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FYI: Healer loot in Shared loot - how it actually works (Tested)

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Saphira Lucky

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So.. I read about how people are freaking out about the new healer loot in shared loot. Possible exploits and yada yada...

So me and Xpl0jd decided that "HEY! Lets actually try this stuff out and see how it REALLY works out on shared."

Item used: Imp fap, decays 2 pec per heal.
Heals per mob: 6 heals.
Healer cost per mob: 12 pec wihout Heal enhancers

Healer only aggro the mob, no shooting or ammo used.
Hunter kills the mob.
Healer ONLY heal him/herself, not the hunter.
No team.

We killed a bunch of shared mobs. Maximum return to healer was 11 pec. Sometimes as low as 3 pec.

Conclusion: There is a max amount that you can get back from the decay and you can not profit from this by only healing, with or without armor. The TT return will always be lower than your TT decay input.

Healer did not receive ANY loot if they only healed the hunter in shared loot.

So who pays the decay? Well, the healer ofc! And in fact, there was a minimum of 1 pec that always went straight to the "lootpool" (or MA, I donno where it goes :p ).

So who profits by these new shared loot healer rules? The hunters. The healer might get some skills and that's about it.

So please, go ahead and go afk at shared loot or heal your butt off.. It will only profit the hunters :woot:



Love,
Saphira
 
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But... you do get pecs returned as a healer. Unlike fapping sweaters to get skills.
If you are a fapper who wants to skill up and doesn't want to wait for hours to get a customer who pays your decay.. This is a valid alternative, you skill up and get some loot returned. I expect a lot of fappers in the future at the feffoid pit.
 
Saphira Lucky said:
The TT return will always be lower than your TT decay input.
Click to expand...

What if TT return from killing that creature is much higher than kill cost, does it affect the healer loot too based on his decay ? Why this number cant exceed TT decay input.
 
Spawn said:
But... you do get pecs returned as a healer. Unlike fapping sweaters to get skills.
If you are a fapper who wants to skill up and doesn't want to wait for hours to get a customer who pays your decay.. This is a valid alternative, you skill up and get some loot returned. I expect a lot of fappers in the future at the feffoid pit.
Click to expand...

There's a difference though.
Healing yourself at shared - you pay your own decay = expensive skills.
Healing job - hunter pay your decay = you profit by at least free skills.

The loot you see that gets returned to you in shared loot is basically the decay you pay when repairing, except you get a lot less back.
 
Kalixt said:
What if TT return from killing that creature is much higher than kill cost, does it affect the healer loot too based on his decay ? Why this number cant exceed TT decay input.
Click to expand...

Because there's a cap set so people can't exploit this new system at shared loot. The cap is set to a maximum of 90-95%(ish) return of the TT decay. Sorry, I didn't get into small numbers and calculated exact % of return.
 
What i would like to see is comparison of total healer input and return versus total hunter input and return. There is nothing unusual that you got no more than 95% if you tested on small number of mobs, I expect same thing to happen to hunter. Only comparison if inputs/returns can prove hunter gets more than healer.
 
Daimon Frey said:
What i would like to see is comparison of total healer input and return versus total hunter input and return. There is nothing unusual that you got no more than 95% if you tested on small number of mobs, I expect same thing to happen to hunter. Only comparison if inputs/returns can prove hunter gets more than healer.
Click to expand...

This. Without comparing healer loot % to hunter loot % you cannot claim there is a cap. The results though were as-I expected, healing in shared loot does not leech from the hunter, it merely gives the healer the chance to recoup decay same as the hunters.
Hunter spends 5 ped on a 2x multiplier with no healer and gets 10 ped loot.
Hunter spends 5 ped on a 2x multiplier and healer heals him/herself for 2 pec, hunter gets 10 ped healer gets 4 pec.
Hunter spends 5 ped on a 2x multiplier and healer heals hunter for 2 pec, hunter gets 10.4 ped healer gets 0 pec.

Personally I feel they did not get it right as the hunter should not reap the reward of the healers' decay as the hunter spent nothing. /shrug

Another question becomes what happens if both are hunting and hunter A heals hunter B? Does hunter A get it since they are now both interacting with the mob unlike above where they only interact with the hunter? Or does hunter B still get the added loot?

Has anyone tested it in a non shared loot team setting? Be interesting to see if there is a difference.
 
Hi all, wanted to share a thought.

If armor and healing decay is returned on loot.
Assuming something between 90%-95%, so let's assume 90%.

So an armor bill of 50 peds will now cost 5 Peds, the remaining 45 are returned in loot.

This means L armor are really bad right now.
A cheap armor of 110% means you doubled the costs of armor decay compared to similar UL.
10% in MU of 50 peds is lost + the real costs 5peds = 10 ped total.

Any clues if this is really the case?
 
So far what I have seen in my tests (teamed not shared mobs), it has nothing to do with % returns!

Example (tested!):

Low Level mob, 10 pec kill cost.
Hunter shoots for 10 pec (decay+ammo), healer heals 5 Pec

Loot is distributed by contribution, so hunter gets 66% of the loot dropped, healer gets 33% of the loot dorpped.
So far I have seen in my test, there is NO cap for the healer loot!
Even had a situation where healerloot was more than the hunters loot, with uneco FAP on small mobs (heal cost higher than kill cost).

Test it yourself, if you don´t believe!

Amor decay seems to be handeled the same way, but thats not properly tested yet.

Sorry OP, testing with an Imp (2 pec/click) on shared that cost several PED to kill, surely does not give much healerloot.
Test it on small Sabakuma (wave), you will get a lot more healerloot there, even with Imp FAp, and then do the test with a FAP 5 pec/click :)
You will be surprised how much healerloot you can get.
 
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GoNi said:
So far what I have seen in my tests (teamed not shared mobs), it has nothing to do with % returns!

Example (tested!):

Low Level mob, 10 pec kill cost.
Hunter shoots for 10 pec (decay+ammo), healer heals 5 Pec

Loot is distributed by contribution, so hunter gets 66% of the loot dropped, healer gets 33% of the loot dorpped.
So far I have seen in my test, there is NO cap for the healer loot!
Even had a situation where healerloot was more than the hunters loot, with uneco FAP on small mobs (heal cost higher than kill cost).

Test it yourself, if you don´t believe!

Ammo decay seems to be handeled the same way, but thats not properly tested yet.

Sorry OP, testing with an Imp (2 pec/click) on shared that cost several PED to kill, surely does not give much healerloot.
Test it on small Sabakuma (wave), you will get a lot more healerloot there, even with Imp FAp, and then do the test with a FAP 5 pec/click :)
You will be surprised how much healerloot you can get.
Click to expand...

I was @ mulaak hunter elite... cost to kill 92 ped.... Healer use mod 2600... he got the brain oil... he looted more then me .....

ON 10h run he's decay was 180 ped and he's loot 190 ped.... and 1st run of 5h he was on + too... I lost that 15h day hunt aprox 2k ped
 
maiden said:
I was @ mulaak hunter elite... cost to kill 92 ped.... Healer use mod 2600... he got the brain oil... he looted more then me .....

ON 10h run he's decay was 180 ped and he's loot 190 ped.... and 1st run of 5h he was on + too... I lost that 15h day hunt aprox 2k ped
Click to expand...

Very interesting indeed
 
maiden said:
I was @ mulaak hunter elite... cost to kill 92 ped.... Healer use mod 2600... he got the brain oil... he looted more then me .....

ON 10h run he's decay was 180 ped and he's loot 190 ped.... and 1st run of 5h he was on + too... I lost that 15h day hunt aprox 2k ped
Click to expand...

I havent been in the plus yet lootwise, and after the hunt I give all I looted to the hunter
 
maiden said:
I was @ mulaak hunter elite... cost to kill 92 ped.... Healer use mod 2600... he got the brain oil... he looted more then me .....

ON 10h run he's decay was 180 ped and he's loot 190 ped.... and 1st run of 5h he was on + too... I lost that 15h day hunt aprox 2k ped
Click to expand...

That sounds strange, and doesn´t fit to what I have observed on the small mobs.
There must be some more things that have effects on healer loot.

Maybe the looter skills, efficency can have this huge impact ??? :scratch2:


Trifle said:
I havent been in the plus yet lootwise, and after the hunt I give all I looted to the hunter
Click to expand...

Sure ModFAP only 1 pec / click, so the impact on loot (contribution) is minimal on big mobs as your contribution is much lower compared to the mentioned Mod2600.
 
Keep posting your experience about shared loot y'all!
 
GoNi said:
That sounds strange, and doesn´t fit to what I have observed on the small mobs.
There must be some more things that have effects on healer loot.

Maybe the looter skills, efficency can have this huge impact ??? :scratch2:
Click to expand...

Nah, it's MA's algorithm to distribute loot in teams/shared sucks. It works fine with 0.01TT stackables but higher the TT per unit of loot dropped, the higher volatility of who gets what.

Me and my friend wanted to do a mission involved hunting a mob we could not kill on our own. So we hunted together each earning 500kills as mission required. We used EXACTLY same weapon and armor. Yet I ended up with 100ped more loot that him. I was on TT profit, he got TT loss. It seems that each stackable is splitted separately so if you loot 1unit of some high TT it goes to one person but that unfair distribution doesn't affect how next stackable (for example shraps) is divided. At least that's how it worked on old team settings, pretty sure it works the same now, MA just calculated contribution differently.

On top of that fapper could be just lucky and had bigger than average contribution on mobs that matter (multis, globals, hofs). That's enough to turn a profit on small sample of globals most likely.
 
Daimon Frey said:
Nah, it's MA's algorithm to distribute loot in teams/shared sucks. It works fine with 0.01TT stackables but higher the TT per unit of loot dropped, the higher volatility of who gets what.

Me and my friend wanted to do a mission involved hunting a mob we could not kill on our own. So we hunted together each earning 500kills as mission required. We used EXACTLY same weapon and armor. Yet I ended up with 100ped more loot that him. I was on TT profit, he got TT loss. It seems that each stackable is splitted separately so if you loot 1unit of some high TT it goes to one person but that unfair distribution doesn't affect how next stackable (for example shraps) is divided. At least that's how it worked on old team settings, pretty sure it works the same now, MA just calculated contribution differently.

On top of that fapper could be just lucky and had bigger than average contribution on mobs that matter (multis, globals, hofs). That's enough to turn a profit on small sample of globals most likely.
Click to expand...

There is literally nothing wrong with how MA splits the loot. Distribution by probability proportionate to cost (before it was damage done) is the only fair way to do it in the long term.

Yes there are short term swings still, but they would have been there anyways had you just been hunting solo.

And just because two players have the same setup, does not mean both players shoot the same amount.
 
maiden said:
I was @ mulaak hunter elite... cost to kill 92 ped.... Healer use mod 2600... he got the brain oil... he looted more then me .....

ON 10h run he's decay was 180 ped and he's loot 190 ped.... and 1st run of 5h he was on + too... I lost that 15h day hunt aprox 2k ped
Click to expand...

When I heal on Proterons, the person I heal generally needs 0-4 heals on the young, 4-8 heals on the mature, 15-25 on the old and 50+ on the Mulman Elite. If he globaled on the old or the Mulman I could easily come out ahead where if he globaled on the Young I might not really see anything. It's all down to luck if the healer comes out ahead or not... kinda like the hunters.

On the Brain Oil, the Mod 2600 is one of the most eco healing tools out there. Maybe that is a consideration for loot distribution? Plus you cite a single example which might have been bad luck, more testing would definitely be needed.
 
Jhereg said:
There is literally nothing wrong with how MA splits the loot. Distribution by probability proportionate to cost (before it was damage done) is the only fair way to do it in the long term.

Yes there are short term swings still, but they would have been there anyways had you just been hunting solo.

And just because two players have the same setup, does not mean both players shoot the same amount.
Click to expand...

We not only had same setup but also same amount of kills confirmed by mission counter. I know it doesn't mean that we done exact same dmg but it was close one for sure as we both killed exactly 500 each with over 50% dmg dealt. And on 2k ped cycled, our results were 100ped off. 1k kills is not big sample but not that small either - things like items/1 unit high tt stackables/minis distribution creates volatility even with exact input. Something to be aware of.
 
Suza said:
When I heal on Proterons, the person I heal generally needs 0-4 heals on the young, 4-8 heals on the mature, 15-25 on the old and 50+ on the Mulman Elite. If he globaled on the old or the Mulman I could easily come out ahead where if he globaled on the Young I might not really see anything. It's all down to luck if the healer comes out ahead or not... kinda like the hunters.

On the Brain Oil, the Mod 2600 is one of the most eco healing tools out there. Maybe that is a consideration for loot distribution? Plus you cite a single example which might have been bad luck, more testing would definitely be needed.
Click to expand...

Happed only once.... was just a point to tell from what I saw.... It happen on big mobs on swirls that healer get stackables.... like the liver oil.... each swirl over 200 ped with liver oil (on mulmun clan leader elite), healer got liver ... So yes loot is shared no matter stackable or not. Now.... like on shared loot..... where a noob with opalo can loot an esi.... what you do when healer start loot esis.... and that ok u can see on normal mobs... but instance is shared.... what u do then ? I will take in team from now on only healers I know... and I used a healer all the time I hunt almost because I usually select next target while grinding and watching a movie... else too damn boring... In my opinion is quite a bad move. Ok, I agree the ideea that healer should not risk to be scammed and that he should get paid but... from ammo ... not with items .... NO WAY ! (so far all esis - I talk about em couse are small tt 10-20 peds... went to me..... but who know in future....)
 
Daimon Frey said:
We not only had same setup but also same amount of kills confirmed by mission counter. I know it doesn't mean that we done exact same dmg but it was close one for sure as we both killed exactly 500 each with over 50% dmg dealt. And on 2k ped cycled, our results were 100ped off. 1k kills is not big sample but not that small either - things like items/1 unit high tt stackables/minis distribution creates volatility even with exact input. Something to be aware of.
Click to expand...

happens all the time with mobs that give brain heart spleen .... and even the other oils over 2 ped ... always when odd number of oils 1 from team get +1....
 
ah well, if you want to get rid of the non tt-able faps that you never ever use then this is your chance to get some pecs and skills out of it ;)
 
Just wondering, did anybody tested healer loot for healing between mobs. I understand that loot is returned when you heal during fight but what happens when I heal after mob kill before next one attack me? Would be great to test that:
a) that heal cost is not returned
b) that heal cost is returned on next mob attacked
 
Daimon Frey said:
Just wondering, did anybody tested healer loot for healing between mobs. I understand that loot is returned when you heal during fight but what happens when I heal after mob kill before next one attack me? Would be great to test that:
a) that heal cost is not returned
b) that heal cost is returned on next mob attacked
Click to expand...

Did a quick test on that:

Testsetup, healer aggroed a mob (non shooting, not healing on this mob), then teammate killed the mob.
Healer healed himself after kill and befor next mob gets tagged, next mob killed no healerloot.

There is no healerloot for inbetween heals.

Edit:
Did another quick test:

Shooter kills mob and gets damage.
Healer heals him after kill and befor next mob is tagged.
Next mob, no healerloot

There is no healerloot for inbetween heals aswell

Now can´t say if this decay on FAP isn´t returned at all or it contributes to the hunters loot.
To test that it would need another setup and a large number of kills, to see if average loot goes up for the hunter if he always gets in between heals.
At least we see its not returned to healer directly.
Maybe it just counts towards that bonus loots we occationally get (double sharpnels).
 
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GoNi said:
Did a quick test on that:

Testsetup, healer aggroed a mob (non shooting, not healing on this mob), then teammate killed the mob.
Healer healed himself after kill and befor next mob gets tagged, next mob killed no healerloot.

There is no healerloot for inbetween heals.
Click to expand...

Just to make sure, second mob hitted healer at least once before teammate killed it?

Good to know there is no healer loot for in-between heals. I won't do that anymore :(
 
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