Is this game only for millionaires now ?

I know this game pretty well..
Played in the past whith an other avatar for almost 10 years. (this old account has been closed by myself)

I'm now level 61 hit, and I stick on armatrix LR-45 cause I think 125% MU is enough, LR-50/55 are about 160% MU that is really insane.. (how are you suposed to get back 60% MU in hunt loot )

So I use LR-45 mostly, and I used alot of CDF guns (from daily tokens)

I hunt LOW level mobs. (I'd say Atrox old max usually, but only occasionaly bigger, for daily sometimes for example)

I finished like 12 Iron, and 3/4 Bronze.

Since few months now, each time I deposit 150$, it last about 3 days !

So my question is...

Well I don't even know what to ask.
I feel like if you're not able to deposit thousands $, you're doomed.

Just tell what you think.

The fanboys in here will all tell you to provide some sort of spreadsheet, that they don't believe you and it's not possible etc.

While you shouldn't become a math nerd, it could be handy to start a log in here. if you deposit 150 dollar, make a hunting log, with detailed information of what you do. And where your money goes.
And after three days, make this post. Because then they won't be able to say the first line.

they will say the following line next: that your sample is too low. That your sample is too low is proving your initial point. That you have to be a rich kid to play this game.
I think 1500 ped is a nice amount of ped to hunt atrox with. It should last longer than 3 days.
Make your log, show us (and specifically Mindark) how their game works with the most eco tools ingame.

This game has always been the unofficial "millionaires playground"... that's nothing new. It's a side-effect of having a purely RCE. Mindark will happily take as much money as you are willing to give them for your gambling and prides themselves on allowing any level of gambling - from fractions of a cent per bet to $25+ per bet (shrapnel crafting).

Though in the past few years MA has tried to make the game more accessible to the less rich with heavy focus on new player experience. IE did you know that new players with very low level can get FREE ammo every day to run the gauntlet mission? There's other stuff they have done as well for mid-level players

• E.L.M version of weapons (this fell flat though when resellers got their dicks in the pie and forced %'s to be more than their non ELM counterparts are worth. IMO all E.L.M should be non-tradable).
• Armatrix series weapons and amps easy to find gear to match your level without a huge overhead
• L version of uber armor like angel and shadow...etc.
• Loot 2.0
• Batsim

But of course, lowering the cost to play from a reactive standpoint as oppsed to from the get-go when the game was in beta is a hard thing to you when you've got the chaos, greed and impatience that is the community at large. And there is a wide spread of player types from chronic gamblers, to spoiled brat wannabe pro gamers, to casual players to profiteers...etc. And you can't please everyone as each group has very strong feelings about how the game should be run to best benefit them.

I agree that my general limit for markup on a gun in 125% though I prefer the 115%-118% area that's why I stick with the LP-45's as well. Even though I can fully use higher guns I only use larger ones when I really feel like gambling. The markups are just too insane for day-to-day use!

One would argue it's "supply and demand" I would argue it's "greed and impatience" with a hint of stupidity. People want what they want when they want it and will pay whatever markup is listed as long as it's the lowest available. "140%, 150%, 160%+??? Sure whatever I want this gun now" then they scratch their heads and wonder where all their money went.

Of course it goes down the rabbit hole too and is a discussion in and of itself of how markups are determined and how they vary based on numerous factors..... market manipulation, undercutting, inadequate markup charts..etc...etc.... lots of BS problems that will never be fixed.

Anyways....

The idea behind L guns though is that they are supposed to be stepping stones for you to make your way to UL gear to save the markup. Always calculate your turnover and markup loss and once it's going to save you enough you need to invest in an UL equivalent that is in your skill level and makes sense with your bankroll. There's arguably a whole science to determining when it's the best move to change to an UL gun.

I'm finding there are definitely ways to have sustained gameplay without investing tens of thousands of dollars in gear. But it really boils down to what your goals are and where you can draw a balance between gambling/having fun/sustainable play. And sadly sometimes these 3 things don't intersect.

I respect the first reply post, but I still also hate the "you need more sample size" response also.
My experience is like yours, and I have to imagine many others. I depo 150 and it last days. Maybe not 3
days, but for sure not 30 - either way it's an amount to time in game ratio that I cannot live with. Only way
I think people could is if they make huge salaries or some other type of situation.
Lower price to play, increase advertising, and I believe more players will come.

High mu setup on low mu mob just for sake of mission is the first mistake i notice. Im sure there are others, perhaps you dont know the game as well as you think. You dont need to be rich to do well but having a bankroll helps you ride variance. With small hunts/deposits you wanna be hunting the highest mu mob/mobs in your kill range with the best setup you can afford as it will make your ped go a lot further/give you better chance to succeed and the higher avg mu your mob the lower your overall variance will be.

Spawn said:

The fanboys in here will all tell you to provide some sort of spreadsheet, that they don't believe you and it's not possible etc.

While you shouldn't become a math nerd, it could be handy to start a log in here. if you deposit 150 dollar, make a hunting log, with detailed information of what you do. And where your money goes.
And after three days, make this post. Because then they won't be able to say the first line.

they will say the following line next: that your sample is too low. That your sample is too low is proving your initial point. That you have to be a rich kid to play this game.
I think 1500 ped is a nice amount of ped to hunt atrox with. It should last longer than 3 days.
Make your log, show us (and specifically Mindark) how their game works with the most eco tools ingame.

Click to expand...

So much condescension here when it is completely unnecessary. It is just math: Risk of ruin. 1500ped is not enough to cover what I assume is 3-4ped (with regen) mobs. It just isn't. Hate it or love it about the game, but that is what it is.

Low levels get free ammo everyday?!?!

you not hunt enough , you need big bankroll
Deal with , next

I can burn 500 ped a day leaning on larger mobs with a lc55 or whatever for ten hours.

Loosing 500 ped a day does not really mean anything, talk about average returns over a few k ped. If you are like me and turn over shrapnel while you are hunting you could be spending a few times what you started with.

The riffles you use cost about 15 ped a min to run with an amp and some buffs. So 900 ped a hour but lets take off some for healing, running, repairing, and say you are only shooting 80 percent of the time. So 720 ped, even with a shitty and unlikely 80% return you can only loose 144 ped a hour. That's like three and a half hours of hunting knowing you are getting shit loot, at what point do you stop and do something else. Odds are you are getting over 90 percent returns though and hunting more hours then you can afford, at that point it would be closer to ten hours to loose 500ped.

I love to plant my self like a turret and just fucking hammer mobs for five or ten hours but I also know it destroys my ped card and stopped doing it.

I picked up other games to curb my EU spending, It sucked at first but I have days where I want to play video games for five or ten hours and playing EU ill just piss away money. I also found a lot of really great games to spend time on, ones I like just as much as EU now.

study bankroll management.This might not be your biggest problem but once you understand it the game will rise different questions and you might be able to solve it if you know want from this game.
Right now you are in a very bad spot in terms of progress and the information you are getting/using.
You will figure out later i suppose.. for a cost

Find a decent UL gun to stop paying MU. Changed my hunting experiane no end

Is the game only for millionaires? I'd have to say no. There's a lot to do in the game, you need to carve your own niche and not follow the crowd, and you need to be willing to go with the flow and not stay hunting the same mobs expecting things to get better (in fact, don't just stay hunting)

I used to have a lot of money invested in the game but a few years back I cashed most of it out and left myself a set of gremlin, an adjusted stark/beast, and a couple of kped to play with (I was around lvl 75 pro standing blp sniper). I now have a shop, Ghoul, Mod stark/dante, mace VI and a few other smaller weapons. I'm lvl 122 blp sniper and have well over a couple of kped to play with.

I've made a few small deposits (the boxes finally tempted me) but I've withdrawn more than I've deposited. Although my skills are fairly high I don't have the gear to compete with other players of a similar level, but that's ok, I just have to do what I can.

I'm not going to tell you how I've survived and prospered. Firstly, if you find a way to profit then telling people will inevitably make the activity unprofitable. Secondly, much of what I did is no longer viable, things change and you change with them (even if I do like to complain about changes, I have to move on).

There's a lot of great info here and on wiki and other places, but to really make it in this game you need to know how to use that info, or better still, find info yourself.

I'm not here to brag, just to tell you that you can prosper in the game if you're willing to work at it in your own way. But if you just grab an L gun and go shoot the same mobs you lost money on the week before and the month before that then that's fine for a bit of fun but you will lose peds.

Thank you for answers guys.

Constructives ones..

Spawn said:

The fanboys in here will all tell you to provide some sort of spreadsheet, that they don't believe you and it's not possible etc.

While you shouldn't become a math nerd, it could be handy to start a log in here. if you deposit 150 dollar, make a hunting log, with detailed information of what you do. And where your money goes.
And after three days, make this post. Because then they won't be able to say the first line.

they will say the following line next: that your sample is too low. That your sample is too low is proving your initial point. That you have to be a rich kid to play this game.
I think 1500 ped is a nice amount of ped to hunt atrox with. It should last longer than 3 days.
Make your log, show us (and specifically Mindark) how their game works with the most eco tools ingame.

Click to expand...

When I get 50% return on a run (yes it happens), the first answer I get from friends is always "it's not possible".

Well, I guess I did it cause I didn't know it was impossible first..

I started keep a closer eye on my return.
Take screenshots before and after runs.

If I start a log here, it would be a pretty bad advertissment for the game...

jambon said:

This game has always been the unofficial "millionaires playground"...

Click to expand...

For sure I'd love to get an UL gun, but it's expensive..
I mean L50 maxed UL gun is about 40K at least.

So it confirm my last sentence;
If you are not able to deposit thousands of $, your condamned to loose.

DavinFelth said:

I respect the first reply post, but I still also hate the "you need more sample size" response also.
My experience is like yours, and I have to imagine many others. I depo 150 and it last days. Maybe not 3
days, but for sure not 30 - either way it's an amount to time in game ratio that I cannot live with. Only way
I think people could is if they make huge salaries or some other type of situation.
Lower price to play, increase advertising, and I believe more players will come.

Click to expand...

Same, 150$ last from 3 days to about 10 days when I am in a lucky strike..

It started around level 50, It was alot better before this.

BigPimping said:

High mu setup on low mu mob just for sake of mission is the first mistake i notice. Im sure there are others, perhaps you dont know the game as well as you think. You dont need to be rich to do well but having a bankroll helps you ride variance. With small hunts/deposits you wanna be hunting the highest mu mob/mobs in your kill range with the best setup you can afford as it will make your ped go a lot further/give you better chance to succeed and the higher avg mu your mob the lower your overall variance will be.

Click to expand...

What you mean "high MU setup" ?

I said I stick on LR-45 cause it's lowest MU rifle around.

Im sure there are others, perhaps you dont know the game as well as you think.

Click to expand...

Indeed maybe I don't know the game as well as I think..
so which one ?
I have a Z12 also... should I stick on this one and puny mobs forever ?

You dont need to be rich to do well but having a bankroll helps you ride variance.

Click to expand...

So you don't need to be rich but you need a big bankroll ?..
Hmm there is probably something I don't get here..

With small hunts/deposits you wanna be hunting the highest mu mob/mobs in your kill range with the best setup you can afford as it will make your ped go a lot further/give you better chance to succeed and the higher avg mu your mob the lower your overall variance will be.

Click to expand...

I totally agree whith that but..
For sure I'd like to get MU from hunt loot.
Please tell me a single example of such a mob.
Which mob will give you 125% MU at least (only to get back gun's MU) on a big sample ?
I don't know any.
Everybody tell one have to hunt for MU but they can't never tell one single mob.

MU comes from rarity.
For an example, when you get Output things at 200% on a mob, it will be like 2 ped TT every 200ped spent..
That's like 1% MU, same as crapnel..

Entropia is not for millionaires only.

But (as in real life) is more fun than

atomicstorm said:

So much condescension here when it is completely unnecessary. It is just math: Risk of ruin. 1500ped is not enough to cover what I assume is 3-4ped (with regen) mobs. It just isn't. Hate it or love it about the game, but that is what it is.

Click to expand...

I said Atrox old just for an example of what is about the biggest I hunt mostly, in term of HP and level.

Let say 1500 HP Level 25 is the max. (it's an aproximation)
That means I hunt alot of mobs smaller than this.
Most of Iron missions I finished are on small mobs like Combibo, Berycled (best return and best loot I've got on Stalker), Kerberos, Molisk.. etc.. I can't remember all.

I hunt some Troxes sometimes, I'm at about half of last stage in Iron.

SupaPres said:

Low levels get free ammo everyday?!?!

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Free ?

You must confuse whith another game..

Aeris_is_back said:

I can burn 500 ped a day leaning on larger mobs with a lc55 or whatever for ten hours...

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I calculate about 500ped/hour cycled at maximum.
But maybe its a bit more, not sure..

Anyway, that's right that even whith the "great" 90% return, it's 5$ lost every hour (not couting MU of gears), that's 25$ for 5 hours hunt/day, so 175$/week.

This is alot for a free game !..

I picked up other games to curb my EU spending.

Click to expand...

I'm so afraid this is sadly the best solution...

I still like this game.. Don't ask why, I think I don't know.

messi91 said:

study bankroll management.This might not be your biggest problem but once you understand it the game will rise different questions and you might be able to solve it if you know want from this game.
Right now you are in a very bad spot in terms of progress and the information you are getting/using.
You will figure out later i suppose.. for a cost

Click to expand...

study bankroll management.

Click to expand...

This is your answer to everything, right ?
You posted this sentence about 50 times probably...
I would have been surprised if you didn't post here.

At least we have a millionaire's point of view now..

But the funny part is that you probably have the biggest bankroll in this game, and the bigger it is the easier it is to manage.

How can you tell that whith a 400k$ account and probably more than 1 million PED on your card ?
What "management" are you talking about !?

Give me 2 millions PED and I don't even need a brain anymore..

But you answered my question here.. This game was made for you.

dombath said:

Find a decent UL gun to stop paying MU. Changed my hunting experiane no end

Click to expand...

I think I'm not the only one that simply can't deposit 4k$ for an UL gun,
but still want to play the game.

slither said:

Is the game only for millionaires? I'd have to say no...

Click to expand...

I keep hope.. I guess.

I'm not going to tell you how I've survived and prospered. Firstly, if you find a way to profit then telling people will inevitably make the activity unprofitable. Secondly, much of what I did is no longer viable, things change and you change with them (even if I do like to complain about changes, I have to move on).

Click to expand...

I feel like this game in the past was rewarding some players for being "smart", and I liked that.
But now I feel it rewards some for only being rich...

slither said:

Is the game only for millionaires? I'd have to say no. There's a lot to do in the game, you need to carve your own niche and not follow the crowd, and you need to be willing to go with the flow and not stay hunting the same mobs expecting things to get better (in fact, don't just stay hunting)

I used to have a lot of money invested in the game but a few years back I cashed most of it out and left myself a set of gremlin, an adjusted stark/beast, and a couple of kped to play with (I was around lvl 75 pro standing blp sniper). I now have a shop, Ghoul, Mod stark/dante, mace VI and a few other smaller weapons. I'm lvl 122 blp sniper and have well over a couple of kped to play with.

I've made a few small deposits (the boxes finally tempted me) but I've withdrawn more than I've deposited. Although my skills are fairly high I don't have the gear to compete with other players of a similar level, but that's ok, I just have to do what I can.

I'm not going to tell you how I've survived and prospered. Firstly, if you find a way to profit then telling people will inevitably make the activity unprofitable. Secondly, much of what I did is no longer viable, things change and you change with them (even if I do like to complain about changes, I have to move on).

There's a lot of great info here and on wiki and other places, but to really make it in this game you need to know how to use that info, or better still, find info yourself.

I'm not here to brag, just to tell you that you can prosper in the game if you're willing to work at it in your own way. But if you just grab an L gun and go shoot the same mobs you lost money on the week before and the month before that then that's fine for a bit of fun but you will lose peds.

Click to expand...

I have a similar situation as Slither....Now I hunt mobs I have fun hunting (usually small mobs) and am surprised at, not only how long my ped lasts, but sometimes actually prosper. I havent depoed in over a year now but am only considering it now for a few upgrades on things. My brother also plays and has for years too, but he never does more than $40/month, much like the cost of any other online game. I have, over the 7 years I have played, deposited thousands into the game, but have also been able to withdraw that amount or more. Timing was everything to my success there. Now I play for fun...pure , unadulterated fun.

OP, you have a bad misunderstanding of "rich" and "millionaire". You're use of those words reminds me of a Socialist child complaining because other kids have better toys. Most people in this game are neither, just willing to depo. And then there's the lucky one's who, after years of hard work, can afford "better toys".

You can play, every day, for free if you're willing to sweat. It's boring as hell, but it can be done. You can also get a real low level UL weapon and use the hell out of it til you skill up to use something better, while accumulating PEDS from selling the loot you get.

This simple and basic formula is exactly how most of us "old timers" started.

As you get older, you also (IRL) start to earn more money (unless you're just a Socialist and do nothing but complain about us "rich" guys.). At that point, you can deposit more $$ if you want a higher level of play.

Be that as it may: the game now has been cluster-fucked so bad that all the old rules no longer apply. You have to modify your play to suit your income and your willingness to depo.

If hunting isn't working for you, try mining (no amps). My 1st week of play (over 10 years ago), I hit (using a TT finder and TT extractor) a 5529 force nexus. After spending 4 days extracting it from the ground, I sold it for enough to craft Level 1 amps, and stood next to Auktuma while he taught to craft.

Don't try to climb a ladder by jumping 1/2 way up. Start at the bottom rung, and work your way up. Balance your play with your skills, outfits and willingness to depo.

I know it's a pain in your ass to NOT hit globals every time you log in - we all feel that way. Just relax. You'll do fine.

Get a real Mentor who'll work with you. That should help. Good luck.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

This is your answer to everything, right ?
You posted this sentence about 50 times probably...
I would have been surprised if you didn't post here.

Click to expand...

And I will post it everytime for each individual who complain about depositing 150$ and got a bad return on on a short period of time.Its the most common mistake in this game.

~ At least we have a millionaire's point of view now.. :smoke:[/QUOTE said:

You have a wrong impression about my financial status but its fine.

But the funny part is that you probably have the biggest bankroll in this game said:

I did start the game with low bankroll.I did not deposit for large bankroll until i read all posts from 2008-2013 in this forum to absorb as much as possible positive information from the best in this game.

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How can you tell that whith a 400k$ account and probably more than 1 million PED on your card ? What "management" are you talking about !? :scratch2:[/QUOTE said:

Bankroll management apply as low as $10/month probably and i'm sure it will fit your $150 too.

Give me 2 millions PED and I don't even need a brain anymore..

But you answered my question here.. This game was made for you.[/QUOTE said:

The game was meant for everyone.I came late.I just look at it and play it from a different angle.
Now breath relax, analyze your mistakes and see what you can improve.For now focus on you instead of me or others.

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jambon said:

This game has always been the unofficial "millionaires playground"... that's nothing new.

Click to expand...

Absolute BS.

Unless I've got some hidden millions somewhere that I dont know of

~ Cirrus ~ said:

I know this game pretty well..
Played in the past whith an other avatar for almost 10 years. (this old account has been closed by myself)

I'm now level 61 hit, and I stick on armatrix LR-45 cause I think 125% MU is enough, LR-50/55 are about 160% MU that is really insane.. (how are you suposed to get back 60% MU in hunt loot )

So I use LR-45 mostly, and I used alot of CDF guns (from daily tokens)

I hunt LOW level mobs. (I'd say Atrox old max usually, but only occasionaly bigger, for daily sometimes for example)

I finished like 12 Iron, and 3/4 Bronze.

Since few months now, each time I deposit 150$, it last about 3 days !

So my question is...

Well I don't even know what to ask.
I feel like if you're not able to deposit thousands $, you're doomed.

Just tell what you think.

Click to expand...

What if you could hunt a mob that would give a 10% MU on the peds cycled?
With the long term average of 90~95%, that would mean you could play for free, and maybe even make a little profit.

Now, find those mobs. They are there, and they ever changing depending on the season and many other factors.
But as you already "know the game pretty well" me as just a noob (lvl 51) dont need to tell you this.


You dont need thousand of dollars.
Maybe you just need to spend the money better?

You say you deposited 150$ (several times I presume)
Well, 3 of those deposits will buy you a nice UL rifle, big enough to easily hunt atrox size with.
That will save you the MU on those L rifles if you grind a lot.

Entropia is a game for the long term.
If you're prepared to make long term investments you have a far bigger chance to survive without future deposits.
This can be items, deeds, a big storage or whatever might pay back on the long run.

Just auto clicking mobs will eventually lead to near guaranteed failure.
Dont expect to profit with just hunting.
Hunt smart

~ Cirrus ~ said:

I think I'm not the only one that simply can't deposit 4k$ for an UL gun,
but still want to play the game.

Click to expand...

Noo 4k not what i was thinking thats a 40,000 peds gun.

Ep41 or adj maddox will do fine to get some of that % lost back under your control

Paid to crafters is your loss - their gain.

Paid in tt killing mobs you have a far better chance to recoup it somewhere along the line.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

I said Atrox old just for an example of what is about the biggest I hunt mostly, in term of HP and level.

Let say 1500 HP Level 25 is the max. (it's an aproximation)
That means I hunt alot of mobs smaller than this.
Most of Iron missions I finished are on small mobs like Combibo, Berycled (best return and best loot I've got on Stalker), Kerberos, Molisk.. etc.. I can't remember all.

I hunt some Troxes sometimes, I'm at about half of last stage in Iron.

Click to expand...

~ Cirrus ~ said:

I think I'm not the only one that simply can't deposit 4k$ for an UL gun,
but still want to play the game.

Click to expand...

why 40k ped rifle to kill a 1500 hp mob????
I think a decent price range for a rifle for these mobs is somewhere around 2500~5000 ped