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  1. #31
    Guardian Noorie's Avatar
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    If you can not beat them, join them. Simple.

  2. #32
    Stalker Venture Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deemer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You may be one of the few who do not attack me directly to change the direction of the topic. I think I attacked you a bit too much, influenced by the other comments.
    My apologies, best of luck in the game!
    No one has attacked you or tried to change the subject, we are only trying to understand what that subject is, your post is not very clear.

  3. #33
    Elite narfi's Avatar
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    Our perception of reality is based on many things. It is based on what we observe, what we are taught, and by what we think. It is also based on our emotions. Although they would likely not admit it, even the most analytical people in this game base their theories somewhat on emotion.

    Your first post relays heavy emotion, therefor you got the response you did.

    You received some good advice. "Experiment, try to duplicate your theories, try different scenarios on how to use or break those theories."

    Let us assume that your theory is 100% correct. Players can come in and 'steal' your loot pool by quickly killing mobs near you as un-economically as possible.

    Is this an exploit? Or is it a dick move by someone who has figured out the looting mechanics?

    By definition everything we do to increase our own advantage is an 'exploit'. I 'exploit' the strength of my armor to allow me more dps because I spend less healing. I 'exploit' the power of my amp by using a high rate of attack dagger vs. somoene who uses a more powerful but slower sword. I 'exploit' the markup of rare resources by targeting them when I mine instead of just lyst and oil. etc.... the list goes on and on how we each 'exploit' the mechanics of the game.

    If you instead define 'exploit' to mean breaking the rules of the game however, non of those are wrong, they are infact the way the game was intended to be played.

    No one in this thread has sided with the people you accuse of 'exploiting', everyone can agree they are being dicks.
    However with this narrow definition of the term 'exploit' it would appear they are playing within the rules of the game.

    All of that is based on your theory being 100% accurate.

    We can assume that the people doing this believe it is true, otherwise why would they exhibit such odd behavior?
    Many do not believe the theory is true however, which is why you are questioned.

    If it is true, why can you not duplicate it? have you tried with friends to duplicate this? What happened?

    In the old loot system I did some minor experimenting, and others did experimenting as well, some published and some not published. What do you accomplish by insulting players who have played and experimented in the game for over a decade? You are no better than them, just as they are no better than you. However they have experienced a lot of this game, and have seen a lot of things both odd and common throughout the years.

    I tested and proved to my self (in the old system) I could get more loot per mob using an uneco setup, but there were limits and it was not worth my time or energy to test further. I used a rookie level gun with a dante amp attached to it and killed a low hp but very fast regen creature. I would damage it and let it mostly regen, damage it more and let it mostly regen and repeat until I killed and looted it. Always more loot than if I just killed it quickly and efficiently with an eco setup.

    Even that however was not a full test, and I could only form ideas from, but no set rules. Was it from overamping? was it from overkilling? was it from extra regen? What % was the loot capped at? etc....

    What have you tested? what have you decided has changed between the old loot system and the new? How have you verified your tests?

    Mindark changed the system. They changed it so that individual players would have more steady returns. They gave statements explaining how it would work and their explanations made us all doubt them and ourselves all the more.

    What do we know about this system?
    1. It changed.
    2. It is supposed to be more individually based.
    3. they made a statement about loot pools.

    What can we assume?
    1. They will never payout more than they bring in.
    2. We will never be happy with how it affects us.

    I do not care what you believe, and for the most part I do not believe it matters what I believe.
    The only part of your story that interests me is that the people doing this believe that being a dick can be profitable to them, and they do it so blatantly.
    In many places you do not have to be successful in committing a crime, you will be punished for attempting to commit the crime.

  4. #34
    Stalker Venture Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by narfi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Our perception of reality is based on many things. It is based on what we observe, what we are taught, and by what we think. It is also based on our emotions. Although they would likely not admit it, even the most analytical people in this game base their theories somewhat on emotion.

    Your first post relays heavy emotion, therefor you got the response you did.

    You received some good advice. "Experiment, try to duplicate your theories, try different scenarios on how to use or break those theories."

    Let us assume that your theory is 100% correct. Players can come in and 'steal' your loot pool by quickly killing mobs near you as un-economically as possible.

    Is this an exploit? Or is it a dick move by someone who has figured out the looting mechanics?

    By definition everything we do to increase our own advantage is an 'exploit'. I 'exploit' the strength of my armor to allow me more dps because I spend less healing. I 'exploit' the power of my amp by using a high rate of attack dagger vs. somoene who uses a more powerful but slower sword. I 'exploit' the markup of rare resources by targeting them when I mine instead of just lyst and oil. etc.... the list goes on and on how we each 'exploit' the mechanics of the game.

    If you instead define 'exploit' to mean breaking the rules of the game however, non of those are wrong, they are infact the way the game was intended to be played.

    No one in this thread has sided with the people you accuse of 'exploiting', everyone can agree they are being dicks.
    However with this narrow definition of the term 'exploit' it would appear they are playing within the rules of the game.

    All of that is based on your theory being 100% accurate.

    We can assume that the people doing this believe it is true, otherwise why would they exhibit such odd behavior?
    Many do not believe the theory is true however, which is why you are questioned.

    If it is true, why can you not duplicate it? have you tried with friends to duplicate this? What happened?

    In the old loot system I did some minor experimenting, and others did experimenting as well, some published and some not published. What do you accomplish by insulting players who have played and experimented in the game for over a decade? You are no better than them, just as they are no better than you. However they have experienced a lot of this game, and have seen a lot of things both odd and common throughout the years.

    I tested and proved to my self (in the old system) I could get more loot per mob using an uneco setup, but there were limits and it was not worth my time or energy to test further. I used a rookie level gun with a dante amp attached to it and killed a low hp but very fast regen creature. I would damage it and let it mostly regen, damage it more and let it mostly regen and repeat until I killed and looted it. Always more loot than if I just killed it quickly and efficiently with an eco setup.

    Even that however was not a full test, and I could only form ideas from, but no set rules. Was it from overamping? was it from overkilling? was it from extra regen? What % was the loot capped at? etc....

    What have you tested? what have you decided has changed between the old loot system and the new? How have you verified your tests?

    Mindark changed the system. They changed it so that individual players would have more steady returns. They gave statements explaining how it would work and their explanations made us all doubt them and ourselves all the more.

    What do we know about this system?
    1. It changed.
    2. It is supposed to be more individually based.
    3. they made a statement about loot pools.

    What can we assume?
    1. They will never payout more than they bring in.
    2. We will never be happy with how it affects us.

    I do not care what you believe, and for the most part I do not believe it matters what I believe.
    The only part of your story that interests me is that the people doing this believe that being a dick can be profitable to them, and they do it so blatantly.
    In many places you do not have to be successful in committing a crime, you will be punished for attempting to commit the crime.
    This might be the best post I have ever read on this forum.

  5. #35
    Guardian The Abomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venture Bros View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No one has attacked you or tried to change the subject, we are only trying to understand what that subject is, your post is not very clear.
    I agree was hoping this thread would at least get juicy and it hasn't. ( well at least one good read by Narfi)

    No exploit or anything clearly stated. Just theories on what people are trying to accomplish. More importantly no statistics or numbers explaining an exploit so it can be abused and or fixed. Fact is even if the OP sent this into MA thinking he is reporting something they would just respond with we have no idea what you are talking about.

    Ill check back in case any real info happens or someone can translate what the OP is actually talking about. Disappointed was hoping for a good thread to read before work.
    The Abomb now has Advanced Wood! Level 42 Resource Gatherer, 5043 RG Skill points
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    Being Realistic is the most traveled road to Mediocrity.

  6. #36
    Alpha Darth Revan's Avatar
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    I would like to apologise to the avatar that i accidently stole loot from earlier this week without knowing what i did.
    Here is my story:

    I went to a Frescoquda spawn and started shooting as per what i do any other day i go out hunting. I was actually trying them out to see what their loot was like since i found spider youngs to have crappy loot....i was mainly looking for something else useful on a 50+ level mob that i could craft with and also to farm plat tokens.

    I killed 4 mobs and then noticed a green dot on my radar....seeing that dot was on my radar and the loot i was getting (items wise) wasn't that great, i decided to leave, however on my way back i must have aggro'ed one last one as it caught up to me. Being i didn't want to wast my (L) weapon anymore shooting something that didn't have that great loot, i pulled out my tier 5 deluxe swine full damage enhanced with an evil amp, two sights and a scope and proceeded to lay into the mob to kill it as quickly as i could. As you may know this is a really uneco setup and i only have it for times that i just want to kill something quickly or i aggro a higher level mob that i can usually handle.

    In my uneco haste, I ended up globalling on this one:

    Frescoquda Dominant 156 PED Mon, 22 Oct 2018 03:34:06

    The loot was mostly shrapnel but also contained cronicle foot (L) armor part.
    Surprised i quickly left the area before lootius realised what had happened and that I had got away with some of his loot.

    I deeply apologise to the avatar who had most likely been grinding away for hours without a global and from draining his loot pool. I'm sure i will be severly punished by Lootius himself in the very near future.

  7. #37
    Old Alpha hogfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by narfi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Our perception of reality is based on many things. It is based on what we observe, what we are taught, and by what we think. It is also based on our emotions. Although they would likely not admit it, even the most analytical people in this game base their theories somewhat on emotion.

    Your first post relays heavy emotion, therefor you got the response you did.

    You received some good advice. "Experiment, try to duplicate your theories, try different scenarios on how to use or break those theories."

    Let us assume that your theory is 100% correct. Players can come in and 'steal' your loot pool by quickly killing mobs near you as un-economically as possible.

    Is this an exploit? Or is it a dick move by someone who has figured out the looting mechanics?

    By definition everything we do to increase our own advantage is an 'exploit'. I 'exploit' the strength of my armor to allow me more dps because I spend less healing. I 'exploit' the power of my amp by using a high rate of attack dagger vs. somoene who uses a more powerful but slower sword. I 'exploit' the markup of rare resources by targeting them when I mine instead of just lyst and oil. etc.... the list goes on and on how we each 'exploit' the mechanics of the game.

    If you instead define 'exploit' to mean breaking the rules of the game however, non of those are wrong, they are infact the way the game was intended to be played.

    No one in this thread has sided with the people you accuse of 'exploiting', everyone can agree they are being dicks.
    However with this narrow definition of the term 'exploit' it would appear they are playing within the rules of the game.

    All of that is based on your theory being 100% accurate.

    We can assume that the people doing this believe it is true, otherwise why would they exhibit such odd behavior?
    Many do not believe the theory is true however, which is why you are questioned.

    If it is true, why can you not duplicate it? have you tried with friends to duplicate this? What happened?

    In the old loot system I did some minor experimenting, and others did experimenting as well, some published and some not published. What do you accomplish by insulting players who have played and experimented in the game for over a decade? You are no better than them, just as they are no better than you. However they have experienced a lot of this game, and have seen a lot of things both odd and common throughout the years.

    I tested and proved to my self (in the old system) I could get more loot per mob using an uneco setup, but there were limits and it was not worth my time or energy to test further. I used a rookie level gun with a dante amp attached to it and killed a low hp but very fast regen creature. I would damage it and let it mostly regen, damage it more and let it mostly regen and repeat until I killed and looted it. Always more loot than if I just killed it quickly and efficiently with an eco setup.

    Even that however was not a full test, and I could only form ideas from, but no set rules. Was it from overamping? was it from overkilling? was it from extra regen? What % was the loot capped at? etc....

    What have you tested? what have you decided has changed between the old loot system and the new? How have you verified your tests?

    Mindark changed the system. They changed it so that individual players would have more steady returns. They gave statements explaining how it would work and their explanations made us all doubt them and ourselves all the more.

    What do we know about this system?
    1. It changed.
    2. It is supposed to be more individually based.
    3. they made a statement about loot pools.

    What can we assume?
    1. They will never payout more than they bring in.
    2. We will never be happy with how it affects us.

    I do not care what you believe, and for the most part I do not believe it matters what I believe.
    The only part of your story that interests me is that the people doing this believe that being a dick can be profitable to them, and they do it so blatantly.
    In many places you do not have to be successful in committing a crime, you will be punished for attempting to commit the crime.
    Ah, feels so good to read your posts again Narfi
    - Good Omens -

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by narfi View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I tested and proved to my self (in the old system) I could get more loot per mob using an uneco setup, but there were limits and it was not worth my time or energy to test further. I used a rookie level gun with a dante amp attached to it and killed a low hp but very fast regen creature. I would damage it and let it mostly regen, damage it more and let it mostly regen and repeat until I killed and looted it. Always more loot than if I just killed it quickly and efficiently with an eco setup.

    If this worked on the old system, how do you know it is not working now? Thanks for joining.

    To all others here, save your dignity. I have said several times that, the topic is to give ONLY publicity to this EXPLOIT. Anyone who gets on the topic will get to know the bug no matter what you say.

    Do you want proof?
    There is prey in the pool, you take the loot with the scheme, the chance is very big, thats the problem!
    No prey in the pool, you have nothing to take.
    No one knows value in the pool, but you want values... lol

    Thanks for giving proof to all trolls in the topic, and for these who dont understand my language.

  9. #39
    Old Alpha hogfather's Avatar
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    I think there is a difference in viewpoint.

    As MA stated during the loot 2.0 notes, loot is now based on cost to kill. Which means that the more uneco you are, the bigger the loot you'll get from killing a mob, but because you'll have low efficiency it will also be mostly TT food.

    I do get the feeling that you believe that is an exploit because those people using very uneco stuff 'steal' from your loot pool, while most of the people here feel like whatever they are getting back has to do with their input and nothing to do with you.

    Please note this is not an attack towards you.
    - Good Omens -

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