Is this game only for millionaires now ?

~ Cirrus ~ said:

I know this game pretty well..
Played in the past whith an other avatar for almost 10 years. (this old account has been closed by myself)

I'm now level 61 hit, and I stick on armatrix LR-45 cause I think 125% MU is enough, LR-50/55 are about 160% MU that is really insane.. (how are you suposed to get back 60% MU in hunt loot )

So I use LR-45 mostly, and I used alot of CDF guns (from daily tokens)

I hunt LOW level mobs. (I'd say Atrox old max usually, but only occasionaly bigger, for daily sometimes for example)

I finished like 12 Iron, and 3/4 Bronze.

Since few months now, each time I deposit 150$, it last about 3 days !

So my question is...

Well I don't even know what to ask.
I feel like if you're not able to deposit thousands $, you're doomed.

Just tell what you think.

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My only advice to all new players...don't hunt for skills (exception: if u want to get fast level 80-100 and to use imk2 or any mayhem/fen guns). Try to see what creatures give you best markup per 1-2-3k peds cost and go for those. When new vu comes some things get higher prices so adapt.

Atrox not worthed.

LeelooM said:

Net return cycling for 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%

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hmm....

Total – Overall 290313,33837in - 272726,63281 out - 93,94% return

95% expected: 275797,67
missing for 95%: 3071,03
missing for 100%: 17586,70
missing for 97%: 8877,30

does this mean 5-digit is waiting for me somewhere?
anyway, i only did hit the 97.xx% once so far, in november 2017 @10k in mark

OP, is really easy: generally speaking, mobs with missions are not worthy, because everyone and their mother are hunting them. The whole concept is bit stupid if you think at it: rush mission with most dps possible, pick the hit skill reward, tt everything in the process, so you can use next gun which costs more etc. This is what most of players are doing. Surely not all mission mobs are bad, but you simply have to analyze the loot.

In my case, I use mostly bc-45 with 33p(l) amp. Don't have the numbers at hand right now, but over 1k ped ammo I need about 27 ped mu to pay for weapon&amp mu and about 40peds mu backup for projected tt loss at a return of 95%. I hunt a couple of mobs which have a reasonable chance of providing this and the difficulty is handling the tt variation. I would need some 3k cash to be relaxed. I don't, I do enjoy a level of gambling.

Just look at your mob in an easy to read sample. 1k ped, 100 mobs, whatever works. Does it loot tt oil, shrapnel, some hides, useless paint and components? Then odds are is called atrox, it roars and is a noob trap.

Then, change perspective on hofs. The overwhelming majority of them are just regular tt return to put you somewhere 95 to 101% tt return. The true jackpots are so rare that you don't need to bother waiting for them.

I am also frustrated that game caters so much to big depositors that MA moved good items in boxes and in pay-to-win (smth which EU never been before). I think is profoundly wrong to not exist at least the theoretical chance to loot a FEN item during the damn FEN event. Is the anniversay of 15 years since game went gold, not the "let 5 players monopolize everything".

But, put yourself in their shoes. Congratz, you have a bc 120 fen ul or what is called, skills to use it maxed and cash to play. Now what you gonna do with it? And generally any item or situation you might envy ingame. You would do what?

At a different scale, being rich in EU only helps with bankroll and that's it. You are wrong about the brain thing. With 1M peds, you have considerable chances of pissing them away on Mulciber (100 peds per kill) in what, half of year? 1 year?

Big money just change the scale of things, but the fundamental principles are the same as if you'd try to keep your breath with 1k.

Study more the auction, use wiki at max and put in it first hand experience. Stats are a must, there is no other way.

Oleg said:

I was going to make a detailed reply to this post, but then I realised it wasn't worth the trouble.

Instead I will just say that it's important to realise that most of the people who post on this forum, and especially the people who post a lot on this forum, haven't got a fucking clue how to play this game properly, and you should ignore them completely.

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Why you tell it don't worth the trouble ?

I would like to read the detailed reply.

mastermesh said:

Anyone can play at any level, but if you are serious about depositing 1 Million USD...

4166.67 per month deposited for 20 years should get you there in the course of a 20 year timeframe...
2777.78 per month deposited for 30 years could also...
2083.33 per month deposited for 40.1 years...
or 1000 per month deposited for 83.33 years...

Of course that's not taking in to account losses/gains along the way...

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Did you seriously calculate this ?

Then this was for you:

For some people I want to tell that you should not take the word "millionaire" at face value...
But I guess most understood what I meant.

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As for the rest of the post, it's a big wall of text whith some interessting things but also alot off-topic.

The idea was to know what do you think about 150$ lasting 1 week at its best for a L61 using LR-45.
I know for sure I could go hunt puny, collecting sweat, or do taming, but that's not what I want to do.

Alukat123 said:

sadly they raised the initial costs quite a lot at loot 2.0....
before loot 2.0 i've depo'd 40$ over 4 years and it was fine, then came loot 2.0 and i had to depo another 150$ within 6 months.... so much for game being cheaper....

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I agree, the game was cheaper to play before they made the game "cheaper to play".

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And I agree too.
I started to wish the return of "Loot 1.0" about 3 weeks after they introduced 2.0.

They simply "flatened" the loot.
Where is randomness in this game ? There is none.
I miss the time when Trox young were droping a 15/20K PED HOF every week..

It probably reduced cost to play for noobs, that's right.
And they also add alot of content for them, missions, (almost) free stuff, etc..

So it's easier and cheaper for beginners, and that's pretty good.

And high level players (that often are the ones whith alot of money to invest) can earn money.
(And I don't blame them for being rich here )

But someone have to pay for this.
And average players do it.

It seems like average players are the ones paying for "free" noob stuff and they pay "taxes" to the big players.
Same as in real life I guess.. Middle class pay for poor and rich people..

It's clearly on purpose that MA did this.
They probably want people to stay more time when they first try the game.
They stated about 4 millions accounts and we all know there is no more than 5K actives players.
So much people in the past tried the game, and stop it so quickly cause of high cost to play.

And someone that reached L50 ingame, has spent some money already and alot of time, the probabilities that he quit the game are alot lower.

LeelooM said:

Net return cycling for 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%

So its all about your costs (they count TT only ofc) AND selling with MU

As simple as that

Average cost of a kill compared to average loot?

Decay gun? Decay Armor? Decay healing?

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Can we swap avatar please ?

~ Cirrus ~ said:

The idea was to know what do you think about 150$ lasting 1 week at its best for a L61 using LR-45.
I know for sure I could go hunt puny, collecting sweat, or do taming, but that's not what I want to do.

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If you play only for fun (and dont like to chrunch numbers, excel sheets, mob picking for markup, etc) and your are not wealthy the best advice you can get --> choose another game

slither said:

From my whole post someone picks out the line 'much of what I did is no longer viable' in order somehow show that the game is just for millionaires

Read the whole paragraph in context and you'll clearly see that the things that are no longer viable have been replaced with other activities.

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I did read it all.

I just pick this one to show what inspired this feeling to me:

I feel like this game in the past was rewarding some players for being "smart", and I liked that.
But now I feel it rewards some for only being rich...

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Alukat123 said:

hmm....

Total – Overall 290313,33837in - 272726,63281 out - 93,94% return

95% expected: 275797,67
missing for 95%: 3071,03
missing for 100%: 17586,70
missing for 97%: 8877,30

does this mean 5-digit is waiting for me somewhere?
anyway, i only did hit the 97.xx% once so far, in november 2017 @10k in mark

Click to expand...

Same TT return, not so much above 90%.

As I said earlier, at 500ped cycled/hour, 5h/day hunt, it's 175$ lost every week only in TT.
Then add the 25% of LR-45 MU... and you have a crazy amount of money, for what some people call "entertainement"...

If you think that to grind endlessly worth 700$/month only for FUN... No offense.. But guys you are crazy..

~ Cirrus ~ said:

And I agree too.
I started to wish the return of "Loot 1.0" about 3 weeks after they introduced 2.0.

They simply "flatened" the loot.
Where is randomness in this game ? There is none.
I miss the time when Trox young were droping a 15/20K PED HOF every week..

It probably reduced cost to play for noobs, that's right.
And they also add alot of content for them, missions, (almost) free stuff, etc..

So it's easier and cheaper for beginners, and that's pretty good.

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i was saying the opposite.. I've said the game became more expensive for beginners ^^
And the randomness didn't got reduced, it got increased at 2.0...

GoNi said:

If I want to invest money to make money, there is tons of way better investment opportunities in my RL enviroment than EU can offer. With much less risk involved!

Sorry, no I am not here to make money.

Its a game, I play a game to have fun/entertainment.
I play a game to relax from my RL or to escape from my reality for some hours.

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If you see it as a "game" for entertainment, then I hope for you that you don't spent more than 20/30$ a month.
That is what cost most games that are really fun to play.

EU is a RCE, this is a "money game", 99% of people play it for "potential gain".

Just imagine that MA decide tomorrow to remove the RCE part, and change for a "monthly fee game".
I bet all what I own that in the next week, 90% players leaved the game and MA closed the door.

Let's be honnest guys, people play EU cause it's a money game.
I don't tell it's the only good part in it.
But it's clearly what makes this game "interesting".

Alukat123 said:

i was saying the opposite.. I've said the game became more expensive for beginners ^^
And the randomness didn't got reduced, it got increased at 2.0...

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Hmm what you call beginners then ?

I think about L10/20.

About randomness, there is no doubt to me, it has been flatened.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

Hmm what you call beginners then ?

I think about L10/20.

About randomness, there is no doubt to me, it has been flatened.

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as it goes for crafting: before 2.0 most crafting runs were 90+% return, now 81% return is common
as it goes for mining: before 2.0 mining runs usually were 80+% return, now i see as low as 61% return quite often
as it goes for hunting: before 2.0 it usually went, put ~1.5 ped in , get ~1.15 ped out of the mob, with occasional no looter and global. These days, put ~1.5 ped in, it's about ~30 pec or about ~75 pec pretty often... and 81% return hunts are pretty common now too..
So for me, the min-max got further apart ^^

Alukat123 said:

as it goes for crafting: before 2.0 most crafting runs were 90+% return, now 81% return is common
as it goes for mining: before 2.0 mining runs usually were 80+% return, now i see as low as 61% return quite often
as it goes for hunting: before 2.0 it usually went, put ~1.5 ped in , get ~1.15 ped out of the mob, with occasional no looter and global. These days, put ~1.5 ped in, it's about ~30 pec or about ~75 pec pretty often... and 81% return hunts are pretty common now too..
So for me, the min-max got further apart ^^

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It does not contradict what I say.

Flatened return don't means better return.

Some people are happy to get constant 95% return, but that means constant losses...

Let say in the past you could have 2 very bad runs at 50% return and 1 very good at 200%.
It was still better on long term that a constant 97%.

And there were still the hope of hitting a big one , that is mostly gone now.

Really don't understand why so may people think that you either play for profit or for fun..what the hell is wrong with aiming to do both ?
Depo or non-depo, (and yes I have done both including 9 months straight as anon-depo new player) have both provided me hours of entertainment and fun. Along the way as a combination of in game profit and some depo (and I am sure as hell not rich in RL) I have through care and work made enough to now own a fair bit in game.

I try to still hunt within or below my skill level and stay mostly eco.. occasional silly splurges for a change of pace
I generally profit from crafting though that is for sure as a result of MU plus some swirlies
I pretty quick change area, change mob or change to another occupation if loot is bad... never been a believer in push on for the global.

So play to enjoy the game, remember to make a profit - you need to know when to quit a bad run, watch the MU, don't be too quick to TT stuff.
and
Don't forget some basic skills are worth the effort to get
VSE will help all your crafting
Evade and Dodge are cheapest armour or armour enhancers in game

now if you will all excuse me I need to go on a rampage through a large spawn of small mobs.. cos I have done enough of the large slow beasties for today

So good luck all and remember there are as many ways to play this game as players.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

And there were still the hope of hitting a big one , that is mostly gone now.

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define big one, i got more big ones (750+) in the past 6 months than in the 4 years before loot 2.0....

~ Cirrus ~ said:

Some people are happy to get constant 95% return, but that means constant losses...

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If you´re unhappy with 95% return you´re hunting the wrong mobs.

Granny Rowan said:

Really don't understand why so may people think that you either play for profit or for fun..what the hell is wrong with aiming to do both ?

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I totally agree.

As I said, the fact it's a RCE, and so potential gain, is the part that makes this game interesting, but it's not the only part.

For sure if you plan to make 100% profit, better chances of success to do only trade ingame, no fun but great chance of profit.

So the fact it is a video game, and you get a bit of fun (mostly whith friends), makes it a good mix.

Alukat123 said:

define big one, i got more big ones (750+) in the past 6 months than in the 4 years before loot 2.0....

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Well it depends on the level of mob for sure.

15/20K on a Trox young is a big one.
50/100K on Leviathan maybe..

This kind of thing happened so much more often in the past.

PS: As an afterthought I'd say that what I called "big ones" start at about x4000 multi and more.
So maybe 14K for small Trox, and about 40K for Leviathan.

Anyway you can check ATH list to get an idea, and check the dates to see that it became more and more rare, especially after 2.0 when it's now probably close to impossible.

GoNi said:

If I want to invest money to make money, there is tons of way better investment opportunities in my RL enviroment than EU can offer. With much less risk involved!

Sorry, no I am not here to make money.

Its a game, I play a game to have fun/entertainment.
I play a game to relax from my RL or to escape from my reality for some hours.

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Sure, there are better ways.
But I consider this small time investment fun.
Making money in a playful way.
But, that's just one of the many play styles.

And yes, for me it's also an escape from reality. I just don't like to pay for it if there are other ways.

But, each his own. The universe offers us all the opportunities.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

If you see it as a "game" for entertainment, then I hope for you that you don't spent more than 20/30$ a month.
That is what cost most games that are really fun to play.

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Have you read my post ?

I play at 20$ deposit a month.
I know there is a lot subscription based games for half that money, which are some fun for a while.
I also have played some of them beside EU, and I can tell you one thing:
I dont play that other games anymore, still play EU!

Why ?

Subscription based games are to easy, not challanging and get boring very fast.
There is no challange to become a millionaire in WoW or Eve, its damn easy, dont even need a brain.

Its a challange to play EU on a 20$ deposit/month and be able to hunt at least 1 hour / day on average.
Its a challange to get a nice toy (my ImpFAP) on a 20$ deposit / month.
There is still some more challanges for me, that I have not achieved yet, but I am working on it.

I play EU because it is RCE, I like swirly and I like to profit or at least break even.
To achieve that is the fun/challange, but if I fail and that happens too, I cant care less that I lost my money as I consider the money as payment for my entertainment.

What I just said is, I am not here to make money.
Making money means constant profit with the intention to withraw more than you deposit.
I dont even consider withdrawing any time in future.
I make my living in my RL, not in the game!

EU is what you make out of it.
For those who want to make their living from EU, well go on, try it. GZ if you manage to do it.
It is just not my goal in EU, why is that so hard to understand, that some people just enjoy EU for what it is:
A GAME !

As like every other game, playing the game means to improve your gear over time and gain skills, so you can use gear more efficent or just better gear.
I am not in a hurry, I skill fairly slow, but its a long time motivaiton no other game has.

I dont need to hunt with big guns at the top end of my level to achieve my goals, can do that on lowish mobs aswell. Just takes longer, but works for me.

GoNi said:

What I just said is, I am not here to make money.
Making money means constant profit with the intention to withraw more than you deposit.
I dont even consider withdrawing any time in future.
I make my living in my RL, not in the game!

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I agree with nearly everything you wrote, but just need to comment on this.

making money doesnt automatically mean profit with the intention to withdraw.
I have no intention to withdraw the money I make.
I intend to use that money to progress, without the need to deposit.

Maybe you mean entropia professionals who play for a living.

GoNi said:

Have you read my post ?

I play at 20$ deposit a month...

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Sure I read.

I'll not repeat what I've already said in previous post, but maybe you didn't fully understand the point of this thread.

If you see EU as a 100% untertainement game, why not, you're free to do it.
But I don't, as I said it's a RCE , so a "money game", and I take it for what it is.

When you say "I take EU for what it is : A GAME", it's where you are wrong IMO.

Take a look, MA themself said it:

MORE THAN A GAME.

https://www.entropiauniverse.com/entropia-universe/

I deposit alot more than 20$/month, and so for a reason.
I don't play money in a money game in order to loose it...
I play it whith a litle hope to win.
That don't means I don't accept to loose it. For sure in any money game you can win or loose.

But the question was to know if 150$ that last systematically 1 week max is something acceptable.

So your reply is not unintersting since it's a point of view that some people probably share, but it is kind off-topic.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

Sure I read.

I'll not repeat what I've already said in previous post, but maybe you didn't fully understand the point of this thread.

If you see EU as a 100% untertainement game, why not, you're free to do it.
But I don't, as I said it's a RCE , so a "money game", and I take it for what it is.

When you say "I take EU for what it is : A GAME", it's where you are wrong IMO.

Take a look, MA themself said it:

MORE THAN A GAME.

https://www.entropiauniverse.com/entropia-universe/

I deposit alot more than 20$/month, and so for a reason.
I don't play money in a money game in order to loose it...
I play it whith a litle hope to win.
That don't means I don't accept to loose it. For sure in any money game you can win or loose.

But the question was to know if 150$ that last systematically 1 week max is something acceptable.

So your reply is not unintersting since it's a point of view that some people probably share, but it is kind off-topic.

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Well you might play to try to win but youre not very good at it (competitive enviroment/no shame in that) if youre trying to win and time after time you lose all your money perhaps change your playstyle. You can never win from the game only from other players so thats a good place to start. $150 can last 10 minutes if youre careless with it or forever if youre smart.

wizz said:

I agree with nearly everything you wrote, but just need to comment on this.

making money doesnt automatically mean profit with the intention to withdraw.
I have no intention to withdraw the money I make.
I intend to use that money to progress, without the need to deposit.

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Yep, having profit is necessary if you want to progress without the need to deposit, having some spare money for withdrawal may just be a byproduct ^^

BigPimping said:

Well you might play to try to win but youre not very good at it (competitive enviroment/no shame in that) if youre trying to win and time after time you lose all your money perhaps change your playstyle. You can never win from the game only from other players so thats a good place to start. $150 can last 10 minutes if youre careless with it or forever if youre smart.

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I said previously that I did pretty well until I reached L50/55.

Why I have to start repeating myself after 7 pages on this thread ?
Too much to read I guess...

~ Cirrus ~ said:

I said previously that I did pretty well until I reached L50/55.

Why I have to start repeating myself after 7 pages on this thread ?
Too much to read I guess...

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So can be variance over small sample? Or what was working before is no longer viable? or perhaps you were just runnnig hot before. Reaching level 50-55 is pretty irellevant in terms of returns. Doesnt seem like you want help though just want to complain a bit and agree with anyone who backs up your point of view.

~ Cirrus ~ said:

When I get 50% return on a run (yes it happens), the first answer I get from friends is always "it's not possible".

Well, I guess I did it cause I didn't know it was impossible first..

I started keep a closer eye on my return.
Take screenshots before and after runs.

If I start a log here, it would be a pretty bad advertissment for the game...

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You should really start a log. Public or not, it will help you get a better view of your loot. Track MU spent and made. You will find much better answers there than what people can tell you on the forums mainly because each person's perspective about the game is unique... We want different things for the game, we're determined to put in different amount of resources (money or time).

I just checked, my lowest return day was 71% and the next one is 89%, the rest of 170 days I hunted this year are over 90%. The 71% tt return day was on a small 2k ped run. I know for some hunters 2k PED can be a big run and I can understand that, but, it actually means a small number of mobs, not a small amount of PED spent.
Yes, it is possible to have a very low return run, when the number of mobs is very low so you should adjust the HP of the mob you kill according to your available time to play. If you only play a couple of hours, go for 200-400 HP mobs only. Nothing bigger. You will kill enough to get into the 92-98% tt return range.

Atrox is one of the worst mobs to kill, especially with a limited weapon. You have very cheap UL melee options to not pay a ton in markup.


No, the game is not for millionaires only. Some people get very far in game with little deposits but smart play and a lot of patience.

Good luck, hope you find what you're looking for, when you know what you're looking for

Those who claim bad runs can't happen

Stats for last 10 days of mining

TT Spent : 47, 135 peds
TT Returned : 36,104 peds

TT % : 76.59%

This was after i got a 1k+ loot.

Around 50% of the mining was on 5% tax area so consider an avg return of 80% for simplicity purpose. All of this was planetside mining.

Last bad run of mine lasted over 150k peds with tt return stuck @ 88% tt.

Last 1 mill+ tracked peds however puts me at 94.2% tt return. ( This includes the current bad period)

So while i can be disturbed by the fact that i am getting such shit return, when i look at the bigger picture i really cant complain much.

The point of the above data is to show that horrible runs do happen and often for a prolonged period of time. Also the reason tracking of data becomes important is people tend to remember the bad better then the good. Tracking removes ambiguity and as they say feelings can be wrong, data not so much so.


Also on topic, most people who have deposited large sums in EU are not necessarily millionaires irl. Quite a few i know are just addicts and/or consider EU a working place.