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  1. #31
    Dominant Vadio's Avatar
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  2. #32
    Slayer GoNi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Post_History View Post
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    I am trying to craft an Idea that make it FAIR for all, please look over the fact I am on the "other side" and consider your suggestions and how they impact "your side" I am not looking to make it more expensive for the "Victim" I am actually trying to make it more of a level playing field...
    Fair for whom ?

    Only Pirates would profit from your idea, all others would have to pay the fee (not pirates who stay in space).

    So where is that FAIR ?

    Traveller has to pay, pirate has not to pay.

    Pirate will gain loot, traveller defensless not even a chance to loot.

    Fair for whom ????

    ONLY PIRATES would profit.

    NO THANKS !!!!

    Sidenote:
    I dont even bother to attach weapons to my Quad, so if meet a pirate I get shot down, repair and continue my travel. Easy as that, nothing to loot btw

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoNi View Post
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    Fair for whom ?

    Only Pirates would profit from your idea, all others would have to pay the fee (not pirates who stay in space).

    So where is that FAIR ?

    Traveller has to pay, pirate has not to pay.
    I think you have miss read what I have said... we do not spend all our time in in space... and it is a cost to leave any pressure vessel... so once again... the list..

    When is the "up to 2PED" fee charged?
    • entering space from planet
    • re-entering space from space station
    • re-entering space from mothership


    you assume we just sit somewhere all day... I can tell you otherwise...

    Quote Originally Posted by GoNi View Post
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    Pirate will gain loot, traveller defensless not even a chance to loot.

    Fair for whom ????

    ONLY PIRATES would profit.

    NO THANKS !!!!

    Sidenote:
    I dont even bother to attach weapons to my Quad, so if meet a pirate I get shot down, repair and continue my travel. Easy as that, nothing to loot btw
    What about those poor defenceless miners down in Toxic PVP, should we do something for them too? NO

    I think you miss the point of lootable pvp, the design by nature is to increase the value of a good that is available on one planet vs another planet where it is not found based on cost to transport and risk.


    If you want to be a multi planet participant you need to

    A) Learn to defend yourself OR
    B) hire help.


    This game has never been a free for all so why would it be now?
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  4. #34
    Guardian BackBone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Post_History View Post
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    I think you have miss read what I have said... we do not spend all our time in in space... and it is a cost to leave any pressure vessel... so once again... the list..

    When is the "up to 2PED" fee charged?
    • entering space from planet
    • re-entering space from space station
    • re-entering space from mothership


    you assume we just sit somewhere all day... I can tell you otherwise...



    What about those poor defenceless miners down in Toxic PVP, should we do something for them too? NO

    I think you miss the point of lootable pvp, the design by nature is to increase the value of a good that is available on one planet vs another planet where it is not found based on cost to transport and risk.


    If you want to be a multi planet participant you need to

    A) Learn to defend yourself OR
    B) hire help.


    This game has never been a free for all so why would it be now?
    Lootable space should have never existed, in the first place.

    This game's design, by nature, is to make the players lose slowly in the long run. How else would the servers and the 47 people at MA get paid? So adding another source of loss was an incredibly stupid idea by MA, with a bonus - it separates the planets even more (maybe that's the whole idea, keep as many players in Calypso as possible).

    If this was a normal MMO where, from grinding, our wealth was always growing, i would be all for lootable areas with PvP! But this MMO is reversed! Our wealth is always dimishing, so lootable areas don't make any sense.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    I almost didn't reply to this post by Corwin, but then realised it perpetuated certain space myths that could lead others to false conclusions

    Have you actually considered the implications of your options?
    i apologise no offense mean, but ill be glad to reply my idea, wich is just a theory and why it lead me to this conclusions

    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    You say 30-50ped TP Planet to Planet. If a TP is similar in price to a warp cost (say 25 or 30 ped warp plus 7 ped tp to planet) then why use a warp at all, what then happens to all those that invested in spaceships, and worked hard for years to provide services to travellers ?
    Regarding the teleport planet to planet fee i would make it a fixed like 20-50ped+ a fee based on weight just like auction fee.
    and regarding the investment part i exactly would provide to all those ship owners, a unlimited warp drive, that decay 3ped each warp just like on equus, so they can be competitive.
    Yea u will lose the possibility to exploit mu on warp drives, true, but whoever spend 5tousand dollars to buy a ship would rather not pay further mu on warps, will also protect and make stable the ship value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    That weight limit is not there to make them targets for pirates, it is there to protect the trade of the privateers etc, as the equus/firebird does not have TP usage as well as warp costs. It was MAs attempt to level the playing field
    yea probably ur right, now that there are no anymore land planet fees, wich i just found out, equus is an awesome investment as it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    This shows a total failure to understand space.. you would need same rules for MS/privateer/equus/quad/sleipnir
    Loot to be based on SI ? Only a privateer or MS can increase SI, so how is it fair that a pirate attack could get them large loot for small cost, all because owner had spent money to upgrade. Yes it generally costs more to bring down a large ship, but pirates have been known to shoot up already damaged ships out skilling in the training grounds
    yea loot to be based on s.i. the more u repair it, the more loot it carry as long as a small part of the wire decay goes into its loot. Ofc it has to be balanced that if u do repair a ms or a privateer the loot it carrys is considerably lower than cost to shoot down. But also if u been all day skilling is worth to be hunted, so also to be protected by its crew. That would lead to a more balanced dynamic space, with no cost for the actual ms owner, if not just having to deal once more per day with pirates, but that at same time creates more excitement and fun for space ms players
    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    Every ship will get looted twice ? the hell it would. The quad crew may re-spawn and leave before pirate even flies to the SS if the battle was some distance away, or if the pirate was camping at an SS, the victim can just tp back to planet.. who gains...MA does(TP fee), pirate does (Loot)... who loses regardless the traveller does (own loot if carried, repair costs and TP fee)
    the idea was to make the "residue loot" like a veichle cointained. And to prevent the pirate to loot at same time ship and player, but to have to choise either one of em
    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    Also metal res is very heavy, so even if an equus took down a pirate they sure as hell don't want to loot res and then be unable to warp
    The owner of a larger warp vessel doesn't want that weight either making them move about ship at a snails pace.
    make it a light residue, and anyway wont be considerable as the point is actually make it less than the cost to kill but it increase while repaired = always worth more to hunt the best player at shooting
    le me make u a fast example
    to shoot down a quad u need 3 ped, and a full si repair gives to it 1ped of residue. so the only way to get more than cost to kill is that the quad has been repaired more times without being looted yet. Ofc u can loot player instead of quad, but u cant loot both at same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    FAIL
    A shield protects a potential victim, the attacker is shooting and is only rarely shot at, so why would they even consider shields especially expensive ones
    The 'victim' probably expects to lose, so why would they add to their expense also.
    the idea under it is that the main problem of space traveling is that with same shooting skill the victim always have to turn around and in that manouvre lose already 2 or 3 shot making the pirate in a obviously big positional advantage. Yea the victim will probably lose due to the pirate skill, but not due to the system, and sometimes, it could be even fun fighting ur way out and looting some residue meanwhile, maybe even more than the cost to fight as long as pirates due to theyre skill, they will defnally carry more loot than players on theyre ship. This will also make dodge ring and focus blow ring more required and consequentially more valuable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    Yes space needs more variety and locations for mobs...I agree.
    But mobs and rocks everywhere ? No more auto runs to another planet, no more walking away from keyboard to grab a drink, else some random mobs may send you back to the pirate ridden SS you just left.. brilliant idea lol
    Plus even actively avoiding all this will add to a journey time most already complain is too long.

    The land on planet fee is already removed... so what are you talking about ?
    u will still be able to go afk, but u need to pay more attention, if an hunter need to pee while hunting and it gets aggroed by a mob he may die, like it should be, so i feel same should be for ships.
    anyway the best ideas are the ones that makes both pirates and service providers happy, but at the end they all have to find a compromise to be able to coexist, i believe also you will enjoy a more dynamic space, where actually u can profit from the skill gained and the fun that people have just by playing it.
    wat im doin is actually stating wat i think would make space better, not detroying other peeps ideas and for sure not being rude to others.
    I understand u worried about the idea on any space change granny, because u invested and because u dont want to get damaged, but that does not allow you to be rude to others and u gotta get ready because space gotta change and is changing, no matter if you like it or not.
    Last edited by Corwin; 10-10-2018 at 08:57.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
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    the best ideas are the ones that makes both pirates and service providers happy, but at the end they all have to find a compromise to be able to coexist
    The best ideas are the ones that attract the largest possible playerbase willing to spend money. Emphasis on "willing".
    1. I NEVER post off-topic.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackBone View Post
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    This game's design, by nature, is to make the players lose slowly in the long run. How else would the servers and the 47 people at MA get paid? So adding another source of loss was an incredibly stupid idea by MA, with a bonus - it separates the planets even more (maybe that's the whole idea, keep as many players in Calypso as possible).
    its not about calypso itself, i think its more about protecting every planet economy and giving them a markup on theyre items, wich they would not have is space was not lootable

  8. #38
    Guardian BackBone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
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    its not about calypso itself, i think its more about protecting every planet economy and giving them a markup on theyre items, wich they would not have is space was not lootable
    There is not enough players to flurish the economy of one planet, let alone other planets.

    The markup is given by the law of supply and demand. If an item is wanted, it will be sold, dont need to lock it in its own planet.

  9. #39
    Dominant
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    Why would it be unfair or unreasonable ? Well at the risk of repeating myself...
    Quote Originally Posted by Post_History View Post
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    I think you have miss read what I have said... we do not spend all our time in in space... and it is a cost to leave any pressure vessel... so once again... the list..

    When is the "up to 2PED" fee charged?
    • entering space from planet
    • re-entering space from space station
    • re-entering space from mothership


    you assume we just sit somewhere all day... I can tell you otherwise...
    Actually the individual traveller would be then charged 2 ped to enter space and a further 2 ped to re-enter space from space station after repairs.. so they get to pay double
    Pirates would get to pay a second time only if they looted sufficient to need to go TT or storage it.
    So the burden would mostly fall on the 'victim of piracy' whether or not they were looted.

    Spaceship repair skillers would also have to pay at least twice, even if they never saw or engaged with a pirate, but simply went to the MS for repairs in TG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Post_History View Post
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    What about those poor defenceless miners down in Toxic PVP, should we do something for them too? NO

    I think you miss the point of lootable pvp, the design by nature is to increase the value of a good that is available on one planet vs another planet where it is not found based on cost to transport and risk.
    Since space can be by-passed by use of AH delivery systems the transit of planet specific items is easier than it has ever been, or people can move larger (heavier) items using a warp service.
    So for space to have some equivalence with planet PVP would only be true only if MA made it so that there was something in space we could hunt that gave us better returns than planet-side hunting. Those mobs that are doable in a quad are very unlikely to give anything like a profit, let alone increased profit. Or unique mining, or some high value missions, but since none of these apply to space pvp (unless you are a pirate and get a lucky loot from an avatar) then I am sorry but this argument is specious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Post_History View Post
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    If you want to be a multi planet participant you need to

    A) Learn to defend yourself OR
    B) hire help.
    This game has never been a free for all so why would it be now?
    Even without a charge to enter space, space travel is not and never will be free, with the exception of a lift from a friend who refuses a contribution to costs... hardly a major selling point.

    • Hire of a taxi
    • Purchase of vehicle, oil and thruster and possible cost of repair tool and wire used if repairs needed
    • Hire fee of a warp ship plus tp to planet
    • Hire of mothership and price of own vehicle etc if using sphere entry

    The risks currently far outweigh any potential advantage for the ordinary traveller so unless we want all the planets to sit in isolation I still see the charge as a very silly idea.
    Last edited by Granny Rowan; 10-10-2018 at 11:07.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
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    yea loot to be based on s.i. the more u repair it, the more loot it carry as long as a small part of the wire decay goes into its loot. Ofc it has to be balanced that if u do repair a ms or a privateer the loot it carrys is considerably lower than cost to shoot down. But also if u been all day skilling is worth to be hunted, so also to be protected by its crew. That would lead to a more balanced dynamic space, with no cost for the actual ms owner, if not just having to deal once more per day with pirates, but that at same time creates more excitement and fun for space ms players
    This leads to a similar situation to creature control pills where you can go kill a heap of people (take on damage) and then go hide... (in the case of creature control time out) and then come back and kill the ship yourself for the PEDs spent..... I like it !



    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
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    the idea under it is that the main problem of space traveling is that with same shooting skill the victim always have to turn around and in that manouvre lose already 2 or 3 shot making the pirate in a obviously big positional advantage. Yea the victim will probably lose due to the pirate skill, but not due to the system, and sometimes, it could be even fun fighting ur way out and looting some residue meanwhile, maybe even more than the cost to fight as long as pirates due to theyre skill, they will defnally carry more loot than players on theyre ship. This will also make dodge ring and focus blow ring more required and consequentially more valuable.
    Good to see you see it as skill thing... I have other ideas in relation to evening up the entry to space but I think that is another discussion...

    Equipped rings do not work in quad nor do special armours...


    Quote Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
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    its not about calypso itself, i think its more about protecting every planet economy and giving them a markup on theyre items, wich they would not have is space was not lootable
    Bang on this is exactly what I am saying...

    Quote Originally Posted by BackBone View Post
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    There is not enough players to flurish the economy of one planet, let alone other planets.

    The markup is given by the law of supply and demand. If an item is wanted, it will be sold, dont need to lock it in its own planet.
    it is Supply and demand... so Good B on Planet A might be say 102% MU, Good B on Planet B might be 120% MU... why? because it has travelled through space and thus added to its expense due to time and risk... that is the Supply part... the demand part well pick the right "Good" to move...

    Quote Originally Posted by Granny Rowan View Post
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    Why would it be unfair or unreasonable ? Well at the risk of repeating myself...


    Actually the individual traveller would be then charged 2 ped to enter space and a further 2 ped to re-enter space from space station after repairs.. so they get to pay double
    Pirates would get to pay a second time only if they looted sufficient to need to go TT or storage it.
    So the burden would mostly fall on the 'victim of piracy' whether or not they were looted.

    Spaceship repair skillers would also have to pay at least twice, even if they never saw or engaged with a pirate, but simply went to the MS for repairs in TG.


    Since space can be by-passed by use of AH delivery systems the transit of planet specific items is easier than it has ever been, or people can move larger (heavier) items using a warp service.
    So for space to have some equivalence with planet PVP would only be true only if MA made it so that there was something in space we could hunt that gave us better returns than planet-side hunting. Those mobs that are doable in a quad are very unlikely to give anything like a profit, let alone increased profit. Or unique mining, or some high value missions, but since none of these apply to space pvp (unless you are a pirate and get a lucky loot from an avatar) then I am sorry but this argument is specious.


    Even without a charge to enter space, space travel is not and never will be free, with the exception of a lift from a friend who refuses a contribution to costs... hardly a major selling point.

    • Hire of a taxi
    • Purchase of vehicle, oil and thruster and possible cost of repair tool and wire used if repairs needed
    • Hire fee of a warp ship plus tp to planet
    • Hire of mothership and price of own vehicle etc if using sphere entry

    The risks currently far outweigh any potential advantage for the ordinary traveller so unless we want all the planets to sit in isolation I still see the charge as a very silly idea.
    Granny I do see what your saying but this is why I suggested a sliding scale... for entry fee proportional to SI value... as the "Fair" mechanism why do I see this as the "Fair" mechanism?

    Pirates always need full SI thus always paying the 2peds... people that are just moving thru space on a whim could come up paying just PEC's not PED's

    The introduction of the Auction crossing planets to fund another not filled promise of space missions... has hurt the space community at large, and I feel if they do not plan on introducing that feature anytime soon they should probably disable such ability as it is not reflecting what they said when this was introduced.
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