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why use FB / CDI

Naomi

Naomi

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Naomi NP Polder
Can anyone at all, please explain me why we would use FB / CDI buffs today?

Until yesterday late night, it was fun to participate in MA shared events, spawning purgers, hydra, big bots etc. Buffing up for it helped. But with the new update, and as it is in solo hunting as well, there seems to be absolutely no further use for FB/CDI (Focused blow, Critical Damage Increase)

FACTS:
- FB / CDI increase your dps, but not your input
- Loot is based on input.
=> FB / CDI do not have effect on your tt-loot

Why, oh why would you want to use pills, rings, scopes etc, in the Summer event?
They don't increase your loot. They do increase your devaluation risk in game however.

When you go fully buffed into the instance you will:
- have killed more mobs/hour
- have the same tt amount of loot/hour

so why? I ask you. Why did we buy all those Accustims and Devastims?


It is mentioned, efficiency has an impact on your loot composition. However that is not proven, neither tested.
I'd like it if you can prove me wrong :)


Weren't events about getting the edge, using all you got, raising your dps?
What are they now?
 
Naomi said:
Weren't events about getting the edge, using all you got, raising your dps?
What are they now?
Click to expand...

Events? Getting the edge, using all you've got, raising your DPS.

Shared Loot and Team Hunting? Shooting big mobs with some friends or strangers, hoping for some nice loots and having a good time.
 
Darkaruki said:
Events? Getting the edge, using all you've got, raising your DPS.

Shared Loot and Team Hunting? Shooting big mobs with some friends or strangers, hoping for some nice loots and having a good time.
Click to expand...

Events:
Raising your dps with FB and CDI does not turn in more loot now, so there is no use for it in events, only Faster Reload does that.
You typically would want more loot in event to get some profit, and to get a better chance in getting mu.

Shared Loot:
when Zeus spawns huge mobs, you would want to raise your dps to get a bigger piece of the pie, which is now no longer possible by using FB or CDI. Those are not compensated by more loot.

So that is why my question remains: why use FB or CDI?
 
Naomi said:
Events:
Raising your dps with FB and CDI does not turn in more loot now, so there is no use for it in events, only Faster Reload does that.
You typically would want more loot in event to get some profit, and to get a better chance in getting mu.

Shared Loot:
when Zeus spawns huge mobs, you would want to raise your dps to get a bigger piece of the pie, which is now no longer possible by using FB or CDI. Those are not compensated by more loot.

So that is why my question remains: why use FB or CDI?
Click to expand...

Like Dark says, improve your DPS for events. This is the main one. There's a cap on reload, so crit hit and dmg gives you dps beyond that.

Improve DPS to take out larger targets faster.

PVP.

Increase DPP for better loot composition. This is the second main one.

Reduce your cost to play, cost to complete iron challenges.

For shared loot, you just need a faster cycle rate for a bigger loot share. Most high level guns have high cycle rates just simply due to high dps. So if you want a bigger share, you can just cycle more faster (damage enhancers for example). Return rate will scale with your cycle rate.

What it won't do is improve your return in terms of TT %. But this was already stated a year ago with the start of loot 2.0.
 
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Naomi said:
Events:
Raising your dps with FB and CDI does not turn in more loot now, so there is no use for it in events, only Faster Reload does that.
You typically would want more loot in event to get some profit, and to get a better chance in getting mu.

Shared Loot:
when Zeus spawns huge mobs, you would want to raise your dps to get a bigger piece of the pie, which is now no longer possible by using FB or CDI. Those are not compensated by more loot.

So that is why my question remains: why use FB or CDI?
Click to expand...

reread your first sentence. you dont make any sense. you say faster reload helps you but more dps through crits dont help? for points you need more looting events so crits help ESSENTIALLY as it lets you kill the mobs A LOT faster.... you really need some sleep
 
Me Really Never said:
reread your first sentence. you dont make any sense. you say faster reload helps you but more dps through crits dont help? for points you need more looting events so crits help ESSENTIALLY as it lets you kill the mobs A LOT faster.... you really need some sleep
Click to expand...

they also need to sell me ranger scope and sight before they sleep

meet @boxes paying tt+1
 
Me Really Never said:
reread your first sentence. you dont make any sense. you say faster reload helps you but more dps through crits dont help? for points you need more looting events so crits help ESSENTIALLY as it lets you kill the mobs A LOT faster.... you really need some sleep
Click to expand...

actually faster reload makes your input higher, so it does help, while FB/CDI does not raise your input.

Secondly, higher tt return/mob may give higher points.
So it's probably better to hunt few mobs @ higher tt-return, then more mobs at lower tt-return each.
 
Naomi said:
actually faster reload makes your input higher, so it does help.
Click to expand...

It does the opposite. Faster reload - less time for regen to occur, less kill cost.

Seriously, go to the WeaponCompareV2, add crits and watch your DPS go up. Events like mayhem aren't about most loot, they're about most points. Your setup is pretty good for winning mayhem events.
 
Slyk said:
It does the opposite. Faster reload - less time for regen to occur, less kill cost.

Seriously, go to the WeaponCompareV2, add crits and watch your DPS go up. Events like mayhem aren't about most loot, they're about most points. Your setup is pretty good for winning mayhem events.
Click to expand...
yes, regen is a factor, but aside from that one:

as stated by MA: loot is BASED ON INPUT
most likely points are also based on INPUT

FB/CDI does not raise input/hour


Reload does raise input/hour
 
Naomi said:
yes, regen is a factor, but aside from that one:

as stated by MA: loot is BASED ON INPUT
most likely points are also based on INPUT

FB/CDI does not raise input/hour


Reload does raise input/hour
Click to expand...

Kinda a stretch to assume points are based on input...You can easily test it though. Use your pistol for the 1st 10hrs of mayhem, use a Swine for the last 10hrs. Should get more points with swine if you're right.
 
example: Every 300 of something you kill on average gives you item X worth 75 ped. If you spend less due to crits/dmg to kill those 300 mobs then the 75 ped is a greater % of your loot.

However, you have to really hunt a lot for a 2% crit ring to be worth 20 or 30k in that example.
 
Xen said:
example: Every 300 of something you kill on average gives you item X worth 75 ped. If you spend less due to crits/dmg to kill those 300 mobs then the 75 ped is a greater % of your loot.

However, you have to really hunt a lot for a 2% crit ring to be worth 20 or 30k in that example.
Click to expand...

actually, according to the latest MA statements, when using FB, you would not get the 75 ped, but less, because your input is lower.
 
Naomi said:
actually, according to the latest MA statements, when using FB, you would not get the 75 ped, but less, because your input is lower.
Click to expand...

An *item* worth 75 ped markup.
 
Naomi said:
please elaborate :)
Click to expand...

16 ped Bio ID

But Xen's statement was more geared towards you looting 1:300 ratio of a Chadriak Mushroom. If you had cheaper kills for those 300 kills, but still maintained a 1:300 ratio of looting this item - which has a 1.00 PED TT value (also fixed :) ) then you would be much better off with cheaper kills via FB.
 
Slyk said:
16 ped Bio ID

But Xen's statement was more geared towards you looting 1:300 ratio of a Chadriak Mushroom. If you had cheaper kills for those 300 kills, but still maintained a 1:300 ratio of looting this item - which has a 1.00 PED TT value (also fixed :) ) then you would be much better off with cheaper kills via FB.
Click to expand...

ok cool, that I understand
would the 1ped tt shroom be deducted from your tt return, which is based on input?
 
Naomi said:
ok cool, that I understand
would the 1ped tt shroom be deducted from your tt return, which is based on input?
Click to expand...

I believe the answer to you directly is Yes. Though, I don't think we will end up with much of an issue there as the cost of a Caperon or Marcimex will pretty much always be 1.00 ped or higher so you'd be fine in this instance. Though, say we're talking Cap youngs and you want as much spleen as possible, unfortunately, if your kills are always under 5ped TT, a base kill will never return spleen oil. You would have to hit a multiplier to get it since your input doesn't cover the cost of the items TT value. In that instance, you be better geared towards higher maturity that do offer base loot items in which kill cost always covers to maximize your potential to loot them.
 
Naomi said:
ok cool, that I understand
would the 1ped tt shroom be deducted from your tt return, which is based on input?
Click to expand...

There was always a trick ubers did to get all the esis to make sure their inputs were higher so that their avg loots were above the 10.20ped or so for an esi instead of only getting that chance on a multiplier roll. If your inputs on marci never get above 1ped, youll never get a shroom unless by a multiplier.

Technically not ubers... anyone who say even the basics of loot mechanics. The input mechanics allow it to be even more exploited.
 
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Naomi said:
Why, oh why would you want to use pills, rings, scopes etc, in the Summer event?
They don't increase your loot. They do increase your devaluation risk in game however.
Click to expand...

Assuming you are referring to the Solo Annihilation category...I would say one would want to use this in order to have an advantage, a chance of getting more points in the same max. 20 hrs that everyone gets...

Naomi said:
as stated by MA: loot is BASED ON INPUT
most likely points are also based on INPUT
Click to expand...

What is your reference for the underlined bit?
If I look at what Bertha (or rather MA) wrote I would interpret that differently:

Bertha Bot said:
Solo Annihilation
A random number of points (1, 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, or 5000) is automatically awarded after defeating one of the event instance mutants.

A 20-hour event timer automates tracking of time spent in the Annihilation instances. Each participant’s final event score is automatically recorded once the 20-hour requirement is reached.
Click to expand...

To me this says that being able to kill more mobs in the same time is an advantage ==> more DPS means higher in your Category.

There is of course the RND that determines the points that you'll get, and I'm sure some people will be more lucky than others since no one will be able to roll the dice enough times, but I don't know if there are people around that have a way around this last "problem, without cheating that is...
And every participant is facing this "problem" in the same way.
 
A lot of good responses, thank you, guys!
 
IvoL said:
Assuming you are referring to the Solo Annihilation category...I would say one would want to use this in order to have an advantage, [I]a chance[/I] of getting more points in the same max. 20 hrs that everyone gets...
Click to expand...

I can't base my gameplay on a chance, but only on real data
 
Naomi said:
I can't base my gameplay on a chance, but only on real data
Click to expand...

Well in events, the more looting opportunities you have, the more points you are likely to get...since the higher point values are based on chance, all you can do is increase the number of chances you get.
Maxing FB and CD with reload and either damager enhancers or accuracy enhancers will give you more looting instances and therefore more points than someone who is not using these...unless of course they get lucky and loot 5K pointers.
 
because it fits here aswell and answers your initial question, i copy my post from the other thread "Shared loot changes":


San said:
The efficiency of the tools you use increases quality, i.e. the chance of getting something other than shraps.
Click to expand...

i humbly want to disagree here:
Charlie MindArk Official 09-29-2017, 14:26
DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP.
Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.
Click to expand...

Ergo:
Efficiency controls the TT quantity of your loot. it adds 0-7% ontop of your base return (base return most likely 90%).

and interesting for Naomi:
DPP, (maybe insanely blown up by FB, rings, pills, et cetera) increases the quality of your loot (-share!).
Naomi gets less shrap, more MU loot, quality of MU increases, while the 2,65 DPP guy next to you gets less MU loot in his share.
 
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Naomi said:
I can't base my gameplay on a chance, but only on real data
Click to expand...
All life is based on a chance... Every day you hop in a car on an interstate you are gambling.
 
I see now why only profit i had in shared was when we got 30k hof :d

Good job Ma
 
Let me get this straight.. You are, an bonafide uber, wondering why higher dps is beneficial in a event? An event which is about killing the most, not looting the most since the points themselves are not included in TT loot?
 
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