Suggestion: Auto Loot Pet - Test Review for Devs

Hey Devs;

I recently unlocked a Wasp Devil and tried out the auto loot on LT's at Mino using swords (so basically all close combat). I believe it's 5m for auto loot on that Wasp pet.

What I noticed is quite often the auto loot didn't activate in close combat. Possibly due to the postion of the pet which hangs behind the avatar and maybe the size of LT's (the total distance is more than 5m). In other words I had to move to activate the autoloot, which often is a pain when slicing multiple LT's attacking at the same time.

Is it possible that you folks can adjust the coding so the autoloot activates from the distance of the player to the lootable mob rather than the distance from the pet? Similar to using autoloot pills.

Just trying to offer solutions to improve the game.

Cheers

Rick

ditch those autoloot pets.

the current cost for the active (5m only!) effect are way higher than the 50pec costs of a standard loot pill (25m!) for the same one hour duration.

a nice-to-have effect, but i dont see why i shall pay 250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect.
set aside you paid hundreds of peds to unlock this shitty effect.

i would start thinking about it, if it wasnt 5m, but 50m loot range.

Orion said:

ditch those autoloot pets.

the current cost for the active (5m only!) effect are way higher than the 50pec costs of a standard loot pill (25m!) for the same one hour duration.

a nice-to-have effect, but i dont see why i shall pay 250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect.
set aside you paid hundreds of peds to unlock this shitty effect.

i would start thinking about it, if it wasnt 5m, but 50m loot range.

Click to expand...

Great! Thanks for this info because I have been thinking about pets vs pils for a while now.

So, better stick to pills then.

The range starts from the avatar, not the pet, or you would hardly loot anything. The problem is 5m is outside the attack range of many weapons/mobs including melee. I sent a support case about this a long time ago but it seems it was ignored.

wizz said:

Great! Thanks for this info because I have been thinking about pets vs pils for a while now.

So, better stick to pills then.

Click to expand...

I don't think pets buffs should be considered a simple black and white issue though. After adding around 1.1m xp to my pets, I'm almost certain cost to some degree is returned in loot. If you measured the cost of those bars to gain well over a million xp, I'm pretty sure I didn't pay that TOTAL cost in deposits.

I also did some experiments to try and understand if a level 50 top end pet, has an advantage over a level 30 pet high end pet, with respects to returns based on xp growth. I've got mixed feelings about it, but something is happening under the hood.

I've not really given autoloot pets enough testing out there (one reason it took me a long time to unlock one). I'm more interested with taming/pet handler skill gain pets and the impact on hunting returns. Most pets have those buffs, for a very good reason.

Many people discard pets as useless although both Taming and Pet Handler Professions include "General" HP growing skills, such as Courage, perception, dexterity etc. It's been 'suggested' for years that HP or more 'speed of HP growth', may have an impact on returns.

So it begs the question, that if running a pet whist hunting or mining for that matter, should return a skill bonus at least on "general" skills. I do love to try and work out how MA think.

MA love to throw in curve balls at us. i.e. to achieve something of value you do the opposite of what normal human behavour would suggest. Hunting with no armour v hunting with is a great example of that "send them in another direction". But HP management is often what determines your loot (look at HP like crafting on quantity or condition). Interesting right!!!! Smiles. It's one reason, I've said HP rings should be incredibly valuable....but thats another debate.

Now taking into account HP as above, now think about that using a pet with say 2% crit reduction. It could be difference between getting a hof of 1000 or 1200, based on what your HP was at the time of looting. Work that out of 10's thousands of looting opportunities, and it's likely to have a great impact indeed.

Now back to autoloot pets, it would be interesting to use one at Level 50 and see how it behaved out there.

Pets do a lot more than players give them justice for.....but what do I know

Rick

Two questions come to mind.

1. Do pets give more "Looter" skills due to their consumption of nutrios over time?
Most skills increase to a large extent depending on how much TT is spent on them. In the current race to the top of the looter skills, this could be a distinct advantage.

2. In the calculation of buffs contributing to the loot on an individual mob, is the cost of the buff counted in real-time as it's being consumed, or is it amortized over time?
If the buff is counted only at the time the PED is spent, then the pill effects 1 loot event - assuming you consume it during combat with the mob and not before or after. Whereas the pets would effect all loot events due to the pet's energy level decreasing over time rather than all at once.
Of course, this then also begs a third question - when is the cost of the autoloot buff counted? At the time you feed the pet, or at the time the energy is consumed?


My guess is that the pets were designed the way they were intentionally and for a specific purpose.

Captain Jack said:

Two questions come to mind.

1. Do pets give more "Looter" skills due to their consumption of nutrios over time?
Most skills increase to a large extent depending on how much TT is spent on them. In the current race to the top of the looter skills, this could be a distinct advantage.

2. In the calculation of buffs contributing to the loot on an individual mob, is the cost of the buff counted in real-time as it's being consumed, or is it amortized over time?
If the buff is counted only at the time the PED is spent, then the pill effects 1 loot event - assuming you consume it during combat with the mob and not before or after. Whereas the pets would effect all loot events due to the pet's energy level decreasing over time rather than all at once.
Of course, this then also begs a third question - when is the cost of the autoloot buff counted? At the time you feed the pet, or at the time the energy is consumed?


My guess is that the pets were designed the way they were intentionally and for a specific purpose.

Click to expand...

Now that is a very interesting thought process, since pets came before looter skill. I agree you get more looter skill from an LT than say a smaller mob. That is not always true though with very small mobs, say L2. The engery consumption of a pet plus its level would impact on the fly cost spent yes between looting opportunities. So sure you have a very good point about looter skill gain in that respect. That requires some testing.

The system for sure remembers bars consumed, and stacks cost until you're ready to loot it back. Anyone that has "only" skilled a pet for many levels, with no other spending activity at all, should hof that cost back. I'm not sure about forced training, i.e. wasted bars at low focus. The system might only pay back xp gained as a measure of cost. So wasting bars would give back lower xp gained, I doubt the system would pay back for wastage.

I've done 1000's of checks feeding pets 'lots of bars' near end of runs to see if it would count in loot return on the next lootable opportunity. I get the impression though that XP gained during the hunt, has more of an advantage than feeding. You can only get really big xp gain, by using top end pets that are at higher levels.

Hence why I think MA dumped loads of pink bunnies on the market in boxes. Lets also remember that MA measure distance travelled. We know that becasue when entering RT years ago, you used to get records of acheivements, and distance travelled was one of them. I think MA changed this though as a mixure of speed and distance. i.e speed rings and pets do something under the hood.

One reason I'm not a fan of instances, because you dont move around much. So although a speed bunny doesn't give skil gain, it will allow you to cover greater distances during your hunt. Measure that against the energy burned and I'm sure there's something in the loot algorithum that accounts for that.

Rick

Orion said:

ditch those autoloot pets.

the current cost for the active (5m only!) effect are way higher than the 50pec costs of a standard loot pill (25m!) for the same one hour duration.

a nice-to-have effect, but i dont see why i shall pay 250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect.
set aside you paid hundreds of peds to unlock this shitty effect.

i would start thinking about it, if it wasnt 5m, but 50m loot range.

Click to expand...

cheers, thanks for the math m8

I'd like to second this request, but for the next target functions, since they are broken.

Something changed right around spring mayhem debacle, and now the next target selects the mob closest to the camera (I am 3d person zoomed out as far as possible) ....which is further back than the player, meaning most of the time the next target is behind me, even if one is right on my face. Essentially broken, I have been selecting targets with the mouse since spring.

I would be willing to bet the same mechanic or similar is at play here.

The actions seem to be based on the camera location, and not the player, and this should be changed back.


As far as the return of pets....like all things in this game... decay or stuff spent, is added in the return calculation in some manner.

Orion said:

ditch those autoloot pets.

the current cost for the active (5m only!) effect are way higher than the 50pec costs of a standard loot pill (25m!) for the same one hour duration.

a nice-to-have effect, but i dont see why i shall pay 250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect.
set aside you paid hundreds of peds to unlock this shitty effect.

i would start thinking about it, if it wasnt 5m, but 50m loot range.

Click to expand...

I would also be more inclined to use any type of auto-loot if it didn't lag out and take 2 minutes to overcome the lag, and I have to manually loot anyway. 5m? Forget it, I'll loot it myself.

Orion said:

ditch those autoloot pets.

the current cost for the active (5m only!) effect are way higher than the 50pec costs of a standard loot pill (25m!) for the same one hour duration.

a nice-to-have effect, but i dont see why i shall pay 250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect.
set aside you paid hundreds of peds to unlock this shitty effect.

i would start thinking about it, if it wasnt 5m, but 50m loot range.

Click to expand...

Oratan Axe is 45 m once you get it unlocked. (still working on getting mine up to the level required to unlock it... we are approaching that level slowly - I do slow skill on pets, only doing tricks when he's at 99% or 100% focus... makes it take a lot longer to up the level, but it keeps it from burning through a ton of nutrio for no reason (low exp return) due to lack of focus)

I agree though slightly... make the lower range ones go up to at least be what the TT offers in range... or perhaps up them to 50 m, and up the axe's to 100 m (or whatever the longest range in meters is that the highest range gun in game can do)

wizz said:

Great! Thanks for this info because I have been thinking about pets vs pils for a while now.

So, better stick to pills then.

Click to expand...

Primary advantage of the pet vs the pill is the longer duration. 1 hour sounds like a long time, but in EU, you know as well as we all do that one hour can fly by like nothing. You could just pop more pills, but bleh, they ain't tasty.

If you do plan to get an autoloot pet, best to buy it sooner rather than later since upping the criteria required bar is a time consuming thing to do. If you are burning through all those pills, you may as well have the pet so that the pills will help you do that. I think each pill eaten upped the criteria bar by about .3% til it got to 100% for me. I suspect all autoloot pets are the same way since they all are 'hard' training pets... Each tt pill is a 1 hour effect. The ones from boxes are a bit longer 1 hour 15 minutes if I remember correctly... Your avatar has to technically be logged in to burn through that hour for each pill to unlock the criteria bar since the effect pauses if you log out... so it takes roughly 300 hours of being logged in with your autloot pet spawned when you eat the pills (not sure it's exactly 300 or just close to that rounded either up or down a bit) (don't think he has to be out after the pill is eaten, but it helps if he's low level since you want to up his level to the minimum required level to unlock the buff. You DO have to have pet spawned when your avatar eats the pill for the criteria bar to move along though.)...

Most of us are online over 300 hours a year anyways, but just saying, if you are eating the pills may as well apply the cost of those towards unlocking the criteria on the pet... especially if you are a tamer and have more than one of the autloot pets that you need to unlock the criteria on...

RickEngland said:

What I noticed is quite often the auto loot didn't activate in close combat. Possibly due to the postion of the pet which hangs behind the avatar and maybe the size of LT's (the total distance is more than 5m). In other words I had to move to activate the autoloot, which often is a pain when slicing multiple LT's attacking at the same time.

Click to expand...

not sure if the effect is really tied to range of pet from avatar or from range of avatar. I always thought ranges were based on avatar since Mindark probably doesn't track too closely where the pet is...but on the other hand, perhaps it is range of pet? I do notice pets get 'stuck' a lot though, often disappearing in to landscape etc., so if it is range of pet, that's pretty stupid coding on Mindark's part, lol. I do agree with other poster that it's probably range of where avatar is vs where the target critter is at time of death that has bigger impact. 5m isn't very far reach in game at all.

I suspect the pet being there is just a visual thing, not an actual thing though since they basically are just nothing but animations, hence the reason there are a lot of visual bugs with them, like if you run in to a service center or auction house in mall, etc., the animation of pet will get 'stuck' at the doorway, and if you despawn it and respawn it and travel back to that same 'dead spot' for the pet by the doorway, he'll clone himself... (very similar to furniture clone bug that allows things to hang in midair due to shitty coding of the place command - I suspect/assume that both of those glitches have to do with Mindark's use of the back buffer in the game engine coding and how they use it to locate where pet was, or where furniture was vs where it will be, etc. - Mindark please don't let that glitch go away since it makes interior decorating actually be fun, lol. If you do away with it, at least give us option to increase Z axis when placing things instead of just x/y axis. Creating visually interesting displays in apartment requires more than simply putting things on floors)

forgo said:

I'd like to second this request, but for the next target functions, since they are broken.

Something changed right around spring mayhem debacle, and now the next target selects the mob closest to the camera (I am 3d person zoomed out as far as possible) ....which is further back than the player, meaning most of the time the next target is behind me, even if one is right on my face. Essentially broken, I have been selecting targets with the mouse since spring.

I would be willing to bet the same mechanic or similar is at play here.

The actions seem to be based on the camera location, and not the player, and this should be changed back.


As far as the return of pets....like all things in this game... decay or stuff spent, is added in the return calculation in some manner.

Click to expand...

I like it how it is, and I don't think it changed. I want to be able to raise my line of sight with third person and target over terrain and objects with third person. If you want to target from the avatar then play first person.

mastermesh said:

not sure if the effect is really tied to range of pet from avatar or from range of avatar. I always thought ranges were based on avatar since Mindark probably doesn't track too closely where the pet is...but on the other hand, perhaps it is range of pet? I do notice pets get 'stuck' a lot though, often disappearing in to landscape etc., so if it is range of pet, that's pretty stupid coding on Mindark's part, lol. I do agree with other poster that it's probably range of where avatar is vs where the target critter is at time of death that has bigger impact. 5m isn't very far reach in game at all.

I suspect the pet being there is just a visual thing, not an actual thing though since they basically are just nothing but animations, hence the reason there are a lot of visual bugs with them, like if you run in to a service center or auction house in mall, etc., the animation of pet will get 'stuck' at the doorway, and if you despawn it and respawn it and travel back to that same 'dead spot' for the pet by the doorway, he'll clone himself... (very similar to furniture clone bug that allows things to hang in midair due to shitty coding of the place command - I suspect/assume that both of those glitches have to do with Mindark's use of the back buffer in the game engine coding and how they use it to locate where pet was, or where furniture was vs where it will be, etc. - Mindark please don't let that glitch go away since it makes interior decorating actually be fun, lol. If you do away with it, at least give us option to increase Z axis when placing things instead of just x/y axis. Creating visually interesting displays in apartment requires more than simply putting things on floors)

Click to expand...

As you say the pet is only an animation. Maybe the spawn point is remembered as the "real" distance. A pet can spawn everywhere around you. Maybe you need the pet to spawn right in front of you, to get the best autoloot effect?

Spawn said:

As you say the pet is only an animation. Maybe the spawn point is remembered as the "real" distance. A pet can spawn everywhere around you. Maybe you need the pet to spawn right in front of you, to get the best autoloot effect?

Click to expand...

Like I said, loot distance is from the avatar, not where the pet appears to be.

Xen said:

Like I said, loot distance is from the avatar, not where the pet appears to be.

Click to expand...

You did a test?

Spawn said:

You did a test?

Click to expand...

Sort of, I've used an autoloot pet on numerous occasions and if it looted only 5m from the position of the pet then most mobs wouldn't have looted with the pet usually behind me unless you are right in the face of the mob.

Hey guys! i have a question about the autoloot pets:

1) How many time the autoloot buff can be active continually with a pet full feed?

2) How much expensive is one hour this buff activated?

and the last question...

3) The use of the pet buff is compensated in the loot or its an uncompensated expense?


Thank you for the info!

RDD said:

Hey guys! i have a question about the autoloot pets:

1) How many time the autoloot buff can be active continually with a pet full feed?

2) How much expensive is one hour this buff activated?

and the last question...

3) The use of the pet buff is compensated in the loot or its an uncompensated expense?


Thank you for the info!

Click to expand...

1) I think you asked the wrong question as how many "times" would depend on how many "kills" you can make while your pet is out.

If you meant "How long would the buff last"... each pet is different; While all auto-loot pets cost an added 60 energy/hr, they have different max energy limits.

Eudorian Wasp Devil - 2500 max energy - 18 base energy cost - 2500/78 = 32.05 hours
Eudorian Lava Devil - 5000 max energy - 18 base energy cost - 5000/78 = 64.1 hours
Mountsin Gorilla - 4000 max energy - 20 base energy cost - 4000/80 = 50 hours
Atrox Sapphire Pup - 600 max energy - 15 base energy cost - 600/75 = 8 hours

2) there are 2 answers to this depending on whether you look at total cost of the pet being out or the added cost of activating the skill.

Since we know the skill is 60 energy/hr and someone above said "250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect." we know an auto-loot pill is .5p that would seem to indicate 1.25p per hour which would seem to indicate 1 nutrio bar = 1 energy as 60 bars at 200% mu would be 1.20p

Total cost... again, different per pet - with energy use per hour at 75/78/80 per hour that would = 75/78/80 nutrio bars or .75/.78/.80 ped TT per hour or 1.50/1.56/1.60 ped per hour at 200% MU Looks pretty close.

3) no idea, but at 2 pec per minute it's not going to affect it much unless you are hunting HUGE mobs which would be kind of counter-intuitive to using the pet.

Suza said:

1) I think you asked the wrong question as how many "times" would depend on how many "kills" you can make while your pet is out.

If you meant "How long would the buff last"... each pet is different; While all auto-loot pets cost an added 60 energy/hr, they have different max energy limits.

Eudorian Wasp Devil - 2500 max energy - 18 base energy cost - 2500/78 = 32.05 hours
Eudorian Lava Devil - 5000 max energy - 18 base energy cost - 5000/78 = 64.1 hours
Mountsin Gorilla - 4000 max energy - 20 base energy cost - 4000/80 = 50 hours
Atrox Sapphire Pup - 600 max energy - 15 base energy cost - 600/75 = 8 hours

2) there are 2 answers to this depending on whether you look at total cost of the pet being out or the added cost of activating the skill.

Since we know the skill is 60 energy/hr and someone above said "250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect." we know an auto-loot pill is .5p that would seem to indicate 1.25p per hour which would seem to indicate 1 nutrio bar = 1 energy as 60 bars at 200% mu would be 1.20p

Total cost... again, different per pet - with energy use per hour at 75/78/80 per hour that would = 75/78/80 nutrio bars or .75/.78/.80 ped TT per hour or 1.50/1.56/1.60 ped per hour at 200% MU Looks pretty close.

3) no idea, but at 2 pec per minute it's not going to affect it much unless you are hunting HUGE mobs which would be kind of counter-intuitive to using the pet.

Click to expand...

Wow thank you for you answer mate! I asked this because a guy told me that the autoloot skill only can be used the buff for 30 minutes active and stopped working, so he had to dismiss the pet and spawned again. Idk why, but he told me this maybe 1 year ago. I am interested on buy 2 of them, maybe 2 mountain gorillas, someone have pets with activated buff for sell? And price?

Thank you for your help!! I appreciate!

RDD said:

Wow thank you for you answer mate! I asked this because a guy told me that the autoloot skill only can be used the buff for 30 minutes active and stopped working, so he had to dismiss the pet and spawned again. Idk why, but he told me this maybe 1 year ago. I am interested on buy 2 of them, maybe 2 mountain gorillas, someone have pets with activated buff for sell? And price?

Thank you for your help!! I appreciate!

Click to expand...

Hey.. selling a Level 17 mountian gorilla autoloot unlocked for 1k ped.. message me ingame .. hippy ricky rickster..

Cheers !!

RDD said:

... I am interested on buy 2 of them, maybe 2 mountain gorillas, someone have pets with activated buff for sell? And price?

Thank you for your help!! I appreciate!

Click to expand...

Hi,

Today I unlocked the very first Legendary [Leprechaun Gold Pet] (1 of 2 ingame) for the 32 meter Autoloot buff (buff was unlocked at lvl30). I'm looking for a price range between 3k - 4k for it (willing to consider items & deeds in trade as well; Peds preferred). PM if interested, thank you.

Orion said:

ditch those autoloot pets.

the current cost for the active (5m only!) effect are way higher than the 50pec costs of a standard loot pill (25m!) for the same one hour duration.

a nice-to-have effect, but i dont see why i shall pay 250% more per hour to gain 80% less effect.
set aside you paid hundreds of peds to unlock this shitty effect.

i would start thinking about it, if it wasnt 5m, but 50m loot range.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right regarding the economics of pill versus pet here, but there are 2 distinct advantages you are choosing to ignore in your bias:

1. Pets give Skills, pills do not.

2. A pet can be dismissed when you are done your hunting run, the pill cannot be paused or stopped and will keep going until the 1 hour is spent, whether you are hunting or not. So if you consume an autoloot pill and 20 minutes later run out of ammo or ped and stop hunting, you just wasted 67% of the cost of the pill.

Legends

PS: Pet looting range issues will be resolved when MA release their new in-world camera system.

mastermesh said:

I agree though slightly... make the lower range ones go up to at least be what the TT offers in range... or perhaps up them to 50 m, and up the axe's to 100 m (or whatever the longest range in meters is that the highest range gun in game can do)

Click to expand...

I'd love the Atrox to get a little animation, i.e. when there is a mob killed, it will run to it and pick up the loot with a nick of its head. Similar for other autoloot pets. There should be no range limitation, this being their distinctive advantage over the pills (and over rings which don't have operating cost) and justifying their price and running expenses.