Kerham
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"THERE IS NO FUN"
Proceeds to whine about boxes and FEN tokens
There, translated for you in English.
I feel scammed
- Thread starter Kerham
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There, translated for you in English.
narfi
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Lets try to clarify or simplify.
I have read all of this thread and do not fully understand the scope of it
either....Don't worry though, Oleg is a published author and also has trouble being understood as well.
We all come from different cultures, languages, and backgrounds, it makes internet communication especially difficult.
Your OP looked like you were complaining about losses, thus people jumped on the 'you are playing it wrong' bandwagon.
Then you seemed to clarify that was not your complaint, it seems you are complaining about the grind being booring?
Is that the message you are trying to get across?
I am not trying to put words in your mouth if that is not what you intended, just trying to understand what you want to say more clearly.
IF this is what you are trying to say, then I can agree.
I played in an era where I looted more ESIs than I deserved, even a couple full ones. I have looted items including my stingury, a barringer, and a few ul kong guns (forget the name) as well as refiners back when that was a fiasco. Tons of L items and mined a lot of markup. I played in an exciting and fun time in Entropia and I wasn't even there in the early years (started a year or two before vu10, during the 9.x days) but most of my history was made during vu 10 and after.
That was fun and exciting. You could loot fun things, but still a majority of people lost. I was lucky, maybe a little smart, but mostly lucky.
Loot now is booring. I tt L guns all the time, and armor, equivelant gear that would have sold for 120-200% in the old days(not even the old old days, just when I was starting to undestand midlevel play after vu10)
I can mine consistantly 115% ore, but I used to sell that same ore for 200% Even camped it hard once so I could craft with it instead of selling it for that price and clicked it all away while I slept. Ks of ped of 200% ore.... o.0 those days were exciting.
Now I hunt and get mostly shrapnel and oils, when I loot weapons and armor they end up going to the TT, no one needs that stuff its to easy to obtain better or UL.
We wanted exciting drops, and we got them, we were dumped on by them each year by new planets and new events, the competition between calypso and the new planets on who could retain the players with their exciting drops.
MA screwed us all by giving us what we wanted. Some people will blame the planets, some will blame the events, but in the end it was MA who chose and balanced the entire game in the direction the players were requesting. Now everyone has UL weapons and gear, everyone is what in the old days would have been considered 'uber' and at the request of the people it is now 'fair' in that everyone loots the same thing regardless of what or where they go or how efficient or inefficient they are, in a way we deserve what we got :/
Explosives should be crafted from loot/ores.
Buffs should be crafted from loot/ores.
The UL gear destruction chance at tieiring should have remained even though we hated it.
Fewer UL items should have been given out at events and planet introductions.
Hyper efficient 1/10ped tt items should not have dumped by the thousands in events.
The game needs a symbiotically balanced economy between hunting/mining/crafting, that is now nearly impossible.
I reached my dreams, I have an awsome UL blade,(worth 1/4 its glory days) good armor, decent skills, made a name for myself.
But where is the pride in that when everyone else also got as good or better?
In the end, nothing I have accomplished in game distinguishes me from thousands of others playing at the same time, the only name I made for myself was from the social aspects of the game, which have nothing to do with the game, but just my interactions with other people.
The wisest man to ever lived said this,
"Meaningless, Meaningless, everything is meaningless, there is nothing new under the sun.... What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun?.... What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."
Off and on through the years I have felt this way about Entropia. Somehow I have always come back and always rediscovered my joy in a new way, reinventing what I do or who I am. The more we know about the mechanics the harder this becomes. It should be a fantastical world(s) we explore and conquer with our friends. Those of us who have played for years however have had the curtain pulled back, we just see the puppeteer pulling the strings and the numbers rolling by.
This makes it harder to regain that wonder, but its not impossible. I have just returned from a break, and am enjoying my time so far, learning new things, new places, what new drops are good for, exploring mining, hunting new mobs that require different strategies than clicking 'select next target' every 5 seconds as efficiently as possible.
My intent was a short 1 sentence summery of what I thought you were trying to say. Instead you get a long rambling rant of puke.
Enjoy
ps. you do not suffer alone
Kerham
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Thank you, narfi Yes, pretty much you nailed it. But I disagree on the causes. It was their greed, not our requests.
- they made an inflation of skills starting with 3x bonus of SGA; now we have pills and random bonuses for that. So people would jump levels faster and get to use ArMatrix 24375125734596 like Evey was saying earlier, let's skill up and use lvl50000 weapons while turning over 10 medium West European wages per day. It is insane.
- they increased (in line with above) the hp and regen of every popular mob out there, from argonaut to spiders and what not, and introduced even bigger monstruosities like Hussk, hp lvl rofl.
- they increased as such the average turnover per hour
- while initially keeping the dramatic return
- because they tried to take advantage of $ decrease in the IRL crisis and were dreaming of being the next Las Vegas
- which led to the dramatic crash of the market, aprox 2011. Adj fap 40k, look at it now lol.
- which in turn they had to heal and stabilize, under Kim, while saving MA itself
I understand how all comes together. I understand why this or that. Just that now I notice they are back to their old habits. Mining finders with tens of peds per click which destroy all average ores. Huge guns, turnovers and mob hps which destroy opportunities. Because they fundamentally like gambling. But now with an awesome new touch: no MU without investition.
You used to need 100 peds to start hunting and make a ped in this game, when there were no punies. Now we have punies, but those 100 peds are meaningless. If you had the patience to do molisks, you needed k380L and a103 (say Armatrix 10) to generate almost 1k ped MU per week (granted, bit diffcult to sell though), with a budget of, say 1k tops. THAT is my comparison. But it was too easy and they had to destroy this. You used to be able to loot your own armor. Again too easy and had to destroy it. etc
And on top of it all, they had the nerve to come up with this FEN. Just another kind of webshop, moving things away from the core game to bank accounts.
And people are buying platinum to buy FEN weapons which do... what? What "optimal loot"? They give better return with 1%, well f* me, damn amazing.
We will end up playing Entropia on mobile, opening strongboxes, cycling peds and withdrawing, all with a single click, for a generous tax of 10%. With people explaining on the forum how this other app helps to raise your chances with 0,00005% and you should use it if you know what's that Entropia.
Maybe "I feel scammed" reffers to me intending to buy some FEN 40 ul which some "investor" posted for 25k or whatever and changing minds 100 times. And first using a bag of L ones to see what it does. And maybe are my reflections on the utility of the investition, on the trust I have in MindArk, on the underlying forces of economy, on the gaming side of Entropia etc etc
Or maybe I am just stupid and don't know what I am talking, like a colleague complimented me.
Yes, pretty much you nailed it. But I disagree on the causes. It was their greed, not our requests.- they made an inflation of skills starting with 3x bonus of SGA; now we have pills and random bonuses for that. So people would jump levels faster and get to use ArMatrix 24375125734596 like Evey was saying earlier, let's skill up and use lvl50000 weapons while turning over 10 medium West European wages per day. It is insane.
- they increased (in line with above) the hp and regen of every popular mob out there, from argonaut to spiders and what not, and introduced even bigger monstruosities like Hussk, hp lvl rofl.
- they increased as such the average turnover per hour
- while initially keeping the dramatic return
- because they tried to take advantage of $ decrease in the IRL crisis and were dreaming of being the next Las Vegas
- which led to the dramatic crash of the market, aprox 2011. Adj fap 40k, look at it now lol.
- which in turn they had to heal and stabilize, under Kim, while saving MA itself
I understand how all comes together. I understand why this or that. Just that now I notice they are back to their old habits. Mining finders with tens of peds per click which destroy all average ores. Huge guns, turnovers and mob hps which destroy opportunities. Because they fundamentally like gambling. But now with an awesome new touch: no MU without investition.
You used to need 100 peds to start hunting and make a ped in this game, when there were no punies. Now we have punies, but those 100 peds are meaningless. If you had the patience to do molisks, you needed k380L and a103 (say Armatrix 10) to generate almost 1k ped MU per week (granted, bit diffcult to sell though), with a budget of, say 1k tops. THAT is my comparison. But it was too easy and they had to destroy this. You used to be able to loot your own armor. Again too easy and had to destroy it. etc
And on top of it all, they had the nerve to come up with this FEN. Just another kind of webshop, moving things away from the core game to bank accounts.
And people are buying platinum to buy FEN weapons which do... what? What "optimal loot"? They give better return with 1%, well f* me, damn amazing.
We will end up playing Entropia on mobile, opening strongboxes, cycling peds and withdrawing, all with a single click, for a generous tax of 10%. With people explaining on the forum how this other app helps to raise your chances with 0,00005% and you should use it if you know what's that Entropia.
Maybe "I feel scammed" reffers to me intending to buy some FEN 40 ul which some "investor" posted for 25k or whatever and changing minds 100 times. And first using a bag of L ones to see what it does. And maybe are my reflections on the utility of the investition, on the trust I have in MindArk, on the underlying forces of economy, on the gaming side of Entropia etc etc
Or maybe I am just stupid and don't know what I am talking, like a colleague complimented me.
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Fifth
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Good post narfi! Also, too many good points in other posts to count them all.
You learn to appreciate opposing viewpoints over the years because it allows you to do magic.
What magic you may ask? The magic of rising above the problem, on the new level entirely.
So we have set the stage here.
AT THE BEGINNING we wanted new and exciting stuff in loot. And behold, there was the new and exciting stuff. It was shiny, it was rare and it was worth shitloads of PED! Then we got some more of it, and even more and more... we ended up with everything becoming worthless. One logical cycle completed.
We complained about too much volatility, too big globals 'n' HoFs. There's too few of em, we said, the ubers take em all and the casual player has no chance! Too much casino, we said, Tone it down, make it more equal... and behold, it came into being.
From there we immediately proceeded to complain this new system does not give you anything worth mentioning unless you play it on an industrial scale, 100s of hours nonstop. Another cycle completed.
So now we have tried it all, seen it all both ways, and if we know anything about the game, we know there's nothing left to try. Which also means there's no point in complaining, accept it for what it is and work within the system while competing against the other players.
Which is fine by me. I'm lvl 100, I have 300 HP with buffs and 55 evade, I can just roam around and do pretty much anything solo with reasonably decent return rates.
Which is why I'm not complaining. Much.
I mean, RCE mechanics is all fine and dandy. It works reasonably well if you're persistent. Meaning, if you're willing to take it as a second job and do it as a job. It's absolutely perfect if you're a robot, have no job and you can do it nonstop for months on end 24/7. It can work miracles for you on the industrial scale!
But for those of us who are humans, we have a limited attention span, and we tend to get bored eventually... actually we tend to get bored pretty easily. The sheer uniqueness of Entropia offsets this to a degree, yes, but still, there is a problem, you see?
There's no way anything can be changed within the current framework of the game without making it worse.
Everything is already optimized to a perfect balance, and every attempt to improve it further is nothing but self-deception, at best.
So don't change the framework, there's nothing wrong with it. Instead, start investing on a new layer on top of it.
Ever heard about fun factor? Could you maybe change the rules at certain areas? I mean, like dungeons in other, stupid games? Like the stupid BatSim dungeon in this game?
It's just--you don't actually need a dungeon to do any of it. I never understood the game designers addiction to the holes in the ground. You don't need caves to do fun stuff. Just change the rules, any rules, up to and including the rules of the virtual physics--and a whole new little game pops out. Lot of fun, if done right.
There's no hurry, baby steps, see if it works on a small scale, then go ahead. Baby steps, MA, but to the right direction.
You learn to appreciate opposing viewpoints over the years because it allows you to do magic.
What magic you may ask? The magic of rising above the problem, on the new level entirely.
So we have set the stage here.
AT THE BEGINNING we wanted new and exciting stuff in loot. And behold, there was the new and exciting stuff. It was shiny, it was rare and it was worth shitloads of PED! Then we got some more of it, and even more and more... we ended up with everything becoming worthless. One logical cycle completed.
We complained about too much volatility, too big globals 'n' HoFs. There's too few of em, we said, the ubers take em all and the casual player has no chance! Too much casino, we said, Tone it down, make it more equal... and behold, it came into being.
From there we immediately proceeded to complain this new system does not give you anything worth mentioning unless you play it on an industrial scale, 100s of hours nonstop. Another cycle completed.
So now we have tried it all, seen it all both ways, and if we know anything about the game, we know there's nothing left to try. Which also means there's no point in complaining, accept it for what it is and work within the system while competing against the other players.
Which is fine by me. I'm lvl 100, I have 300 HP with buffs and 55 evade, I can just roam around and do pretty much anything solo with reasonably decent return rates.
Which is why I'm not complaining. Much.
I mean, RCE mechanics is all fine and dandy. It works reasonably well if you're persistent. Meaning, if you're willing to take it as a second job and do it as a job. It's absolutely perfect if you're a robot, have no job and you can do it nonstop for months on end 24/7. It can work miracles for you on the industrial scale!
But for those of us who are humans, we have a limited attention span, and we tend to get bored eventually... actually we tend to get bored pretty easily. The sheer uniqueness of Entropia offsets this to a degree, yes, but still, there is a problem, you see?
There's no way anything can be changed within the current framework of the game without making it worse.
Everything is already optimized to a perfect balance, and every attempt to improve it further is nothing but self-deception, at best.
So don't change the framework, there's nothing wrong with it. Instead, start investing on a new layer on top of it.
Ever heard about fun factor? Could you maybe change the rules at certain areas? I mean, like dungeons in other, stupid games? Like the stupid BatSim dungeon in this game?
It's just--you don't actually need a dungeon to do any of it. I never understood the game designers addiction to the holes in the ground. You don't need caves to do fun stuff. Just change the rules, any rules, up to and including the rules of the virtual physics--and a whole new little game pops out. Lot of fun, if done right.
There's no hurry, baby steps, see if it works on a small scale, then go ahead. Baby steps, MA, but to the right direction.
Evey
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Don't buy the FEN 40 UL. If it's so hard to decide, don't go for it. I got a LP 70 FEN UL and it took me less than a second to figure out if I want it or not+. There's no magic to it, just some numbers that mean something to me. Run your numbers one last time and decide where to go.
FEN, EU, they are a product you should stop consuming if it brings you so much struggle, so much frustration. It's a product that evolved over the course of many years and I agree with Narfi, we are here today because MA listened to the community
- no more ammo in loot, just MU.
- something for crafters and miners => no more L stuff in loot or barely any, they are now crafted with all sorts of mats.
- no more noobs looting angel from molisk (angel in shop now);
- no more ubers looting mod faps and uber weapons - they buy them from the community now if they want the mod fap or super weapons. Or they win them though many events.
Seriously, I find this system awesome, the community getting payed for the markup of top gear, but that's me enjoying a product I consume. When I will stop enjoying it, I will stop consuming it. At least for a while...
Since we all have different goals, we all want different things from this product, with so much information being out there, the only scam is within you. You could've gotten the information in time, you could've stopped before you got so disappointed that you feel cheated and you're about to cheat yourself even further if you get that LR because it does something different than what you think it does... or maybe I got it wrong and you already got it, hence the thread... but everyhting I said still stands. Adjust your expectations to the reality and more important to what you're determined to put on the line, time, money, interest, because there are plenty that hit next target with 0 fucks given and they enjoy it or least for the moment.
GL
FEN, EU, they are a product you should stop consuming if it brings you so much struggle, so much frustration. It's a product that evolved over the course of many years and I agree with Narfi, we are here today because MA listened to the community
- no more ammo in loot, just MU.
- something for crafters and miners => no more L stuff in loot or barely any, they are now crafted with all sorts of mats.
- no more noobs looting angel from molisk (angel in shop now);
- no more ubers looting mod faps and uber weapons - they buy them from the community now if they want the mod fap or super weapons. Or they win them though many events.
Seriously, I find this system awesome, the community getting payed for the markup of top gear, but that's me enjoying a product I consume. When I will stop enjoying it, I will stop consuming it. At least for a while...
Since we all have different goals, we all want different things from this product, with so much information being out there, the only scam is within you. You could've gotten the information in time, you could've stopped before you got so disappointed that you feel cheated and you're about to cheat yourself even further if you get that LR because it does something different than what you think it does... or maybe I got it wrong and you already got it, hence the thread... but everyhting I said still stands. Adjust your expectations to the reality and more important to what you're determined to put on the line, time, money, interest, because there are plenty that hit next target with 0 fucks given and they enjoy it or least for the moment.
GL
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Kerham
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Haha, you made me giggle with this.
Good points, thank you for your input, Evey, Fifth and Narfi
P.S.: if any mod sees this, you can close the thread, thank you
D
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hi
morac is very silent here. know why
Complaining A LOT here (if you long time hunter) WILL get you 20-50k looter. Mortac will be back in about 3-4 weeks after 50% returns after his 23k . here is I say kerbels = GO ON A HOLIDAY 6-9 MONTHS AND USE YOUR UNCLE DAVE OR UNCLE JACK ACCOUNT (IE PLAY HIS ACCOUNT). It is 100% legal. Do NOT 'alt', just simply play your Uncles account (real life info, bank info etc as your Uncle has....). Easy. Then come back in 6-9 months and hunt big. 3 others do this but others for whatever reason keep hunting on their 'own' accounts......
morac is very silent here. know why
Complaining A LOT here (if you long time hunter) WILL get you 20-50k looter. Mortac will be back in about 3-4 weeks after 50% returns after his 23k . here is I say kerbels = GO ON A HOLIDAY 6-9 MONTHS AND USE YOUR UNCLE DAVE OR UNCLE JACK ACCOUNT (IE PLAY HIS ACCOUNT). It is 100% legal. Do NOT 'alt', just simply play your Uncles account (real life info, bank info etc as your Uncle has....). Easy. Then come back in 6-9 months and hunt big. 3 others do this but others for whatever reason keep hunting on their 'own' accounts......
narfi
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Evey
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morac is very silent here. know why
Complaining A LOT here (if you long time hunter) WILL get you 20-50k looter. Mortac will be back in about 3-4 weeks after 50% returns after his 23k . here is I say kerbels = GO ON A HOLIDAY 6-9 MONTHS AND USE YOUR UNCLE DAVE OR UNCLE JACK ACCOUNT (IE PLAY HIS ACCOUNT). It is 100% legal. Do NOT 'alt', just simply play your Uncles account (real life info, bank info etc as your Uncle has....). Easy. Then come back in 6-9 months and hunt big. 3 others do this but others for whatever reason keep hunting on their 'own' accounts......
Morfoc is happy that MA answered his support tickets and he got busy
He will eventually be back here with the same story, how soon it really depends how much of his loot goes into TT, but I seen him on Caly auctioning some of it. Or maybe it was at auction to buy another Perseus hmmmm
morfoc
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morac is very silent here. know why
Complaining A LOT here (if you long time hunter) WILL get you 20-50k looter. Mortac will be back in about 3-4 weeks after 50% returns after his 23k . here is I say kerbels = GO ON A HOLIDAY 6-9 MONTHS AND USE YOUR UNCLE DAVE OR UNCLE JACK ACCOUNT (IE PLAY HIS ACCOUNT). It is 100% legal. Do NOT 'alt', just simply play your Uncles account (real life info, bank info etc as your Uncle has....). Easy. Then come back in 6-9 months and hunt big. 3 others do this but others for whatever reason keep hunting on their 'own' accounts......
Morfoc is happy that MA answered his support tickets and he got busy
He will eventually be back here with the same story, how soon it really depends how much of his loot goes into TT, but I seen him on Caly auctioning some of it. Or maybe it was at auction to buy another Perseus hmmmm
MA did not give me a positive feedback or return on the current year, but I understand that you need the opinion of legendary morfoc
and treenuuberbibi good attempt to not know me
I do not play the Fen, I already said that the items do not interest me at the present time so I'm nothing to say
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yeeck
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I read every line in those long posts and (my God) i learned A LOT about game
(some nice history facts also)
Pls, keep arguing
word of wisdom
the lesser you know about them, the better you will play the game ya
I posting a little late I know for this thread but it a good post IMO.
This may have been mentioned as I did not read all the posts but I have one question that I think I need to ask you.
Why, by that I mean:
What good would it do to take your suggestions about the items ? Do you really think you can beat MA. The have a formula that's makes them money just like Las Vegas and you can't beat it in the long run. If you hit a very good item and could get all your money back and quit maybe it would work but only if you quit when you are ahead. Its just the way it works. My pal used to say "Vegas has a paddle that will fit anyone butt" and I think MA has the same size paddle.
This may have been mentioned as I did not read all the posts but I have one question that I think I need to ask you.
Why, by that I mean:
What good would it do to take your suggestions about the items ? Do you really think you can beat MA. The have a formula that's makes them money just like Las Vegas and you can't beat it in the long run. If you hit a very good item and could get all your money back and quit maybe it would work but only if you quit when you are ahead. Its just the way it works. My pal used to say "Vegas has a paddle that will fit anyone butt" and I think MA has the same size paddle.
Kristoliquid
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Don't we all?
Atrax
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....
No need to link myself. Ten seconds at google, there were tons of rants. Let's hope they've remembered.
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OK folks I DID NOT mean to necro an ancient rant thread - I was just trying to get a quote from it I'm sorry