Info: allarom's week #1 FEN log

Have been farming tokens from spiders all week for now and results are kind of interesting... and i felt like sharing it

Gun+amp = 56% effiency (sacrifice i have to make to get best dps on my level)
Animal looter = 37

Week #1 (16 - 21 October)

Total input 54094
Total back in tt 47719 88.21%
Total loss -6375

Total MU paid for enhancers, amps, armor 732
Real tt return (excluded used MU) 89.57%

Platinum tokens looted 126 (1 token for every 429 PED cycled)
Gold tokens looted 332 (1 token for every 163 PED cycled)

So far i've sold all my tokens and after MU my return is 98.31% (5459 MU gathered so far)

All my runs are listed below. Green ones are the ones where tt return was bigger than input. Notice the trend?


Raise effiency you say? Ok, add 1-2% to tt return
Skill up looter? On it

Let's hope that current week will be AT LEAST as "good" as previous one

Hey allarom. My results are just similar to yours... From past two weeks Im constantly at the range 86-88% TT return (aprox 80k cycled with approx 63% effi) (Not hunting for tokens tho).
(Various mobs with always at least 1000 kills of the same mob in row)

Seems that MA fairly lowered avereage TT return during FEN at least for some players. That could possibly "kill" many ppl contesting in HM

Since FEN started:

168725 > 157588 = 93.4%

allarom said:

Notice the trend?

Click to expand...

Umm, no.



Does the MU include output amplifier components looted?

Haruto Rat said:

Does the MU include output amplifier components looted?

Click to expand...

Yes, also ESIs and all the stuff that has some MU value

thanks for posting, more proof that 95% returns are a phantom. I know MA says it's the average and some get lower, but with 80ish percent returns.. it would take a lot of players to make over 100% to keep the average 95.
I feel like the average is more closer to 85% and I wish they would admit it and/or change it.

Not data to back it up, but I went through the bulk of $70 in 7 days. I looted 2 platinum tokens and 25 gold. Also a 10 TT ESI. I did 2 smaller spider hunts, with some atrox, argonauts, Kerb stalkers, Formicacida, couple other randoms.
6 globals = avg of 70 peds.

This is not a calculated return, but a general impression/experience of a long-term player. I cannot play this game like this. I am unwilling to spend 10 dollars a day for a couple hours of game-time. It's a shame, because I really love my time here.

Thanks for sharing your data.

DavinFelth said:

I feel like the average is more closer to 85% and I wish they would admit it and/or change it.

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After years of break, i started playing again since Summer Mayhem 2018. I was 94% average tt before FEN started. Considering i don't have some good effiency gear, i was pleased with the result. During the FEN my average tt has dropped down to 93%. Pretty much same pattern as in mayhem: more MU = less TT. Seems like they intentionally pulling down tt returns since MU compensates it...

DavinFelth said:

thanks for posting, more proof that 95% returns are a phantom. I know MA says it's the average and some get lower, but with 80ish percent returns.. it would take a lot of players to make over 100% to keep the average 95.
I feel like the average is more closer to 85% and I wish they would admit it and/or change it.

Not data to back it up, but I went through the bulk of $70 in 7 days. I looted 2 platinum tokens and 25 gold. Also a 10 TT ESI. I did 2 smaller spider hunts, with some atrox, argonauts, Kerb stalkers, Formicacida, couple other randoms.
6 globals = avg of 70 peds.

This is not a calculated return, but a general impression/experience of a long-term player. I cannot play this game like this. I am unwilling to spend 10 dollars a day for a couple hours of game-time. It's a shame, because I really love my time here.

Thanks for sharing your data.

Click to expand...

If you don't want to fork out $10/day, pick the smaller slot machines. You seem to hunt mostly >1100 hp mobs (~4 ped each?). You'll need to cycle a lot to see the average return % (100k mobs x 4 ped -> 400k peds).

DavinFelth said:

thanks for posting, more proof that 95% returns are a phantom. I know MA says it's the average and some get lower, but with 80ish percent returns.. it would take a lot of players to make over 100% to keep the average 95.
I feel like the average is more closer to 85% and I wish they would admit it and/or change it.

Not data to back it up, but I went through the bulk of $70 in 7 days. I looted 2 platinum tokens and 25 gold. Also a 10 TT ESI. I did 2 smaller spider hunts, with some atrox, argonauts, Kerb stalkers, Formicacida, couple other randoms.
6 globals = avg of 70 peds.

This is not a calculated return, but a general impression/experience of a long-term player. I cannot play this game like this. I am unwilling to spend 10 dollars a day for a couple hours of game-time. It's a shame, because I really love my time here.

Thanks for sharing your data.

Click to expand...

cycled thru less than 700ped, took 7 days depending when got 50-120mu just from tokens and an esi as well as 20pedish in gold and normal loot ontop some swirls too and this is bad? i dont get it. Prob doin much better than you realise but hey i guess your feeling over 700ped hunt knows more about avg return than devs or people who track over 100s of k cycle and always arrive around expected.

DavinFelth said:

thanks for posting, more proof that 95% returns are a phantom. I know MA says it's the average and some get lower, but with 80ish percent returns.. it would take a lot of players to make over 100% to keep the average 95.
I feel like the average is more closer to 85% and I wish they would admit it and/or change it.

Click to expand...

MA stats were released after 2.0 but before looter professions. From my returns tracking it looks like my returns dropped by 3% after looter introduction. So yea, I can believe in 95% average after 2.0 release (I was floating around 96% between 2.0 and looter release) but not after looter addition. Seems like 95% avg was too much for MA so they nerfed that with looter profs. But hey, finally skills impact loot like ppl requested - yet another example of be careful what you wish for.

i think you became a small fish in a big pond.

let me elaborate slightly, you were playing before with all players scattered about, and not having to fight for the same peds.

now if you look at EL. you can see theres like 1 million ped in spider globals currently after a week, 33% of all loot is coming from spiders. the vast majority of players are shooting the same mob.

a lot of higher skilled players have moved to your mob of choice.

so where as before you were middle of the pack maybe close to the top end of a particular mob you were shooting, you are now on the bottom of the pack on the mob you are currently shooting.


this is all my own theory here. I have no facts to back this up. just what I tend to see from my eyes.

I feel for ya. Now imagine the same shit return, without the markup (i can't grind the lvl50+ mobs myself, and haven't seen a single esi in 10 years, ... but the tt return is lowered for me too, and i do grind a lot of missions). This game used to be fun. The people running the game seem to have no clue what they're doing (except taking care of themselves shortterm). "They keep hunting so they must like what they're getting" ... Mindark, you couldn't be more wrong, we're just hoping for something that will make up for the losses, and hoping there's still items with markup to be looted ... Fingers crossed for a big enough hof to make things right.

thee pepe said:

i think you became a small fish in a big pond.

let me elaborate slightly, you were playing before with all players scattered about, and not having to fight for the same peds.

now if you look at EL. you can see theres like 1 million ped in spider globals currently after a week, 33% of all loot is coming from spiders. the vast majority of players are shooting the same mob.

a lot of higher skilled players have moved to your mob of choice.

so where as before you were middle of the pack maybe close to the top end of a particular mob you were shooting, you are now on the bottom of the pack on the mob you are currently shooting.


this is all my own theory here. I have no facts to back this up. just what I tend to see from my eyes.

Click to expand...

Higher skilled players? How can their skills affect my returns?

allarom said:

Higher skilled players? How can their skills affect my returns?

Click to expand...

Better gear, higher loot professions, etc etc

Over the last 800k post 2.0 i have gone down to 92% with a 150k in the middle where i was stuck to 87% tt and came back to 95% and went to 96% as well. My average for the 800k is at 94.92% ( across all 3 professions).

The point of the above statistics being that your assessment needs to further wait as the returns have not dropped enough and seems more like building for a 3-4k+ or a series of smaller hofs. Out of the 1000's ( assuming optimistically) some will have there returns lower during fen and some higher. Thats how it works. You will get it back up. That said i was pretty frustrated too in the middle when over 150k+ i was stuck at 87% tt so i can understand where u'r coming from.

Keep grinding

Where have you been hunting the spiders?
If its the taxed land area, then there is another 2%.

On a side note, that LA owner must be very happy with FEN event:

Landarea / Hunting globals / Unique avatars /Total loot
Takuta Plateau / 2 063.00 / 244.00 /220 512.00 PED

I think 98% TT return is the maximum average one can hope to achieve. But in order to pull that off you need to be using a weapon with 100% efficiency, have looter maxed, hunt on non-taxed land and cycle around 500k peds on the same value mob.

Even then it's an average which means there will still be some unlucky players pulling in an average of 85% due to an extended bad run and some lucky players pulling in 110% due to a lucky BIG hof.

I've also noticed a TT loss but the markup on the tokens has helped a bit. It was very profitable at the start when tokens were selling for 70+ peds each.

jambon said:

I think 98% TT return is the maximum average one can hope to achieve. But in order to pull that off you need to be using a weapon with 100% efficiency, have looter maxed, hunt on non-taxed land and cycle around 500k peds on the same value mob.

Even then it's an average which means there will still be some unlucky players pulling in an average of 85% due to an extended bad run and some lucky players pulling in 110% due to a lucky BIG hof.

I've also noticed a TT loss but the markup on the tokens has helped a bit. It was very profitable at the start when tokens were selling for 70+ peds each.

Click to expand...

Lol, based on literally 0 information

Slyk said:

Lol, based on literally 0 information

Click to expand...

What are you talking about zero information? There's plenty of information that points to this... Maybe spend a little more time reading dev notes and hunting logs instead of making snide comments and maybe you won't need to ask people if your losses are "normal"

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?306319-Normal

Seriously though, MA has already stated what their goals are for returns rates in previous notes (which was about 98% for high turnover) as well as how weapon efficiency and looter professions contribute to TT value of loots which based on what they and others have said contribute to a total of 14%. It's still under debate if the looter profession caps at it's return at lvl 100 or if it keeps increasing.

I can't imagine their implementation of the looter profession had the goal of letting people get over 100% TT return regularly as that would not be sustainable... IMO all these things that affect TT return are geared towards reaching the theoretical max average TT return which is arguably 98%.

I think you are in a company where you cant complete with 56% eff. + lover looter lvls.

BigPimping said:

cycled thru less than 700ped, took 7 days depending when got 50-120mu just from tokens and an esi as well as 20pedish in gold and normal loot ontop some swirls too and this is bad? i dont get it. Prob doin much better than you realise but hey i guess your feeling over 700ped hunt knows more about avg return than devs or people who track over 100s of k cycle and always arrive around expected.

Click to expand...

That was my point, you'd think with those results I'd be happy or sitting well, but end up pretty down and out.
I think it's bad, because where I ended up was no weapon, broke amp, no fap - and 100 some peds to work with. That means either I hunt punies or deposit again. If 70 lasts a week then 280 a month? That's been my experience in the past. I'm not longer willing to (or TRY HARD NOT TO) continue that pattern. It's too much for a video game.

I play another MMO and have spent a total of 60 dollars in over 3 years and i've put in over 1 thousand hours easy. I don't enjoy it as much as EU, but it's close enough and thousands of dollars cheaper.

LavaSparks said:

If you don't want to fork out $10/day, pick the smaller slot machines. You seem to hunt mostly >1100 hp mobs (~4 ped each?). You'll need to cycle a lot to see the average return % (100k mobs x 4 ped -> 400k peds).

Click to expand...

Where do people come up with how much they think they need to cycle to see the average? Based on experience? How can one say what is average based on their averages. Still isn't the average of all players, or you know.. an average doesn't represent everyone. I hate when people say cycle more, because if some cycle is a big loss... seems dumb to do it more.

Also, i'm lvl 77 laser sniper - if I must sit and hunt Combibo youngs all day then this game is pointless and/or I should sell all skills.

That 100k mobs is totally pulled out of nowhere. I don't have much experience with more than 3 ped per try, but at that level 10k tries should put you in a reasonable point, 95% ish. But that is not very relevant, what matters is the habit. That is, negative mu trend will compound the most at lowest tt point and will likely be irrelevant at highest tt point.

Sorry mate, but what were you saying is just very bad practice. If 700 is all you got, put it in one place as long as you can. Try to stick to very low mu weps or if you can an old ul and just keep doing. When is done is done, come back when you are ok to depo, but don't mix like that. You will end up in a situation like having 20 ped of muscle which you might aswell just tt.

If you grind missions, take one at a time and stick to lowest maturity (as much as possible). Aim being to have most tries. Surely, it has to be fun. I can't hunt cornundacaudas for example. Dunno when I will finish them. You want to do trox, fine, stick to that. Youngs at Jura or Ithaca and that's it. If you mix with very low budget is much more likely to hit low return curves, is simple math.

Forget mu and intricate economics, stick to simple clear things. As long as it lasts. At the very least you will hit your scope faster, finishing one mission, than it obviously is to take points in more missions at a time.

As for how it feels, that is pedcard, again in my experience bad mu, bad trades, bad auction, trying to stack irrelevant stuff, operational costs are more likely having a bigger impact than bad loot.

DavinFelth said:

-proof that 95% returns are a phantom
-I feel like the average is more closer to 85% and I wish they would admit it and/or change it.
-Not data to back it up...
-This is not a calculated return, but a general impression/experience of a long-term player.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is the general impression when you don't track your return.
When you DO start to track, you realize there's no such thing as below 92% and long term 93-95%. And I have data to back this up.
You should definitely start to collect data for yourself; first thing you will notice is that with 80-85% you couldn't have gotten to your level