I feel scammed

So I am hunting spiders like a lunatic for, what, 2 weeks now. 3100 spiders later, what do I have to show for it? One piece of L DOA Slugstorm, one esi 12.7 tt, 54 platinum and gold I didn't tracked, maybe 1 for each 150 peds spent or so. And I am ready to bet there is somebody out there with even worse record.

I hunt at 81.6 efficiency and 3.03 dpp, not counting the imp ares. Bags of shrapnel globals, with that tt wood and tt oil. I don't see what I could humanly do at my level to dramatically improve my eco, such as to trigger "optimal loot". +crit chance and +crit damage gear for tens of thousands of peds, why should I bother with that? To loot what, maybe another 12tt esi?

If that's what a mob lvl52 has to offer, why should we bother? Why should we evolve, skill up, use bigger dps, spend a shitload of money on upgrading gear, for what? To loot shrapnel and tt oils from even more difficult mobs? Where is the joy, the excitement, the accomplishment in this?

So I feel scammed about MA's implementation of efficiency and optimal loot. I believe is a carrot which doesn't even exist, save for Charlie's quotes.

Which brings me to the next point. Normally I wouldn't hunt at this cost/kill, I don't feel comfortable at 5 ped/kill, is too much for me for a game. But hey, that is where MindArk locked FEN event.

"Fifteen years since game went gold". And how MindArk chose to celebrate it? Offering some people the occasion to bet their IRL money against future availability of ul high efficiency guns. Period, that is all to it. "PLEASE DEPOSIT MOAR". "BUY MOAR PLATINUM, WE WILL HAVE A HAPPY XMAS. WE, NOT YOU". That's what MA did with FEN.

Why don't we have so many items which could have marked this so very special moment, because IT DAMN IS SPECIAL. 15 years for some anonyms from Sweden to resist in this highly competitive market, it is an achievement. Maybe MA should celebrate it otherwise than being greedy assholes?

Why don't we have in loot, accesible through game mechanics:

- ul FEN weapons
- L FEN weapons
- L blueprints for FEN items
- armours with a special mark (like Viceroy Skullcandy edition) which to give some modest bonus (say, 1% acceleration, 1% evade, 5% skillgain etc)
- vechicles with different colours and a FEN symbol
- attachements which to give some bonuses (they WERE able to design this for gambling with strongboxes, so the design resources exist)
- FEN mining tools, L and UL
- personal crafting terminals branded with FEN
- FEN weapons for all damn professions and levels, MindArk. What do you have to offer to, say, knife users lvl60, your middle finger?
- Mindforce, hello MindARK, do you remember there exist this damn profession
- dedicated instances with special content (ok this isn't a lootable item, but you get the point)

And so on.

Where is the joy of this damn FEN event, the excitement, the mini competitions both announced and ad-hoc which to gather people like flies to honey, for, dunno, a burst in platinum drops or items or skill bonuses?

SOMETHING

You had one job to do with this damn FEN event, MindArk. You put so much dedication to strongboxes and encouraging gambling that is f'n disgusting, but for the core game you did nothing good in years. Ever since the buff introduction, you only strive to limit profit occasions, to destroy markup as soon as it appears somewhere and you do your best to gather people at gambling on EP4 and strongboxes while making the core game a bland experience.

Fifteen years since game went gold, come and deposit for the chance to appear on Hof list when you open a strongbox, hiphip hurray for the most exciting virtual universe

Hey, this is MA's anniversary, not yours, not mine, not ours !

MA wants a gift for this anniversary..

And seeing how bad are return lately, I suspect they plan to buy a castle again..

~ Cirrus ~ said:

Hey, this is MA's anniversary, not yours, not mine, not ours !

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That, pretty much, indeed

when i came back i started with the spider quest, got a 750 esi and oke loot was like +9k and said "ill finish the quest" when i did i was on 0 ) like moved to maffoid wave got a 5k fast. They really have HUGE volatility its really an annoying mob to hunt.

Yea they do have tt volatility, but not thinking much at ped loss or gain right now, but excitement (or lack of it, actually). Shrapnel globals really get my nerves after a while.

The plat drop rate fluctuates but overall I think it's hard to not at least break even in the long run hunting spiders with the plat/gold and occasional markup items they drop.

I do agree though it would be nice if they would drop some FEN items in loot even if they aren't uber items.

try the spiders at takuta plateau just north of sakura city tp. ive heard loot content and stability is better on land areas

I dont get the scam comment, no one promises you anything how can it be a scam. Ontop of which, while spiders may be one of the easiest mobs to farm plat tokens due to hp they arent one of the best cus the rest of their average mu sucks. So really the only reason to hunt them is to farm plats and you got plenty of those. You also seem to not understand the term optimal loot, its not a chance to loot esi's 10x or a modemerc per 3k kills e its just the ratio of nonshrap:shrap, with spiders thats not even neccersarily optimal way to hunt cus most of their non shrap is tt food, even with thier avg shitty mu you should be looking at 103-104% avg mu longterm during FEN with your kind off effic around 97-98% tt return so 1-2% profit over big enough sample.

Variance is gonna be pretty high with low expected profit but as most profit comes from plats which is consistent drop it shouldnt be too bad (you dont mention your actual return guessing it wasnt bad at all) , there are plenty of better lvl 50+mobs that are worth skilling and gearing up to hunt. You picked a shitty one, the gear and skills only give you more choices if you arent a smart player and still make bad ones it makes no difference there are bad lvl 10 mobs bad level 50 and bad level 99 mobs, FEN is actually a very forgiving event cus even the shittiest choices are still winning/break even. Make better choices youy will get better restuls.

Sound like an unjustified whining thread here where you expect to loot a good ul item in a smallish sample (3100 kills not as much as many have done) or complain there arent items in loot for fen (seperate issue perhaps justified) which you knew in advance of the kills werent there.......

Actually just red the post in more detail you feel scammed by efficieny and optimal loot because you didnt read it or understand it.

You could say things in a much nicer way Big Pimping (terrible name btw who wants to be a pimp)

Take posts by players eg Kerham as an opportunity to explain and clarify stuff, not as an opportunity to put someone down

I suspect that the OP is not the illiterate whining retard you have stated.

Go back & redo your post in a way that would explain (nicely) that way he would probably thank you & give you a positive rep instead of the negative one you probably got.

(also notice he has been playing since 2006 while you started in 2018 - maybe he does have a point?)

BP, being the know-it-all dick he is, thinks that he's the expert on this game. probably 'cause of his many years playing it. Oh, wait.

He's a fukn' noob. He's been playing for how many months now?

OP, I'm in the same boat as you. One gets the feeling that MA is just taking us all for granted. 15 year anny? And nothing to show for it but over-priced stuff that you actually have to buy, not loot.

In the beginning, you actually looted PEDS. Then MA got scared and changed loot to crap instead, though we could actually loot items that we could use or sell. Guns, armor, faps, etc. Now we're back to crap loot, except for a very few lucky people.

But remember: the game is "dynamic", so it could all change tomorrow.

Take a break. Try mining for awhile, or even sweating (it gives you a whole different perspective) and save your PEDS for the next Mayhem thingy MA dreams up.

Ranavolana said:

You could say things in a much nicer way Big Pimping (terrible name btw who wants to be a pimp)

Take posts by players eg Kerham as an opportunity to explain and clarify stuff, not as an opportunity to put someone down

I suspect that the OP is not the illiterate whining retard you have stated.

Go back & redo your post in a way that would explain (nicely) that way he would probably thank you & give you a positive rep instead of the negative one you probably got.

(also notice he has been playing since 2006 while you started in 2018 - maybe he does have a point?)

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Naverith said:

BP, being the know-it-all dick he is, thinks that he's the expert on this game. probably 'cause of his many years playing it. Oh, wait.

He's a fukn' noob. He's been playing for how many months now?

OP, I'm in the same boat as you. One gets the feeling that MA is just taking us all for granted. 15 year anny? And nothing to show for it but over-priced stuff that you actually have to buy, not loot.

In the beginning, you actually looted PEDS. Then MA got scared and changed loot to crap instead, though we could actually loot items that we could use or sell. Guns, armor, faps, etc. Now we're back to crap loot, except for a very few lucky people.

But remember: the game is "dynamic", so it could all change tomorrow.

Take a break. Try mining for awhile, or even sweating (it gives you a whole different perspective) and save your PEDS for the next Mayhem thingy MA dreams up.

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My post wasnt meant to be mean i think youre taking it out of context I certianly wasnt calling op illeterate or a retard those are your words.. Perhaps a little blunt but the info in there is all correct and you can educate yourselves by reading it.. Ive been playing as almost as long as OP (and with much more success) but have generally steered clear of forum (due to the low content and snowflake forum warriors like above), recently forced to make account for certain trades so try to contribute a bit as well

. Dont know why OP would be offended im merely stating his expectations were wrong based on a misunderstanding of optimal loot. He also complains about MA removing MU while also posting about looting 54 plat tokes (700ped+ of extra mu) That mu should be the reason he chose to move out of his comfort zone and hunt bigger mobs, and if something else was expected in that sample it was perhaps optimistic. I dont sugar coat stuff especially when people call out MA for no good reason when the flawed thinking/leaks are with themselves but im not trying to be a dick.

We will ignore anything navireth says cus hes just salty about my valuation of his shitty gun and been negrep trading with me for ages.

Ranavolana said:

(also notice he has been playing since 2006 while you started in 2018

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Since when does starting an avatar in EU equate to having a forum account on PCF?
I don't remember being auto signed up to this forum when joining EU, so i doubt BP was either.

If OP has been playing that long, then he should also understand that not all mobs are worth hunting, i went and killed 300 of the level 52 spiders and found out that loot was mainly oils and shrapnel and not worth it for farming Platinum. Of course, i didn't start a "MA is scamming me thread either".

There are better mobs to go hunt around that level that give better MU and are worth hunting more than spiders. Spiders are also over farmed at the moment due to the FEN event, so if they did have anything worth hunting them for, it would be a saturated market by now making it no longer worth anything.

And don't bother asking what mob, as i won't give away any mobs that are actually worth hunting at the moment. As soon I do, people will read it and then go hunting and saturate that maket. Just go shoot a hundred of a mob and see what stuff you get, if you don't like it, move on to another mob.

I do think that MA should have put items in the loot pool just for this event, but no (L) weapons, look what happens when they did that with the ELM weapons....that was just a mess, and thats what we would expect, so having tokens only actually seems like a better idea. They should have balanced the tokens required for all the items in the trader though.

Darth Revan said:

There are better mobs to go hunt around that level that give better MU and are worth hunting more than spiders. Spiders are also over farmed at the moment due to the FEN event, so if they did have anything worth hunting them for, it would be a saturated market by now making it no longer worth anything.

And don't bother asking what mob, as i won't give away any mobs that are actually worth hunting at the moment. As soon I do, people will read it and then go hunting and saturate that maket. Just go shoot a hundred of a mob and see what stuff you get, if you don't like it, move on to another mob.

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http://www.entropialife.com/profile.aspx?P=329024&M=globalList&V=hunting
zombie is beter mob than spiders?

It's a matter of wrong expectations and perspective.

If you would have had in those 3100 spiders over two weeks a lot more MU, some fun items, some UL items... what should others that can do 3k spiders in a day get?

Strongboxes are not fun? Have you considered selling them? PED is fun or at least it can get you something more fun...

Why don't more UL items drop? More L items? Why should they? There's not enough demand. If a complete new series of things would drop, what would happen to the existing items? We can't constantly be throwing recently-top-gear to the trash. We shouldn't make gear obsolete in 2 years since adding to the universe...

And for those complaining no more items for other professions are added... how about getting your asses to level 120 or so in mindforce then ask for more melee and more mindforce stuff? A year ago MA added a knife for level 100 for which only a handful of people had enough skill to use... A year ago MA added a complete new series of Armatrix stuff, weapons, plates, amps...

When feeling down about the lack of fun in your loot window remember two important things:
- DEMAND is what makes planets in this universe spin;
- if you think you should be looting X and Y fun stuff, what would these items be worth if there are like 20-50 people that loot 10-25 more times than you that fun stuff? Will it still be fun? Because it's as fun as demand for it exists....

I hunt with 88.6 efficiency and 3.74 dpp at 110-120 dps and my only expectation from this setup is to loose with 2% less than my previous setup of 63% efficiency, the rest is up to me, to find loot with demand.
Oh and loot composition is just a concept, not a setting in the game... If you have lower cost to kill, in the same 100k ped spent you will have more MU by killing more mobs with same cost...

MA can NEVER make EVERYONE happy but imo they got as close as they ever did with this event judging by the level of activity in the game.

I too think you got scammed by your expectations. It's the worst enemy of this game. And I don't think this will change since there were people that didn't believe in eco until the last day of Loo 1.x and for everything wrong some do, it's MA's fault or the ubers or the arrogant people that try to help on the forums.

i.cromme said:

http://www.entropialife.com/profile.aspx?P=329024&M=globalList&V=hunting
zombie is beter mob than spiders?

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Yes zombies have better average MU than spiders if you get ~top 5 in 15 hours depending on cat ofc

Edit: also, when are people going to stop using EL activity to prove points? It is not a good metric, especially at event times

i.cromme said:

http://www.entropialife.com/profile.aspx?P=329024&M=globalList&V=hunting
zombie is beter mob than spiders?

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Much better.

Ferial said:

Edit: also, when are people going to stop using EL activity to prove points? It is not a good metric, especially at event times

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You can't ignore EL. It's a good tool. We don't have decent metrics to compare stuff but EL can be sometimes a good indicator of one's experience with the game, especially when you have 13700 forum posts, 1200 total loot IN 44 globals in over 10 years. In this case, saying that hunting is gambling , EL shows you're just a moron, and have close to 0 experience to back your your talk. In the above case, EL was used for something else to indicate a possible better creature for MU...

Q: When will people stop being so sensitive to someone mentioning EL?
A: When they will have more hunting experience.


Edit: yes, only having a large amount of globals is not enough to understand the mechanics and be successful in the game, but, it is the first step towards that direction because if you don't have first-hand experience with big hunts, you can't understand and more importantly - you shouldn't be teaching others how this works.

Me as a forum snowflake - love it

"I suspect that the OP is not the illiterate whining retard you have stated" you are right - those were my words, but were also your meaning.

All I meant was - just be nice, you could have got your point across without being a dickhead about it - you will notice others did.

And maybe the OP is not offended - he could just be having a laugh, its me that is the forum warrior snowflake remember

Anyway have fun , I am sure that as you are now posting in the forum 12 years later, you will have much info to share with everyone - even if delivered a bit bluntly

Ranavolana said:

"I suspect that the OP is not the illiterate whining retard you have stated" you are right - those were my words, but were also your meaning.

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Wrong again.

Evey said:

You can't ignore EL. It's a good tool. We don't have decent metrics to compare stuff but EL can be sometimes a good indicator of one's experience with the game, especially when you have 13700 forum posts, 1200 total loot IN 44 globals in over 10 years. In this case, saying that hunting is gambling , EL shows you're just a moron, and have close to 0 experience to back your your talk. In the above case, EL was used for something else to indicate a possible better creature for MU...

Q: When will people stop being so sensitive to someone mentioning EL?
A: When they will have more hunting experience.


Edit: yes, only having a large amount of globals is not enough to understand the mechanics and be successful in the game, but, it is the first step towards that direction because if you don't have first-hand experience with big hunts, you can't understand and more importantly - you shouldn't be teaching others how this works.

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Why do you even bother ?

Last time you pointed these points out , in a even longer and specific post , it was just deleted by a mod .
Safe space is restored and everyone can blame the game for their failures until the next thread like this pops up and the forum warriors eco their stupidity until the next thread pops up that there is not enough markup and why item loose its value .

Ranavolana said:

7
All I meant was - just be nice, you could have got your point across without being a dickhead about it - you will notice others did.7

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Sometimes being harsh helps a little bit more getting the message through. Not to OP because OP will never get it.
BP merely pointed towards the elephant in the room in a realistic manner. I'm gonna talk about the elephant in the room now:
How stupid is to hunt spiders for two weeks and blame it on MA for the lack of fun in the loot window ???

Doing the same mistake over and over is something humans do...
Doing the same thing and expecting different results is also a common mistake...
Doing the same stupid thing two weeks in a row and throwing dirt at MA is more than a repeated mistake, it's just a moronic thing....

Maybe being harsh is the way of getting it through others that this moronic behavior is very isolated and things are actually different with a bit of awareness and thinking. Most people do well but they can't actually share their success stories on the forums because they would get hurt, it's a competition for resources after all...

Evey said:

Q: When will people stop being so sensitive to someone mentioning EL?

Click to expand...

Never

For EL profile it requires 3+ people with tracker to be online on that planet... If, i.e. you play on rocktropia from 7-15 EU time and you would get 100 50PED globals, there's a very good chance for 0 of them appearing EL profile... which makes EL profile quite meaningless...

Edit: and if you do team hunts, those don't show up in EL either...

Eve, you're not wrong with your math. But the thing is, when I met you (first and only time, 2008iirc), things were more exciting ingame. I don't remember patronizing you or the rest of the cadets who at the time were preoccupied with the sweat market and the challenges of argo hunting.

Surely, I like to complain and within limits, I think complaining is good, as a customer feedback.

But this is simply sad. This math of what does 1% longterm is something for, don't know, daikibas or cornundacaudas.

Surely it cannot be an oversupply. But seriously 12tt esi is just sad. I would have expected something bigger, say a 50-70tt one. Something which to really mark is a next level mob, 12tt esi you can pop up from armaxes or troxes or ambu.

What should people who kill 3k spiders in a day should get? Dunno, probably they get same jackshit I looted, just that in 1 day. Which is even more sad, by a magnitude. Yes, if one can kill 3k lvl52 mobs in 1 day while spending circa 1k ped mu, yea I think getting a 50tt esi and a bag of L armours and weps would be in order, why not?

If you don't expect much from your setup, that is your problem of having sad expectations lol. Have you been playing SGA or were you still sweating at the time?

For the record, I started in july 2005. This... math of the 2 ped profit per day I was doing in 2006. Is sad and unfulfilling.

As for tt return, I would expect to be around 94%, biggest payout was 300ish, Mayhem included. So yea, I would be borderline break even and at first payout I would be in profit.

So what, still sad af. I can get this from mobs which I can do naked, without platinum.

I want to see progression of rewards from mobs and I want to see FEN content, wtf is wrong with it?

BigPimping said:

FEN is actually a very forgiving event

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That is where we disagree and what you don't understand or what you don't want to understand.

Mayhem is "an event". FEN is not "an event". Is an UNIQUE celebration. Or that is what it should be.

if you think that's bad... the last two mayhems completely fucked me

Kerham said:

That is where we disagree and what you don't understand or what you don't want to understand.

Mayhem is "an event". FEN is not "an event". Is an UNIQUE celebration. Or that is what it should be.

Click to expand...

Sure they could do more exciting things for casual players, ive said this in numerous posts completly agree. But i just mean in terms of what theyve given us its very hard to make a wrong choice if you have a semi suitable setup and bankroll its very hard to not at least break even pointing your weapon at anything with a higher number than 50 next to it. For me its exciting to just grind an event like that, the profit is all i need. But i think they should add some fen clothing and iutems to loot and sootos, fun bps, etc etc just a seperate issue imo from thread you made which, you knew there was no exciting fen items when you killed the spiders, they only offer plat tokens which you got as well as an esi, just think if you expected more it may have been optimistic. Its already good, in terms of big esi i have over 820k cycled on mostly bigger mobs than spiders with no esi above 18.4 ped.

Kerham said:

Eve,...

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What's wrong with sweating? Nothing
I never did it, however.

I wasn't patronizing you Kerham, why did this become you versus me? I never give any numbers nor said I do better in game than you... and my expectations from my gear are realistic so I don't get disappointed often, even though my gear surprised me a lot.

Lack of excitement? I sold plat for 70ped, then for 60ped, each. That was pretty exciting. Farmed a lot, 30-40 plat a day, boxes were even better MU, super exciting times for me, best year in EU but I admit, 2 ped per day would depress me as well but I would definitely not blame others for that.

I didn't play the game during SGA but I like the FEN format a lot more from what I'm hearing, mainly because everyone profits from it, not just a few super grinders that get more lucky while 80-90% of hunters were just hoping to get something. Now, everyone does get something and they have a good chance of improving their equipment or just increase their bankrolls. Unless ofc people sleep in their shoes and blame it on others...

I did start early, around 2005, but never really played much, I was level 45 in 2015, now at level 126 and yes, I admit it, I was noob once. I still am. And I am having a lot of fun.

Conclusion: No one can force you to change the mob if you don't want to, you can hunt a fucked up mob all you want.

Eh actually we all agree, at least partially )

Yes, ofc getting a bit of + is good. But I had high hopes from this FEN. Due to IRL, I didn't played in TEN and I was yarning for this. In early days at some point I looted a vigi helmet for a gibnib provider. Sure as hell when SGA started wasted some hours shooting every chirpy, gibnib and fuga I could find, maybe I loot something lol. I am missing this... frenzy lol. Surely could be something inbetween...

But anyhow I can write until my fingers drop, still gotta go with the flow.

Gl everyone.

Good thread, if you're new around here and don't know much about the game, you can learn a lot.

Five years ago I would have agreed with Evey 100%. Because it's all true.
Eleven years ago when I joined I did have the same attitude as Kerham... and I have had the same attitude many times much later as well (when I was seriously pissed off).
Today I can't decide with whom to agree. I agree with both. Technically Every is still right, but at the same time, (majority of the) customer is also right. I know, the populist stance is unfair towards the game but if this is what people feel like, it becomes the new dominant reality.

Are you paying attention MA?
If you're smart, you'll think about something to make up for this failure of yours.
Yes, that's sort of unfair. That's life.

Fifth said:

Good thread, if you're new around here and don't know much about the game, you can learn a lot.

Five years ago I would have agreed with Evey 100%. Because it's all true.
Eleven years ago when I joined I did have the same attitude as Kerham... and I have had the same attitude many times much later as well (when I was seriously pissed off).
Today I can't decide with whom to agree. I agree with both. Technically Every is still right, but at the same time, (majority of the) customer is also right. I know, the populist stance is unfair towards the game but if this is what people feel like, it becomes the new dominant reality.

Are you paying attention MA?
If you're smart, you'll think about something to make up for this failure of yours.
Yes, that's sort of unfair. That's life.

Click to expand...

"Halloween Mayhem 2018 Results
This year's Halloween Mayhem event was more popular than ever, breaking several records for daily hunting activity."

This seems to be the reality and not a failure...