does not interact, but for dmg enhs they of course inflate ammo burn/decay etc. I am talking about when enhancers break. What part of their breakage gets compensated? Because it does not directly but indirectly interact with mobs, their TT value being returned is questionable at best. The inflated base stats from said enhs will of course be returned 100% so they do increase input, absolutely agree with you there.

Naomi said:
As far as we know today

input equals loot (= Loot quantity))
Largest part
gun, amp, damage enhancers, reload buffs (they raise your input, which is ammo AND decay)

limited compensation
fap, armour, scope decay,... (they raise your input, which is decay)

Contributing 7%
Weapon efficiency, it could be linear like
efficiency 0 = +0%, efficiency 100 = +7%

DPP equals MU (= loot quality)
FB, CDI, Killspeed, gun DPP give a higher CHANCE on my loot, it does not state that you actually get it.
Click to expand...
I think that does sound about right...

Some folks have mentioned on the forums that the 7% spread based on DPP is as follows;
93% = 0% efficiency
100% = 100% efficiency
Gap = 7%

Or a more realistic representation would be;
90% = 0% efficiency
97% = 100% efficiency

Give or take on loot variances/variables etc.

Either way, you get the picture...
 
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yes, in that case I agree on the enhancer part Rufen

I would like to elaborate more on the loot composition:
In some cases you can be off worse with higher efficiency:

case A
spending 1000 ped/hour, doing 300mobs/hour, equaling in 3.33ped spent/mob
hitting a 3.5 multiplier, equaling in 11.66 ped.
This loot can contain an esi, if the threshold for esi is 10ped.

Case B
spending 1000 ped/hour, doing 400mobs/hour (buffed up), equalling in 2.5ped spent/mob
hitting the same 3.5 multiplier, equaling in 8.75 ped.
This loot cannot contain an esi, if the threshold for esi is 10ped.

In this case, higher efficiency/dpp, gives lower chance on mu.




(I know, more kills, more chance to get a multiplier, still, less chance per multiplier on certain mu. It won't matter for easter boxes, since their minimal tt is like 0.00 ped?)
 
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MA's release notes:
The loot calculation for creatures with shared loot is now based on each avatar’s input, rather than damage. (Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).

Does this mean that when I hunt in the ffa shared mulmun instance, my optimal loot calculation is lowered to the average of all players in the shared mulmun instances?
 
Naomi said:
MA's release notes:
The loot calculation for creatures with shared loot is now based on each avatar’s input, rather than damage. (Optimal loot is calculated based on the performance of all avatars involved in the creature kill).

Does this mean that when I hunt in the ffa shared mulmun instance, my optimal loot calculation is lowered to the average of all players in the shared mulmun instances?
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I would say its limited to the mob not the instance itself (unless the instance is like a robot instance with one loot at the end). So if you go into an instance with 3 others but shoot different mobs, it will not be affected. If you all shoot the same mob in that instance, then yes it will be lowered.

However this would need to be tested, feel free to verify it.
 
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