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Is this game only for millionaires now ?

BigPimping said:
So can be variance over small sample? Or what was working before is no longer viable? or perhaps you were just runnnig hot before. Reaching level 50-55 is pretty irellevant in terms of returns. Doesnt seem like you want help though just want to complain a bit and agree with anyone who backs up your point of view.
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That's not so true...
I don't like complaining for complaining, but tell what is wrong is ok I guess.

You said that I should change my playstyle... well for sure, but it's pretty vague.
And then you said that 150$ should last forever if I am smart... Meaning I'm probably dumb... And maybe I am.. :dunce:

Some people said I should get an UL weapon and I said I will try to do that first.
But maybe you didn't read this either.. :)
 
Evey said:
...No, the game is not for millionaires only. Some people get very far in game with little deposits but smart play and a lot of patience.

Good luck, hope you find what you're looking for, when you know what you're looking for :)
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I have to admit one thing...

Patience is not my virtue. :D :headbang:
 
Well dude you don't need 40k ped gun you can just change your weapon type maybe go with mele ( cheap & can put good dps) SB, LB , Clubs what can you find.Maybe do an unamped mining run or two sometimes, craft some simple I spring /conductors it might give you back what you have lost hunting.But don't go with "all can profit all can succeed".Some ppl that play this game they don't care about return or profit they find fun in it,some have fun grinding missions then going to next mission and next some are all about the profit and withdrawal.Don't expect much from it because you could get dissapointed and angry.I know lot of players that have listened all the advices and bought expensive gear,"eco" gear got the bankroll for long ass grinds and in the end they never got their profit or uber and got very dissapointed and angry,and again they will get advices like system will pay you,you are going to hit it soon,you are doing it wrong,check this check that....some avatars think they are entitled to profit but man to keep this thing rolling someone has to lose.And if you find your golden cow in this game just milk it and keep schtum ;).
 
Divinity said:
...
The point of the above data is to show that horrible runs do happen and often for a prolonged period of time. Also the reason tracking of data becomes important is people tend to remember the bad better then the good. Tracking removes ambiguity and as they say feelings can be wrong, data not so much so.
...
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I'll start a serious tracking. :yup:
 
Can you make depos to keep you hunting for 8-10 hours non stop? ok...ok... some breaks between for food and natural needs are allowed xD
If you done this you might see a difference. At least for me was very "eye opening", for what I can achieve if I have an unlimited or a "descent" bankroll frequently!
Consistency is one of the major factors in this game. Remember that.
Also if you hunt low mobs you have to adjust your expactations accordingly, that's from my point of view.
At the bottom line Entropia it is an expensive MMO after all, nobody that is here for long will say the opposite.
 
Evey said:
That kind of explains a lot :rolleyes:
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It don't explains alot.
It explains a tiny part of it.

I said it's not my virtue, first cause it's true, I know I'm not the more patient guy around..
But mostly cause I already know patience is needed in EU. (I myself did often tell it to beginners)
That means I make effort on this, to be more patient, and so I am.
And I'm getting older also.. That teaches patience. :wise:

But when you do a hunt run and get 50/70% return, it has nothing to do whith patience since you can't shoot faster than what your gun reload speed allows.. :)
 
Billy Jean Ruby said:
Can you make depos to keep you hunting for 8-10 hours non stop? ok...ok... some breaks between for food and natural needs are allowed xD
If you done this you might see a difference. At least for me was very "eye opening", for what I can achieve if I have an unlimited or a "descent" bankroll frequently!
Consistency is one of the major factors in this game. Remember that.
Also if you hunt low mobs you have to adjust your expactations accordingly, that's from my point of view.
At the bottom line Entropia it is an expensive MMO after all, nobody that is here for long will say the opposite.
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I don't get the first part..
Didn't you confuse me whith someone else in this thread ? :scratch2:

I think I never played 8H straight, or very rarely, and I like to eat, there is no way I can forget that.. :banana:

Also if you hunt low mobs you have to adjust your expactations accordingly
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What do you think are my excpectations ?
Actually I think it's only to last longer than 3/7 day whith 150$.. :rolleyes:

And I guess it's better to avoid big mobs then.
Alot of players hunt the biggest they can, they loose alot of money, then people tell them that it's ok cause they gamble on big mobs... :cowboy:
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
I don't get the first part..
Didn't you confuse me whith someone else in this thread ? :scratch2:

I think I never played 8H straight, or very rarely, and I like to eat, there is no way I can forget that.. :banana:



What do you think are my excpectations ?
Actually I think it's only to last longer than 3/7 day whith 150$.. :rolleyes:

And I guess it's better to avoid big mobs then.
Alot of players hunt the biggest they can, they loose alot of money, then people tell them that it's ok cause they gamble on big mobs... :cowboy:
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As an approximation, expected time 1500 ped will last you is 30k ped cycled if you hit a correction HOF (~95% TT), or 21.5k if you don't (~93%) TT. If you cycle 500 ped/hr, that'll last you 60/53 hours.

Just for reference. (This assume you are around 60% efficiency or so.)
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jhereg again.


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Hunting is a loss activity, at least at the lower and mid levels (can't speak for ubers). Unlike other professions, you already know ~80-85% of your loot is going to be 101% MU. Even hunting high MU mobs, you are only going to be able to boost your return by 1-2%. If you are getting 93-95% long term, then with good MU you will be looking at 95-97% long term. You just need to do the math to figure out how long you want to be able to play with your budget.

Also the ArMatrix crap is way overpriced and not worth it, IMO. If someone tells you ArMatrix is the best thing for you, first ask them if they are an ArMatrix crafter. If you are going to stick with L guns, there's plenty to choose from around 104-106% MU. That 120% MU ArMatrix is only giving you maybe an extra 10% efficiency, which is only 0.7% better return. If you are playing for fun, I don't think it's worth it since you won't make back all that extra MU you are paying. If you are trying to be a serious grinder then you need UL gear.



If you want to actually play for profit, there's plenty of activities that can provide that. Hunting is not one of them.
 
Detritus said:
Also the ArMatrix crap is way overpriced and not worth it, IMO. If someone tells you ArMatrix is the best thing for you, first ask them if they are an ArMatrix crafter. If you are going to stick with L guns, there's plenty to choose from around 104-106% MU.
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I've compared Armatrix LR-25 with Trekkies Delight 9 (L) both used with shack-a-lacka laser amp MK-I on demon hacker prior to rt loot revamp

Armatrix LR-25: 37,59% shrapnell
Trekkies Delight 9 (L): 43,42% shrapnell

So you need to figure out if the additional MU from additional non-shrapnell loot on Armatrix makes up for the higher MU of the gun ^^
 
Alukat123 said:
I've compared Armatrix LR-25 with Trekkies Delight 9 (L) both used with shack-a-lacka laser amp MK-I on demon hacker prior to rt loot revamp

Armatrix LR-25: 37,59% shrapnell
Trekkies Delight 9 (L): 43,42% shrapnell

So you need to figure out if the additional MU from additional non-shrapnell loot on Armatrix makes up for the higher MU of the gun ^^
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According to MA:

Charlie|MindArk: No, DPP and Efficiency are not the same thing. DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP. Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%​

So probably your results are due to DPP differences, not efficiency differences.
 
Detritus said:
According to MA:

Charlie|MindArk: No, DPP and Efficiency are not the same thing. DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP. Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%​

So probably your results are due to DPP differences, not efficiency differences.
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DPP and efficiency are intertwined aren't they? didn't someone posted an efficiency formula here somewhere?
 
Detritus said:
In the same way that cake and icing are intertwined. One doesn't necessitate nor facilitate the other.
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re-reading our posts, i just compared 2 weapons to each other, i haven't said anywhere it's due to efficiency... you brought that up.

Anyway, if the formula at https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...n-Economy-Rating&highlight=efficiency+formula is right, then DPP is part of the equiation for calculating efficiency.
The higher the DPP the higher the efficiency.
The higher the DPP the better the loot composition.
So, it's basically, the higher the efficiency, the better the loot composition. Sure, it's only correlation, not causality.
 
Solution to OP's problem is easy, hunt smaller mobs. I did that in the past and I no longer worry about returns any more. With $150/month you can hunt young daikibas 24/7 and you should not run out of money ;) Main issue here is lack of ability to constrain yourself and play at your depo level, not your skill level.

On side note ppl exaggerate MU on Armatrix gun. To decay gun you also use no-MU ammo/UL amp decay and you should also put extender on that gun. I did calculate that once long time ago and 125% armatrix gun is around 1% effective MU on amount that gun allowed you to cycle - that's being payed off with higher eff. 160% is another story :)
 
Jhereg said:
As an approximation, expected time 1500 ped will last you is 30k ped cycled if you hit a correction HOF (~95% TT), or 21.5k if you don't (~93%) TT. If you cycle 500 ped/hr, that'll last you 60/53 hours.

Just for reference. (This assume you are around 60% efficiency or so.)
Click to expand...

"Numbers don't lie" they say.. :wise:

This maths looks right, and it's about what's happens in better cases.
In reality it's worse since my return in hunt is closer to 90%.

But what you are showing here is what can happen in better case, my hunt will cost me about 3$/H.
That's for sure TT in/out, so I don't even mention the 25% MU of the gun.. :rolleyes:

Then the question is, would I (or would we) pay 3$ every hour in a video game only for FUN ?
My answer is NO.

So why I (or we) are Ok for that ? Mostly because of potential gain. :woot:

And what is worrying here, is that I can hardly see the "cost to play" has been lowered whith 2.0. (I talk for average or medium players, it has been for low levels and beginners)

So if it has been lowered whith 2.0, well it's barely noticeable... :scratch2:

But what is clearly noticeable, and even "blatant", is that the chances to "win" (I mean to hit big) have been lowered, in both terms of amount and size.

To give an example of how I see 2.0, I'd say it's like a lotery (don't argue on that guys, I know EU is not a lotery, just an example :D)

So a lotery where you buy ticket 1$ and have probabilities of 1/10K to win 10K$.
Then 2.0 change this, the ticket now cost only 0.95$, probablities has been lowered to 1/20K and max gain lowered to 7K$.

Bring back 1.0 ! :cheer:
 
Detritus said:
Hunting is a loss activity, at least at the lower and mid levels (can't speak for ubers). Unlike other professions, you already know ~80-85% of your loot is going to be 101% MU. Even hunting high MU mobs, you are only going to be able to boost your return by 1-2%. If you are getting 93-95% long term, then with good MU you will be looking at 95-97% long term. You just need to do the math to figure out how long you want to be able to play with your budget.

Also the ArMatrix crap is way overpriced and not worth it, IMO. If someone tells you ArMatrix is the best thing for you, first ask them if they are an ArMatrix crafter. If you are going to stick with L guns, there's plenty to choose from around 104-106% MU. That 120% MU ArMatrix is only giving you maybe an extra 10% efficiency, which is only 0.7% better return. If you are playing for fun, I don't think it's worth it since you won't make back all that extra MU you are paying. If you are trying to be a serious grinder then you need UL gear.



If you want to actually play for profit, there's plenty of activities that can provide that. Hunting is not one of them.
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Plenty choices at 104/106% ? :confused:

I guess you talk about L20/30 guns here.

There is none for L50/55.

About to get a UL gun, no doubt on that.
But again it's the same here, as I said a maxed L50 UL gun cost at least 40K.

So yes, some said and they are right, there is few UL guns at about 4/5K but those are L30/35 guns again.

The Adj Mili is nice, but it's a Handgun, I'm L61 Sniper and I would like to reach L70 one day.. :ahh:
 
About Efficiency, I think you guys are both right.. :)

I'm not 100% sure, but from what I know, Efficiency is linked to DPP on weapons that were there before Efficiency was introduced.
And it's not linked to DPP (or at least DPP have a lower effect on Effi formula) for those who came after Efficiency was introduced.

That's why you can see some weapons whith "common" DPP and huge efficiency. (mayhem guns for example)
 
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~ Cirrus ~ said:
About to get a UL gun, no doubt on that.
But again it's the same here, as I said a maxed L50 UL gun cost at least 40K.
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If a rifle/carbine UL is to expencive, you can also adapt and switch to handgun.

Adj Madox/Millitary are fairly cheap compared to rifles and carbines.

Or skill to L100 then there is a wide range of different old style weapons that can be used for all day grinding at MUs way below +1k PED.

It is your decision!

Keep your track where you cant afford the UL guns for your level and lose constant on MUs paid, or overthink your playstyle (weapon of choice) and invest some PED in affordable UL weapon.

Next thing is, even if you invest into UL gun, that doesn´t change the fact that you may lose when going towards to big mobs for your budget.

If you would simple go to lower level mobs, then you would find a lot of L guns suitable for you in the 105-110% MU range, and UL guns around +1 to +2 k PEDs.

But you obviously dont want that, so only thing I can say: Your own fail, then continue losing money.

If it doesn´t work what you do, adapt and do it different.
Try different things, untill you find something that works for you.

What you do atm obviously does not work for you, so why you want to continue with it ?
 
GoNi said:
If a rifle/carbine UL is to expencive, you can also adapt and switch to handgun.

Adj Madox/Millitary are fairly cheap compared to rifles and carbines.

Or skill to L100 then there is a wide range of different old style weapons that can be used for all day grinding at MUs way below +1k PED.

It is your decision!

Keep your track where you cant afford the UL guns for your level and lose constant on MUs paid, or overthink your playstyle (weapon of choice) and invest some PED in affordable UL weapon.

Next thing is, even if you invest into UL gun, that doesn´t change the fact that you may lose when going towards to big mobs for your budget.

If you would simple go to lower level mobs, then you would find a lot of L guns suitable for you in the 105-110% MU range, and UL guns around +1 to +2 k PEDs.

But you obviously dont want that, so only thing I can say: Your own fail, then continue losing money.

If it doesn´t work what you do, adapt and do it different.
Try different things, untill you find something that works for you.

What you do atm obviously does not work for you, so why you want to continue with it ?
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You obviously didn't read what I've said earlier..

~ Cirrus ~ said:
As Wizz, Dombath and few others suggested, I think getting a UL gun could help a bit.
If I save 25% MU of weapon, I could probably kill 25% more mobs.

I have some doubt since it's sometimes not better whith CDF guns (zero MU).
But I'll probably try it anyway. :sniper:
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And since I can't afford a 40K gun I'll probably get one of these L30/35 maxed ones.

And indeed if those are harder to get because I guess they are more rare, I even think about to switch to handgun for an Adj Mili.
 
I promised myself to stay out of here, but hey I'll throw a few pointers your way. Now remember that years of knowledge is incredibly valuable in this game, and is does take quite a lot of experimenting to find optimal efficiencies.

First thing to consider is "your" HP, not a mobs HP. Protect yourself. How well protected are you? Cost of protection is very low these days and mostly compensated, MA want you to wear amour. So ask yourself why that might be very important, if you get this right (after some experimenting) this will be by far the most drastic turnaround you'll see.

While we're on the HP issue...think about how more of it could help you. I'm not going to spell it out, just think about it. I'm not talking about the ability to take on bigger mobs either. you could threw on a HP ring for example, I wonder what that would do...smiles.

Next thing is don't be afraid to step up and down mobs levels. I smiled a few times at that during the recent events watching players "stepping" and saw the hofs come in. There's a fear attached to it in game as players believe in mob multipliers. I don't actually believe it multipliers myself (I've had enough decent loots taming on L6 mobs to not believe it), I think the system pays what it wants regardless of the mob HP. I popped a 3K hof in Level 3 zombie practice, well below my skill level. Was I stepping and which way did I go? Well that's the experimenting question isn't it.

Costs: Some years ago I had to rethink my play style. I knew I couldn't afford to run these constant 500-1000 ped runs for hours on end. It wasn't sustainable for my personal budget when kids came along and I had a family to support. Some people take the pee but I do taming a lot of the time now. It costs me under 300 ped input for a 2 hour run on endorian devils. So I've learnt to go big, and switch back to small, go big again, switch back to small. Once you've trained your mind to cope with that, life becomes more affordable. By consequence you end up "stepping" and bringing in variety to your play style, and the loot system rewards change.

Storage management: You're be surprised how much crap players have in storage, sell it or dump to TT to improve your cash flow. I have more success with less crap than more. Take all your materials out of storage and put it in a TT window just to see how much you've got (use the TT as a calculator, you don't have to press sell just check your holding). Might be 1000 ped or more, if so that's where the peds you're looking for is hiding.

I think I've said enough to save you a ton of ped. But key thing is experiment, don't just blindly shoot and expect results. Sure EU is expensive, but you can make it cost a whole lot less "it's all about choices".

Rick is approaching 400K skills been in game well over a decade. I'm not planning to be back for a while, I'm skilling hard in game lately.

GL

Rick
 
RickEngland said:
I promised myself to stay out of here, but hey I'll throw a few pointers your way. Now remember that years of knowledge is incredibly valuable in this game, and is does take quite a lot of experimenting to find optimal efficiencies.



Rick
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Some people has 10 years experience and some has 1 years experience 10 times :D
 
RickEngland said:
you could threw on a HP ring for example, I wonder what that would do...smiles.
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Don't discount having a bit of acceleration and or auto loot, (and/or any other buff) as well... some instances, waves, etc. are timed after all. Not having to run over to each mob to loot it with a mouse click may save you just a tad bit of time... of course, range matters too... when you can kill a mob before it does you any damage, well...
 
~ Cirrus ~ said:
And what is worrying here, is that I can hardly see the "cost to play" has been lowered whith 2.0. (I talk for average or medium players, it has been for low levels and beginners)
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Depends... the average and medium levels are nowadays to levels of skill and ped turnover which would have been inconceivable in, say, 2008.

When korss 400 was introduced, it was a gun for everybody except ubers. "Medium" as it was. On the scale of today's weapons, k400 is armatrix 20 or something. Not even mentioning mayhem amps and such.

That is the scale of things. Since PED did remained, per unit, as same value, something had to move with the block of players. And that is the risk in absolute monetary value.

You cannot seriously talk about how much a fixed sum should last, conceptually. You must consider the context.

So, try to play like in the good old times. Take an armatrix 20, slap a104 on it and go kill small maffoids at ares, to replicate what were medium maffoids back then. Then take another look at how does 1k ped look like.

How much did 1500 peds lasted you 10 years ago and what were you doing with them? If the answer is "kill drones at jason with opalo+a104 and make profit", well, the comparison is absurd. If the answer is "kill troxes with mad4+dante", take it from somebody who actually did this in 2006, 1500 peds could very well last you exactly few days.

In my experience, return rate did improve dramatically, but you have to accomodate all factors in a reasonable manner, especially cost per kill, turnover and number of kills.
 
dombath said:
Find a decent UL gun to stop paying MU. Changed my hunting experience no end
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The only truly Viable UL guns need to have a better efficiency rating than their Armatrix Counterparts. I did the math and for most of the Pre-Loot 2.0 unlimited weapons, the Armatrix series has them beat. You can pay up to 140% MU on Armatrix guns and you are still spending less Pec per Damage. For example, I will use the LR-35 and some comparable unlimited guns. All guns are un-amped with just their base DPP and the various levels of markup for the LR-35.


Name Decay Ammo Cost Dmg/PEC Markup
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.390 2.968 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.513 2.946 110%
Maddox IV Adjusted 3.450 700 10.450 2.926 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.636 2.924 120%
Isis LR53 Modified 3.991 1800 21.991 2.908 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.759 2.903 130%
CalyTrek CR Spirit MK.I 0.990 1394 14.930 2.886 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.882 2.882 140%
EWE EP-41 Military Adjusted 1.292 1200 13.292 2.876 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 16.944 2.871 145%
Maddox IV Adjusted 3.450 700 10.450 2.926 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 17.435 2.790 180%
Isis LR53 4.121 1800 22.121 2.796 100%
ArMatrix LR-35 (L) 1.230 1516 17.435 2.790 185%


This just gives you an idea of how much you are actually saving using armatrix limited weapons vs the lower efficiency counterparts. It also does not take into consideration how higher efficiency positively effects loot returns/composition. As a crafter it angers me somewhat when I am selling below 120% MU and the player still asks for an even bigger discount on the weapon, because for a majority of the guns (between 50-59% efficiency) paying 120% is still huge savings.


Amps skew the numbers a little, using a 21 dmg amp for an lr 35 and for say a pistol which does 42 dmg (perfect fit) is not a fair comparison. You need to have a perfect fit or same ratio of amp damage to weapon damage to accurately compare DPP between two amped weapons.
 
RickEngland said:
Storage management: You're be surprised how much crap players have in storage, sell it or dump to TT to improve your cash flow. I have more success with less crap than more. Take all your materials out of storage and put it in a TT window just to see how much you've got (use the TT as a calculator, you don't have to press sell just check your holding). Might be 1000 ped or more, if so that's where the peds you're looking for is hiding.
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LOL if it would be only 1000 PED locked in to small stacks to auction it, I would be really really happy.

For some things its really hard to find traders/resellers and the MU is to good to dump it to TT, so I keep it in storage untill I have enough of it to drop it into auction.

It really locks a lot of PEDs !
 
@Goni
I hunt very sparse now but from me components like (tier I-II) and paints (few cans at a time) goes to TT most of the time! same as mineral/enmatter leftovers (single ones). Sometimes this can be very usefull when you can't wait to make stucks and need cash to flow.
 
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