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List of official statments pertaining to loot post 2.0

yeeck said:
There so many famous forum that discuss about investment on listed companies shares, options and unit trust.
Everything that you can relate there to here is really very similar.
Sad to say this, I let you figure out the end results yourself.
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If you think I still need to figure things out after 17 years then I wish you luck with that thought.
 
Ferial said:
However, the same probability(or similar) applies to lotteries, (and pretty much any instance of "investing" with big potential payouts) one could hit nothing and claim that lottery is a scam, and one could hit the jackpot twice in a row and praise the lottery.
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"Twice in a row"? Nah, that's scam too. :laugh: ?

Ferial said:
Now the law of large number claims that this is improbable, not impossible.
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Yep. Somewhere in the universe, somebody flipped a coin one million times and it landed on heads EVERY SINGLE TIME. ?

Ferial said:
The best way I´ve found to look at this game is like a game of poker, but with chips of a lot of different TRUE values and those chips ACTUAL values differ from time to time. You play against other players, and you need to win the most of the chips that have the most value relevant to their TRUE value at any time. Just keep in mind that everytime you play a hand, MA takes a bit of your wager. Make sure you beat your opponents over time
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Or a RAFFLE DRAWING, where every shot is ONE TICKET ENTRY (a raffle ticket) entered into the drawing. :laugh: :laugh: ? ?
 
RobBuona said:
If you flip a coin 500,000 times [...] you will get very close to 250,000 heads and 250,000 tails.
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Not in MY universe, sister. I always (try to) make sure it's at least 250,001 and 249,999 ?
 
yeeck said:
Do you believe MA has reached their limits?
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Has the history of the real world and economies reached theirs??

RCE VR games have a wide-open future, possibly limitless.
So, no. MA has not reached their limits. They're just getting started!! :p
 
Did they ever say anything on loot waves? Past they were looking into to?

sorry if I missed it in this thread.. at work and knackered 😂
 
I am sure all the information in the OP is still valid, but new players should factor in that this information was given before the looter professions existed.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
I am sure all the information in the OP is still valid, but new players should factor in that this information was given before the looter professions existed. We have had no recent update from Mindark about how the looter profession exactly works and how it impacts on the information they gave here.
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There’s no way any of this is invalid (except maybe that 7% from eff) there’s just another factor in the calculation now
 
DrGirlfriend said:
There’s no way any of this is invalid (except maybe that 7% from eff) there’s just another factor in the calculation now
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Yup, and the following information could be invalid now as new players start at looter profession 0 and the 2017 data set didn't include looter profession.

If instead killing 200,000 Punies also about 5000 PED the expected loot return is going to be very close to the expected average of 96%+ seen in the 2017 group,
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Is this by chance outdated information?
I've seen that in some instances these criteria are false and/or have been disproven.
 
Kain Dewey Fall said:
I've seen that in some instances these criteria are false and/or have been disproven.
Click to expand...

Please do let me know what that is.

EDIT: Also, none of this is outdated. These are still the official statements pertaining to loot 2.0
There has been no statements on whether or not looter has had any impact on previous statements.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
Yup, and the following information could be invalid now as new players start at looter profession 0 and the 2017 data set didn't include looter profession.
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That statistic is not any factor of loot or anything relevant, that's just the average for 1 year, which would be different every year and is just statistical information and not part of the actual loot statements at all, such as DPP affecting composition and efficiency affecting overall tt return, those are examples of loot statements.

No statement about loot has been disproven.
 
Ferial said:
Please do let me know what that is.

EDIT: Also, none of this is outdated. These are still the official statements pertaining to loot 2.0
There has been no statements on whether or not looter has had any impact on previous statements.
Click to expand...
-CUHOF Dungeons strictly give a 100% return based on MU data, so TT+MU=100% return
But as for everything else, I am about to run a event on Rocktropia and haven't prepared for the day yet, so I will come back to this and run down the list detailing what I am aware of that could be considered invalidating later, perhaps.
-I find it interesting though that killing a whole bunch of mobs at once (presumably) gives the average return of 96/% while killing 1 mob or fewer mobs that take longer to kill would be random because of the kill mobs faster for more stable loot returns. I remember reading from the notes that efficiency determines whether or not you get an TT, meaning the TT return is increased, that you are more likely to get a single item with a higher tt value, resulting in higher likelihood of getting a item, but the MA person did not explain it the way the notes explained it.
-Also, interestingly enough. There is actually an equation that always comes out as the weapons efficiency number when you calculate the Ammo, Decay, and Dmg of a weapon.
-What is a personal loot pool?
-Is it really a return if it can't be 100%?
-I don't think the land area note is very explantory. Pretty much just says, Yes. Land owners get money from hunting and mining. :/ Based on everything else said about loot, it is like saying, anywhere you hunt whether on a LA or not on a LA, you are being taxed for all LA in the game... But not.
-Then he brings up tinfoil saying repairing items dosn't effect loot after saying that decay counts toward loot. whatever...

Now, IDK if I am right or what, of which is based on what I read in the Developer Notes, as for what this person said, it is like shoving the reality to the side and saying that what you think is happening happens and as for your question about how what you know is happening happens, "Not enough data provided".
But it also raises questions that I addressed above about the legitemacy of straightforward answers as a lot of this information is redundant to the other half.

But I am mainly just bringing up that it is easy to notice that loot is also TT+MU=100% in CUHOF dungeons.
 
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-CUHOF Dungeons strictly give a 100% return based on MU data, so TT+MU=100% return
But as for everything else, I am about to run a event on Rocktropia and haven't prepared for the day yet, so I will come back to this and run down the list detailing what I am aware of that could be considered invalidating later, perhaps.
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CUHOF dungeons absolutely do not factor in MU of the key into the loot, there just simply is not such a system coded into the game, not to mention how easy it would be to abuse that simply by manipulating the mu of the keys.

Kain Dewey Fall said:
-I find it interesting though that killing a whole bunch of mobs at once (presumably) gives the average return of 96/% while killing 1 mob or fewer mobs that take longer to kill would be random because of the kill mobs faster for more stable loot returns. I remember reading from the notes that efficiency determines whether or not you get an TT, meaning the TT return is increased, that you are more likely to get a single item with a higher tt value, resulting in higher likelihood of getting a item, but the MA person did not explain it the way the notes explained it.
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Killing many mobs gives a lot of loot events, thats all they are saying. If you kill 1 mob and get a 60% return and stop, you only got a 60% return, or maybe you got 500% from 1 kill, either way its not any way to track.
If you kill 100000 mobs all the high loots and low loots will average out to around 95%
That is all they are saying. Nothing interesting there imo
More effeciency is not 'higher chance of getting a single item with more TT" it just means on average your TT return will be higher, based on a factor of a total of 7%

Kain Dewey Fall said:
-Also, interestingly enough. There is actually an equation that always comes out as the weapons efficiency number when you calculate the Ammo, Decay, and Dmg of a weapon.
Click to expand...
No there is no efficiency equation, there is for most old items but it does not apply to newer ones such as my azuro or the BGH guns.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-What is a personal loot pool?
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There is no personal loot pool so don't worry about it. Lol what a personal loot pool would mean is that each characters returns are tracked, so say you lost 5000 ped, a personal loot pool would mean the game tracks that and 'owes you' 5000 ped to balance. No such thing occurs, your previous losses or gains DO NOT affect future losses or gains.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-Is it really a return if it can't be 100%?
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The word return does not require it to be a positive return.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-I don't think the land area note is very explantory. Pretty much just says, Yes. Land owners get money from hunting and mining. :/ Based on everything else said about loot, it is like saying, anywhere you hunt whether on a LA or not on a LA, you are being taxed for all LA in the game... But not.
Click to expand...

Land area is perfectly explained, a 3% tax is 3% less loot for you.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-Then he brings up tinfoil saying repairing items dosn't effect loot after saying that decay counts toward loot. whatever...
Click to expand...


Repairing items doesnt count as decay, using the item does. That means that if you repair a bunch of items you are not 'spending ped' you are just moving it from pedcard onto the item. This doesn't affect you and mostly only affects affiliates.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
Now, IDK if I am right or what, of which is based on what I read in the Developer Notes, as for what this person said, it is like shoving the reality to the side and saying that what you think is happening happens and as for your question about how what you know is happening happens, "Not enough data provided".
But it also raises questions that I addressed above about the legitemacy of straightforward answers as a lot of this information is redundant to the other half.
Click to expand...



I know if you're right or wrong, and every single thought you had is basically as wrong as an interpretation it can be.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
But I am mainly just bringing up that it is easy to notice that loot is also TT+MU=100% in CUHOF dungeons.
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You are simply mistaken about this.
 
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DrGirlfriend said:
CUHOF dungeons absolutely do not factor in MU of the key into the loot, there just simply is not such a system coded into the game, not to mention how easy it would be to abuse that simply by manipulating the mu of the keys.
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I wasn't talking about the keys, but that is a good point. MINUS the cost to enter the dungeon, the loot return is TT+MU = 100%
They are trying to eliminate keys on Toulan, Buying keys is quite a bit more expensive than using the Cores.
When using cores though, keys are free. You can pickup the fragments at Temple and sweat the sweat


-So, What Efficiency do I need to get that 96% return rate if I am killing a large number of mobs in a small amount of time so that I get higher average TT Returns? I wonder what level my looter profession would have to be to get that too since the data from 2017 was referenced as "Ubers" although someone was saying that Loot Profession didn't exist at that time.
-You may be right about the equation being relevant to most of all the old guns and not the new ones, but that is like 3000 to 100. Maybe. My argument was not that an equation determines the overall efficacy, my argument is that one exists and it encompasses most of all guns.
-Returns were greater before they "brought back" healing/decay returns, lol.
-They didn't say less loot for you, but okay.So, so much for perfect.
-Thats not very nice, even if in some of your comments you said that I am right about things, and then are ending it saying I am just wrong.
-I didn't mention the keys, but it is a interesting point that considering the cost of the key that it wouldn't be 100% even with the average MU. But it still does what I said it does.
 
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Kain Dewey Fall said:
I wasn't talking about the keys, but that is a good point. MINUS the cost to enter the dungeon, the loot return is TT+MU = 100%
They are trying to eliminate keys on Toulan, Buying keys is quite a bit more expensive than using the Cores.
When using cores though, keys are free. You can pickup the fragments at Temple and sweat the sweat


-So, What Efficiency do I need to get that 96% return rate if I am killing a large number of mobs in a small amount of time so that I get higher average TT Returns? I wonder what level my looter profession would have to be to get that too since the data from 2017 was referenced as "Ubers" although someone was saying that Loot Profession didn't exist at that time.
-You may be right about the equation being relevant to most of all the old guns and not the new ones, but that is like 3000 to 100. Maybe. My argument was not that an equation determines the overall efficacy, my argument is that one exists and it encompasses most of all guns.
-Returns were greater before they "brought back" healing/decay returns, lol.
-They didn't say less loot for you, but okay.So, so much for perfect.
-Thats not very nice, even if in some of your comments you said that I am right about things, and then are ending it saying I am just wrong.
-I didn't mention the keys, but it is a interesting point that considering the cost of the key that it wouldn't be 100% even with the average MU. But it still does what I said it does.
Click to expand...
TBH, I am pretty sure the Key dungeons are different from the Core Dungeons... Or I may be thinking of Team and solo. IDK, been awhile. But the 100% loot return was verified by like 5 people when I ran the dungeon 7 times and started noticing that the loot was oddly specific.
 
Kain Dewey Fall said:
I wasn't talking about the keys, but that is a good point. MINUS the cost to enter the dungeon, the loot return is TT+MU = 100%
They are trying to eliminate keys on Toulan, Buying keys is quite a bit more expensive than using the Cores.
When using cores though, keys are free. You can pickup the fragments at Temple and sweat the sweat


-So, What Efficiency do I need to get that 96% return rate if I am killing a large number of mobs in a small amount of time so that I get higher average TT Returns? I wonder what level my looter profession would have to be to get that too since the data from 2017 was referenced as "Ubers" although someone was saying that Loot Profession didn't exist at that time.
-You may be right about the equation being relevant to most of all the old guns and not the new ones, but that is like 3000 to 100. Maybe. My argument was not that an equation determines the overall efficacy, my argument is that one exists and it encompasses most of all guns.
-Returns were greater before they "brought back" healing/decay returns, lol.
-They didn't say less loot for you, but okay.So, so much for perfect.
-Thats not very nice, even if in some of your comments you said that I am right about things, and then are ending it saying I am just wrong.
-I didn't mention the keys, but it is a interesting point that considering the cost of the key that it wouldn't be 100% even with the average MU. But it still does what I said it does.
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I don’t know what each point your making is in reference to, but I didn’t say you were wrong at the end I said you were mistaken or that your interpretation is wrong, which they are. MU is never returned. There is no system to Even calculate such

Everyone makes mistakes and you shouldn’t be offended if someone simply points it out as such. It’s not like I called you a idiot or insulted you or anything, we all make mistakes.
 
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sachi.mk2 said:
Mindark didn't just make Dev statements about how loot 2.0 works, but also about expected average returns for new players in loot 2.0. Loot stabilization and Reductions in Cost to Play were a large part of the selling point of loot 2.0 in the Dev notes (such as 14). The introduction of the looter profession for new players and low skilled players could invalidate alot of that information. I wouldn't write that off as just statistical information.
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MA never said anything about expected returns for players in loot 2.0 they just stated what the returns were for 1 year
 
Kain Dewey Fall said:
TBH, I am pretty sure the Key dungeons are different from the Core Dungeons... Or I may be thinking of Team and solo. IDK, been awhile. But the 100% loot return was verified by like 5 people when I ran the dungeon 7 times and started noticing that the loot was oddly specific.
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There are only 2 types of instances in this game:

1. Regular creature loot
2. Chest loot at the end without looting creatures



Everything else is just different flavouring from devs
 
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-CUHOF Dungeons strictly give a 100% return based on MU data, so TT+MU=100% return
Click to expand...
I haven´t run a single CUHOF instance, yet I know that this statement cannot possibly be true. If you had said "CUHOF instances have a set return rate, and players that frequently run CUHOF is using this to their advantage by keeping MU at a profitable level" I´d be more inclined to believe you. MU is what other players are willing to pay for what you produce (or likewise, what you are willing to pay for someone else to produce) if no players would pay what it took for a CUHOF instance to break even in MU, you wouldn´t be able to break even on CUHOF (Friendly note, the same applies to ANY area or mob in the game)
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-I find it interesting though that killing a whole bunch of mobs at once (presumably) gives the average return of 96/% while killing 1 mob or fewer mobs that take longer to kill would be random because of the kill mobs faster for more stable loot returns. I remember reading from the notes that efficiency determines whether or not you get an TT, meaning the TT return is increased, that you are more likely to get a single item with a higher tt value, resulting in higher likelihood of getting a item, but the MA person did not explain it the way the notes explained it.
Click to expand...
The notes herein specify nothing at all about the timing of kills, it simply states that if you want stable returns, kill many creatures. I'm not going to make it more difficult than it has to be, but if you want stability, killing as fast as possible is not the way to get there (necessarily). This has nothing to do with the game, but just mathematics.
If you read somewhere in the notes that efficiency increases your chance to get an item, you either misread or misinterpreted.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-Also, interestingly enough. There is actually an equation that always comes out as the weapons efficiency number when you calculate the Ammo, Decay, and Dmg of a weapon.
Click to expand...
There is no equation that "always comes out as the weapons efficiency number when you calculate ammo. decay and damage".
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-I don't think the land area note is very explantory. Pretty much just says, Yes. Land owners get money from hunting and mining. :/ Based on everything else said about loot, it is like saying, anywhere you hunt whether on a LA or not on a LA, you are being taxed for all LA in the game... But not.
Click to expand...
The LA note is very explanatory. LA takes whatever percent is set to from your loot instance. If you get a 15000 PED loot on non-taxed area that would be reduced by 3% on a 3% taxed area to 14550 PED. All other costs are the same.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
Now, IDK if I am right or what, of which is based on what I read in the Developer Notes, as for what this person said, it is like shoving the reality to the side and saying that what you think is happening happens and as for your question about how what you know is happening happens, "Not enough data provided".
But it also raises questions that I addressed above about the legitemacy of straightforward answers as a lot of this information is redundant to the other half.
Click to expand...
I don´t know what you think this is. This is a compiled list of official statements. A list of quotes from official sources. These quotes were collected from threads in which people had questions regarding what was in the Developer Notes, and the developers were kind enough to reply. This is not any one persons thoughts and ideas about how the game works. This is what we KNOW about the game.

IF YOU READ ANYTHING IN THE DEVELOPER NOTES THAT CONTRADICTS ANYTHING IN THE OP, YOU EITHER MISREAD OR MISUNDERSTOOD THE DEVELOPER NOTES AS THESE WERE STATEMENTS MADE TO CLARIFY SAID DEVELOPER NOTES. (if those developer notes were published before the quote date)
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-So, What Efficiency do I need to get that 96% return rate if I am killing a large number of mobs in a small amount of time so that I get higher average TT Returns? I wonder what level my looter profession would have to be to get that too since the data from 2017 was referenced as "Ubers" although someone was saying that Loot Profession didn't exist at that time.
Click to expand...
That is up to you to figure out, in one way or another. Looter professions were not implemented at the time of posting the statistics, and we have not been given any official statement on what, if any, impact the implementation of looter professions had.
Kain Dewey Fall said:
-Returns were greater before they "brought back" healing/decay returns, lol.
Click to expand...
That is definitely possible that this is true for you or any other number of players. If that is the case, I suggest you look at what you were doing differently back then and go back to doing that. Just because "some to all" healing/armor decay is returned, doesn´t mean you have to (or even should) always wear armor and/or heal

Kain Dewey Fall said:
I've seen that in some instances these criteria are false and/or have been disproven.
Click to expand...
So after going through all that, the only "disproven" criteria is the following:
Kain Dewey Fall said:
But the 100% loot return was verified by like 5 people when I ran the dungeon 7 times and started noticing that the loot was oddly specific.
Click to expand...

Your proof is "verified by 'like' 5 people" for instances, that may or may not have been impacted by the loot 2.0 change (as there are still instances that are not working properly as of loot 2.0)
 
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Since CUHOF dungeons were mentioned, I probably have one of the highest CUHOF 1 run amounts (100+). I have never experienced tt positive except for 1 time. The usual return is anywhere from 80-95%. MU is not factored into returns for instances at all.
 
DrGirlfriend said:
I don’t know what each point your making is in reference to, but I didn’t say you were wrong at the end I said you were mistaken or that your interpretation is wrong, which they are. MU is never returned. There is no system to Even calculate such

Everyone makes mistakes and you shouldn’t be offended if someone simply points it out as such. It’s not like I called you a idiot or insulted you or anything, we all make mistakes.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Sorry I got offended.
Ferial said:
I haven´t run a single CUHOF instance, yet I know that this statement cannot possibly be true. If you had said "CUHOF instances have a set return rate, and players that frequently run CUHOF is using this to their advantage by keeping MU at a profitable level" I´d be more inclined to believe you. MU is what other players are willing to pay for what you produce (or likewise, what you are willing to pay for someone else to produce) if no players would pay what it took for a CUHOF instance to break even in MU, you wouldn´t be able to break even on CUHOF (Friendly note, the same applies to ANY area or mob in the game)

The notes herein specify nothing at all about the timing of kills, it simply states that if you want stable returns, kill many creatures. I'm not going to make it more difficult than it has to be, but if you want stability, killing as fast as possible is not the way to get there (necessarily). This has nothing to do with the game, but just mathematics.
If you read somewhere in the notes that efficiency increases your chance to get an item, you either misread or misinterpreted.

There is no equation that "always comes out as the weapons efficiency number when you calculate ammo. decay and damage".

The LA note is very explanatory. LA takes whatever percent is set to from your loot instance. If you get a 15000 PED loot on non-taxed area that would be reduced by 3% on a 3% taxed area to 14550 PED. All other costs are the same.

I don´t know what you think this is. This is a compiled list of official statements. A list of quotes from official sources. These quotes were collected from threads in which people had questions regarding what was in the Developer Notes, and the developers were kind enough to reply. This is not any one persons thoughts and ideas about how the game works. This is what we KNOW about the game.

IF YOU READ ANYTHING IN THE DEVELOPER NOTES THAT CONTRADICTS ANYTHING IN THE OP, YOU EITHER MISREAD OR MISUNDERSTOOD THE DEVELOPER NOTES AS THESE WERE STATEMENTS MADE TO CLARIFY SAID DEVELOPER NOTES. (if those developer notes were published before the quote date)

That is up to you to figure out, in one way or another. Looter professions were not implemented at the time of posting the statistics, and we have not been given any official statement on what, if any, impact the implementation of looter professions had.

That is definitely possible that this is true for you or any other number of players. If that is the case, I suggest you look at what you were doing differently back then and go back to doing that. Just because "some to all" healing/armor decay is returned, doesn´t mean you have to (or even should) always wear armor and/or heal


So after going through all that, the only "disproven" criteria is the following:


Your proof is "verified by 'like' 5 people" for instances, that may or may not have been impacted by the loot 2.0 change (as there are still instances that are not working properly as of loot 2.0)
Click to expand...

This is something that was done like 6 months ago. Loot 2.0 was like 5 years ago. IDK how it could be confused with something before loot 2.0 when CUHOF has been updated like 9 times since Loot 2.0...
And also, all your "Would have to of been happening" scenarios is exactly what was going on.

My argument with LA's is that Loot isn't specific, there is no specific amount, whether your loot will be high or low is not determined by an algorithm. So what difference does it make if the tax is 3% of what you loot if the loot isn't predetermined. Seems redundant. Seems more like it comes from all loot in the game period in that example.
 
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Kain Dewey Fall said:
I honestly don't know what you are talking about. Sorry I got offended.


This is something that was done like 6 months ago. Loot 2.0 was like 5 years ago. IDK how it could be confused with something before loot 2.0 when CUHOF has been updated like 9 times since Loot 2.0
Click to expand...

Cool just don’t want you mad at me your like the only person I’ve team hunted with lol!
 
Kain Dewey Fall said:
My argument with LA's is that Loot isn't specific, there is no specific amount, whether your loot will be high or low is not determined by an algorithm. So what different does it make if the tax is 3% of what you loot if the loot isn't predetermined. Seems redundant. Seems more like it comes from all loot in the game period in that example.
Click to expand...


When loot is calculated (at the time of looting), 3% (or whatever the tax rate) is removed from the sum of the loot at the loot event, and given to the LA owner as raw ped.
 
DrGirlfriend said:
Cool just don’t want you mad at me your like the only person I’ve team hunted with lol!
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I'm not an angry person. I consider it constructive, I think you hate me because I am giving my opinion, most people will straight up tell me to jump into a blender, go into debt from scam, and shove my kindness into a state of claustrophobia before putting it into a sealed box.
I could be wrong, I just don't think I am and haven't been given a reason to believe so based on what I've been told.
 
DrGirlfriend said:
When loot is calculated (at the time of looting), 3% (or whatever the tax rate) is removed from the sum of the loot at the loot event, and given to the LA owner as raw ped.
Click to expand...
Yeh, pretty awesome. You always know that the LA owner is paid a 3% rate of whatever it is you looted based on how much you have at the end of a hunt on the Land Area. Or I guess what you could have looted minus 3%. What is that, calculus or something? I am just curious of the could have looted or it just being that there is a 3% factor of what you loot that is then given to the LA owner.
Like keeping track of what you are having the game contribute to the owner from your gaming activity.
It is like a manufactured affiliate system or reputation system. I just am not clear on that.
 
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