The perfect crime - raising the odds

Imagine you have been in EU for many years, knowing the ins and outs of the game. Maybe sustaining losses after losses, with an occasional 4- or 5-figure in loot, yet, there are many who never gained the opportunity of overall time profit, due to never hitting 5-figured loots, (like myself). This can be due to many reasons, such as short hunts, unlucky timings, mob choices, area choosing, game changes rendering investments useless, being outplayed by exploiters and others,...

How do you raise the odds? You could increase activity. Increasing activity will hugely raise your chances to hit that big one, that balances out the losses, and even may turn the excel sheet in your favor.

There are but so many hours in a day available to the common man. You may become a basement slave to EU if you wish. Still it is easier to share efforts:

- you could hire one or two people to play on your account.

The odds have just doubled in your favor. Yet there can be gained more, waay more, towards the greedy way of profit.

- you could get more accounts, and even more people to play them.

(use different isp's or vpns to hide the real ip)

It is quite easy to come to agreements with people holding top level avatars, who are bored with EU for different reasons, or have chosen to spend time to real life. With updates of a copy of their passports, the promise of some profit each year for it, they will happily cooperate.

Now you have 3 or 4 computers in your garage, a bar with beverages and a BBQ outside. Perhaps unemployed friends or others are happy to put in the hours for you for not much more then food and beverages, after all, EU is some fun.

Now you have 12 people playing in your little sweatshop. You will not have 12x its losses, because your chances to hit the items, hofs and even ath's have huuuuugely increased, and you will get them regularly now, compared to the common man who plays EU outside of his working hours.

Let's raise the activity to events. With only 1.5x the investments for 3 accounts or more, it is much easier to acquire top level gear, and secure, perhaps more then 1, place in the events. Profits to be for the original organizer, with a share for each of his garage gamers

Maybe this is already being done, with so many non-original accounts getting top spots. Maybe 1 of the 10.000 active players, someone is outsmarting the game system, on the backs of the 99.99%.

Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

Naomi said:

Now you have 12 people playing in your little sweatshop. You will not have 12x its losses, because your chances to hit the items, hofs and even ath's have huuuuugely increased, and you will get them regularly now, compared to the common man who plays EU outside of his working hours.

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... but EU is a greedy bitch, so your chances to lose 12x as much as befor are very real !!!

You'll get busted eventually.


And that's a promise.

well about purchase avatars thats kinda old and ma not seen to care much look at linzey still winning with stryker this is abit old news ma seen to be ok with it


and bibazz still using max hunter avatar like i say nothing change

Mega said:

You'll get busted eventually.


And that's a promise.

Click to expand...

Not at all. You just wont be able to withdrawal when you cant pass the id check. But I know personally of a couple avatars that got sold (because rhe original person told me so as they exited) and I know a few beloved avatars that get cited are in fact not the originals. Also know that people do outsource their accounts to grind for them because 1) it has either been openly admitted in the forum 2) said so to me in chat but in secret (still have chat log) and 3) the folks who are actually doing the outsourcing wanted to offer their services to me for a small sum (person was in philippines and known) and PM was on PCF.

Needlesstosay, a lot of folks are being rather disingenous in denying their origins on the forums but then I cannot really blame them either.

They need to lock the gear to mayhem instances so the same gun cant compete and place in multiple accounts.

I pledge to never allow anyone to use my account to collect sweat but me !

Since 2.0 implementation the odds for many existing players have been further reduced by blatant favourising of newbies (or newly created accounts)

in addition to

Having an alt armies already that can be activated every 6 months or so for the welcome back hofs.

Always got shouted down complaining about noobs getting 4 digit hits on kerbs. Killed in so big numbers yada yada, of course kerbs throw some bigger drops every now n then yada yada.

Now looking at migration big hits so far there are also lotsa folks with <30 /40 /50k total hunting loot on EL and keep hitting it big.

There's no more question in my mind that account creation date and/or last log on date greatly & disproportionally impact chance of multies. Which is super demotivating. I'd even go as far as calling it fraudulent.

MA making some players pay for MA marketing efforts to secure new players or regain reluctant come backers.

It's sickening to have a noob standing next to you doing Big Togo. Outgunning that guy be 3-1 kills. Even with healer he's dying twice every mob. Yet hof & countless globals going his way. I got shit. Experienced these anecdotes so often after 2.0

Hope MA see the wrongs in that approach since I doubt it has really helped a growth & retention.

Noobs going for Big Togo, Big LT & Eomon? Solo? Big amps on finder and straight off to FOMA?

Which actual noob does that?

Why give incentive to not log in for months to increase chance of welcome back hof? Some users just set up another account and play with that in the meantime. Merry go-around all year to skim those welcome back hofs off the top.

With all the other things MA staged over the recent past I'm starting to wonder if it's really just enhanced noob luck & alt armies.

May be also bots? Who's running those? What are their ties to MA? Sorry but all the unscrupulous shit MA pulled off lately I'm not putting anything past them any longer.

LuisArkadov said:

It's sickening to have a noob standing next to you doing Big Togo. Outgunning that guy be 3-1 kills. Even with healer he's dying twice every mob. Yet hof & countless globals going his way. I got shit. Experienced these anecdotes so often after 2.0

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yap, I know that feeling all too well

well, I never understood people who actually thought to just profit by hunting mobs.

Lootius has never been favorable to me either. But that already started in 2005.
So I learned rather quickly to not just grind like a madman if you don't want to deposit.
If you want to profit, you have to use the entire universe, not just auto-clicking mobs (or getting RSI before auto clicking was even introduced).

Sure, I had been proven wrong, since some folks with the right gear did profit by just hunting mobs during loot 1.0.
But that leak had been closed by MA with loot 2.0.

Somehow, after all these years people still think that they can profit just by clicking mobs. But how can you be so ignorant? If this was the standard, how long do you think this game could survive?

Still, it is possible to profit. But you look further then just the auto-click button.
It's a RCE. It has an entire economy. And this economy reaches far further then just the mobs out there.


And about your lack of 5 digit hofs, well, all I can say that it's just a matter of luck, or in your case, a lack of it, since I know you do have the kill count and mob size to deserve one!
Some folks never ever win a price in the lottery, while there are people who've won the jackpot, twice!


(And PS, in case Maiden shows up, I'm not talking about SWEATING as a way to profit!)

This thread is not about my ava, but thx for mentioning it
It's about the system being milked successfully by a few, reducing opportunities for many.

Imho locking weapons (f.i. each 20 days, if you want to shoot it) would solve a LOT.

Naomi said:

This thread is not about my ava, but thx for mentioning it
It's about the system being milked successfully by a few, reducing opportunities for many.

Imho locking weapons (f.i. each 20 days, if you want to shoot it) would solve a LOT.

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Well, I'm not convinced this is actually true or just a false perception.

*edit*
lol, already found it hard to believe you never had a 5 digit hof

it's about the motivation for competition of everyone.

I know 30-40 ppl who participated in mayhem, but not with the intention of getting a prize. Just for fun, or with the chance of hitting something nice.

I know TWICE that amount of ppl who refused to participate in mayhem, because of what is mentioned in the OP.


Think in terms of:
Imagine 2 good friends, having accumulated a decent account during the years, and having bought top gear.
Imagine now those 2 friends, buying up 4 uber accounts each to function as alts.

So the 2 players participate in total 10 times in mayhem, possibly securing around 7 places in the top10.

They did: 2x investments (sharing gear over their alts), and render 5x the profit.
They pushed 5 other avatars out of the top10
They discouraged about half of the cat10 to actually participate...
The same goes for other categories.

Secondly:
Renting out gear as a profession is:
1 - an opportunity for rich ppl who don't want to invest time to actually play
2 - ruining the economy and value of items. If you'd need to actually own an item, instead of having connections, or renting one, to grow towards the top in events, the demand would be higher.
3 - ruining the chances of people with gear that are not top3, since top3 items are shared over 10-20 people.

You forgot one thing. MA says "A 97% return is good if you hunt by the new eco looting system" and I would think by that statement they are saying the cost to play the game is 3% for all this fun. I think that means at least a 3% loss is built into the code and if you do things that are not eco it is even more of a loss. Just my opinion.

Las Vegas is full of broke people with a system that was sure to win. The only one that actually worked was counting cards in Black Jack and that was outlawed by the Casinos.

atomicstorm said:

Not at all. You just wont be able to withdrawal when you cant pass the id check. But I know personally of a couple avatars that got sold (because rhe original person told me so as they exited) and I know a few beloved avatars that get cited are in fact not the originals. Also know that people do outsource their accounts to grind for them because 1) it has either been openly admitted in the forum 2) said so to me in chat but in secret (still have chat log) and 3) the folks who are actually doing the outsourcing wanted to offer their services to me for a small sum (person was in philippines and known) and PM was on PCF.

Needlesstosay, a lot of folks are being rather disingenous in denying their origins on the forums but then I cannot really blame them either.

Click to expand...

I have seen worse and it played all out on a Twitch stream I happened to be watching and was with a very well known avatar (female) and a Alt the PP were using. this person/Alt now runs a service in EU and it still grinds my teeth.

That was the day I started my last slow exit, (since my return here as of late) to be quite honest, I was very disheartened and shocked.

I have never been graced by Lootius with any huge global/HoF or anything over 400 PED. ( in what will be 10 years.)

I do agree that locking weapons etc to avatars would greatly increase the odds of fair play during many events.

A shared account type would be nice tbh... register 2 avatars on 1 account, pay a monthly fee for more.
Each login has a shared pedcard and one not shared, all of them visible but only yours withdrawable and same inventory and storage.

if you only play a few hours weekly this could be quite nice and also make things easier for spouses

sorry not sorry for off topic

What about locking a weapon to being used once per category?

they should just ban account sharing IMO, there is too many loopholes.

want a couple extra accounts to do whatever on? just sign up your various family members or friends and play on those.

want to buy an account? just paypal the dude money and play on his account.
people start asking question about account sale? He is just letting you play on the account which is perfectly legal, you would need either party to actually be a retard and tell people about the sale to get caught

Mathilda said:

they just just ban account sharing IMO, there is too many loopholes.

Click to expand...

And how are you going to prove it?
MA does not want lawsuits.

Naomi said:

And how are you going to prove it?
MA does not want lawsuits.

Click to expand...

I made a typo, meant to say they should ban account sharing. because there is no way to know if a person is buying/selling accounts, or playing tons of alts, without him actually admitting it

Mathilda said:

I made a typo, meant to say they should ban account sharing. because there is no way to know if a person is buying/selling accounts, or playing tons of alts, without him actually admitting it

Click to expand...

account sharing is already illegal.
are you referring to item sharing/lending?

Naomi said:

Imagine you have been in EU for many years, knowing the ins and outs of the game. Maybe sustaining losses after losses, with an occasional 4- or 5-figure in loot, yet, there are many who never gained the opportunity of overall time profit, due to never hitting 5-figured loots, (like myself). This can be due to many reasons, such as short hunts, unlucky timings, mob choices, area choosing, game changes rendering investments useless, being outplayed by exploiters and others,...

How do you raise the odds? You could increase activity. Increasing activity will hugely raise your chances to hit that big one, that balances out the losses, and even may turn the excel sheet in your favor.

There are but so many hours in a day available to the common man. You may become a basement slave to EU if you wish. Still it is easier to share efforts:

- you could hire one or two people to play on your account.

The odds have just doubled in your favor. Yet there can be gained more, waay more, towards the greedy way of profit.

- you could get more accounts, and even more people to play them.

(use different isp's or vpns to hide the real ip)

It is quite easy to come to agreements with people holding top level avatars, who are bored with EU for different reasons, or have chosen to spend time to real life. With updates of a copy of their passports, the promise of some profit each year for it, they will happily cooperate.

Now you have 3 or 4 computers in your garage, a bar with beverages and a BBQ outside. Perhaps unemployed friends or others are happy to put in the hours for you for not much more then food and beverages, after all, EU is some fun.

Now you have 12 people playing in your little sweatshop. You will not have 12x its losses, because your chances to hit the items, hofs and even ath's have huuuuugely increased, and you will get them regularly now, compared to the common man who plays EU outside of his working hours.

Let's raise the activity to events. With only 1.5x the investments for 3 accounts or more, it is much easier to acquire top level gear, and secure, perhaps more then 1, place in the events. Profits to be for the original organizer, with a share for each of his garage gamers

Maybe this is already being done, with so many non-original accounts getting top spots. Maybe 1 of the 10.000 active players, someone is outsmarting the game system, on the backs of the 99.99%.

Click to expand...

And imagine the profit you can accumulate if you even had "friends" inside Ma because you run your business right next to them, and can benefit of some well placed tips from time to time?
would be amazing

What your describing is the n1 reason for which that game have so few players and dont grow.

The imaginary person you talked about are the first cause of decrease of all uber stuff value. They actively participated of discouraging every single potential investor of making EU grow again.

Mathilda said:

they should just ban account sharing IMO, there is too many loopholes.

want a couple extra accounts to do whatever on? just sign up your various family members or friends and play on those.

want to buy an account? just paypal the dude money and play on his account.
people start asking question about account sale? He is just letting you play on the account which is perfectly legal, you would need either party to actually be a retard and tell people about the sale to get caught

Click to expand...

And thus the random ID checks.

atomicstorm said:

And thus the random ID checks.

Click to expand...

which does not help since the new users have a copy of the passport of the original owners

Imagine if the entire community took action instead of just complaining about it. I know of plenty, myself included, that have responded to MA’s lack of perceived efforts by reducing monthly deposits to mere fraction of the thousands of USD they once received. I know of others that have liquidated most everything as they feel the game is now on life support and will never deposit again.

My two years of virtual non-stop gameplay have proven this to me:

- IMO loot completely sucks (98% of “cool” things will never drop again)
- IMO MA has focused efforts on BS like compet, statues, deeptokens, planetary/playerbase dilution, and any other thing that generates revenue without actual/complete product delivery
- IMO Gambling playstyle is clearly encouraged
- IMO Exploits, multiple accounts, insider information and shared avatars are how you gain an “edge”
- IMO Support and MA generally speaking could give a crap about communicating any efforts made to address the REAL issues that are choking the life out of this game.

All this being said, if you are frustrated then I suggest you put your $$ where your mouth is. Human nature is to take the path of least resistance.. so why would MA take any considerable actions if the $$ keeps flowing in?

I genuinely hope things turn around but I honesty won’t be surprised if they don’t. I have written this to be constructive and only wish to express MY opinions based off MY experiences. Others may feel completely different and that is absolutely fine and dandy with me.

Good luck to you all

a few things,

first @ OP. this is inherent in everygame where grinding is a thing. the person playing the most gets the most. I have a job, and that's first, then wife, then game time. therefore I will always be at a disadvantage to someone who does not have these things, and can play upwards of 11hrs a day. This is in no way a complaint, or hate towards anyone who is retired, rich, lives at home, whatever that allows them more free time then I.

the issue is unlike many games, I cannot simply buy my way to max level with uber gear for 200-500$, as this games top end gear has serious costs, along with skills costing a boatload as well. Again, I enjoy this part as well and this is not hate. I rather enjoy that everyone is not running around max level with a mod merc.

second, the "noob/comeback" hof. This right here is some type of coding thing and nothing else. here is where switching mobs and changing guns and other types of "secrets" come into play. I think there are ways to trick the system. No, im not going to reveal what little knowledge I "believe" I have, whether it is true or false.

I think simply when u have taken a long break or are starting new your hitting this multiplier. its built in to try and catch you. learning how to repeat it is the key.

martigan(sp?) apologize if spelling is incorrect. I believe you are right in many cases. gambling is definetaly encouraged. and loot for the most part is crap. the main issues I believe here are, in most other games when someone with an uber item quits, the item is gone. Here where the items can be freely sold to other players, they stay forever and the over population of items makes the games loot feel like crap. in any other game ppl would quit, and for all intents and purposes the so called "good loots" would come back.

no one is TT'ing a mod fap, or quitting and just leaving the item to rot on their account. this is the same for many items.


To me the biggest issue, we need more players. plain and simple, what other games are there where you pretty much know everyone in the game? we are lucky if we have 5k active players. we are barely a town of people. how do we get more ppl? unfortunately that is the million dollar question...…. sorry for the wall of texts.

Naomi said:

which does not help since the new users have a copy of the passport of the original owners

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Ofc the couple I know, i know this to not be true. Maybe for the ones that keep getting cited....

It's just not worth cheating.

Whether it be in sports or a PC game, wheres the satisfaction in that?

We are all bound by the Terms Of Use.

Mega said:

It's just not worth cheating.

Whether it be in sports or a PC game, wheres the satisfaction in that?

We are all bound by the Terms Of Use.

Click to expand...

There are plenty that are using Bot right now and have been reported multiple times for it and yet they are still plugging away... I think MA does not care for most cheats atm. So YES for some it is worth cheating.

At least they can't print money like they used to pre 2.0 Really sucks for pvp though.